What is YOUR fix for the fake tank/fake healer issue?

Gray_howling_parrot

I have seen hundreds of these threads just simply complaining about the issue of a "fake" tank or "fake" healer whether that be a new player who hasnt slotted a taunt or isnt healing properly OR an experienced/semi-experienced player who is a DPS and just wanting a quick queue. So many complaints and not really any solutions. While there is the "kick from group" feature, this doesn't solve the problem. Especially because you need all 3 other members of the group including you to vote to kick - so if the fake tank/healer are in the group with one other person, you're essentially SOL. Some people like myself really don't mind it, but I ABSOLUTELY see how it's annoying. I main a tank character, play healers, and play dps. I've got over 5000 hours in the game and have had my fair share of these players.

Especially for random normals when I'm on a lowbie toon, I love it. It's a quick XP grind. BUT - it does absolutely ruin the questing experience, learning of mechanics and overall dungeon feel for many new players (and experienced even). Since ESO doesn't have hard-set roles (I.e. dragonknights are tanks, wardens are healers ONLY), how would you go about mediating this issue? This also ties into the issue of a normal trial activity finder being added because ZOS wouldn't be able to reliably be able to implement this without hard set roles. A fake tank in nFG1 is great but a fake tank in nCR+3 is gunna hurt.

My personal solution that i'd be interested in is different queues for different group compositions in normal dungeons:
1 tank, 3 dps
1 healer, 3 dps
1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps
4 dps

Make all of these viable options and give an option to exclude the others. If you're a dps and absolutely want a tank and healer, uncheck these other options. This would drastically speed up the queue for DPS as well; however, this absolutely could not be implemented for veteran dungeon queues.

Another solution is to make the random veteran dungeon queue much more enticing - give 25 transmutes and double the XP as a reward. This will not only push experienced players into doing random veteran dungeons but will drive the inexperienced players to improve. Thoughts?

Araneae6537

For myself, I only queue for roles that I can fulfill. In dungeons I give a pass if the person in the fake role asks the rest of the group if we’re okay with them running as a DPS. But if someone isn’t doing their job — or for that matter doing something else that ruins the experience for others — I first request what is needed because everyone makes mistakes, may not realize, etc., anyway, give them a chance. But if even then they don’t even try to be a team player, either vote kick or leave.

Definitely one of the things I love about ESO is that roles aren’t baked into classes and you can make hybrid heals/DPS etc. if desired.

I know this doesn’t address the issue in the way OP proposes but I fear that any built in enforcement will hurt more than it will help. And people can slot the greatest skills and still not contribute so it can really only be validated by the group. Maybe extra incentive for vet mode would be good though — normal mode should be for new players or characters or anyone who wants a more casual experience and not for those grinding out transmutes IMHO.

GloatingSwine

I play a tank so I don't meet fake tanks, and if you play a tank you've probably farmed Black Drake Villa for one of your sets and that means you get used to not having a healer.

DigiAngel

I queue as tank or healer...so honestly, I don't really need either in the normal randoms.

SPR_of_HA_community

For normals we are happy if we have any tank and we are OK with Fakes, because it is faster for us to get to dunguan if some one even is a fake tank (wait time for my DD is less).
We do not have problems to pass it if it is fake tank or real.
So it is not some thing, that need fix for us.

The same time it is very problematick for real tanks go nRandons because party always run forward ignoring tanks existence. So it is more problematick for real tanks go nRandoms, than have fake tank in group.

Do not see such problems in vets for now

cyclonus11

Roll a real tank and queue as one

Shayu

People get super sensitive about this issue, that's for sure. I don't play fake tank, but I did farm Tormentor just so I could taunt as a Werewolf and therefor farm normal dungeons a little faster and with a little less brainpower in the wee hours of the night.

Unfortunately, I've still lost count of the number of entitled brats who've started shrieking at me anyway for being a fake tank, being selfish, "taking advantage" of them, not respecting the party, cutting in line, and so on. Even had one moron quit and then start seething at me through PMs about how it doesn't matter that I can taunt and provide a group buff because I'm not a real tank. All of this on normal dungeons mind you; on runs where the party never wipes once. It's to the point that I've had to start putting a disclaimer at the start of every dungeon I run that tank on.

On the other hand, I also run a min-maxed werewolf DPS build which uses a Sword and Shield for the extra armor and resource glyph while transformed (if you use a poison, sword and board with a tri-glyph actually has more total stats than any other weapon for WW). The other day I took that build into Vet Gold Tower and had a tank quit on the spot because he saw the shield on my back. We then proceeded to clear vWGT with two DPS and healer btw.

Firstmep

Find friends or a guild and run with them.
The group finder is going to match you with random people.
There is no written rule on how fast ppl should run a dungeon, and some ppl will go as fast as humanly possible.
This is a non issue in my book.

dmnqwk

Well, I think a carrot and stick approach would be best.

In normal dungeons, the person who queued as a tank gets automatic aggro from the boss so it's easier for them to be the tank.

They also take 100% more damage from and deal 100% less damage to bosses they have not taunted in the last 30 seconds. Make it a nice shiny aura so it helps teach tanks about taunting in this game!

Dawnblade

Too many whinny players.

If someone cannot or will not fulfill their role to the point it causes issues for the group AND the group is in agreement, kick them.

Otherwise, who cares?

Lady_Galadhiel

......
My fix would be if they just would implement a dungeon queue where you could que up with how many players as you would want (up to the max of 4 of course).
If someone wishes to run a random normal alone to get their cristals, then they should be able to do it same as if someone wishes to run it with one more person for example.
If someone wishes to go in 4 then fine, but by now we should have more queue options, if someone wants to learn mechanics of dungeons then random normals aren't the place for it anyway.


It would be better to get the speedies out of the way if they can just queue up alone to get their cristals in a few minutes, therefor less fake tanks and healers would be around I belive.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

My personal fix is that I play a hybrid tank/DPS build and queue as a tank when I am doing normal dungeons. The build is designed to Taunt, Chain, and give about 8k of group pen. It is a rare case indeed when it pulls less than 50% of group DPS. If I need it, I also slot a group heal to keep the potatoes off the floor.

When I am doing vet dungeons, I play with friends.

You wont fix the issue. People are selfish, and many are going to queue with no thought given to the role they queue for. Its unfortunate, but it is what it is.

-ZOS is not going to remove roles form GF. It would drastically increase failure rate of their dungeons. Even on normal, there are DLCs that have plenty of one-shots and mechanics that need followed.

-Vote kicks rarely pass, I dont bother anymore unless someone is being overtly toxic.

-I also manage my own expectations. Groupfinder dungeons are not the place for RP/questing and looting every container. Expect a fast, sloppy, and uncoordinated run, 9 times out of 10.

The correct response to this thread is the same as the response to the 10,000 that came before it. If you dont like groupfinder, form your own group.

AvalonRanger

There're only 2 way.

1, Use your pure tank character.
2, Build non glass solo style DPS(35K~40K).

No other option. Recently I give up to solve fake role problem.
ESO is casual game anyway.

Ksariyu

Two things: One, that Party Finder thread that was just floating around? Yeah, do that. Give players better access to each other and you can give them more control over the types of people they play with. Any automated restrictions they add will be exploited/avoided somehow by "that" part of the community. That's how it goes everywhere.

Two, give healers and tanks ways to have more independent impact in a pug without having to swap a bunch of gear and skills. This I think would encourage tanks and healers who maybe only play with premades to try the finder again, as there will be less of a handicap to them if their DPS are under-performing.

Sarannah

This would require multiple steps:
1: Gated bosses: Bosses can't be skipped, and require atleast three players to stand inside a major circle before it to engage in the fight. (only three, so one player can't hold a party hostage)
2: Add automated taunt to those who queue as tank role, or as someone above said let bosses automatically go for the tank.
3: When queueing as tank role your damage is reduced by 90%, and you take 25% more damage from attacks. When queueing as healer role, your damage is reduced by 40%. When queuing as DPS, your DPS is increased by 15%.
4: Set minimum requirements to queue for roles: Tank needs atleast a taunt slotted, 25k resistances, and 25k health(normal, veteran = taunt, max res, and 30k health). Healer role requires atleast 2 heals slotted.
5: Remove rewards if roles are not fulfilled. Tanks do not get the dungeon completion rewards if they do not atleast have had 60% aggro overall on all the dungeon's bosses combined(excluding certain bosses due to mechanics/and skipped bosses). Healers are more tricky, as some groups do not require healers. Not sure how to go about that.
6: Let veteran dungeons grant 15 crystals, hm 20.

Some players might complain about build diversity and/or build freedom, but when playing with others there are certain expectations from a specific role. Setting those expectations as a low requirement, isn't wrong. Especially now with the armory, as players can switch role easier.

PS: For a smoother overall dungeon/trial experience, the game should remind the player of the boss's attacks before the boss is engaged. Also makes it easier to remember all mechanics.
PPS: Fake roles are an issue in normals as well, as that is the place for new players to learn how their role works/functions. Saying we do not need them there will only cause wave effects of issues, flowing to more parts of the game. Like bad DPS, bad tanks in veterans, and bad healers in veterans, etc. Not to mention giving new players a terrible dungeon experience.

N00BxV1

I'd chop off their hair and yell "shame" at them while they walk the streets.

El_Borracho

I think giving out 25 transmutes in the random vet would bring the problem of fake tanks in the random normal to the vet.

3 solutions that aren't "join a guild":
1. Be a real tank
2. If you are a DD that wants a real tank, run a random vet
3. Assume the tank is fake in a random normal, be happy when it is a real tank or a strong DD that makes up for not tanking

Fake tanks in normals will never go away. I've come to accept that. Lets do what we can to keep them there and not spread it into vet content

loaganb16_ESO

cyclonus11 wrote: »

Roll a real tank and queue as one

I did that. Two times to be exact. But the people dont even let me tank... like letting me charge into the mobs first or something. So they often die and blame me. Whatever. I can insta queueueueue.
My tanks do around 10k DPS single target. So I usually do at least 10-15% group DPS, if I have a good team. Even more these days of course.

Frogmother

to queque as a specific role, you need three skills from that role in your bar. Once the dungon started, you cant change the skills until its finished or you left.

not perfect, but could be one step in the right direction.

not applicable for raids.

TheGreatBlackBear

Just vote to kick them them. Whether or not you "need" a tank or healer for the piece of content the fact remains that the fake is deciding to cut the line. Just like in real life you don't tolerate people randomly skipping the queue in the grocery, or food joint or whatever. The queue times for daily random isn't even that high anyway.

Riptide

Remove transmutes from random dungeons altogether. Add them to the global loot pool. Done and done.

OrkWizard

Remove roles from rnd's, add some text to the rnd menu that advises you to take self heals and a taunt. Instant queues for everyone ez.

redspecter23

My fix is to have zero expectations from the queue. If I want anything more than that, I form a premade.

An actual group finder similar to what you can find in many other games could bridge the gap between premades and full queue groups, but we don't have that here for... reasons unknown. So that would be my first suggestion.

Add a real group finder that allows you to place a LFG posting that the entire game can see on one menu. Giving players the proper tools to form groups of like minded players should help by getting those players using the tool into appropriate groups a bit easier. Then the queue can be used as a secondary tool or to fill in a last spot instead of it being the primary source of grouping.

Without adding numerous restrictions, the queue will always fail to place like minded players together. Once you start adding filters and restrictions to the queue, you are pretty much just adding a traditional group finder system at that point.

stevenyaub16_ESO

A party finder would be the solution to what you want.

I personally only queue random vet so I rarely get this fake role issue people keep talking about.

Destyran

Normally have 3 and we queue tank and two dds but one as healer because we’d rather 3 dds as healers a useless

BlueRaven

Let tanks be able to quest and not take forever to burn down a mob?

“But they can just put on a two handed weapon and leather gear to quest!”

Well if it’s easier to do things as a dps, why ever tank?

That tanks are just hobbled when doing anything not group focused is directly linked to their rarity. As long as the game insists on making tanks not fun to play, tanks will be rare.

Freelancer_ESO

Depends on the amount of resources I have available.

If I've got unlimited resources, I'd implement a complete overhaul of dungeons to even out the difficulty, make tanking/healing more popular, to somewhat temper the effectiveness of DPS, and enhance the companion AI to fill the gaps. I can do a long type out version if anyone is really interested

If I've got limited resources, I'd increase the rewards for roles when a shortage exists in the queue and put out messaging to say that you should queue as the proper role and add report options for people that do not do so with the potential penalty of bans, removal of transmutes, and a roll back of collections items. Then, you look through the reports and your data and pick out the worst offenders that should know better and action them. Ideally, you'll hit one or more people each pass that use reddit that will complain about it which will scare many of the people that fake role out of doing it.

Tsar_Gekkou

If the dps queue was as fast as the healer queue and the average dps wasn't terrible, this wouldn't be happening. That's why I always fake heal random normals, because half the time I get matched up with 2 light attack spammers and I'm the only one doing damage. But people who fake queue in vet content should fall off a cliff.

SalamanNZ

Scalebreaker peak is a great example of exposing fake tanks. Unless you have really good dps you won't get up to and past the first boss. Obviously I'm talking about vet mode. But if you make the lead up and first boss really hard eg they hit hard so you need 40k hp and taunts are needed

Kingsindarkness

I just avoid pugs and not because of the Fake whatever.

This is where the game is going it will become less and less of a group experience even in end game

Socialization will die by those who participate in it.

danno8

My solution would be no requirement for tanks or healers for non- DLC content in normal mode.