What is YOUR fix for the fake tank/fake healer issue?

maximusrex45

Adding more queue types also means longer queue waits, which is likely why ZOS hasn't done that.

I think you should not be matched with players on your ignore list, that is pretty standard in a lot of MMOs, and that combined with vote kicks should be enough to solve the problem over time.

KingExecration

This issue is caused by three things, transmutes, xp, and undaunted. The last can be ignored since it’s so easy to get undaunted now, but till there’s more avenues for transmutes and xp people will blast through normal dungeons asap so their 150 scroll won’t be wasted. I don’t blame them since I’m the same.

kargen27

I think a player should be given a choice when they queue. They can chose standard group composition or non-standard. Standard would be 2 DPS 1 heals and one tank. Filling a standard group would take priority. That means if there is a standard group waiting on a tank and a tank arrives in queue that tank goes to the standard group. People queueing for non-standard could still find themselves in a standard group. Non-standard just means they don't care what kind of group they get.

If there are four players all queued for non-standard and none of them fill the role a standard group is waiting on then they get put together and off they go. Would probably most the time be four DPS but it could be any combination of the three roles. Would be no reason to run a fake role if your DPS can get a faster queue selecting the non-standard group.

Kidgangster101

They need to buff all the trash adds to do more damage. This would force tanks/healers to be present. It also makes tank/healers wear gear that benefits them rather than wearing gear to increase DPS of others.

Along with that change they need to make it so when you que as a tank all of your moves generate enmitiy (mob agro). This makes it so the bugged trash adds hit hard and if your a fake tank will probably die fast.

The real problem with this game is it is very very DPS driven. It needs to get rid of that in order to actually change.

jaws343

I'd go very simple.

Cap damage done to 5k DPS for players listed as tanks and healers. However, only players using in group finder.

This would ensure that DPS would be useless queuing in the roles to skip the queue and would have minimal impact on tanks or healers.

By limiting to group finder only, you still allow premade groups to build their group their own way and enter dungeons manually, and it keeps trials uneffected.

Amottica

Jaustink wrote: »

My personal solution that i'd be interested in is different queues for different group compositions in normal dungeons:
1 tank, 3 dps
1 healer, 3 dps
1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps
4 dps

This would not change a thing as any player can still queue as a tank. The first option would end up being 4 dps when the fake tank got into the group.

If someone does not want to run with the trinity they should be forming their own group. That includes the fake tank and fake healers.

My solution, and it works in preventing getting a fake tank, fake healer, and low DPS is forming my own group or getting into a guild group. The runs are much faster, smoother, and overall much more enjoyable than most random GF groups could hope to be.

Sockermannen

discussed this with a friend not too long ago.

Increase boss damage, increase it to the point where tanking it in today’s DD setup isnt possible for any extended periods of time.
If the boss is taunted it’s damage will be reduced to today’s numbers.
Basically… taunt? damage will be manageable for a proper fake tank (someone with taunt and self heals to tank easier dungeons) no taunt? boss will smear that fake tank across the floor like a crayon.

it will not 100% fix fake tanking but it will become significantly harder for bad fake tanks to get away with it without fulfilling even the most basic of tanking tasks. A proper fake tank (as described above) should still be able to handle the boss like they can today.

francesinhalover

Queues take forever so idc, if we die they better slot heals and spam them.

francesinhalover

SalamanNZ wrote: »

Scalebreaker peak is a great example of exposing fake tanks. Unless you have really good dps you won't get up to and past the first boss. Obviously I'm talking about vet mode. But if you make the lead up and first boss really hard eg they hit hard so you need 40k hp and taunts are needed

Theres fake tanks on vet?

ForzaRammer

Fix the fake dd issue and play a support?

Amottica

Sockermannen wrote: »

discussed this with a friend not too long ago.

Increase boss damage, increase it to the point where tanking it in today’s DD setup isnt possible for any extended periods of time.
If the boss is taunted it’s damage will be reduced to today’s numbers.
Basically… taunt? damage will be manageable for a proper fake tank (someone with taunt and self heals to tank easier dungeons) no taunt? boss will smear that fake tank across the floor like a crayon.

it will not 100% fix fake tanking but it will become significantly harder for bad fake tanks to get away with it without fulfilling even the most basic of tanking tasks. A proper fake tank (as described above) should still be able to handle the boss like they can today.

Not a bad idea but . . . .

Good chance it will create a bug. I understand we used to be able to change a skill or gear item while in combat as long as we had not taken damage or used a skill for a short period of time. Zenimax closed that loophole and in the same patch the in-combat bug that can occur when there are no NPCs or players around to cause combat to happen and it lasts for a long time.

There is only two things that can be done. One is to require a taunt to be unlocked or even require it to be on the bar. Ofc, it would not require them to use the taunt which is the real issue. The other, short of forming one's own group, is to start vote kicking the fake tank and have a backup speck to handle the tank role. Even without the backup tank role, letting the fake tank stay in the group is akin to accepting the situation and perpetuating it.

svendf

I believe I did see a comment in the flow about healers. Something like "they are useless". Imagine if all those useless healers just stopped helping in harder content ? That will never happen, I know, but just for the fun of it

It´s very common in the chats I have access to, see healers respont to "guildmates" for a spot in the group, getting told " sorry we don´t need a healer, we are just running vXYX dungeon, we don´t need a healer".

This is, what ESO have become, in this point in time and will continnue to be. There are some good advice in the topic, but they won´t help. And! there are some other advice from player´s, who just want to keep momentum.

So! Whar would help ? Only a total redesign of roles and group content will make a change. Add to that a heavy focus on including "all roles ".

There a two path, you can walk.

1. Accept, what´s going on and hope getting lucky from time to time.
2. Pull the breaks, get out of the car and leave it and focus on a new one.

I went the last option after six years in this game and it isn´t that hard. Now im just doing crafting untill my bag is empty.

Now I have all most everything I have been looking for in ESO. ESO is a good game, with some design issues, which "will" exclude, some player´s, who fancy specific roles to play.

Good hunting

barney2525

You could have these options:

Tank
Fake Tank
Healer
Fake Healer
DPS
Can't punch out of a paper bag

svendf

Tank ? Have done it. Leveled three untill I got tired of getting outrunned
Fake tank ? Out of the question I see it as griefing
Healer ? Done it in vet content dungeons, trials. Want a break and do normal ? Not working it´s a mess there
Fake Healer ? Nope see it as griefing
DD ? Did that the first four years and got tired of it
Can´t punch out of a paper bag ? Don´t know the meaning of it. More easy to pull the breaks

WhiteCoatSyndrome

I normally run a healer, so I can guarantee that role won’t be faked in my group.

Heartrage

Play tank with good health restoration. Boom! You don’t have to care about fake healers or tanks.

Memory_In_Motion

frankly, if your paired with a companion, you both should enter the dungeon in your assigned roles. So if you have a tank mirri for example, and she's active, then when you queue up she should get the tank slot. likewise if you have healer mirri, she should do the healing for the group. seems reasonable to me.

Paralyse

Run a good solo build using either Pale Order (if no healer) or Oakensoul (if no tank)
Normal 4 man base game dungeons and some normal 4 man DLC dungeons can be completed without a tank or healer without much trouble.

The only time not having a tank or healer has completely hindered me has been if a boss has a one-shot mechanic that only tanks can survive, or if the other DPS are performing so poorly that things take forever to kill.

Otherwise, join guilds, make friends, and complete your random daily content with them, and never have to worry about it.

Auldwulfe

Very simple, you have a lobby that pops up when a group forms - you can discuss and talk there about things, and you can see each other, so you see what is equipped (if not equipped with sword and shield, you can't use the thrust taunt)

The run doesn't start until everyone hits the ready button .... that way, you can ASK what taunt or skill they have, and plan on using.
Yes, they can lie..... but it's a touch harder to do so.... as some skills are based on equipment.
Once everyone is satisfied, you all hit ready, and off you go.... lets you discuss tactics real quick, and even playstyles .....

Auldwulfe

FrancisCrawford

Any fix starts with changing the random dungeon system. There is no such thing as a group that will have a fun challenge in both Fungal Grotto 1 and March of Sacrifices. Not on normal, not on vet. Divide things up more finely than that.

Galiferno

jaws343 wrote: »

I'd go very simple.

Cap damage done to 5k DPS for players listed as tanks and healers. However, only players using in group finder.

This would ensure that DPS would be useless queuing in the roles to skip the queue and would have minimal impact on tanks or healers.

By limiting to group finder only, you still allow premade groups to build their group their own way and enter dungeons manually, and it keeps trials uneffected.

Healing and DPS are not mutually exclusive in ESO, especially in dungeons. If 4 friends want to run randoms together with a fake/hybrid healer for XP/transmutes/whatever, why should they be limited like this?

FrancisCrawford

Beyond that, I'd gate roles for harder dungeons by achievements that demonstrated getting through them in easier ones.

Yes, that can be gamed. But it's at least slightly better than nothing. A nontraditional tank who tanked successfully on some character some time is more likely to be a good teammate than one who never ever did.

El_Borracho

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

They need to buff all the trash adds to do more damage. This would force tanks/healers to be present. It also makes tank/healers wear gear that benefits them rather than wearing gear to increase DPS of others.

As someone who primarily tanks and DDs, I am 100% opposed to this. As a tank, its already a gamble with some of the groups these days. I've been in a group that couldn't handle the adds outside of White Gold Tower on normal. As a DD, this makes me immediately think of Kyne's Aegis, where the adds are worse than the bosses. No thank you.

If anything, this would punish actual tanks more than hurt fake ones

TylerDurden

What skills should a real tank be using?

El_Borracho

TylerDurden wrote: »

What skills should a real tank be using?

Super Duper Basic: One taunt and the ability to stay alive while keeping the taunt without constantly kiting the boss

Necessary Tank Skills: Pierce Armor, Inner Rage, a pull like Unrelenting Grip, Silver Leash, or Beckoning Armor, and a CC.

Additional skills preferred for group: Heroic Slash, Elemental Blockade, Aggressive Warhorn

And no, the ability to also put out 80K damage is not necessary.

jaws343

Galiferno wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

I'd go very simple.

Cap damage done to 5k DPS for players listed as tanks and healers. However, only players using in group finder.

This would ensure that DPS would be useless queuing in the roles to skip the queue and would have minimal impact on tanks or healers.

By limiting to group finder only, you still allow premade groups to build their group their own way and enter dungeons manually, and it keeps trials uneffected.

Healing and DPS are not mutually exclusive in ESO, especially in dungeons. If 4 friends want to run randoms together with a fake/hybrid healer for XP/transmutes/whatever, why should they be limited like this?

You did read the part where I said it would be limited to group finder right? If you build your own full group, it wouldn't apply. The moment you pull in some random player from the queue, you should be locked in the role and given the debuff.

Krayl

I have friends.

M0ntie

Here is a proposed solution.
Make a random queue option for dps that they are ok to have a dps in support roles. This lets those happy with fake healers/tanks queue with like minded players. For people queuing as a tank check they have a taunt equipped and for healers at least 1 group heal.

Paralyse

Another option would be to remove all bonus rewards from random dungeons. This would encourage players to make new friends to adventure throughout Tamriel with and also help drive both the creation of and membership in guilds designed to help players complete group content. (partially serious, partially sarcastic.)

Many of my strongest social bonds in other MMO's without "group finder" systems came from meeting new players to complete tougher group content with. This has the added bonus that the leader can choose who comes. If they are a dps who is ok with a 4 dps run for a 4 man, they can invite 3 other dps. If they want the traditional tank/healer/2 dps, they can do that, or even 4 tanks or 4 healers. Since they are no longer beholden to a random queue, there is no more waiting, as they can simply schedule a time when all of them will be online to run things.

Amazingly enough, players can already do all of those things in ESO, without even needing ZOS to make any changes at all.

Ishtarknows

Sarannah wrote: »

This would require multiple steps:
1: Gated bosses: Bosses can't be skipped, and require atleast three players to stand inside a major circle before it to engage in the fight. (only three, so one player can't hold a party hostage)
2: Add automated taunt to those who queue as tank role, or as someone above said let bosses automatically go for the tank.
3: When queueing as tank role your damage is reduced by 90%, and you take 25% more damage from attacks. When queueing as healer role, your damage is reduced by 40%. When queuing as DPS, your DPS is increased by 15%.
4: Set minimum requirements to queue for roles: Tank needs atleast a taunt slotted, 25k resistances, and 25k health(normal, veteran = taunt, max res, and 30k health). Healer role requires atleast 2 heals slotted.
5: Remove rewards if roles are not fulfilled. Tanks do not get the dungeon completion rewards if they do not atleast have had 60% aggro overall on all the dungeon's bosses combined(excluding certain bosses due to mechanics/and skipped bosses). Healers are more tricky, as some groups do not require healers. Not sure how to go about that.
6: Let veteran dungeons grant 15 crystals, hm 20.

Some players might complain about build diversity and/or build freedom, but when playing with others there are certain expectations from a specific role. Setting those expectations as a low requirement, isn't wrong. Especially now with the armory, as players can switch role easier.

PS: For a smoother overall dungeon/trial experience, the game should remind the player of the boss's attacks before the boss is engaged. Also makes it easier to remember all mechanics.
PPS: Fake roles are an issue in normals as well, as that is the place for new players to learn how their role works/functions. Saying we do not need them there will only cause wave effects of issues, flowing to more parts of the game. Like bad DPS, bad tanks in veterans, and bad healers in veterans, etc. Not to mention giving new players a terrible dungeon experience.

Ooo I like the idea of minimum requirements to queue as a particular role.

Can we get DDs wearing light or medium armour only, no swords and boards or resto staffs and with a minimum number of damage skills on their bars please?