What is YOUR fix for the fake tank/fake healer issue?

AvalonRanger · September 2022

TylerDurden wrote: »

What skills should a real tank be using?

1, "Puncture" or (morphed puncture) 1H and 1shield taunt skill slotted. Ice staff and inner rage will be OK.
But 1H and 1shield is the best.(If you have extra slot and DK class, Unrelenting Grip chain skill
will be useful. But not necessary.)

2, Some damage shield skill slotted (any class skill will be OK)

3, All gold quality heavy armor. (4 piece should be reinforced trait)

4, Must have high resistance without mythic gear.(over 2.7K~)

5, Must have high amount of health (over 40K~).

6, Must have high amount of health recovery. (1.7K~2K)

7, Must slotted defensive Champion Point node, if you're veteran.

8, Eat health and stamina boosting food.

If your character have all those aspect, you're very good tank.

If your character doesn't have taunt skill and not tough guy, and go tank role queue.
Then, some player will kick you instantly. It's totally your fault.

lardvader · September 2022

I queue as DD but with my tank....

Dr_Con · September 2022

AvalonRanger wrote: »

TylerDurden wrote: »

What skills should a real tank be using?

1, "Puncture" or (morphed puncture) 1H and 1shield taunt skill slotted. Ice staff and inner rage will be OK.
But 1H and 1shield is the best.(If you have extra slot and DK class, Unrelenting Grip chain skill
will be useful. But not necessary.)

2, Some damage shield skill slotted (any class skill will be OK)

3, All gold quality heavy armor. (4 piece should be reinforced trait)

4, Must have high resistance without mythic gear.(over 2.7K~)

5, Must have high amount of health (over 40K~).

6, Must have high amount of health recovery. (1.7K~2K)

7, Must slotted defensive Champion Point node, if you're veteran.

8, Eat health and stamina boosting food.

If your character have all those aspect, you're very good tank.

If your character doesn't have taunt skill and not tough guy, and go tank role queue.
Then, some player will kick you instantly. It's totally your fault.

I think this is a bit much but it's on the right track. But people have their own ideas on how to tank. Someone who knows mechanics very well can still be an effective tank at 31k hp, or you have people who don't like the way you play and that's why they want to kick you.

this example comes from a matchmade pug group

Case in point being that I wanted to speed through a dungeon- as a properly specced tank- and my healer didn't like the way I was clearing.

I prefer, when possible, to speed to the bosses, killing the trash when we get there, especially on repetitive content like Banished Cells, Fungal Grotto, Elden Hollow, etc. and I'll tell my group that is the tactic before we begin.

One person may not like this, but two other people do. In this example that happened to me, healer dies to trash because they wanted to clear as we go and were stubborn or didn't read chat and didn't communicate at all, then they voted to kick me, when that fails they'll leave and the DPS will laugh about it, then i'll switch to my twilight tormentor and heal the dps in my group while asking them to slot a self-heal just in case and we'll still complete the dungeon.

I'm generally more forgiving of new players, even when the matchmaking bugs out and I for some reason have to do Vet Unhallowed Grave with some 200-300 cp players despite not even queueing for the dungeon (this has happened, and me being queued for fungal grotto normal happened recently), we won't do the optional bosses but I will explain mechanics to the newer players and we will still get through them if I take the time to explain the mechanics. In these cases, it's important to remember to not judge a book by its cover, as I have a friend from console who knows how to play the game and is low CP and can still mop the floor with people in PVP who have more than 10 times his CP, but remember 200 cp is still 200 cp and sometimes we need to take it slow, and helping to carry others, as a tank, who are new to the content so they can get their Kjalnar mask is sometimes an achievement in itself.

CBreeze71 · September 2022

I like the idea of queuing with options to request a specific party make-up.

JamuThatsWho · September 2022

Jaustink wrote: »

I have seen hundreds of these threads just simply complaining about the issue of a "fake" tank or "fake" healer whether that be a new player who hasnt slotted a taunt or isnt healing properly OR an experienced/semi-experienced player who is a DPS and just wanting a quick queue. So many complaints and not really any solutions. While there is the "kick from group" feature, this doesn't solve the problem. Especially because you need all 3 other members of the group including you to vote to kick - so if the fake tank/healer are in the group with one other person, you're essentially SOL. Some people like myself really don't mind it, but I ABSOLUTELY see how it's annoying. I main a tank character, play healers, and play dps. I've got over 5000 hours in the game and have had my fair share of these players.

Especially for random normals when I'm on a lowbie toon, I love it. It's a quick XP grind. BUT - it does absolutely ruin the questing experience, learning of mechanics and overall dungeon feel for many new players (and experienced even). Since ESO doesn't have hard-set roles (I.e. dragonknights are tanks, wardens are healers ONLY), how would you go about mediating this issue? This also ties into the issue of a normal trial activity finder being added because ZOS wouldn't be able to reliably be able to implement this without hard set roles. A fake tank in nFG1 is great but a fake tank in nCR+3 is gunna hurt.

My personal solution that i'd be interested in is different queues for different group compositions in normal dungeons:
1 tank, 3 dps
1 healer, 3 dps
1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps
4 dps

Make all of these viable options and give an option to exclude the others. If you're a dps and absolutely want a tank and healer, uncheck these other options. This would drastically speed up the queue for DPS as well; however, this absolutely could not be implemented for veteran dungeon queues.

Another solution is to make the random veteran dungeon queue much more enticing - give 25 transmutes and double the XP as a reward. This will not only push experienced players into doing random veteran dungeons but will drive the inexperienced players to improve. Thoughts?

So here's my idea.

Each role gets a set of stat modifiers attached to it.

If you pick DPS, you might get +5% spell/weapon damage, -5% health.

Tank, +5% healing received, -5% crit.

Healer, +5% magicka, -5% penetration.

The way you encourage people to pick the right role. They'll get a boost to their primary stats, while the minus won't affect them unless they're trying to fake their role.

Edit: this would only affect PUGs in the Activity Finder. You'd still be free to form your own group without these modifiers.

Ragnarok0130 · September 2022

svendf wrote: »

Tank ? Have done it. Leveled three untill I got tired of getting outrunned

@svendf This is an important thing to point out for working with tanks. I'm normally a healer but made a tank after experiencing a particularly bad fake tank in a dungeon run and one thing I noticed is that since sprint is stamina based, if I sprinted to keep up with the Speedy Gonzaleses in my group I had no stamina left to block or use abilities needed to tank when I got to the boss. Maybe that is because I was a new baby tank still learning but it felt like sprinting through the dungeon was setting one's tank up for failure.

Dr_Con · September 2022

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

svendf wrote: »

Tank ? Have done it. Leveled three untill I got tired of getting outrunned

@svendf This is an important thing to point out for working with tanks. I'm normally a healer but made a tank after experiencing a particularly bad fake tank in a dungeon run and one thing I noticed is that since sprint is stamina based, if I sprinted to keep up with the Speedy Gonzaleses in my group I had no stamina left to block or use abilities needed to tank when I got to the boss. Maybe that is because I was a new baby tank still learning but it felt like sprinting through the dungeon was setting one's tank up for failure.

I run ice staff and s&b partly for this reason, focusing the ice staff usually for clearing trash... as well as dark deal on sorc. Due to these reasons I'm usually the one leading the charge as a tank.

Kalik_Gold · September 2022

Play with friends, guildies.

nb_rich · September 2022

Jaustink wrote: »

I have seen hundreds of these threads just simply complaining about the issue of a "fake" tank or "fake" healer whether that be a new player who hasnt slotted a taunt or isnt healing properly OR an experienced/semi-experienced player who is a DPS and just wanting a quick queue. So many complaints and not really any solutions. While there is the "kick from group" feature, this doesn't solve the problem. Especially because you need all 3 other members of the group including you to vote to kick - so if the fake tank/healer are in the group with one other person, you're essentially SOL. Some people like myself really don't mind it, but I ABSOLUTELY see how it's annoying. I main a tank character, play healers, and play dps. I've got over 5000 hours in the game and have had my fair share of these players.

Especially for random normals when I'm on a lowbie toon, I love it. It's a quick XP grind. BUT - it does absolutely ruin the questing experience, learning of mechanics and overall dungeon feel for many new players (and experienced even). Since ESO doesn't have hard-set roles (I.e. dragonknights are tanks, wardens are healers ONLY), how would you go about mediating this issue? This also ties into the issue of a normal trial activity finder being added because ZOS wouldn't be able to reliably be able to implement this without hard set roles. A fake tank in nFG1 is great but a fake tank in nCR+3 is gunna hurt.

My personal solution that i'd be interested in is different queues for different group compositions in normal dungeons:
1 tank, 3 dps
1 healer, 3 dps
1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps
4 dps

Make all of these viable options and give an option to exclude the others. If you're a dps and absolutely want a tank and healer, uncheck these other options. This would drastically speed up the queue for DPS as well; however, this absolutely could not be implemented for veteran dungeon queues.

Another solution is to make the random veteran dungeon queue much more enticing - give 25 transmutes and double the XP as a reward. This will not only push experienced players into doing random veteran dungeons but will drive the inexperienced players to improve. Thoughts?

Good idea but the only problem with your solution is no one will queue up for the healer one since you really only need dps and at most a tank. Normal dungeons you don’t need a healer and most can be solo’d. The traditional 1 tank, 1 healer, 2 dps set up would probably end up the least used queue.

There is also a lack of healers and tanks in the community for dungeons. Majority of people don’t make healers or tanks to do dungeons, they are made for trials and pvp.

The only fix to this problem is to make the dungeons more difficult, all of them both normal and vet. Look at spindleclutch 1 for example lol its so easy. This way we actually need a tank and healer at all times if the dungeons are made more difficult and they will feel more rewarding when completing them.

Until that happens people like myself will continue to queue up as a healer even though im dps. No one has ever complained about it or voted to kick me because my dps is high enough to solo most dungeons anyways and people are more happy they get to play then to wait in a queue. Before I run through it I usually ask if anyone is doing the quest or collecting any gear so at least they can get that done.

To all my fellow fake healer/tank people out there if you do decide to queue up make sure you bring good dps if not stay queue as a dps. Id also recommend equipping a skill with major breach like razor caltrops. This is a must if you queue as a fake tank.

Dr_Con · September 2022

after reading over some of the responses, I now agree that classes should receive a boon and debuffs depending on what roles they pick. This issue is systemic to players who queue pub near exclusively.

I do think that DPS classes should do more DPS, in part to compensate for the changes. I also think that tank classes should be able to tank more damage, to add survivability in fights to make them more drawn out when they may otherwise wipe.

When a character has a certain amount of CP and is doing a harder dungeon, literally no one in the history of ever would complain if they received minor aegis/slayer as a buff.

Healers healing for more but doing less damage can help counteract the radiating regen nerfs as well- perhaps they can work with tanks to offer more debuffs. I'll be honest i almost never rely on a healer as a tank, almost all my heals are self-heal.

I think a cool solution to see would be to see an alcohol or drink buff specifically active in group dungeons (not vet trials as they may need different type of balance and have higher risk/reward) that stack on top of food become active depending on the role you are slotted for (kind of like how Colovian War Tortes give extra alliance war exp), that give either a nominal amount of damage increase/reduction or the minor/major slayer&aegis buffs. I like that someone suggested less crit damage by people who queued as tanks, I support that change- as a tank my job is to increase other peoples and keep the boss and certain adds off the dps and healer, it is not to outparse the DPS- but rather to improve their parses. I would go further and say that tanks should get a buff to their stamina regeneration as it came up as a concern that tanks are often the ones in the back due to stam issues with running.

ZOS, could of course add debuffs to people who aggresses unaggressed mobs to de-incentivize DPS running ahead. This would be an unpopular change if implemented by 90% of the community, but it is likely some idea that can be explored.

It is also not gamebreaking to add a food buff that would provide a type of increase to healing amount for healers while in these dungeons (other than major/minor mending)- perhaps an increase in spell/weapon damage to heals of a certain amount. People would alter their builds, sure, but is that a bad thing? You can also add new food ingredient items that drop in dungeons and even recipe books to accomplish this, and I doubt many people would complain. This aspect, I feel, should be explored as an option. ZOS need only look at the amount of food items players have, and how cheap they are, to see that they could really do this.

This would help with the issue of fake tanking my incentivizing people to play their roles, by enabling them to do it better.

Additionally, I am adding this to the community concerns list as it's a problem I ignore because I queue as a properly fitted/statted tank and don't run into it often (unless i'm on a healer or dps alt, in which case it takes longer to get matched). I do tend to carry groups when the CP is a bit low. I probably have above a 95% completion rate for matchmade dungeons, but that reflects my personal experience. It is still a community concern.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/616100/community-concerns-list

dmnqwk · September 2022

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

svendf wrote: »

Tank ? Have done it. Leveled three untill I got tired of getting outrunned

@svendf This is an important thing to point out for working with tanks. I'm normally a healer but made a tank after experiencing a particularly bad fake tank in a dungeon run and one thing I noticed is that since sprint is stamina based, if I sprinted to keep up with the Speedy Gonzaleses in my group I had no stamina left to block or use abilities needed to tank when I got to the boss. Maybe that is because I was a new baby tank still learning but it felt like sprinting through the dungeon was setting one's tank up for failure.

When you make a tank to level, use these sets:

1. Adept Rider
2. Fortified Brass

When you use those two sets together you'll be around 30k+ resistances and moving super fast to keep up with anyone and anything - which makes tanking easier (being first is a big win for tanking).
If someone is even faster than you are (which is possible) then run up, puncture the main things and... keep going!
Necromancers, Nightblades, Sorcerers and Wardens have strong Max Health healing
Dragonknights and Templars get strong shields for cheap instead

If levelling tanks wore adept rider and fortified brass they'd be capable of tanking dlc content at 49 wearing level 30 sets still (the resistances would still be 30k+ with major resolve up wearing fortified brass) and they'd feel strong because of it.

Kidgangster101 · September 2022

El_Borracho wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

They need to buff all the trash adds to do more damage. This would force tanks/healers to be present. It also makes tank/healers wear gear that benefits them rather than wearing gear to increase DPS of others.

As someone who primarily tanks and DDs, I am 100% opposed to this. As a tank, its already a gamble with some of the groups these days. I've been in a group that couldn't handle the adds outside of White Gold Tower on normal. As a DD, this makes me immediately think of Kyne's Aegis, where the adds are worse than the bosses. No thank you.

If anything, this would punish actual tanks more than hurt fake ones

I don't get how tho....... What is a tank exactly in ESO? You worry more about hitting your cc and hoping your DPS kill the adds......

Would it be nice to you know be an actual tank where your moves made enemies hit you? It's just a wild though in my mind that roles should do what they say.

edward_frigidhands · September 2022

My fix is joining a guild.

This should be your fix as well rather than policing what builds people run in randoms in a game that is designed with the idea 'play as you want " in mind.

Why aren't you commenting on the very prominent fake dps issue we have?

jaws343 · September 2022

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

My fix is joining a guild.

This should be your fix as well rather than policing what builds people run in randoms in a game that is designed with the idea 'play as you want " in mind.

Why aren't you commenting on the very prominent fake dps issue we have?

That isn't what play as you want means. It never has meant that.

Play as you want means that you can play any content you want in the game. It doesn't speak to the how of doing that. Or whether the way you choose to play the content you want is frowned upon by the rest of the community. As long as you can still tank or dps or heal a dungeon, putting limitations on the requirements to do those things isn't limiting the play how you want of the game.

Edited to add that there are no fake DPS. None. There are bad DPS, and there are also bad tanks and bad healers.

Very explicitly, the fake tank and fake healer conversation has ALWAYS been around players who intentionally sign up for a role they have ZERO intention of even trying to perform within the group finder in order to very specifically skip the DPS queue. It's not a tank just being very bad at their role. There are zero tanks or healers jumping into the DPS queue of the dungeon finder to wait longer to get a dungeon and then be redundant as a second tank or healer in the group. So no, there are no fake DPS in the sense of the way this has been commonly defined by the community in regards to the dungeon finder.

Androrix · September 2022

danno8 wrote: »

My solution would be no requirement for tanks or healers for non- DLC content in normal mode.

Yup...seems like a no brainer. Especially as the fake tanks and fake healers largely justify themselves by saying you don't need a tank or healer, which is true.

orgin_stadia · September 2022

Remove roles from normal.

p00tx · September 2022

My suggestion is to lower your expectations, drastically. You cannot police other players outside of abusing player reporting functions (which players love to do), and you cannot control other people, but you can definitely change your own outlook and expectations. Some players are intentionally misqueueing, and some are just completely clueless as to how this game works and are just exploring different game functions like dungeon queues, and may not understand what their chosen role entails. I always try to assume the best intentions from someone before automatically jumping to "They did this on purpose!" and it makes dungeon queueing much less stressful and much more relaxing. I just make sure to check with the group before charging ahead with a quick "Speed run?" in text chat, and if no one says no, or they just ignore me, I charge ahead. If I see someone lagging behind at quest checkpoints, I'll wait for them before running to the next pack.

This problem is twofold, and can be solved with just a little bit of communication, consideration and open-minded patience on both sides of the argument.

Galiferno · September 2022

jaws343 wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

I'd go very simple.

Cap damage done to 5k DPS for players listed as tanks and healers. However, only players using in group finder.

This would ensure that DPS would be useless queuing in the roles to skip the queue and would have minimal impact on tanks or healers.

By limiting to group finder only, you still allow premade groups to build their group their own way and enter dungeons manually, and it keeps trials uneffected.

Healing and DPS are not mutually exclusive in ESO, especially in dungeons. If 4 friends want to run randoms together with a fake/hybrid healer for XP/transmutes/whatever, why should they be limited like this?

You did read the part where I said it would be limited to group finder right? If you build your own full group, it wouldn't apply. The moment you pull in some random player from the queue, you should be locked in the role and given the debuff.

Yes, and you need to queue using the group finder to get the random dungeon bonuses. You get nothing if you "enter dungeons manually."

Vevvev · September 2022

Make the content hard enough to necessitate them even on normal.

Throw in like... 1-2 enemies that can one shot you the tank has to taunt like it is in veteran, and maybe a low level AoE damage some bosses put out to kind of push the healer to try a little harder.

Nothing so outrageous it'd blur the line between normal and veteran, but enough of a subtle push to make the people take their roles seriously. Once it becomes clear that you can't just queue for the wrong role and succeed the fake queuers looking for a quick grab will begin to fade.

Maybe since it's on normal difficulty make the 1 shot NPCs super painfully obvious that they're dangerous so they're like bright beacons of "Taunt this, please." that'll change color or effects once they are taunted.

ghastley · September 2022

The problems are: incentives for players to queue as fakes, and lack of real tanks and healers because they aren’t viable builds for overland, so everyone builds DD’s.

You need to fix both, and removing the transmute carrot is the first priority. The armory has provided part of the solution for the other half, as you can have two builds for one character, but you still don’t learn how to tank or heal while you use the other setup. Companions could have been part of it, with some help in making them the DD to your tank or healer, but instead it turns out they work better doing the support role while you tune your damage dealing.

wolfie1.0. · September 2022

My solution: put the ability to recieve transmute stones in other daily quest activities. Everything from IC reward boxes to crafting writs. All of them drop between 1 to 5 stones.

Second, remove the dungeon finder from the game. Only premade groups can queue for dungeons.

Hasenpfote · September 2022

You dont need a full tank/healer in normal dungeons/normal DLC dungeons.
You dont need a full tank/healer in vet dungeons.

You need DPS in every dungeons and most DPS are fake DPS. Thats the true issue.

If i run a dungeon as a full tank, i prefer to have a fake healer with 40k dps than 2 fake dps with 5k dps each. As full tank i can take care of myself and wont need heal in most cases.

Fake DPS are the true issue in the game.

Rowjoh · September 2022

This really isn't a problem.

All you have to do is simply organise a group via your guilds (assuming you're in decent ones).

It's very very easy and if you're a Damage dealer it's so much quicker than group-finder anyway!

AlterBlika · September 2022

AvalonRanger wrote: »

TylerDurden wrote: »

What skills should a real tank be using?

1, "Puncture" or (morphed puncture) 1H and 1shield taunt skill slotted. Ice staff and inner rage will be OK.
But 1H and 1shield is the best.(If you have extra slot and DK class, Unrelenting Grip chain skill
will be useful. But not necessary.)

2, Some damage shield skill slotted (any class skill will be OK)

3, All gold quality heavy armor. (4 piece should be reinforced trait)

4, Must have high resistance without mythic gear.(over 2.7K~)

5, Must have high amount of health (over 40K~).

6, Must have high amount of health recovery. (1.7K~2K)

7, Must slotted defensive Champion Point node, if you're veteran.

8, Eat health and stamina boosting food.

If your character have all those aspect, you're very good tank.

If your character doesn't have taunt skill and not tough guy, and go tank role queue.
Then, some player will kick you instantly. It's totally your fault.

You're missing the main point of tank - buffing and debuffing. If you just absorb damage while not doing anything to support your damage dealers, then you're not a "very good" tank.

AlterBlika · September 2022

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

Second, remove the dungeon finder from the game. Only premade groups can queue for dungeons.

We don't have a proper group finder in the game, yet you want to remove the only thing that's close to it. Think about solo and other players who don't like chatting in the chat.

AlterBlika · September 2022

ghastley wrote: »

The problems are: incentives for players to queue as fakes, and lack of real tanks and healers because they aren’t viable builds for overland, so everyone builds DD’s.

That's not the problem, actually. I only do group activities in the game. I have a tank build, and sometimes I just don't find it engaging enough to play, unlike dd. The only challenge in tanking for me is keeping buffs/debuffs up, but even so, it's not nearly as exciting as playing a dd.
When my guildmates make a group for something, I almost always go as a dd, because tanking is boring. If we don't have a tank (or the tank goes offline or sth), then I switch.

I sometimes pug as a tank in vDLC, because with random teammates (fake dds mostly) it's kind of fun sometimes, but in vet vanilla, where you can just stand and not die, - not so much.

Hasenpfote · September 2022

AvalonRanger wrote: »

TylerDurden wrote: »

What skills should a real tank be using?

1, "Puncture" or (morphed puncture) 1H and 1shield taunt skill slotted. Ice staff and inner rage will be OK.
But 1H and 1shield is the best.(If you have extra slot and DK class, Unrelenting Grip chain skill
will be useful. But not necessary.)

2, Some damage shield skill slotted (any class skill will be OK)

3, All gold quality heavy armor. (4 piece should be reinforced trait)

4, Must have high resistance without mythic gear.(over 2.7K~)

5, Must have high amount of health (over 40K~).

6, Must have high amount of health recovery. (1.7K~2K)

7, Must slotted defensive Champion Point node, if you're veteran.

8, Eat health and stamina boosting food.

If your character have all those aspect, you're very good tank.

If your character doesn't have taunt skill and not tough guy, and go tank role queue.
Then, some player will kick you instantly. It's totally your fault.

A very good tank does not care about his HP value. He knows how to avoid damage.

200k HP means nothing, if the tank does not know how to block the killing blow.
Even a 20k HP tank can be a good tank.

kurbbie_s · September 2022

how about quit caring in normal dungeons. They can be solod by one person. Dont stand in red, literally move. You dont need a tank ESO. For anything other than vet DLC and vet trials. What needs to be done is people like you guys who get into a dungeon and try to kick the person because they dont have a s&b.

Do the content and move on. If you want a specific group,make a pre made. I dont got time to wait in a que for an hour when the normal random dungeon can be ended in 10 minutes.

the1andonlyskwex · September 2022

francesinhalover wrote: »

SalamanNZ wrote: »

Scalebreaker peak is a great example of exposing fake tanks. Unless you have really good dps you won't get up to and past the first boss. Obviously I'm talking about vet mode. But if you make the lead up and first boss really hard eg they hit hard so you need 40k hp and taunts are needed

Theres fake tanks on vet?

I can't speak for all servers, but there certainly are a lot on PS4-NA. Probably close to half of my random vet runs (as healer) include a "tank" with less than 30k health who either doesn't taunt or kites bosses out of GBAoE.

kurbbie_s · September 2022

the1andonlyskwex wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

SalamanNZ wrote: »

Scalebreaker peak is a great example of exposing fake tanks. Unless you have really good dps you won't get up to and past the first boss. Obviously I'm talking about vet mode. But if you make the lead up and first boss really hard eg they hit hard so you need 40k hp and taunts are needed

Theres fake tanks on vet?

I can't speak for all servers, but there certainly are a lot on PS4-NA. Probably close to half of my random vet runs (as healer) include a "tank" with less than 30k health who either doesn't taunt or kites bosses out of GBAoE.

if youre completing the dungeon, whats the problem?