You think the player response to U35 on PC was bad, just wait until it hits consoles...

Eternalscourge1

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Thing is, perceived zone population is not a real indicator -- as they only create a new instance of that zone, when the current is full ..... so, it can look the same, and have half the population.

What I am looking at is guild populations, and log ins.
I am in 4 guilds, but one doesn't count --- it's my personal guild, and made of people I know in real life .... we made it to have our own chat channel that can be a little bigger than a group one

Of the other 3 -- one has seen about a 23% decline in members, and our applications for new members has seriously declined. The second went from 331 members, 7 weeks ago, to 26 members as of yesterday.
The third, where I am an officer, has, for the first time, purged people that haven't logged in within 30 or more days.
And lastly, guilds I applied to, 6 months ago, that had told me they were full, are now contacting me, as they are recruiting.
Coupled with the increase in guild recruiting in chat.... and yes, it has gone up..... people are leaving.

Will the game just collapse... no.... I play Age of Conan, a game that has, repeatedly, "died off, because the devs don't maintain it".... but it lingers on.
I like the lore, and some of the gameplay, so I log in once a week for a couple of hours to run around a bit..... but it is getting pretty scarce as to player population. Most of the remaining players are those that don't have systems that can handle heavier games like ESO..... or have invested so much, they refuse to leave.

I am here because I love Tamriel --- I have been an Elder Scrolls fan since Elder Scrolls 1, Arena was a new release game.
I run the Gog Cut Daggerfall with all the mods .... which is free, by the way.

But, from a business point of view, ZOS has lost the NPS score they need... in business, we have NPS, or Net Promoter Score --- it's a value of how pleased the customers are, and how much they are doing free advertising for you. Right now, FFXIV has a very positive NPS ... people are talking it up all over in various forums. You even see it here in a forum that is specific to another game... in generic forums, you hear a LOT more about it, as there is less chance of snipping.

A bad NPS isn't instant death... but it is not a healthy sign. Verizon has a bad NPS, but is big enough, and controls enough, that it stays in place....although more and more of their profits are due to allowing smaller networks to ride on their infrastructure.

Right now, ZOS has ESO .... and the Elder Scrolls Series has enough core fanbase that they will tolerate a LOT to stay with this franchise.... but they are going to have competition..... and unless they rise to deal with that.... they will stagnate, and then start to slowly drop off, until they resemble Age of Conan.... played by old grognards that still like the lore, or are attached to characters they put a lot of work into, and muddle through the junk for that.

With Julian LeFay, the creator of Arena and Daggerfall, creating a new game called Wayward Realms..... I can see ZOS taking a solid hit, there... unless they improve their NPS prior, they are going to get hurt with that one. The early releases are already incredible ---

ZOS is in a delicate position... they have to do work on the game, and it is going to need a complete overhaul. I can see where this patch could have been a great first step in that direction, but they are not great with communication, and the playerbase isn't forgiving, due to past errors. Second, we have several small groups of very vocal, and very opinionated players (I hate using the term toxic... it's not only overused, but the meaning has been lost). Some of these players are very competitive, and they work to "win" the game .... nothing wrong with that at all .... but not everyone is in that boat. They are the meta chasers.... the guys that sit and calculate how to get just one more point of damage out of their master tuned character... and we have the people that are casuals that log in to look at the artwork on rock faces, and wander around just to explore and see the world. (I am more in that camp... but I do understand the others, too).

Then we have the majority of players in the middle .... they enjoy the world, enjoy some of the group content, but aren't trying to find every possible meta point that they can combine.

And each group has a very vocal element within it, that gets on the forums and argues for their view .... again, nothing wrong with that, but the noise does drown out the average person and their opinion, and most are not as extreme, but they are getting tired of the constant change, and the having to redesign characters every few months. And soon, as they are not heard, and not happy, they will first be apathetic ... we are already seeing a LOT of that... and then, once something comes that excites them, they will be gone .... and the game will remain for those that insist that nothing is wrong, etc. It will linger.... slowly fading, as the funds dry up, and there is no money to upgrade servers, or pay developers to create new content..... and eventually, it will shut down. Unless, of course, those same players that argue that "nothing is wrong" can afford to support the whole game, themselves ......

Auldwulfe

Haha I bet you 4 years from now ESO is still running. The only thing that will get shut down is the PC version

Ghaleb

Eternalscourge1 wrote: »

Haha I bet you 4 years from now ESO is still running. The only thing that will get shut down is the PC version

We had that topic literally yesterday in another thread. check the post I refer to in my reply (can’t link to the right one on mobile currently):

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7710382#Comment_7710382

Dissect that post, provide your statistics and sources and we can chat.

Auldwulfe

Eternalscourge1 wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Thing is, perceived zone population is not a real indicator -- as they only create a new instance of that zone, when the current is full ..... so, it can look the same, and have half the population.

What I am looking at is guild populations, and log ins.
I am in 4 guilds, but one doesn't count --- it's my personal guild, and made of people I know in real life .... we made it to have our own chat channel that can be a little bigger than a group one

Of the other 3 -- one has seen about a 23% decline in members, and our applications for new members has seriously declined. The second went from 331 members, 7 weeks ago, to 26 members as of yesterday.
The third, where I am an officer, has, for the first time, purged people that haven't logged in within 30 or more days.
And lastly, guilds I applied to, 6 months ago, that had told me they were full, are now contacting me, as they are recruiting.
Coupled with the increase in guild recruiting in chat.... and yes, it has gone up..... people are leaving.

Will the game just collapse... no.... I play Age of Conan, a game that has, repeatedly, "died off, because the devs don't maintain it".... but it lingers on.
I like the lore, and some of the gameplay, so I log in once a week for a couple of hours to run around a bit..... but it is getting pretty scarce as to player population. Most of the remaining players are those that don't have systems that can handle heavier games like ESO..... or have invested so much, they refuse to leave.

I am here because I love Tamriel --- I have been an Elder Scrolls fan since Elder Scrolls 1, Arena was a new release game.
I run the Gog Cut Daggerfall with all the mods .... which is free, by the way.

But, from a business point of view, ZOS has lost the NPS score they need... in business, we have NPS, or Net Promoter Score --- it's a value of how pleased the customers are, and how much they are doing free advertising for you. Right now, FFXIV has a very positive NPS ... people are talking it up all over in various forums. You even see it here in a forum that is specific to another game... in generic forums, you hear a LOT more about it, as there is less chance of snipping.

A bad NPS isn't instant death... but it is not a healthy sign. Verizon has a bad NPS, but is big enough, and controls enough, that it stays in place....although more and more of their profits are due to allowing smaller networks to ride on their infrastructure.

Right now, ZOS has ESO .... and the Elder Scrolls Series has enough core fanbase that they will tolerate a LOT to stay with this franchise.... but they are going to have competition..... and unless they rise to deal with that.... they will stagnate, and then start to slowly drop off, until they resemble Age of Conan.... played by old grognards that still like the lore, or are attached to characters they put a lot of work into, and muddle through the junk for that.

With Julian LeFay, the creator of Arena and Daggerfall, creating a new game called Wayward Realms..... I can see ZOS taking a solid hit, there... unless they improve their NPS prior, they are going to get hurt with that one. The early releases are already incredible ---

ZOS is in a delicate position... they have to do work on the game, and it is going to need a complete overhaul. I can see where this patch could have been a great first step in that direction, but they are not great with communication, and the playerbase isn't forgiving, due to past errors. Second, we have several small groups of very vocal, and very opinionated players (I hate using the term toxic... it's not only overused, but the meaning has been lost). Some of these players are very competitive, and they work to "win" the game .... nothing wrong with that at all .... but not everyone is in that boat. They are the meta chasers.... the guys that sit and calculate how to get just one more point of damage out of their master tuned character... and we have the people that are casuals that log in to look at the artwork on rock faces, and wander around just to explore and see the world. (I am more in that camp... but I do understand the others, too).

Then we have the majority of players in the middle .... they enjoy the world, enjoy some of the group content, but aren't trying to find every possible meta point that they can combine.

And each group has a very vocal element within it, that gets on the forums and argues for their view .... again, nothing wrong with that, but the noise does drown out the average person and their opinion, and most are not as extreme, but they are getting tired of the constant change, and the having to redesign characters every few months. And soon, as they are not heard, and not happy, they will first be apathetic ... we are already seeing a LOT of that... and then, once something comes that excites them, they will be gone .... and the game will remain for those that insist that nothing is wrong, etc. It will linger.... slowly fading, as the funds dry up, and there is no money to upgrade servers, or pay developers to create new content..... and eventually, it will shut down. Unless, of course, those same players that argue that "nothing is wrong" can afford to support the whole game, themselves ......

Auldwulfe

Haha I bet you 4 years from now ESO is still running. The only thing that will get shut down is the PC version

I have yet to see a console that can take 32 GB of ram, which a friend of mine has - I am content with 16 so far, but my board can easily take more, and I can upgrade the board, if I need to.
I am running an 8GB video card, as well.
For that matter, I can upgrade my system for less than the cost of a base console, and easily have far more ability. I am currently running 2 SSD Hard Drives, at 4TB each - and I was able to get each one for around $100 a piece...
My system also handles my full surround sound set up, can run up to 4 monitors, and also operates my 3D printer, and other pieces of equipment.

I have nothing against consoles... but I have yet to see one operating my 3D printer while I play ESO on max settings.

Auldwulfe

merpins

Insert Morgan Freeman saying "he's right you know" meme here.

Hämähäkki

merpins wrote: »

Insert Morgan Freeman saying "he's right you know" meme here.

BretonMage

BahometZ wrote: »

I'm still digesting but the longer dots is awful. The timers are all over the place, 10, 12, 15, 20, 24. It is not at all easier to keep track of, and I'm looking at the timers because i lose track of how many times I hit the spammable. Not to mention it's the most drastic change to rotations in years, when we've become so used to the shorter rotos, this is a big upheaval.

I don't understand what the goal was here. I already miss u35.

Yeah, my new rotation's nothing short of a chaotic mess, and I really can't be bothered to learn it, especially if they're going to change things around in another 3 months.

msetten

I am in a social guild on PS-EU that is not really full of end-game meta build players. Most of us are average players and even some really casual players.

A group of us started doing veteran trials a few weeks ago with the help of three higher end players that were helping us to learn the mechanics and all. And we actually did a comparison run: last week vHR and Tuesday evening after the update again vHR with the same group.

Healers had lots of issues doing enough healing, people kept dying and dying. Tanks kept running out of resources. Dps-ers did much less damage. All in all it was chaos, even though we did manage to finish it.

The sentiment afterwards was really really low. Even some of the players that have been playing ESO for years and have experienced many game changes over the years, started to ponder if it was worth to keep playing Elder Scrolls Online or if they should go and find another mmo as they really didn't like what has happened with this update.

Our hope is now that the next PTS update will show us that ZOS understands all of our frustration and will be addressing them in the next update (even though we really want it to change sooner as it will have us struggling for three months with the current update).

boi_anachronism_

My parse dropped to the equivalent of 67k. Eh. from 80k ish. Sick. I don't even qualify for my own prog group right now 😂😭

SilverBride

I had a grand experience scroll so I took my companion to Dragonstar Arena yesterday. I got through 5 rounds in less than an hour solo, which is faster than I ever did before. If anything my performance was better.

SpiritofESO

Nord_Raseri

Eternalscourge1 wrote: »

I've been playing since 2014 on Xbox I know what I'm talking about

Are you sure you know? Eso released on consoles mid 2015...

SaffronCitrusflower

SilverBride wrote: »

I had a grand experience scroll so I took my companion to Dragonstar Arena yesterday. I got through 5 rounds in less than an hour solo, which is faster than I ever did before. If anything my performance was better.

I solo'd Vateshran Hollows this morning in less than half the time it normally takes using only templar jabs. So maybe you're right. U35 is great.

PrimusTiberius

I'm on PS5 and the graphic have improved and my performance has improved greatly. When pressing the buttons during combat, there is no delay what so ever. I used to have to double tap buttons sometimes to trigger an action, last night going through a trial with my guildies, they were hitting every time I pressed a button. I'm gonna have to re-learn my muscle memory /rotation.

During the trial, we took just about the same time as usual and our Templar was getting used to the new action, but she wasn't complaining about the performance. There will be some obvious changes to our character builds and rotations but this game changes and evolves and so will we.

However I have noticed that I haven't seen any players complaining about the game being too easy in weeks. Hm? The next time I see any player complain about the game being too easy, I'm going to remind them about Update 35. Some players should be careful of what they wish for, because you got now.

Cheers

MidniteOwl1913

I'm a healer main, and my dungeon healing in DLCs, in particular, is so bad now. I don't think I'll be doing any more DLC dungeons.

The DPS loss for my DK hasn't been so bad. It's the healing nerf. My healer is a templar and I thought about just respecing to DPS, but the loss of damage for jabs is pretty bad.

rexagamemnon

Nord_Raseri wrote: »

Eternalscourge1 wrote: »

I've been playing since 2014 on Xbox I know what I'm talking about

Are you sure you know? Eso released on consoles mid 2015...

When i saw this i was thinking the same thing, “wasn’t ESO not released until spring 2015?”🤔

Crom_CCCXVI

I started in 2015, play almost every Weekend...

*** this.

Every skill that made a class unique or fun to play is gone.
90% of Sets are absolutely worthless.
4 years ago I had 30+ friends in here, now I have 3.

They all quit because MMO are immersion, even PvP... and if you want some generic balance where everyone has to play exactly the same, they all left.
I don't think I can play this anymore either.

Enundr

Bouldercleave wrote: »

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

If what I am reading here on the forums is any indication, a lot of the PC playerbase is leaving based on this update.

It's not.

I'm seeing a lot of people leaving, and many, many more cancelling their subs in response to U35. So even if people aren't quitting the game, they are quitting their subs. U35 is for sure costing ZOS a lot of subs even if the players don't quit playing all together.

I would want to see some actual data to back up that claim. Forum warriors and guildies SAYING that they are cancelling subs doesn't make it fact.

i mean its only 1 sample set to use but you have steam charts (again just ONE sample , not all of the player base) , believe they were at a 15-16% loss in players on steam version alone. really easy to google.

Enundr

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Well, it seems you all disagree with my views on console players, at least the PS NA players I see in overland activities. YMMV I guess. My crafting hub is in Riften as mentioned elsewhere due to the layout being preferable to crafters like me who don’t have a banker or merchant.

Being forced to endure 5-10 hours of zone text chat every single day gives you an impression of what players are doing. (I’m filtering out the toxic garbage that is not fit to print as well.)

Perhaps you are right. I don’t see any talk about U35 in zc but I see it when grouped with guildies. I guess time will tell once the patch drops and if zc explodes, then maybe I wasn’t so wrong.

thats likely because most of us who were making this updates issues get known have left / stopped bothering to post , now you got the neutral crowd and the white knights left. thats why you dont see as many talking about U35 (as well as ZOS constant censoring in forums)

Enundr

PrimusTiberius wrote: »

I'm on PS5 and the graphic have improved and my performance has improved greatly. When pressing the buttons during combat, there is no delay what so ever. I used to have to double tap buttons sometimes to trigger an action, last night going through a trial with my guildies, they were hitting every time I pressed a button. I'm gonna have to re-learn my muscle memory /rotation.

During the trial, we took just about the same time as usual and our Templar was getting used to the new action, but she wasn't complaining about the performance. There will be some obvious changes to our character builds and rotations but this game changes and evolves and so will we.

However I have noticed that I haven't seen any players complaining about the game being too easy in weeks. Hm? The next time I see any player complain about the game being too easy, I'm going to remind them about Update 35. Some players should be careful of what they wish for, because you got now.

Cheers

thats the funny thing , making mobs die slower is not making it "harder" or "challenging" , [snip] remember week 1 of u35 pts? literally dps was so low they couldnt beat the dps check timers. again thats not hard/challenging , [snip] and the players spotted that almost immediately.

[edited for bashing]

Ghaleb

[snip]

But in all seriousness: The folks heavily criticising U35 delivered a plethora of logs, data, parses and some anecdotal information sprinkled over it. With few exceptions, it clearly indicated a loss of DPS of around 20-30% for the majority. There was even a (not fully representative) poll collecting the loss of DPS. If mobs have 60k health. I deliver 1k DPS. Then it takes a minute to kill the mob. If my damage is nerfed by 20%. How long does killing the mob now take?

There are builds and sets which mitigate some of the loss. But a loss is there nevertheless.

So again. Feelings don’t matter. I want to see your combat logs and in the best case learn where I can improve to compensate for the loss in my DPS.

[edited for baiting & discussing moderator action]

PrimusTiberius

Enundr wrote: »

PrimusTiberius wrote: »

I'm on PS5 and the graphic have improved and my performance has improved greatly. When pressing the buttons during combat, there is no delay what so ever. I used to have to double tap buttons sometimes to trigger an action, last night going through a trial with my guildies, they were hitting every time I pressed a button. I'm gonna have to re-learn my muscle memory /rotation.

During the trial, we took just about the same time as usual and our Templar was getting used to the new action, but she wasn't complaining about the performance. There will be some obvious changes to our character builds and rotations but this game changes and evolves and so will we.

However I have noticed that I haven't seen any players complaining about the game being too easy in weeks. Hm? The next time I see any player complain about the game being too easy, I'm going to remind them about Update 35. Some players should be careful of what they wish for, because you got now.

Cheers

thats the funny thing , making mobs die slower is not making it "harder" or "challenging" , [snip] remember week 1 of u35 pts? literally dps was so low they couldnt beat the dps check timers. again thats not hard/challenging , [snip] and the players spotted that almost immediately.

Oh I know, don't miss understand me, I'm not thrilled about the update either, or for the fact that the Oakensoul ring got nerfed so soon after it dropped. The mobs are taking longer to take out, thats both with solo and group activities but I'm not gonna sit around and complain about it all day.

I'll work on updating my builds just like any other major update I've been through (been playing since 2017). ZOS made the claim that this update was to make it easier for new/low level players to advance, reading the patch notes, anyone could see this was a cross the board nerf, just like the CP change/update was a nerf.

I don't know what ZOS is thinking internally and I'm not going to speculate on that. I see a lot of potential good ideas that I think would improve the game, but I'm guessing that would require a lot of re-coding, which would takes a lot of time and resources to pull off.

I enjoy the lore, the game play and I hang with a good group of guildies who are on the same level of play. People over react to change, not just here in these forums but in life as well. I have the mindset of when change hits, I adjust and overcome whatever obstacles present themselves.

Cheers

[edited to remove quote]

Ragnarok0130

Eternalscourge1 wrote: »

Auldwulfe wrote: »

Thing is, perceived zone population is not a real indicator -- as they only create a new instance of that zone, when the current is full ..... so, it can look the same, and have half the population.

What I am looking at is guild populations, and log ins.
I am in 4 guilds, but one doesn't count --- it's my personal guild, and made of people I know in real life .... we made it to have our own chat channel that can be a little bigger than a group one

Of the other 3 -- one has seen about a 23% decline in members, and our applications for new members has seriously declined. The second went from 331 members, 7 weeks ago, to 26 members as of yesterday.
The third, where I am an officer, has, for the first time, purged people that haven't logged in within 30 or more days.
And lastly, guilds I applied to, 6 months ago, that had told me they were full, are now contacting me, as they are recruiting.
Coupled with the increase in guild recruiting in chat.... and yes, it has gone up..... people are leaving.

Will the game just collapse... no.... I play Age of Conan, a game that has, repeatedly, "died off, because the devs don't maintain it".... but it lingers on.
I like the lore, and some of the gameplay, so I log in once a week for a couple of hours to run around a bit..... but it is getting pretty scarce as to player population. Most of the remaining players are those that don't have systems that can handle heavier games like ESO..... or have invested so much, they refuse to leave.

I am here because I love Tamriel --- I have been an Elder Scrolls fan since Elder Scrolls 1, Arena was a new release game.
I run the Gog Cut Daggerfall with all the mods .... which is free, by the way.

But, from a business point of view, ZOS has lost the NPS score they need... in business, we have NPS, or Net Promoter Score --- it's a value of how pleased the customers are, and how much they are doing free advertising for you. Right now, FFXIV has a very positive NPS ... people are talking it up all over in various forums. You even see it here in a forum that is specific to another game... in generic forums, you hear a LOT more about it, as there is less chance of snipping.

A bad NPS isn't instant death... but it is not a healthy sign. Verizon has a bad NPS, but is big enough, and controls enough, that it stays in place....although more and more of their profits are due to allowing smaller networks to ride on their infrastructure.

Right now, ZOS has ESO .... and the Elder Scrolls Series has enough core fanbase that they will tolerate a LOT to stay with this franchise.... but they are going to have competition..... and unless they rise to deal with that.... they will stagnate, and then start to slowly drop off, until they resemble Age of Conan.... played by old grognards that still like the lore, or are attached to characters they put a lot of work into, and muddle through the junk for that.

With Julian LeFay, the creator of Arena and Daggerfall, creating a new game called Wayward Realms..... I can see ZOS taking a solid hit, there... unless they improve their NPS prior, they are going to get hurt with that one. The early releases are already incredible ---

ZOS is in a delicate position... they have to do work on the game, and it is going to need a complete overhaul. I can see where this patch could have been a great first step in that direction, but they are not great with communication, and the playerbase isn't forgiving, due to past errors. Second, we have several small groups of very vocal, and very opinionated players (I hate using the term toxic... it's not only overused, but the meaning has been lost). Some of these players are very competitive, and they work to "win" the game .... nothing wrong with that at all .... but not everyone is in that boat. They are the meta chasers.... the guys that sit and calculate how to get just one more point of damage out of their master tuned character... and we have the people that are casuals that log in to look at the artwork on rock faces, and wander around just to explore and see the world. (I am more in that camp... but I do understand the others, too).

Then we have the majority of players in the middle .... they enjoy the world, enjoy some of the group content, but aren't trying to find every possible meta point that they can combine.

And each group has a very vocal element within it, that gets on the forums and argues for their view .... again, nothing wrong with that, but the noise does drown out the average person and their opinion, and most are not as extreme, but they are getting tired of the constant change, and the having to redesign characters every few months. And soon, as they are not heard, and not happy, they will first be apathetic ... we are already seeing a LOT of that... and then, once something comes that excites them, they will be gone .... and the game will remain for those that insist that nothing is wrong, etc. It will linger.... slowly fading, as the funds dry up, and there is no money to upgrade servers, or pay developers to create new content..... and eventually, it will shut down. Unless, of course, those same players that argue that "nothing is wrong" can afford to support the whole game, themselves ......

Auldwulfe

Haha I bet you 4 years from now ESO is still running. The only thing that will get shut down is the PC version

One thing I've learned over the years being a mult-iplatform gamer on PC/Xbox/PS is that PC is the most likely platform for games to run successfully long term while the console version depopulates due to the population going to the next best thing. I played Quake II on PC for literally 20 years in full servers, I still play 10-20 year old Battlefield titles on PC with mostly or completely full servers. Good luck finding active games for 10 year old games on console due to hardware obsolesce. This isn't a PC vs Console argument, it's a "what a demographic is looking for" argument and games always last longer on PC and I've been gaming since 1980 so I have a lot of personal observational data. ESO started on PC and will end on PC long after console support is ended.

Ishtarknows

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

I'm a healer main, and my dungeon healing in DLCs, in particular, is so bad now. I don't think I'll be doing any more DLC dungeons.

The DPS loss for my DK hasn't been so bad. It's the healing nerf. My healer is a templar and I thought about just respecing to DPS, but the loss of damage for jabs is pretty bad.

I don't understand what you're having trouble with. Ritual is still good, replace regen with Vigour, orbs and illustrious are still good, Combat Prayer too.

My Templar hybrid only runs Extended Ritual and breath of life for heals in our vet dungeon achievement group and does DD things mainly. Apart from the lower overall damage of our group prolonging fights heals don't seem to have changed noticeably. (I also heal trial trifectas and that's a different story, but dungeons are fine)

K9002

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

One thing I've learned over the years being a mult-iplatform gamer on PC/Xbox/PS is that PC is the most likely platform for games to run successfully long term while the console version depopulates due to the population going to the next best thing. I played Quake II on PC for literally 20 years in full servers, I still play 10-20 year old Battlefield titles on PC with mostly or completely full servers. Good luck finding active games for 10 year old games on console due to hardware obsolesce. This isn't a PC vs Console argument, it's a "what a demographic is looking for" argument and games always last longer on PC and I've been gaming since 1980 so I have a lot of personal observational data. ESO started on PC and will end on PC long after console support is ended.

That's the story of the first console MMO - Phantasy Star Online. For many years Sega refused to release a PC version, citing the low popularity of that platform in Japan. And yet the PC version is the only one still kept alive by fans. On the game's 20th anniversary the old developers were interviewed about the various aspects of making PSO and shipping it worldwide. One of the closing questions was whether they would consider bringing PSO to modern consoles or phones, and they were surprised that there are still people who want to play such an old game.

Elsonso

K9002 wrote: »

For many years Sega refused to release a PC version, citing the low popularity of that platform in Japan. And yet the PC version is the only one still kept alive by fans. On the game's 20th anniversary the old developers were interviewed about the various aspects of making PSO and shipping it worldwide. One of the closing questions was whether they would consider bringing PSO to modern consoles or phones, and they were surprised that there are still people who want to play such an old game.

The idea that the game is temporary seems pervasive in the minds of game developers. It is likely brought about by the constant demand for better graphics, etc, but a really good game will live on, even when the graphics and game play is woefully out of date.

My feeling is that game studios that don't, or can't, make really good games are probably right in thinking their game is temporary.

Then again, it also seems that some studios are only interested in games for marketing and revenue purposes. The game only needs to be good enough to live on until the next "better" game is done. Making the game "really good" rather than "good enough" cuts into profits. They don't even try to make a game that will last 20 years. Besides, the studio only needs to be around long enough to be bought up by a larger studio.

MidniteOwl1913

Ishtarknows wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

I'm a healer main, and my dungeon healing in DLCs, in particular, is so bad now. I don't think I'll be doing any more DLC dungeons.

The DPS loss for my DK hasn't been so bad. It's the healing nerf. My healer is a templar and I thought about just respecing to DPS, but the loss of damage for jabs is pretty bad.

I don't understand what you're having trouble with. Ritual is still good, replace regen with Vigour, orbs and illustrious are still good, Combat Prayer too.

My Templar hybrid only runs Extended Ritual and breath of life for heals in our vet dungeon achievement group and does DD things mainly. Apart from the lower overall damage of our group prolonging fights heals don't seem to have changed noticeably. (I also heal trial trifectas and that's a different story, but dungeons are fine)

I pug mostly normals and there is often a lot of chaos. It's the place new players start. It's not exactly headless chickens, but close. Sometimes I use RR just to get an idea of where everyone is. Any heal that requires that they stay in one place for any time at all isn't very effective.

I don't mind the chaos, new players often really need a healer, especially in some of the DLCs, but I want to be an effective healer. I'm less so now.