You think the player response to U35 on PC was bad, just wait until it hits consoles...

katanagirl1

Console players, in my estimation, are much more casual than PC players. They like to play with their friends, and most of all they like to have fun. They also, for the most part, don’t have forum accounts and post on the forums.

What is going to happen when the update goes live there? They will have no idea what is coming because they don’t have those forum accounts, don’t bother to read patch notes and they certainly don’t follow the PTS. They are going to be completely caught off-guard with these dps nerfs.

I suspect there will be many conversations in zone text chat (which we cannot turn off by the way, if we want to have guild text chat) about “what happened to my dps?” “where is my damage?” and “why am I dying so easily?”

If what I am reading here on the forums is any indication, a lot of the PC playerbase is leaving based on this update. I predict you will lose much, much more of your console playerbase once they realize what has happened. I suspect it will feel worse if you don’t know it’s coming.

Can you really afford to have that happen?

FluffWit

Did you just call me a toxic casual?!?!? 🙀

Kidding you kinda have a point. But I think the folks who raid or pvp are all too aware what's coming- most of my friends quit when they saw these changes were coming.

Hämähäkki

They will have no idea what is coming because they don’t have those forum accounts, don’t bother to read patch notes and they certainly don’t follow the PTS. They are going to be completely caught off-guard with these dps nerfs.

That's totally not true. A lot of console players are activ in the forums and they are totally aware what's happening here.
I used to be on ps4 and switched to pc 2 years ago.

phaneub17_ESO

Same as here, only the Vet Trial and Hard mode Dungeoners will feel the full effect, everyone else who is more casual will be "meh" its alright and move on. I'm still laying out on the dots, but find myself spamming the burst attacks more frequently like Force Pulse. Jabs animation could use a speed up on the last stab, it looks way too sluggish to pierce anything.

My stamina characters are mostly unaffected and do the same they did before; the Stam Sorc and Templar is hitting a little less hard, but everyone else is relatively the same. Magicka characters took a pretty big chunk out on them, but they can still finish content just takes about 30% longer than before.

Blinx

The word has spread, I already notice less people than before on Xbox/NA, & /EU, I know I'm not going to be too happy as my main is a Magicka Sorcerer, followed by 2 Magicka alts-a DK, and a Warden....

My hope that one day I could solo Shada's Tear went up in smoke sigh, I can almost but not quite, and next patch will be impossible.

Console is my preferred way to play ESO, I do play on pc, just not as much

redlink1979

katanagirl1 wrote: »

Console players, in my estimation, are much more casual than PC players.(...) They also, for the most part, don’t have forum accounts and post on the forums.(...)

Your assumption is not correct.

SilverBride

katanagirl1 wrote: »

If what I am reading here on the forums is any indication, a lot of the PC playerbase is leaving based on this update.

It's not.

Captain_Devildog

They while get surprised and get very upset..

katanagirl1

FluffWit wrote: »

Did you just call me a toxic casual?!?!? 🙀

Kidding you kinda have a point. But I think the folks who raid or pvp are all too aware what's coming- most of my friends quit when they saw these changes were coming.

Yeah, the top dps players on console are aware of this. My point is that I believe the majority of players on console are much more casual than PC players. Of course that might mean a higher turnover rate and those casual players don’t stay long anyway. I would never call anyone toxic casual, these is nothing toxic about just wanting to have fun.

Maybe my estimation of PC players is inaccurate. I have had many friends on PS that never wanted to bother with a skill rotation, for a lot of them their biggest build decision it to go werewolf or vampire, had a friend give me mats to craft his healer an Adept Rider gear set, finally got the hubby to play and he’s a stamDK but he runs around spamming snipe constantly became it’s easier and he doesn’t like to barswap.

If PC players are like this I stand corrected.

OBJnoob

I think we stay pretty up to date on console. I don't really pve, but in PvP most of my friends that I'd consider good players are already toying around with u35 setups just to get used to their bars if nothing else.

I think there's a greater flaw in your reasoning though. Is it really the casuals that are leaving or the vets? I thought it was the vets. In which case, if there are indeed more casuals on Xbox then there will probably be less people leaving.

phaneub17_ESO

It really depends on how many whales leave. [snip]

[edited for discussing moderator actions]

VampiricByNature

We have lost people on console in the weeks just leading up to this patch. Since some of my progressions on PS NA clearly weren't close to completion, we had 3 people drop off. [This was not a dead end team. We just got dawnbringer a month ago] I think we will have to change what we are doing from attempting to cleanup EOF to get to GS. I don't think that will still be a realistic goal for us.

Our other team decided to do ttt now for the few people missing the achievement because we are afraid to do anything harder like XS or HH at this time. We figured TTT was older and easier.

I hope we can keep moving forward but the community is small.

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

Thank you for your understanding.

BahometZ

I agree that the greater population on console is pretty disconnected with how the game operates, the PTS, the forums, just generally less engaged with whatever communication method ZOS decides to use to inform about the game. I see a lot of clueless behaviour on the regular. It's not really the fault of the average player if they have to search for video content to learn how to play the game optimally, and be sure to filter your searches to the most recent patch, because there is an iceberg of outdated info out there.

I'm seeing retirements, core disbands, guild closures aplenty in the xbox endgame community in response to another yoyo patch. We're all very aware and for the most part disappointed in the current game philosophy. Will be interesting to see how the overlanders react to a fresh batch of fundamental change. I think the aesthetic elements will meet the most alarm. How many templar mains are going to be ambushed by the awful jabs animation change? I don't think they really care about numbers.

It's an interesting dichotomy, casual gamers who don't research the game and don't follow changes will probably just keep doing what they're doing pretty much unaware and unaffected because they don't do challenging content. Endgamers who follow all the changes, research the game and are immensely engaged will be frustrated and stymied by this latest patch. So is the lesson, don't bother? Embrace shallow engagement? I imagine that's the dream audience for a gaming company, hordes of casuals who consume in blissful ignorance.

It's hard not to feel despair at the direction of this game.

UnabashedlyHonest

SilverBride wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

If what I am reading here on the forums is any indication, a lot of the PC playerbase is leaving based on this update.

It's not.

I'm seeing a lot of people leaving, and many, many more cancelling their subs in response to U35. So even if people aren't quitting the game, they are quitting their subs. U35 is for sure costing ZOS a lot of subs even if the players don't quit playing all together.

jbanks27

Well, I'm a console player and I do have an account on this site so that I can provide some feedback. As my opinion, console players are the most overlooked when it comes to the decisions that are being made with this game. PC players get the wonderful tool - dressing room - We get a new item added for purchase that lets us switch between two load outs and not during trials, dungeons, etc. I do review ESO logs - and I look at the load outs, skills, CP, and other information on timings that the highest level DPS on PC has to offer -- and let me tell you -- PC players have it so so easy -- You can click a button and totally change your gear, cp, skills, etc. in seconds between trash pulls, bosses, etc. You have add-ons that tell you if your targeted, when the next event is about to happen, how and when to do your light attack/skill combo with timings, what you running dps is, etc. We can't do add-ons. We don't have help.

I'm not ranting at all on PC players -- But what the highest levels of DPS are output in the game is the very thing that consoles don't have -- I'd love to see some vids from the highest level dps to do it on a console. I really would. Every time something cool gets added to the game -- give it one patch - and it's taken away -- CP810 went away to now the 3600 --- Oh, wait, these tree items -- we'll take them away too...

Now, what do we as console players get to look forward to? I higher level of NERF because of things we don't even have on console. And if we did have them, it would be because they were developed and figure they can charge us crowns for.

For over a year - us console players have been waiting on one thing -- The developers stated in one of the online events that every single piece of veteran and hard-mode content was tested with NO CP Applied -- I would love to see that demonstrated on the live server.

Bouldercleave

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

If what I am reading here on the forums is any indication, a lot of the PC playerbase is leaving based on this update.

It's not.

I'm seeing a lot of people leaving, and many, many more cancelling their subs in response to U35. So even if people aren't quitting the game, they are quitting their subs. U35 is for sure costing ZOS a lot of subs even if the players don't quit playing all together.

I would want to see some actual data to back up that claim. Forum warriors and guildies SAYING that they are cancelling subs doesn't make it fact.

SilverBride

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

If what I am reading here on the forums is any indication, a lot of the PC playerbase is leaving based on this update.

It's not.

I'm seeing a lot of people leaving, and many, many more cancelling their subs in response to U35. So even if people aren't quitting the game, they are quitting their subs. U35 is for sure costing ZOS a lot of subs even if the players don't quit playing all together.

I've never understood why players cancel their subs in protest and lose all those great perks. I find the game much less enjoyable without them.

[edited to clarify]

Bekkael

I play on Xbox NA, I am a "casual", and I post on the forums and read threads here too. All the zone chatter I have read lately has been talking about the impending U35, mostly in Craglorn, but some in other zones too. There are mixed opinions as to just how hard this will hit players, but I have seen more negative than positive comments.

So, there really are lots of players who are aware of what's going on in console-land.

xthrshx

For several years I gladly paid for two ESO+ subscriptions. And even though I thought pay-walling the craft bag was a pretty slimey move, I loved this game so much that I really didn’t mind paying the sub for access to all the content. Even when I bought crowns, knowing everything was insanely priced, I told myself, “You’re supporting a game you love.”

Not anymore. I canceled my sub (and my wife’s) because this update ruins everything we enjoyed in the game. Weeks of VDSR HM prog completely wasted. Zero point at all in trying for achievements during this patch. No clue what the next patch will change, so you can’t even prepare. It’s just pointless.

For a while I tried to stick around and just help mid-level players get some clears and achievements, but can’t do that anymore because every guild is a ghost town. There’s no incentive for me to keep playing, so there’s no incentive for me to keep paying.

I’m sad to lose this game, but I wouldn’t even consider coming back unless every change in this patch was reversed and ZOS issued a genuine apology for this entire ordeal.

renne

Honestly, I'd like to see any proof of all the OPs claims that console players are "casuals" who "don't post on the forums" and "have no idea what's coming" and will be "caught off guard" and more so than the vast population on PC.

And that there's "a higher turnover rate and those casual players don’t stay long anyway" on console where apparently there isn't on PC.

Where is the proof of all these claims? A lot of people - not just the top end performers - on console know what's coming. We don't magically not know a single thing about forums and patch notes and are "casuals" just because we play on console any more than PC players are magically all in the know for everything and also super hardcore elitists.

renne

SilverBride wrote: »

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

If what I am reading here on the forums is any indication, a lot of the PC playerbase is leaving based on this update.

It's not.

I'm seeing a lot of people leaving, and many, many more cancelling their subs in response to U35. So even if people aren't quitting the game, they are quitting their subs. U35 is for sure costing ZOS a lot of subs even if the players don't quit playing all together.

I've never understood why players hurt themselves by cancelling their subs in protest and losing all those great perks.

[snip]

You don't agree that people are leaving the game because of U35, you don't believe people who've said they're leaving or their friends are leaving, and you've said it repeatedly in all the U35 threads. You have your opinion, other people have theirs. And that's fine.

[snip]
[edited for baiting]

UnabashedlyHonest

SilverBride wrote: »

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

If what I am reading here on the forums is any indication, a lot of the PC playerbase is leaving based on this update.

It's not.

I'm seeing a lot of people leaving, and many, many more cancelling their subs in response to U35. So even if people aren't quitting the game, they are quitting their subs. U35 is for sure costing ZOS a lot of subs even if the players don't quit playing all together.

I've never understood why players hurt themselves by cancelling their subs in protest and losing all those great perks.

There are ways to get all the perks without the sub, it's just a little less convenient is all. Many players pay(ed) for the sub because they wanted to support the game they love(d). But most people would rather not give money to a company who's attitude is "waa waa waa, we're working on it" instead of actually listening to customer feedback and working on it to make the game better. U35 most definitely has been the proverbial straw that broke the camels back for a lot of people.

The only protest a player can make that ZOS might listen to is to stop giving them money, unfortunately. We've exhausted our feedback options many times over to no avail.

katanagirl1

Well, it seems you all disagree with my views on console players, at least the PS NA players I see in overland activities. YMMV I guess. My crafting hub is in Riften as mentioned elsewhere due to the layout being preferable to crafters like me who don’t have a banker or merchant.

Being forced to endure 5-10 hours of zone text chat every single day gives you an impression of what players are doing. (I’m filtering out the toxic garbage that is not fit to print as well.)

Perhaps you are right. I don’t see any talk about U35 in zc but I see it when grouped with guildies. I guess time will tell once the patch drops and if zc explodes, then maybe I wasn’t so wrong.

OrkWizard

SilverBride wrote: »

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

If what I am reading here on the forums is any indication, a lot of the PC playerbase is leaving based on this update.

It's not.

I'm seeing a lot of people leaving, and many, many more cancelling their subs in response to U35. So even if people aren't quitting the game, they are quitting their subs. U35 is for sure costing ZOS a lot of subs even if the players don't quit playing all together.

I've never understood why players cancel their subs in protest and lose all those great perks. I find the game much less enjoyable without them.

[edited to clarify]

I cancelled my sub because I don't like the direction the game is going, why would I fund something I don't like? I will keep half an eye on it until u36 and maybe resub if it looks like a good patch. If u36 goes full steam ahead with whatever this is I will not be back.

renne

katanagirl1 wrote: »

My crafting hub is in Riften as mentioned elsewhere due to the layout being preferable to crafters like me who don’t have a banker or merchant.

Being forced to endure 5-10 hours of zone text chat every single day

Well there's your problem right there, Riften zone chat on PS-NA is a whole other beast

But just because people aren't talking about U35 in zone chat doesn't necessarily mean no one knows anything about it and everyone else in there is a casual - I don't think I've ever seen anything about the game discussed in zc - it's all wtb/wts, American politics (not what we come to ESO for, ppl), requests for assistance with WBs, trolling and whatever the Riften zc is (which I would have said anyway, if you'd said your home zone was literally anywhere else hahaha).

Guild chat is where you're more likely to see discussion of changes and updates.

renne

xthrshx wrote: »

For several years I gladly paid for two ESO+ subscriptions. And even though I thought pay-walling the craft bag was a pretty slimey move, I loved this game so much that I really didn’t mind paying the sub for access to all the content. Even when I bought crowns, knowing everything was insanely priced, in told myself, “You’re supporting a game you love.”

Not anymore. I canceled my sub (and my wife’s) because this update ruins everything we enjoyed in the game. Weeks of VDSR HM prog completely wasted. Zero point at all in trying for achievements during this patch. No clue what the next patch will change, so you can’t even prepare. It’s just pointless.

For a while I tried to stick around and just help mid-level players get some clears and achievements, but can’t do that anymore because every guild is a ghost town. There’s no incentive for me to keep playing, so there’s no incentive for me to keep paying.

I’m sad to lose this game, but I wouldn’t even consider coming back unless every change in this patch was reversed and ZOS issued a genuine apology for this entire ordeal.

My (annual) sub was up for renewal on Aug 6 so I was really interested to see the progress of the patch because it would decide if I renewed or not. I did not. I don't play a lot anymore because of this but when I do I manage my inventory without a craft bag. It's annoying, yes, it's way less convenient but it's entirely possible.

Continuing on: there was a crown sale for Quakecon a week ago - I was the crown seller for my group of ESO friends (and friends of friends), and I didn't buy a single one when normally I'd buy a LOT (plus I would also buy full price occasionally if there's something I REALLY want and I don't have any left).

Between my annual sub renewal and the crowns I'd usually buy on sale, realistically, this month we're talking about nearly $700 AUD I didn't give to ZOS and yeah, I am just one person, drop in the ocean, etc. But I'm not the only one not spending this money.

Hämähäkki

SilverBride wrote: »

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

If what I am reading here on the forums is any indication, a lot of the PC playerbase is leaving based on this update.

It's not.

I'm seeing a lot of people leaving, and many, many more cancelling their subs in response to U35. So even if people aren't quitting the game, they are quitting their subs. U35 is for sure costing ZOS a lot of subs even if the players don't quit playing all together.

I've never understood why players cancel their subs in protest and lose all those great perks. I find the game much less enjoyable without them.

[edited to clarify]

The thing is, you can easily play the game without a sub. It's just a little more challenging in terms of inventory/bank management.
I play without a sub for years now and have no problems with it. I used to have a sub for several years and will resub when ZOS gets their game to run properly.

ApostateHobo

There are definitely less of us console players on here, but we do still have a presence. I do think we'll get hit harder just due to the fact that getting the super high damage that's attainable on pc is in general more difficult on console. We don't have all the add-on's that you guys do to help out, and the game performance for us tends to be worse. I think there are also more of us in the mid to low dps range, so there'll probably be more players unable to complete certain content than on pc after the update.

I personally can't speak for what's been said in zone chat because I haven't bothered to play since like january. Card games and bretons just aren't my thing lol. Unless things get significantly better, and zos actually seems like they have at least some semblance of an end goal for this mess, I don't see myself playing again anytime soon.

dmnqwk

SilverBride wrote: »

UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

katanagirl1 wrote: »

If what I am reading here on the forums is any indication, a lot of the PC playerbase is leaving based on this update.

It's not.

I'm seeing a lot of people leaving, and many, many more cancelling their subs in response to U35. So even if people aren't quitting the game, they are quitting their subs. U35 is for sure costing ZOS a lot of subs even if the players don't quit playing all together.

I've never understood why players cancel their subs in protest and lose all those great perks. I find the game much less enjoyable without them.

[edited to clarify]

It's not easy for a lot of people to understand somebody elses view, a lot of people just say they do then re-frame their viewpoint to attempt to defeat it.

The people who cancel in protest do so because they are frustrated and have three realistic options:

1) Turn their frustration into negative aggression - this leads to abuse, violence and other forms of terrorism that doesn't succeed
2) Turn their frustration into positive aggression - this could be a non-violent protest (such as cancelling sub, making a youtube video about it, posting constructively on the forums etc) or it could be to design their own game and destroy ESO legitimately by creating a competitor
3) The final outlet for frustration, sanctioned aggression, doesn't really apply here so the third option is to do nothing and hope the frustration subsides.

Obviously people who are not frustrated by a scenario will cry 'I don't get why you're so angry over...' will not share the view, and often just react a lack of understanding; but what is always a bad sign is when someone finishes the sentence with '...when X is happening in the world.' That's a real lack of empathy and a very dangerous mindset to have.

When the game hits the consoles, the PC players may have tapered their feelings, felt some kind of catharsis or simply allowed their emotions to subsist but the important thing to do is support the console players if and when they have a frustrated reaction to the situation.

To re-iterate... frustration needs an outlet, a healthy one, and cancelling your sub is a very healthy form of release for the aggression that is created from the frustration. Belittling the ideal will often lead players down the path of negative aggression, causing them to rant and rave or... take things further violently (and that's not good).

spartaxoxo

As for why I cancel subs sometimes....

We have an expression where I'm from "Money Talks, Nonsense walks." Meaning that at the end of the day, when it comes to business dealings, the only thing that matters is cash. While I don't fully agree with that, it does have a good deal of truth to it imo. So, if I really hate something then I let my money do the talking. To get a corporation to actually listen , a lot more money than I could ever bring to the table is needed. So, if others don't feel the same way I will be ignored. But, it's okay, because I felt good about how I choose to spend my money. I don't spend it on stuff I hate. I might continue to play the game, but they ain't getting a dollar out of me. However, if enough other people also stop spending money by quitting or canceling, well that money starts talking loud and clear. And change is gonna come. Most often not exactly what I wanted, but they certainly aren't gonna play deaf anymore.

As of right now, the sub is paid through til next year. But auto-renew has been turned off and it's unlikely I'll re-up my sub.