Notes on the Quitting ESO epidemic.

Legendry

Hey all, I wanted to share some thoughts with all of you. First of all, I am Legendry, one of the founding members of the Cobra Kai PvP NA guild (not the red weaklings, the Badass blues), most of my experience with this game comes from PvP, but I have also tackled hardcore PvE content, I have been a part of Jedi Council NA guild, they can vouch for me. I start by pointing this resumee so we all understand where my comments are coming from. I have played ESO for 4-5 years now and I consider it to be the best gaming experience I ever had, period. I played several videogames throughout almost 20 years of gaming (yes I am a grownup); and hands down, ESO PvP was the best of all those experiences. The combat mechanics as they were a couple years back, plus the awesome community made it for me.
I stopped playing ESO several months back, I log in more scarcely and find myself not engaged by the game, I find no incentive and almost all of my friends are not playing anymore, so yeah, loneliness.
I will not start a rant, or a series of complains but I will adress what I think is the actual cause for MY decision to stop playing ESO, because I believe a big chunk of the PvP community will agree on my point: I think the development team has very poor timing. Allow me to elaborate.
We all know there is a basic principle to game development called: Dynamic Equilibrium. This means a game must remain balanced by not finding an exact sweetspot where "most" players want it and stays that way forever; but tries to "stay balanced" by making some adjustments now and then. This a very effective technique to keep a product alive and it is actually a great idea, but how to implement this great concept in a specific game environment is where the real mastery is.
Allow me to bring and example: the League of Legends development team are masters at Dynamic Equilibrium implementation. Every couple of weeks things change in LOL, gear and characters are nerfed or buffed, but the thing is: the player has no extra load on this implementation and incentives keep the same. Example: the first game after a new patch in LOL the player has access to all new gear and all new changes since the start of the match, they don't have to grind, the don't have to level new stuff, they are just ready to go with the changes and can adapt very fast to them because these changes do not mean extra work for the player.
ESO has a bigger enviroment and is a much more complex and more fun game, but the developers just don't understand the timing of it. Combat and core mechanic changes in ESO must be implemented at a much slower pace, like every 6-8 months. In the state of ESO these changes occur on a 2-3 month basis, and this means that every 3 months or so dedicated players have to grind again, spend a lot of money in upgrades, run a lot of tests just to find that they already have new gear to grind; thus annihilating one of the best aspects of ESO: build crafting. If you don't get the time to craft, test and enjoy a build, then there's no point in making new ones. That's bye bye incentives right there. A veteran player most of the time will be trying to craft their own builds rather than watch youtube.
It is understandable that a development team has to justify their existence by developing, and it is clear that with the changes they are aiming to have people play more ESO, but they have to notice the opposite is happening. I have found myself many times thinking like this: ESO is the best PvP ever, so why am I not playing it? How can someone consider ESO the best option in terms of PvP experience and at the same time not play the game? I belive this is the case for most PvPers from ESO.
Very poor timing on implementing Dynamic Equilibrium is driving people away from what could be the best gaming experience. You must allow people to be able to explore the game again, to learn it, to find cracks and holes and new Ideas (and I don't mean new players, I mean the community the already has); you have to allow veteran players to develop a sense of achievemnent. If I felt like grinding I would pick something like destiny 2 or warframe. That is not what ESO was a couple years back but it's definetly what is becoming.
So yeah, stop changing combat and core mechanics for at least a year and you will see ESO shining again.
For all there is GG ESO, we had a lot of fun.
Luck to you all.

mandricus

Spot on.
This is the same reason why I'm taking a break. Can't cope with a system that asks me to rebuild most of my alts every 3 or 6 months.
This, and the fact that, usually, when addressing balancing issues, looks like there is no middleground. In most games, when meta gear is nerfed, it's addressed by making little changes (sometimes even in small changes trough incremental patches: they tune it down a little bit, check the reaction of the player base, and, if needed, they tune it down again a little bit, until they find the good spot) so it will not be meta anymore, but it will be still good, balanced and effective for most of the non-meta chasers.
This is not the case in ESO, where most of the times a set or a mythic, when "balanced", typically goes from being brokenly overpowered to being utterly trash. This add incremental "build fatigue", and is another reason why you have to constantly change all your builds if you want to be at a decent level.

That said, i agree with you on the basis point: for me, best game ever, best PVP ever. We are all here on this forum complaining about the changes because we have feelings for this game. I personally love it. I would not spend my time complaining on the forums of a game that I don't like. I would simply uninstall it and move on. We are there complaining because we care about this game.

Riptide

Funny thing is my wife and I and two of our friends jumped back to ESO a bit after the recent expansion - because we were worn out of Destiny 2’s seasonal reboot and grind. So u35 was a /facepalm from the moment it hit the PTS.

We’ve unsubbed and kicking around FFXIV now and I’m watching to see what u36 week 1 PTS is like. If no substantive change in direction we’ll uninstall and the forums will be all I bother with until I see a shift, or Diablo 4 launches, whichever comes first. On console at least I think that one is going to pull quite a lot of combat focused ESO folks unless they stablize, because if you are going to regrind every season, Diablo 4 will almost assuredly be a better mousetrap for well and true. Only way not to lose a very appreciable number of folks to it will be to differentiate, and that means specializing in long term build stability. If builds are ephemeral, then there will simply be cooler games to play that share that central quality, brass tacks.

So they can adapt, or not.

maxchaos92

Right to the Point.
I've left the game some months ago because from when they implemented the first mythic item, the game undergoes full time grind and rebalances.
I was fun of constantly playing a char that was considered non-meta but still doing good, always chasing the best DPS with hours of parse.
But they started to change things so fast that while I was grinding the new sets,I needed to farm mats for crafting,or level up a new skill line,meanwhile wasting hundreds of golds for pots and gear golding.
All this would then be useless after the next patch that changed everything again.
Stop It.
Now I'm back Just to leech some ap,rip trials,I miss the good old days waiting in craglorn for some vMoL and vSO

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I agree with a lot of that, and I am in the same boat (mostly). Been around since Beta, I have a GO, I chased leaderboards in PVE once upon a time, and probably spend way too much time on these forums. I just find it difficult to login in. I am not going to solely blame U35, because my playtime has been dwindling for a few years now, but it is a good example of the problem. I am down to basically one good friend that still plays and a handful of acquaintances. People I raided with once upon a time, that still might IM me for a run. Most of the best players I know left over a year ago.

My biggest issue is the CONSTANT need to L2P all over again. It just feels like every patch is grind new gear, learn a new rotation, perhaps relearn an old class, get it just how I want it, bam, new patch.

Now I am not naïve, I know gear treadmills keep MMOs alive (think I already typed that once today), and I have no issue with a new set or two be worth going after with each patch, but there just too much changing every three months. Entire specs, classes, playstyles go from wildly OP to completely unviable in an instant.

U35 IMO is a disaster. It totally misses the mark as to what is really the issue between the floor and the ceiling, and it really makes me question how much these devs have a handle on their own game. The ceiling is leaving the game in droves and the floor is flooding the forums with "why is my damage nerfed to the ground."

If I spend more than nominal time between now and u36 in tamriel, it will be only for knocking out some quests and perhaps filling some holes in the stickerbook. I am not learning new rotations or actually spending resources on making new gear. This was such a big change in u35 that you know they are going to be scrambling in u36, so the pendulum is going to swing hard again. Its tiresome.

Jaraal

mandricus wrote: »

This is not the case in ESO, where most of the times a set or a mythic, when "balanced", typically goes from being brokenly overpowered to being utterly trash. This add incremental "build fatigue", and is another reason why you have to constantly change all your builds if you want to be at a decent level.

This has happened so many times now that it can correctly be called a strategy, versus a coincidence.

The MO has been to introduce something overpowered behind a paywall to get people to buy the latest expansion, and then once a sales quota or projected percentage of engagement has been reached, to heavily nerf it.

And they make no effort to hide the intentions. Oakensoul got nerfed on the same day that High Isle went on sale at a discount.

OrkWizard

Sad to say after 2 mostly enjoyable years I am no longer interested in playing the game in it's current state. [snip] ZoS as a whole needs to realise when they have made a mistake and hold their hands up, there would have been no shame in scrapping this disaster of an update.

[edited for bashing]

SilverBride

There is no quitting ESO epidemic.

FantasticFreddie

The grind for most of the mythic items is simply awful. 0/10

And they will inevitably get nerfed.

nookji

OrkWizard wrote: »

Sad to say after 2 mostly enjoyable years I am no longer interested in playing the game in it's current state. [snip] ZoS as a whole needs to realise when they have made a mistake and hold their hands up, there would have been no shame in scrapping this disaster of an update.

Or just ask the most experienced players of the community for free, but even this will not be done. Then they let test us on PTS to ignore the feedback afterwards. It is so frustrating

@SilverBride yes there is a quitting epidemic. Please if you are not interested in VET/HM content, stop arguing in each single thread against peoples feedback that clearly talk from the effect of U35 regarding endgame content.
Maybe housing fans and solo overland players do not quit, but the majority of players that do like the competition of harder content do and that is just a fact.

The players don't post everywhere that their guilds and mates are leaving just out of boredom. I feel it, lots of my friends feel it, it is actually true. At least lots of them will take a break until it gets better (hopefully). Its really sad

[edited to remove quote]

Pevey

SilverBride wrote: »

There is no quitting ESO epidemic.

This is wishful thinking. I rarely visit these forums anymore. Because I was part of the quitting ESO epidemic. (About 6 weeks sober from destructive ESO addiction, to be specific).

The reason for me was lots of little things that added up to one big realization when the u35 preview hit: When you start feeling mostly negative things in relation to something you are supposedly doing for fun, it’s time to part ways.

I was curious to see how people have responded now that the update has gone live. It’s about as we predicted.

SilverBride

Pevey wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There is no quitting ESO epidemic.

This is wishful thinking. I rarely visit these forums anymore. Because I was part of the quitting ESO epidemic. (About 6 weeks sober from destructive ESO addiction, to be specific).

The reason for me was lots of little things that added up to one big realization when the u35 preview hit: When you start feeling mostly negative things in relation to something you are supposedly doing for fun, it’s time to part ways.

I was curious to see how people have responded now that the update has gone live. It’s about as we predicted.

A small percentage of players quitting isn't an epidemic. I've seen just as many players in game as always and only heard one player even mention the update.

Riptide

Just as a PSA, if you click someone’s profile, there is a little icon in the top right where there is an ignore option.

This is extremely helpful for users who will bait and report you when you lose your temper with them. I’d certainly never direct that advice about any particular person or poster, but in these troubling times people might find it useful in a general sense.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

I think its fair to say that steam charts only show a fraction of the data, but its still data that is hard to dismiss. Certainly concerning. I am curious if anyone remembers off hand what happened in game in April 2020, steam numbers basically doubled in a month and appear to hit their peak.

Do we think that was simply COVID and lots of people with nothing to do? If so, we are basically back to pre COVID numbers, maybe a little down. That would certainly make a lot of sense. Context is important.

Jaraal

SilverBride wrote: »

I've seen just as many players in game as always

Every zone in the game (except Cyrodiil and Imperial City) has different population shards, or instances. We don't know the exact number of players each shard is limited to, and it probably varies from zone to zone. But once an instance is filled with players, a new one is spun up, and is populated until full, and the process repeated.

The effect of this is that there may be (hypothetically) 400 people in Vvardenfell, spread across four instances, at 100 players per instance. Now, if there are 200 players in Vvardenfell, they would be in two instances. 100 players, 1 instance. How does this apply to your statement? Well, if there were 400 players in Vvardenfell every day last month at any given day, but that figure drops to only 100 players per day, then the number of players you actually see does not change.

So visual cues are not a good indicator of player population levels. Unless you get to the point where there are only 50 or 25 players per day in Vvardenfell, and then you might notice the emptiness on a consistent basis.

Auldwulfe

nookji wrote: »

OrkWizard wrote: »

Sad to say after 2 mostly enjoyable years I am no longer interested in playing the game in it's current state. [snip] ZoS as a whole needs to realise when they have made a mistake and hold their hands up, there would have been no shame in scrapping this disaster of an update.

Or just ask the most experienced players of the community for free, but even this will not be done. Then they let test us on PTS to ignore the feedback afterwards. It is so frustrating

@SilverBride yes there is a quitting epidemic. Please if you are not interested in VET/HM content, stop arguing in each single thread against peoples feedback that clearly talk from the effect of U35 regarding endgame content.
Maybe housing fans and solo overland players do not quit, but the majority of players that do like the competition of harder content do and that is just a fact.

The players don't post everywhere that their guilds and mates are leaving just out of boredom. I feel it, lots of my friends feel it, it is actually true. At least lots of them will take a break until it gets better (hopefully). Its really sad

I have to agree- one of my guilds had 331 dedicated people running dungeons --- now, 2 weeks later, there are 48 members .... that's it, and last night, the usual Wednesday Midweek Run -- they cancelled because only 7 people even logged on......

Auldwulfe

[edited to remove quote]

rbfrgsp

Legendry wrote: »

I played several videogames throughout almost 20 years of gaming (yes I am a grownup); and hands down, ESO PvP was the best of all those experiences.

Sensible Soccer is better.

hiyde

Here's some anecdotal info:

Historically, in the two big/busy trade guilds I help run:

A Chapter Launch week would see around 180 concurrent members logged in during primetime. (Well over 200 in older days)
A DLC Launch week would see 150+ peak.

So far this week, since the DLC launch, our busiest of the 2 guilds peaked at 92.
We checked with 15 other trade guilds in busy locations and only one of them passed 100 during primetime. (102)

One of our 2 trading guilds had *0* applications in 3 days. That has never happened before.

I'm not saying it's anything scientific, but these guilds have been around since 2014 and I'm fairly concerned over what I'm seeing this week. Curious to see what weekend numbers look like.

If the game sees a significant exodus, I hope ZOS learned the necessary lessons to alter course for the future. This is a terrific game with a stellar community and I don't see a lot of competition out there to peel away players if this game is in a good state.

barney2525

What is this fictitious " Decent Level " ?

According what I am seeing here, these players want to make One set of Gear and never have to adjust anything ever again. They have reached GN. (Gear Nirvana)

And None of them would stay longer than a year in ESO.... because they would all be BORED TO TEARS.

I have been here 8, going on 9 years. Thats not impressive. Its just a number.

Firstmep

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

The grind for most of the mythic items is simply awful. 0/10

And they will inevitably get nerfed.

I've given up on that too, made so many posts.
Mythic grinds actively create toxic situations especially the shared resource ones, and yet they keep doing it.

imno007b14_ESO

barney2525 wrote: »

What is this fictitious " Decent Level " ?

According what I am seeing here, these players want to make One set of Gear and never have to adjust anything ever again. They have reached GN. (Gear Nirvana)

And None of them would stay longer than a year in ESO.... because they would all be BORED TO TEARS.

I have been here 8, going on 9 years. Thats not impressive. Its just a number.

That's a rather silly conclusion to jump to. No one has said anything about wanting a one-set-fits-all solution that never has to change. But anything can be taken too far, and even too much of a good thing can, well, be a bad thing. Why exactly are you trying to argue that this constant change - and often drastic change, as was the case with this patch - is a good thing? It might be okay for a certain kind of player, someone who plays the game on a mostly casual level on mostly just one or two primary characters, and therefore rarely feels compelled to change too much, because the patches don't much affect the kind of content they habitually play; but I can't imagine that the rest of the player base finds it fun to have quite this level of change forced on them every few months.

Reaver999

hiyde wrote: »

Here's some anecdotal info:

Historically, in the two big/busy trade guilds I help run:

A Chapter Launch week would see around 180 concurrent members logged in during primetime. (Well over 200 in older days)
A DLC Launch week would see 150+ peak.

So far this week, since the DLC launch, our busiest of the 2 guilds peaked at 92.
We checked with 15 other trade guilds in busy locations and only one of them passed 100 during primetime. (102)

One of our 2 trading guilds had *0* applications in 3 days. That has never happened before.

I'm not saying it's anything scientific, but these guilds have been around since 2014 and I'm fairly concerned over what I'm seeing this week. Curious to see what weekend numbers look like.

If the game sees a significant exodus, I hope ZOS learned the necessary lessons to alter course for the future. This is a terrific game with a stellar community and I don't see a lot of competition out there to peel away players if this game is in a good state.

I sell in 3 mournhold traders and have noticed that things that typically sell well when there is a new update aren't selling. Trust me it's not a pricing or experience thing, I know how to sell. Items like glyphs, high end foods used in raids, gold mats, popular gear are just not selling like they used to. I must say it has helped with inflation a bit lol. But I interpret this as people not building or raiding. PvP GH on PC NA que is fairly short during primetime when just a few months ago it was 60+ on a weekday. Now when you get in it is just ball groups and streamers trolling because there is so much imbalance. I believe a lot of veterans are stepping away I can feel it in sales and see it in que times, shorter for PvP and longer for dungeons. I understand MMO's are grindy but it is obviously getting out of hand when people that typically enjoy grindy games start walking away there is a problem. It just isn't worth the time or money sink anymore. It is no longer rewarding in game or as an experience as a whole. This is why I canceled my sub and have downloaded a few other games to try out. I'm sure I'll still play, just don't want to pay for a the experience I'm getting.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Reaver999 wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Here's some anecdotal info:

Historically, in the two big/busy trade guilds I help run:

A Chapter Launch week would see around 180 concurrent members logged in during primetime. (Well over 200 in older days)
A DLC Launch week would see 150+ peak.

So far this week, since the DLC launch, our busiest of the 2 guilds peaked at 92.
We checked with 15 other trade guilds in busy locations and only one of them passed 100 during primetime. (102)

One of our 2 trading guilds had *0* applications in 3 days. That has never happened before.

I'm not saying it's anything scientific, but these guilds have been around since 2014 and I'm fairly concerned over what I'm seeing this week. Curious to see what weekend numbers look like.

If the game sees a significant exodus, I hope ZOS learned the necessary lessons to alter course for the future. This is a terrific game with a stellar community and I don't see a lot of competition out there to peel away players if this game is in a good state.

I sell in 3 mournhold traders and have noticed that things that typically sell well when there is a new update aren't selling. Trust me it's not a pricing or experience thing, I know how to sell. Items like glyphs, high end foods used in raids, gold mats, popular gear are just not selling like they used to. I must say it has helped with inflation a bit lol. But I interpret this as people not building or raiding. PvP GH on PC NA que is fairly short during primetime when just a few months ago it was 60+ on a weekday. Now when you get in it is just ball groups and streamers trolling because there is so much imbalance. I believe a lot of veterans are stepping away I can feel it in sales and see it in que times, shorter for PvP and longer for dungeons. I understand MMO's are grindy but it is obviously getting out of hand when people that typically enjoy grindy games start walking away there is a problem. It just isn't worth the time or money sink anymore. It is no longer rewarding in game or as an experience as a whole. This is why I canceled my sub and have downloaded a few other games to try out. I'm sure I'll still play, just don't want to pay for a the experience I'm getting.

In the simplest terms, inflation in a closed economy like an MMO is caused by more Gold Sources than Gold Sinks. Every time someone leaves ESO, it is technically a gold sink unless they hand out all their money in Craglorn on the way out the door. LOL.

I have never sold crowns, but I did join Tamriel Crown Exchange or whatever its called just to monitor the situation. They have lowered prices twice in the last month or two, which I am never seen. That tells me that there are fewer whales in the ocean.

spartaxoxo

We won't really know how things are until the next update hits. But yes, it doesn't look good.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I think its fair to say that steam charts only show a fraction of the data, but its still data that is hard to dismiss. Certainly concerning. I am curious if anyone remembers off hand what happened in game in April 2020, steam numbers basically doubled in a month and appear to hit their peak.

Do we think that was simply COVID and lots of people with nothing to do? If so, we are basically back to pre COVID numbers, maybe a little down. That would certainly make a lot of sense. Context is important.

Yes, Covid caused a mass influx in this and most games and online services. Same thing happened to Netflix.

Billium813

For me, I think I was looking for an excuse and U35 was a good scape goat reason to take a long break.

For me, High Isle was a real flat note with nothing new or interesting (don't care about the card game and/or oakensoul). It feels like everything, in regards to zone development, was just copy/paste from the previous zones. There are WBs, cities and roads, a new harrowstone-line overland thing, some new dungeons with the same mechanics as old dungeons but mixed around, various mobs around the countryside, new sets with a grab bag of bonuses we'v seen 100 times already, new dungeons that are OK at best, ect. The only "new" thing was the card game and that was a big flat note for me.

I really enjoyed Antiquities loved how it integrated into the whole game (chasing Leads through other zones, providing mythic items, motifs and new items)! I was meh on Companions, but felt that it added a different dimension to the existing game (gear drops, leveling, questing). Tales of Tribute is a minigame that I don't particularly care for and offers no integration into the game. I'm actually glad for that too cause I would hate to be forced to play that game for items.

I just don't feel like beta testing ESO again for several months until they MAYBE fix everything in u36 and in the mean time, I am bored by the current stuff. They need to add some new big attraction or mechanic that isn't just "combat changes to damage and healing". Where is the BlackFlag-esc sailing mechanics they could be adding? Or integrating PvP siege weapons into PvE content? Or creating a new Monk class based on Pyroturge Encratis skillset? Or a new Unarmed skill line with grapples, kicks, and punches? Instead we get a terrible card game, a copy/paste zone with the same old same old content, and a load of beta testing combat changes for the next 2 months. Pass.

ThirdEye_PULSE

Yeah. Since I started playing ESO seriously over 4 years ago i fell in love with the PVP. Out of all the MMOs ive played and even some pvp centric games like Albion Online it was my favorite.

Like you, i am burned out at the pace of the changes in the game. I just cant keep up... especially not as a 31 year old man with a kid turning 1 this month, going to school full time and work part time. This game has effectively made it impossible for me to keep playing. I cant justify spending weeks of my time, sometimes a collective month just to get to a competitive level in pvp after every patch. Its insane.

Ive been playing GW2 since a week before U35 came out and havent logged onto U35 live even once. I simply cant keep up with ESOs pvp competetively with the time I have but i can make a new character and start PVPing competitively in 3 minutes on GW2. Thats definitely busy adult friendly.

I dont understand games that dont value your free time anymore. The gaming generation is getting older. Its deemed an acceptable hobby to have as an adult, as long as your not ignoring your wife and kids in the process for too long. Youd think there are many middle aged gamers like myself in a similar situation.

ESO is an older MMO. There is no reason I can think of for there being drastic balance changes every 3 months. If they would extend that time period to 6 months, get feedback and implement it while also fine tuning the new patch... I dont think i'm alone in saying i'd breathe a sigh of relief and wouldnt think of another game to play for a long time.

I dont think a stagnant game is good. I also dont think a game that is churning out changes on a 3 month period is healthy either. Your narrowing the amount of people that can play your game by a large margin. Especially the ones that want to compete and don't have a lot of time.

Either way, your not gonna lose your casuals. Whether you make balance changes every 3 months or 6 months, the majority of them will keep playing. All your doing is making your end game pvp and pve players quit.

Im what you might call a "competitive casual". I like getting my builds completed after a patch, with several swing options and on days I dont have a lot of time ill simply log onto a BG to unwind and let go of some stress.

Nariyna

So I would be considered a casual or middle of the road player. I canceled my subscription, its not very fun having 30% of your DPS vaporized, and the new Templar jab looks like I am digging in the garden. I still have time on my sub, I'll log in and collect the trinkets, but when the time is up, that's it. As for zone chat NA, about U35 it was on fire from the hate of U35 (HUGE MISTAKE on ZOS part). Just disheartening.

Toxic_Hemlock

Extreme casual here, and I just want to ask one question to the devs...

What was so wrong with pre 35 that you needed to gut 99% of my enjoyment from the game?

I have enjoyed your game for a couple years, but taking twice as long to kill trash now is the reason I left other games!

Carcamongus

People quit all the time and others replace them. The problem is when devs take the game through a shaky path full of holes for a long time, the result might be a net loss in player numbers. If that happens, the company would have a few options: switch to a course of its choosing, do nothing or switch to a course after listening to their players.

We don't know how their decision-making process works and on that I make two considerations: it's probably not so simple that listening to feedback and acting upon it is straightforward and that creates tensions with players, who can't understand why devs keep ignoring them or taking too long to acknowledge input; maybe the process itself isn't working as well as it used to, a result, perhaps, of past successes having led to complacency, the people who call the shots not being the ones who actually bother to interact with us or some other problem that's out of sight for us.

I don't know what's going on through the devs' minds, but I do hope they take the time to reflect on what's been happening, on how negative feedback has been and, also important, do more to bridge the gap between themselves and players. We can do our part by respectfully saying what we think is wrong. Criticism can be tiresome to read, but dread the moment it stops entirely.

Auldwulfe

Ok, my subscription is currently cancelled, but that is because I ALWAYS cancel right after I sub on anything -- I hate auto-renewal. I am old, and I forget things, and suddenly having a charge for a game that I forgot was going to renew on a specific month is annoying to budget around.

That said, whenever I get a renewal notice, I go through some steps -- first I always ask myself "am I having fun with that?"
Right now, yes, even with the U35 dumpster fire, I am still having fun exploring, and since I am a semi-rp style player, I am adapting.
Then I ask, is the value worth the cost .... and for me, that value includes having guilds or people to chat with, and RP with --- and since one of the guilds I loved has gone from 331 members to 48, over the last 2 weeks, due to U35 -- there is a question there .... so we'll see. I have a month before this latest sub expires, and we'll see if ESO gets that money, or if another game does.
I have plenty of games ... my limit is budget.

Auldwulfe

fizzylu

The problem with saying that new players will replace the people who quit is that on average, new players are probably the ones that leave most often. People dive into new games, stick around for a month, and then never touch it again all the time. This year alone I've had three friends try out ESO and play for a week just to end up never logging in again. In my old guild, I would recruit new players all the time. Most would be active for two or three months and surprise haha next thing you know they haven't logged in for another two or three months. Of course some stick around and commit.... but not to the point of outweighing the loss of long time, veteran players; which is never good for the health of a game for many reasons other than just the body count. Again like other's have said, the game might not die.... but it will definitely suffer and take a while for it to bounce back, if it even manages to do so.