Maintenance for the week of January 5:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 5
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• PC/Mac: No maintenance – January 5
• NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
Notes on the Quitting ESO epidemic.
-
Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Frankly with how U35 nerfed the very people ZoS claimed over and over that they were helping access harder content I not convinced the devs actually know why their decisions nerfed players in general in U35.
They admitted that they didn't know the complete changes U35 would have until after they went live with it. So apparently part of it is actually guesswork. However, they had six weeks of testing by players, and players telling them how things were going to be based upon actual experience.
Take for example Mara's Balm. They were told from the start that the set was broken and how it would be broken. Yet they pushed it out anyway. And then the day after it went live, they told us it would be nerfed on the first incremental. Meanwhile, there is an unkillable tank plague infecting Cyrodiil, and pieces of the set are selling for millions of gold to players who KNOW it's going to be nerfed in a week.
How does that look?32 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »You are looking at peak, not average, players for the day. The peak can more easily be skewed as it is a very short-term measurement.
Also, the more worthy comparison is comparing the same month across years as it eliminates seasonal fluctuations. That is how business people and analysts look at such information. Even then, I go back to 2019 to eliminate the peak that came with COVID since we expected a decline over time as things got back to a new normal. That puts ESO on an even keel which, while not bad, does not have the growth they were dealing with. Also, while less of a drop, ESO did see a drop in August 2019 numbers from the previous month of July, though not as big.
In addition, the comparison is between a Monday and a Friday, maybe ESO players DO have a life and tend to go out on Fridays? What were the numbers like the previous Friday?
And it's August, people will be going on holiday... and not everyone sees a holiday as a chance to play the game 24/7.
There could be all kinds of reasons for variations, not least the time it takes for people to download the update and the fact that many people choose not to go into the game immediately following an update because the game can be a little flaky.
Very good points. Especially since the comparison was between two different days of the week. For the same reason why a business analyst would compare the same month across years to eliminate seasonal fluctuations such as peak vacation times, they would not compare two different days of the week to measure any impact changes would have.
“Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.” Mark Twain
4 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »It's not the players doing easy content who are the ones complaining that it is too easy.
End game players don't care about overland and normal dungeon difficulty because overland will never be challenging after running content like Rockgrove and if it was challenging to us then the casual player base would evaporate if it wasn't an optional difficulty. The combat changes were not due to end game players saying anything needs to be more difficult because we get our difficulty in vet trials. Frankly with how U35 nerfed the very people ZoS claimed over and over that they were helping access harder content I not convinced the devs actually know why their decisions nerfed players in general in U35.
There are 129 pages in the pinned overland thread full of end game players asking for a veteran version of overland.PCNA2 -
Toxic_Hemlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭alternatelder wrote: »Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »Extreme casual here, and I just want to ask one question to the devs...
What was so wrong with pre 35 that you needed to gut 99% of my enjoyment from the game?
I have enjoyed your game for a couple years, but taking twice as long to kill trash now is the reason I left other games!
Extreme casual with 2500 forum visits...90% of the content is pretty relaxing gameplay. I'm barely seeing a difference, if any, in my solo play. I'm seeing the same result from many others. How did this update kill 99% of your enjoyment?
Took while getting back to you as I don't read these forums often anymore.
To answer: Well for one, even the mudcrabs require a few hits to kill now. I do the occasional easy dungeon solo and the spiders are taking me twice (thrice?) as long and I may as well go for coffee when fighting a boss with pale rider; hence boring. I went back to the pale rider/wild hunt combo; even though I don't switch bars I hate being slow/dying. I can't and won't speak for everyone but all I do now is crafting and log out only because I still feel an obligation to my trading guild. I may have been a bit hyperbolic on the overall number, but at the end of the day I am not enjoying the ESO combat any longer.
I guess my point is and was if you and "many others" are enjoying yourself have at it, and more power to you. As for myself, I'm playing other stuff now and just waiting until my sub runs out.21 -
UnabashedlyHonest✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Not taking part in something doesn't mean I don't know anything about it. ......
Actually, not taking part in any given content literally does mean you know less about that content and what it takes to complete it than the people who do participate in and complete that content.
Someone who's never gone scuba diving knows much less about scuba diving than someone who's been diving for years. That's how experience works. Someone with first hand experience knows way more about any given activity than someone with no first hand experience doing that activity.
This is what I said in it's entirety:
Not taking part in something doesn't mean I don't know anything about it. I was an avid raider in other MMOS and know what it takes to succeed at end game. I just have no desire to do it any more. I've also done a lot of PvP in the past.
You are trying to claim that because you've played other games that you know how everything works in this game. That's not how things work. It's not a rational claim to make. If you don't have first hand experience with the end game, hardest content in ESO then you don't know how that content works or the effects of U35 on the players who actually do play that content.
44 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Frankly with how U35 nerfed the very people ZoS claimed over and over that they were helping access harder content I not convinced the devs actually know why their decisions nerfed players in general in U35.
They admitted that they didn't know the complete changes U35 would have until after they went live with it.
How does that look?
Oh my, that's as bad as when I heard a congressman say "we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it." That's actually a case study in how not to properly balance a complex game and case in point on why I was saying changes of this scope needed a 3-6 month PTS cycle at a minimum to identify all of the secondary and tertiary follow on effects of these changes. This game hasn't been in beta for 8 years and it's not an early access title, this shouldn't be the method employed by professional developers.20 -
Toxic_Hemlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Frankly with how U35 nerfed the very people ZoS claimed over and over that they were helping access harder content I not convinced the devs actually know why their decisions nerfed players in general in U35.
They admitted that they didn't know the complete changes U35 would have until after they went live with it.
How does that look?
Oh my, that's as bad as when I heard a congressman say "we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it." That's actually a case study in how not to properly balance a complex game and case in point on why I was saying changes of this scope needed a 3-6 month PTS cycle at a minimum to identify all of the secondary and tertiary follow on effects of these changes. This game hasn't been in beta for 8 years and it's not an early access title, this shouldn't be the method employed by professional developers.
Well I guess you can't warrant having a balance team on the payroll if they don't spend their days "balancing" the hell out of the game!Edited by Toxic_Hemlock on August 27, 2022 4:22PM7 -
Kingsindarkness✭✭✭✭✭Looking at this entire thread...it's sorta all over the place. There really is no one thing people are upset about, I don't think it will really get much attention because it will be viewed as basic background noise.
My real life job is in research, I literally find out what certain groups like and dislike for a living.
Please don't shoot the messenger I am a neutral party and have sympathy for all sides here,, but...
After spending a few hours looking back through the forums and watching Youtube and Twitch this is what I have learned....
There is a group of about twenty five to thirty people on the forums who are really upset (even sad/depressed) about Update 35, and they are working really hard to convince the developers to effect change, they must really love the game (or at least their favorite activity which is High End Raiding) because they have become a cohesive group that suggest deliberation and coordination off site. They are determined despite suggestions of leaving the game to right the ship so to speak by any reasonable means.
There is a even smaller group of PVP players, the last patch effects them though not nearly as much...still they have much sympathy for the previous group but still feels as though they are invisible in game and on the forums, still they hold out hope that if the last patch is fixed they can go back trying to get attention about their issues
The rest is all over the place, this is a much larger group of people that range from people who just don't really like ESO and feel that if it Closes Bethesda will release TES VI faster, to folks who dislike Trade guilds to everything in between.
The problem is that when all of this is put together on the forums it looks like noise...and technical types turn off when they are faced with a wall of noise. The question is how should the most cohesive group out of all of this communicate their issues without just being part of the noise wall?
One way would be if all Stream team members start talking about the same thing...of course that isn't going to happen because only a few of them are into just hard core raiding, and it seems that those who are have the least viewership....
Honestly I really don't have a answer to this...as I said I find out what type of people like and dislike a certain thing....I collate data and pass it along...I'm sorta a one trick pony that way...but I hope my research will help people understand what side of the pool they are in at least.
There will be folks that disagree with my findings and might even get angry because they believe their tribe is much larger or what not...the only thing I can say is I used the eight steps of research and followed the scientific method as closely as possible for just a few hours...I could stretch out research time...but I don't think the wall of noise conclusion will change.
Anyway I hope this helps even if in a small way.11 -
rexagamemnon✭✭✭✭✭
✭1) i think the “resume” is irrelevant. And not meaning to insult you, but its not impressive. “Resumes” like that are a nickle a dozen. Even if it was the devs don't care about it. I’m a 32yr old grown up with 2kids, another on the way, and a mortgage, and pays all his bills and ive been playing eso on xbox since december 2015. ESO launched on console in 2015. They don’t care about “resumes” or take them into consideration when they “listen” to the community.
Now that i got that point out of the way, …
2) you are spot on about everything else. Unfortunately in the 7years ive been playing i rarely see the devs take player feedback into consideration outside of the crownstore and QoL improvements that do not effect combat in anyway.
2 -
Northwold✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Kingsindarkness wrote: »Looking at this entire thread...it's sorta all over the place. There really is no one thing people are upset about, I don't think it will really get much attention because it will be viewed as basic background noise.
My real life job is in research, I literally find out what certain groups like and dislike for a living.
Please don't shoot the messenger I am a neutral party and have sympathy for all sides here,, but...
After spending a few hours looking back through the forums and watching Youtube and Twitch this is what I have learned....
There is a group of about twenty five to thirty people on the forums who are really upset (even sad/depressed) about Update 35, and they are working really hard to convince the developers to effect change, they must really love the game (or at least their favorite activity which is High End Raiding) because they have become a cohesive group that suggest deliberation and coordination off site. They are determined despite suggestions of leaving the game to right the ship so to speak by any reasonable means.
There is a even smaller group of PVP players, the last patch effects them though not nearly as much...still they have much sympathy for the previous group but still feels as though they are invisible in game and on the forums, still they hold out hope that if the last patch is fixed they can go back trying to get attention about their issues
The rest is all over the place, this is a much larger group of people that range from people who just don't really like ESO and feel that if it Closes Bethesda will release TES VI faster, to folks who dislike Trade guilds to everything in between.
The problem is that when all of this is put together on the forums it looks like noise...and technical types turn off when they are faced with a wall of noise. The question is how should the most cohesive group out of all of this communicate their issues without just being part of the noise wall?
One way would be if all Stream team members start talking about the same thing...of course that isn't going to happen because only a few of them are into just hard core raiding, and it seems that those who are have the least viewership....
Honestly I really don't have a answer to this...as I said I find out what type of people like and dislike a certain thing....I collate data and pass it along...I'm sorta a one trick pony that way...but I hope my research will help people understand what side of the pool they are in at least.
There will be folks that disagree with my findings and might even get angry because they believe their tribe is much larger or what not...the only thing I can say is I used the eight steps of research and followed the scientific method as closely as possible for just a few hours...I could stretch out research time...but I don't think the wall of noise conclusion will change.
Anyway I hope this helps even if in a small way.
Yes. This forum is not representative and too often people mistake the same people shouting loudly over and over again for "the playerbase" more generally when it is less obviously "the playerbase" than a small group talking to themselves. We see this also with the howls that the most ultra hardcore players here -- all 100 of them -- must by definition be key to ESO's survival and their every desire must therefore be pandered to because it is inconceivable that other players might like different things. They, and only they, are "the fans" and "the community".
So I'm quite happy to talk about the quitting "epidemic". But as soon as posters point the finger and say "it can only be because of this [insert bugbear here]" I have to laugh.
By the very nature of this forum and who uses it, if there *is* a quitting epidemic you can more or less guarantee that it isn't driven by what the loudest voices on this forum pin it to.Edited by Northwold on August 27, 2022 6:55PM3 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭AUGUST is a major vacation month.
It's been a tough few years for many people irl.
Inflation, supply chain, economic income flux, game change fatigue...
no quick or easy answers to these fluctuations. It's a combination of factors.
Many new mmos that were on the shelf due to COVID are coming out this year-- people are excited to try new games.
Pre-Covid when everyone thought Ashes was about to come out, then... postponed, etc, etc, etc.
Remember the rush to NEW WORLD? ELDEN RING? Classic WoW? Now FFIV 6???
A lot of prominent content creators-influencers using high-octane fear/negative vibe clickbait titles also further fuel the community angst. Online negativity gets higher ratings & $$.
Many of them get paid to steer/push people who might be undecidely on their time/$$ comitment to ESO atm to invest in the other games in which those streamers/content creators plan to invest their time.
That's their $$ reality--that's their right.
I still see alot of players in zones, in Craglorn forming pug trial groups. Faction capital cities are busy. Friends are doing new vet content. Some are off on irl vacations, etc. but are still vested in the game.
A lot of the end game gear HAS NOT CHANGED THAT MUCH.
I see many prominent content creators/streamers still out there making new builds for PvE endgame with 100+ DPS, etc.
using many of the same pre-Update 35 'meta' sets they used in Update 34...
My guilds are about the same level of activity as last year August & in previous years. PC/NA server runs decent now re lag, fps for many of us.
Yes, yes.. I know, the same round of problem areas need to be addressed but, performance is most definitely improved in Cyrodiil.
Many well known content creators have voiced their legitimate concerns both pro and con re UPDATE 35 on PTS when it was most needed!
ZOS listened and made adjustments.
Update 35, as it is now, on LIVE PC/Mac is mostly a good patch in in its current state.
Many content creators have been working hard on solid build updates and streaming quality content since the U35 dropped on Monday, all whilst maintaining a positive, yet, realistic vibe.
Here is a partial list of some of the ESO's content creators & their recent streams/builds that I've enjoyed & shared with guild mates and friends:
Alcast
CURSE- Powerful Magicka Necromancer Build for ESO – Damage Dealer DPS
https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-necromancer-build-pve/
Arzyel Gaming
Magicka Hybrid Dragonknight DPS PVE Build - Fireblade - Lost Depths
https://youtu.be/XLwJzNFT5MM
Charles
Magicka Templar | 128k+ DPS PvE build | ESO - Lost Depth
https://youtu.be/qKSzDI2YItg
Deltia's Gaming
Day 1 of Lost Depths PvE and PvP for ESO
https://youtu.be/VgPz47_IbhQ
Dottzgaming (&Pelle412)
MAGICKA TEMPLAR PVE BUILD ESO – RADIANT JUSTICE
https://dottzgaming.com/build/radiant-justice-magicka-templar-pve-build/
Eigh1 Puppies
125K Stamina Necromancer ESO | Lost Depths | Comprehensive Guide for PvE
https://youtu.be/Wl-RikYX5Pk
Hack The Minotaur
Werewolf Is Actually GOOD Again?! The BIG Buff Coming In ESO Update 35!
https://youtu.be/3sWzpdr0Fvk
Jedi Council
Veteran Dreadsail Reef vDSR (U35) ESO Jedi Council Random Run Stamcro DPS Perspective Solo Portalhttps://youtu.be/Z7EiqC_T2CY
JHartEllis
ESO !drops | Thursday: Dungeons, Tribute, and Dailies
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1573513007
Lucky Ghost
https://eso.justlootit.com
Maty Gon
Tipsy Trials Thursday
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1572683730
Ninja614
12 Hour Subathon Marathon WHEEE
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1572445258
OfficiallyIffy
Jet + Van.... That is all.... as you were!
https://www.twitch.tv/officiallyiffy
Skinny Cheeks
New Dungeons on HM w/ my Oakensoul Magicka Sorcerer| Crown + High Isle Giveaways! | https://www.twitch.tv/skinnycheeks/video/1569301374
Unfading Silence
ESO Magicka NightBlade Bomber - Update 35 - Lost Depths - PvP
https://youtu.be/-QmBOu5TdiY
Unified_Gaming
1 Bar PVP Magicka Sorcerer is nuts! High Isle
https://youtu.be/cPSY_VlLmCo
XYnode
ESO - The EASY SORC PVE Sorcerer build is BACK to it's ROOTS! - The Lost Depths Update!
https://youtu.be/3jPk6VTQNzU
Whether you decide to take a break, play other games as well, leave the game,
OR decide to stay in ESO, play hard, help rebuild our community in a more positive direction—welcome & mentor our newer/returning players…
I hope you have fun. I wish you all PEACE!
Enjoy your summer, keto
Content creators made vids =/= sign of everything is a-ok as there are various reasons why they'd still make videos on ESO even if they don't play the game as often.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel20 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭alternatelder wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »There is no quitting ESO epidemic.
This is wishful thinking. I rarely visit these forums anymore. Because I was part of the quitting ESO epidemic. (About 6 weeks sober from destructive ESO addiction, to be specific).
The reason for me was lots of little things that added up to one big realization when the u35 preview hit: When you start feeling mostly negative things in relation to something you are supposedly doing for fun, it’s time to part ways.
I was curious to see how people have responded now that the update has gone live. It’s about as we predicted.
The only wishful thinking is the loud minority claiming the playerbase is being emptied and that it will make Zos shift to reverse.
Many fewer people care at this point whether ZOS reverses course. That’s where we are now. [shrug]2 -
Blutengel✭✭✭All my motivation to do pve with my characters ended with AwA. I still have one I do everything with but the continuity with my alts are nightmare. This patch ended pvp at least for the next 3 months..Time for reckless audacity and derring-do!~
Crow-Friend Warden
Najara the Crusader Templar
Thomasin the Witch Necro
R.I.P Vet ranks...10 -
UnabashedlyHonest✭✭✭✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »AUGUST is a major vacation month.
It's been a tough few years for many people irl.
Inflation, supply chain, economic income flux, game change fatigue...
no quick or easy answers to these fluctuations. It's a combination of factors.
Many new mmos that were on the shelf due to COVID are coming out this year-- people are excited to try new games.
Pre-Covid when everyone thought Ashes was about to come out, then... postponed, etc, etc, etc.
Remember the rush to NEW WORLD? ELDEN RING? Classic WoW? Now FFIV 6???
A lot of prominent content creators-influencers using high-octane fear/negative vibe clickbait titles also further fuel the community angst. Online negativity gets higher ratings & $$.
Many of them get paid to steer/push people who might be undecidely on their time/$$ comitment to ESO atm to invest in the other games in which those streamers/content creators plan to invest their time.
That's their $$ reality--that's their right.
I still see alot of players in zones, in Craglorn forming pug trial groups. Faction capital cities are busy. Friends are doing new vet content. Some are off on irl vacations, etc. but are still vested in the game.
A lot of the end game gear HAS NOT CHANGED THAT MUCH.
I see many prominent content creators/streamers still out there making new builds for PvE endgame with 100+ DPS, etc.
using many of the same pre-Update 35 'meta' sets they used in Update 34...
My guilds are about the same level of activity as last year August & in previous years. PC/NA server runs decent now re lag, fps for many of us.
Yes, yes.. I know, the same round of problem areas need to be addressed but, performance is most definitely improved in Cyrodiil.
Many well known content creators have voiced their legitimate concerns both pro and con re UPDATE 35 on PTS when it was most needed!
ZOS listened and made adjustments.
Update 35, as it is now, on LIVE PC/Mac is mostly a good patch in in its current state.
Many content creators have been working hard on solid build updates and streaming quality content since the U35 dropped on Monday, all whilst maintaining a positive, yet, realistic vibe.
Here is a partial list of some of the ESO's content creators & their recent streams/builds that I've enjoyed & shared with guild mates and friends:
Alcast
CURSE- Powerful Magicka Necromancer Build for ESO – Damage Dealer DPS
https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-necromancer-build-pve/
Arzyel Gaming
Magicka Hybrid Dragonknight DPS PVE Build - Fireblade - Lost Depths
https://youtu.be/XLwJzNFT5MM
Charles
Magicka Templar | 128k+ DPS PvE build | ESO - Lost Depth
https://youtu.be/qKSzDI2YItg
Deltia's Gaming
Day 1 of Lost Depths PvE and PvP for ESO
https://youtu.be/VgPz47_IbhQ
Dottzgaming (&Pelle412)
MAGICKA TEMPLAR PVE BUILD ESO – RADIANT JUSTICE
https://dottzgaming.com/build/radiant-justice-magicka-templar-pve-build/
Eigh1 Puppies
125K Stamina Necromancer ESO | Lost Depths | Comprehensive Guide for PvE
https://youtu.be/Wl-RikYX5Pk
Hack The Minotaur
Werewolf Is Actually GOOD Again?! The BIG Buff Coming In ESO Update 35!
https://youtu.be/3sWzpdr0Fvk
Jedi Council
Veteran Dreadsail Reef vDSR (U35) ESO Jedi Council Random Run Stamcro DPS Perspective Solo Portalhttps://youtu.be/Z7EiqC_T2CY
JHartEllis
ESO !drops | Thursday: Dungeons, Tribute, and Dailies
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1573513007
Lucky Ghost
https://eso.justlootit.com
Maty Gon
Tipsy Trials Thursday
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1572683730
Ninja614
12 Hour Subathon Marathon WHEEE
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1572445258
OfficiallyIffy
Jet + Van.... That is all.... as you were!
https://www.twitch.tv/officiallyiffy
Skinny Cheeks
New Dungeons on HM w/ my Oakensoul Magicka Sorcerer| Crown + High Isle Giveaways! | https://www.twitch.tv/skinnycheeks/video/1569301374
Unfading Silence
ESO Magicka NightBlade Bomber - Update 35 - Lost Depths - PvP
https://youtu.be/-QmBOu5TdiY
Unified_Gaming
1 Bar PVP Magicka Sorcerer is nuts! High Isle
https://youtu.be/cPSY_VlLmCo
XYnode
ESO - The EASY SORC PVE Sorcerer build is BACK to it's ROOTS! - The Lost Depths Update!
https://youtu.be/3jPk6VTQNzU
Whether you decide to take a break, play other games as well, leave the game,
OR decide to stay in ESO, play hard, help rebuild our community in a more positive direction—welcome & mentor our newer/returning players…
I hope you have fun. I wish you all PEACE!
Enjoy your summer, keto
Content creators made vids =/= sign of everything is a-ok as there are various reasons why they'd still make videos on ESO even if they don't play the game as often.
Almost every one of those links was produced PRIOR to U35.12 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Ragnarok0130 wrote: »Frankly with how U35 nerfed the very people ZoS claimed over and over that they were helping access harder content I not convinced the devs actually know why their decisions nerfed players in general in U35.
They admitted that they didn't know the complete changes U35 would have until after they went live with it.
How does that look?
Oh my, that's as bad as when I heard a congressman say "we have to pass the bill to find out what's in it." That's actually a case study in how not to properly balance a complex game and case in point on why I was saying changes of this scope needed a 3-6 month PTS cycle at a minimum to identify all of the secondary and tertiary follow on effects of these changes. This game hasn't been in beta for 8 years and it's not an early access title, this shouldn't be the method employed by professional developers.
Well I guess you can't warrant having a balance team on the payroll if they don't spend their days "balancing" the hell out of the game!
^THIS! It's called 'job justification'... and if you don't give them something to do, they might start looking elsewhere for a job, and right now there is a huge demand for devs out there. I've said this same thing before, wondering if they constantly have to make changes just to give their devs something to do... instead of accepting that the game is in a great state and doesn't need any massive changes, just minor tweaks here and there. BUT, apparently you cannot continue paying devs to just sit around doing nothing.CP: 2078 ** ESO+ 2025 Content Pass ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025~~3 -
keto3000✭✭✭False. They are all since Update 35. Go see for yourself.UnabashedlyHonest wrote: »IZZEFlameLash wrote: »AUGUST is a major vacation month.
It's been a tough few years for many people irl.
Inflation, supply chain, economic income flux, game change fatigue...
no quick or easy answers to these fluctuations. It's a combination of factors.
Many new mmos that were on the shelf due to COVID are coming out this year-- people are excited to try new games.
Pre-Covid when everyone thought Ashes was about to come out, then... postponed, etc, etc, etc.
Remember the rush to NEW WORLD? ELDEN RING? Classic WoW? Now FFIV 6???
A lot of prominent content creators-influencers using high-octane fear/negative vibe clickbait titles also further fuel the community angst. Online negativity gets higher ratings & $$.
Many of them get paid to steer/push people who might be undecidely on their time/$$ comitment to ESO atm to invest in the other games in which those streamers/content creators plan to invest their time.
That's their $$ reality--that's their right.
I still see alot of players in zones, in Craglorn forming pug trial groups. Faction capital cities are busy. Friends are doing new vet content. Some are off on irl vacations, etc. but are still vested in the game.
A lot of the end game gear HAS NOT CHANGED THAT MUCH.
I see many prominent content creators/streamers still out there making new builds for PvE endgame with 100+ DPS, etc.
using many of the same pre-Update 35 'meta' sets they used in Update 34...
My guilds are about the same level of activity as last year August & in previous years. PC/NA server runs decent now re lag, fps for many of us.
Yes, yes.. I know, the same round of problem areas need to be addressed but, performance is most definitely improved in Cyrodiil.
Many well known content creators have voiced their legitimate concerns both pro and con re UPDATE 35 on PTS when it was most needed!
ZOS listened and made adjustments.
Update 35, as it is now, on LIVE PC/Mac is mostly a good patch in in its current state.
Many content creators have been working hard on solid build updates and streaming quality content since the U35 dropped on Monday, all whilst maintaining a positive, yet, realistic vibe.
Here is a partial list of some of the ESO's content creators & their recent streams/builds that I've enjoyed & shared with guild mates and friends:
Alcast
CURSE- Powerful Magicka Necromancer Build for ESO – Damage Dealer DPS
https://alcasthq.com/eso-magicka-necromancer-build-pve/
Arzyel Gaming
Magicka Hybrid Dragonknight DPS PVE Build - Fireblade - Lost Depths
https://youtu.be/XLwJzNFT5MM
Charles
Magicka Templar | 128k+ DPS PvE build | ESO - Lost Depth
https://youtu.be/qKSzDI2YItg
Deltia's Gaming
Day 1 of Lost Depths PvE and PvP for ESO
https://youtu.be/VgPz47_IbhQ
Dottzgaming (&Pelle412)
MAGICKA TEMPLAR PVE BUILD ESO – RADIANT JUSTICE
https://dottzgaming.com/build/radiant-justice-magicka-templar-pve-build/
Eigh1 Puppies
125K Stamina Necromancer ESO | Lost Depths | Comprehensive Guide for PvE
https://youtu.be/Wl-RikYX5Pk
Hack The Minotaur
Werewolf Is Actually GOOD Again?! The BIG Buff Coming In ESO Update 35!
https://youtu.be/3sWzpdr0Fvk
Jedi Council
Veteran Dreadsail Reef vDSR (U35) ESO Jedi Council Random Run Stamcro DPS Perspective Solo Portalhttps://youtu.be/Z7EiqC_T2CY
JHartEllis
ESO !drops | Thursday: Dungeons, Tribute, and Dailies
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1573513007
Lucky Ghost
https://eso.justlootit.com
Maty Gon
Tipsy Trials Thursday
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1572683730
Ninja614
12 Hour Subathon Marathon WHEEE
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1572445258
OfficiallyIffy
Jet + Van.... That is all.... as you were!
https://www.twitch.tv/officiallyiffy
Skinny Cheeks
New Dungeons on HM w/ my Oakensoul Magicka Sorcerer| Crown + High Isle Giveaways! | https://www.twitch.tv/skinnycheeks/video/1569301374
Unfading Silence
ESO Magicka NightBlade Bomber - Update 35 - Lost Depths - PvP
https://youtu.be/-QmBOu5TdiY
Unified_Gaming
1 Bar PVP Magicka Sorcerer is nuts! High Isle
https://youtu.be/cPSY_VlLmCo
XYnode
ESO - The EASY SORC PVE Sorcerer build is BACK to it's ROOTS! - The Lost Depths Update!
https://youtu.be/3jPk6VTQNzU
Whether you decide to take a break, play other games as well, leave the game,
OR decide to stay in ESO, play hard, help rebuild our community in a more positive direction—welcome & mentor our newer/returning players…
I hope you have fun. I wish you all PEACE!
Enjoy your summer, keto
Content creators made vids =/= sign of everything is a-ok as there are various reasons why they'd still make videos on ESO even if they don't play the game as often.
Almost every one of those links was produced PRIOR to U35.
Edited by keto3000 on August 28, 2022 12:49PM“The point of power is always in the present moment.”
― Louise L. Hay1 -
On this part I wish that they would instead invest more heavily in two things:^THIS! It's called 'job justification'... and if you don't give them something to do, they might start looking elsewhere for a job, and right now there is a huge demand for devs out there. I've said this same thing before, wondering if they constantly have to make changes just to give their devs something to do... instead of accepting that the game is in a great state and doesn't need any massive changes, just minor tweaks here and there. BUT, apparently you cannot continue paying devs to just sit around doing nothing.
1) fix long standing bugs (e.g., the missing shown circle in Moon Hunter Keep HM which has a high chance to break the trifecta unless you are able to nuke the boss without having to play this mechanic, resetting bosses)
2) be more careful with the balancing of new sets and items (e.g., the kilt at release and maras balm right now) which always are significantly overpowered at release even though the feedback usually during PTS is "uhm, unbalanced?!"
I mean it is great that they work on fixing issues with the card game (incl. a hotfix if things like the leaderboard don't work), but what about the other bugs? The fix which I celebrated most was that I could finally get the last achievement from Isobel, a bug open since release of the region 3 months back.
So if the people working on the extreme rebalancing could instead work on addressing actual defects, that would be really appreciated from my side...
14 -
mpicklesster✭✭✭✭mpicklesster wrote: »Anyway--I'd say a 20% drop in 4 days isn't...good? That's 1/5 of their player base (at least according to Steam).You are looking at peak, not average, players for the day. The peak can more easily be skewed as it is a very short-term measurement.
Neither Steam nor ZOS release average player count per day. So the next best thing we can do is "guesstimate" rate of change. If we want to do that, then we just have to measure comparable points in the curvature of the data. Hence why I said in my original post "For sinusoidal data like that, you just have to make sure you analyze only the peaks or only the valleys if you want to measure rate of change without having to bring trigonometry into the mix."Also, the more worthy comparison is comparing the same month across years as it eliminates seasonal fluctuations.
This type of seasonal analysis is also sometimes called a quasi-experimental analysis. While I understand the logic behind it, it's actually not as robust of a technique as you might believe. One of the core assumptions of a quasi-experimental analysis is that the 2 time periods you're analyzing differ by only 1 variable (in this case, it would be the addition of Update 35). Then, when you analyze the difference between the 2, you can rest assured that any quantitative difference is due to the variable or interest (e.g., Update 35). However, if the 2 time periods differ by more than 1 variable, then the results are confounded and a quasi-experimental analysis is uninterpretable. This is why such analyses are not as robust as people like to believe. The farther apart 2 periods of time are, the more variables by which they differ.
In fact, rarely ever is a quasi-experimental analysis done on time periods that differ by only 1 variable. So, more often than not, the results are confounded. But, for some reason, quasi-experimental analyses are deemed permissible in many circles outside of academia. (Perhaps because they offer a false sense of security? Perhaps because many intro stats courses don't do a good enough job teaching about the assumptions of such analyses? I can't say for sure. Perhaps all of the above?) I will conceded that, in some cases, you can try to deconfound the results by following up with an analysis of covariance. However, that requires you have the luxury of actual, measurable data on the variable(s) that you think might be confounding the results (e.g., the increase in play time purely due to the pandemic last year). But data on those types of variables are rarely ever available. Hence why it's often practically impossible to deconfound a quasi-experimental analysis (unless you design your study at the outset to measure variables that would likely confound the results).
TL; DR: Quasi-experimental analyses aren't as robust as one might believe because, more often than not, we violate their assumptions. As a result, doing a quasi-experimental analysis would be a fruitless, uninterpretable pursuit in this case. Besides, the most salient question right now is about change on a more local time scale (i.e., "Has ESO activity changed since the release of U35?"). Therefore, it makes the most sense to analyze change since the day of U35.6 -
stevenyaub16_ESO✭✭✭✭There is no exodus. Only people leaving are the ones doing the latest 2 trial Hardmodes. So about 50-100 people. Nothing to impact the game with.8 -
martinhpb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Had ESO+ since 2014
Just cancelled it, main reasons being:
Abysmal performance in Cyrodiil EU
I was really hoping for some vet Overland but its never coming
Troll sets like DC, Maras and gated op mythics that homogenise pvp
Stopped running trials because guilds faded away
Endless meta ping-pong that ZOS said they would slow down but didn't.
U35, the straw that broke the camels back, and solidarity with my fellow players who have been negatively affected.
CiaoEdited by martinhpb16_ESO on August 28, 2022 9:59PMAt least the spelling is difficult for you.
Hew's Bane*29 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭mpicklesster wrote: »[snip]
You're still comparing Mondays to Fridays...
I know it's only anecdotal, but I tend to go out more on Friday night than on Monday night. Were you to plot pub usage from Monday to Friday I suppose you'd think there was a massive positive PubUpgrade that landed on Thursday leading to increased booziness on Friday compared to Monday. No, it's just the weekend.
And particularly this weekend, because it's a national holiday on Monday in the UK and the weather has been superb. I don't play via Steam but if I did you'd see a massive drop in my game play, simply because the weather is great and I've been out socializing! As casuals are inclined to do
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 28, 2022 5:37PM0 -
SteamKitten01✭✭✭Here's some numbers from project Vitality. At it's peak, there were 226 raid leads across all 6 platforms with a lot of raids being hosted. This number has dropped to around 60 raid leads. If that's not a significant drop for the end game community, I don't know what is. There has been a significant reduction in the number of raids being hosted as well since U35 was announced but I don't have hard numbers on that.
On a personal note, there are at least a couple of people on my friends list that have stopped playing due to U35 and an even larger number that have cancelled their ESO+ subscriptions and are debating whether to stay or go when their subs run out.SteamKitten01- GM of The Traveling Torchbug (PC/NA)23 -
TempusFugit✭✭✭Not to defend or belittle anyone else's posts, because each of them comes from the heart. But just to share my thoughts, that if a game gets to feel stale, feels disheartening, or not fun anymore, for whatever reason, then it is time to take a break from it, and come back later to check it out.
After a while in any game, things just seem repetitive, lackluster and any changes are harder to swallow. How long it takes for this to happen depends on the individual and also on shared thoughts of these changes.
It is a fact that changes, either acceptable or not to some of the players, made to a game are inevitable and are just part of the deal, are to be expected, since all gaming businesses do it.
The only thing that stays the same, is that nothing ever does.
In life and in games. PC NA AD/DC/EPAsh : "Klaatu Barada N... necktie... nectar... nickel... noodle. It's an "N" word, it's definitely an "N" word!"7 -
Rowjoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree 100% with the OP's articulate piece and the majority of the comments here too.
But I'm not sure there is a 'quitting epidemic'. The only way that can be substantiated is if we see the data.
Unfortunately ESO has become a one way ticket to the perpetually rotating bucking bronco - as soon as one is thrown off, another one jumps on.
Edited by Rowjoh on August 28, 2022 9:10PM3 -
Mrtoobyy✭✭✭✭Sad to say after 2 mostly enjoyable years I am no longer interested in playing the game in it's current state. [snip] ZoS as a whole needs to realise when they have made a mistake and hold their hands up, there would have been no shame in scrapping this disaster of an update.
[snip] I remember around Morrowind they removed the double impact sound for the dual wield heavy attacks, no word about it but it has been gone since. The same thing about ALL heavy attack sounds had a more impactful sound wich were removed.
The game felt way more fluid in the character movement etc back in the day. I'ts ironic how a game that's still being updated in 2022 has alot of worse thing than it had in 2014. Should be the other way around.
[edited for bashing & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 29, 2022 10:38AM15 -
OutofvoidSoul ShrivenI am thinking as well to quit my beloved healer after eight years of farming sets, cuts in healing abilties to the hafl, stupid cost implossion of healing abilities, more and more set required, too much is to much.17
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peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The OP has made a very thoughtful post and unfortunately the fact that the title has "quitting ESO epidemic" has caused a lot of folks to go down the rabbit hole of what an epidemic of quitting would be.
Not to make assumptions but I think people are loosely defining that term in their heads as either "the most people who have ever quit in a period of time in reaction to a change" or maybe "the amount of people quitting would be visibly be obvious to ALL such that the game feels dead everywhere." And then using argument to those internal definitions to counter that a lot of people aren't quitting.
That's all kind of missing the point. Due to ESO's vast array of platforms, servers, and variety of content, it is actually unlikely that ESO would ever suddenly just die due to a mass exodus. I have done other posts on this, so I'll end that particular thought there.
The real point is that some of us are seeing friends, acquaintances, and content creators quit the game over changes made to it when they would likely would still be happy players if the changes hadn't been implemented. Moreover, these folks seem to be longtime players, in some cases having been around since Beta. It is commonly accepted that it is more expensive to recruit new customers (or employees) than it is to keep existing customers, so this is a red flag for the changes being released.
It doesn't really matter, imo, if it's 10 or 25 or 100 or 1000 players per patch. It doesn't matter if all of you notice or some or even a handful. Patches and changes should make people want to return to the game! They should be met with mostly excitement or neutrality, and of course there's always some skepticism. But people ARE leaving. I am certain that the people coming on the forums and saying their friends have quit (like me) are not lying.
Is it an epidemic? I don't know and I don't think it matters. It's still not a GOOD sign and ZOS should pay attention to well-thought out posts like the OP's to try and keep customers instead of losing more. In my opinion, while obviously people come and go all the time, any more than a couple of people quitting in outrage or sadness due to a patch is too many.Edited by peacenote on August 28, 2022 9:41PM28 -
martinhpb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭TempusFugit wrote: »Not to defend or belittle anyone else's posts, because each of them comes from the heart. But just to share my thoughts, that if a game gets to feel stale, feels disheartening, or not fun anymore, for whatever reason, then it is time to take a break from it, and come back later to check it out.
After a while in any game, things just seem repetitive, lackluster and any changes are harder to swallow. How long it takes for this to happen depends on the individual and also on shared thoughts of these changes.
It is a fact that changes, either acceptable or not to some of the players, made to a game are inevitable and are just part of the deal, are to be expected, since all gaming businesses do it.
The only thing that stays the same, is that nothing ever does.
In life and in games.
Good and sound advice.
Although I took a break for two months, got back into pvp for a few weeks and then wham! U35 and Maras. It feels stale as hell.Edited by martinhpb16_ESO on August 28, 2022 9:53PMAt least the spelling is difficult for you.
Hew's Bane*3
