Notes on the Quitting ESO epidemic.

Marronsuisse

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

In the simplest terms, inflation in a closed economy like an MMO is caused by more Gold Sources than Gold Sinks. Every time someone leaves ESO, it is technically a gold sink unless they hand out all their money in Craglorn on the way out the door. LOL.

*lightbulb moment*

If anyone is quitting ESO permanently, feel free to offload your gold onto me.

Of course, I've been nerfed as hard as anyone this patch and am also walking away for a bit because it's too discouraging. But, hey. Maybe I'll come back one day and be rich, haha.

ccfeeling

Eso grinding is very easy

Kingsindarkness

I personally don't see a epidemic other than a lot of folks riding the new Apex mounts

Which look badass...

rpa

If it's fun I keep playing, if it's not fun any more I do other things.

ArchMikem

Even I've lost the desire to play, and have taken a break. I anticipated High Isle but again, the cinematics were misleading to how the zone ended up being, and my hype died after the second week. That's really depressing, I held more enjoyment from Greymoor.

And the combat changes, while not outright destructive, have been slowly eating at me more and more over the years, making it harder for me to enjoy the characters I've built. Ever since that one year my for fun overworld 1H&S Poison Crit Kitty dps was nerfed into the ground by a double whammy. Since then my Khajiit have been losing crit chance several times, recovery, making skills cost more etc. The one buff I appreciated were the Racial adjustments where Khajiit were actually given several things.

Currently spending the last month in Minecraft, actually. I'm keeping my Sub, I like the benefits and crowns, but I doubt I'll log in seriously until U36 and the Adventure Zone.

FantasticFreddie

My trial groups are FEELING the absence.
The team I got GS with just a few short months ago? 3 of us still play the game. 9 have quit.
Rg hm team-- disbanded after 5 people quit
GH team-- rl quit and no one picked up the mantel.
Now, vDSR has been constant roster prog. Idk how long the raid lead can hold it together
My own 2 little group are in constant roster prog.
You expect a certain amount of transition, people leaving for school, or having babies or changing jobs, or even just moving on to new groups in ESO, that fit their schedule
or goals better. This is different. They are overwhelmingly leaving for other games.
It's bad out there. It's all my friends, some of whom I've played with for years.
I'm still having fun, but we are at the point where if like 2 more people drop I am going to join everyone else in lost ark

The_Boggart

I'm thinking this is a three strike situation

1 AwA did not purchase high isle
2 U35 cancel ESO+
3 Starfield release stop playing ESO

Hurbster

rbfrgsp wrote: »

Legendry wrote: »

I played several videogames throughout almost 20 years of gaming (yes I am a grownup); and hands down, ESO PvP was the best of all those experiences.

Sensible Soccer is better.

Are we not all goal scoring superstar heroes in the end?

MISTFORMBZZZ

half of my guild quitted the game for now , main reasons is not U35 its the pvp servers who wont get fixed before short of 2024 , which isnt acceptable

rauyran

So much melodrama in this thread. People burn out all the time and an update that forces yet another meta change is a great time to take a break from the grind. The dev team being very uncommunicative made things worse.

Cyrodiil seems as busy as ever with a lot more open field mass battles. Probably since everyone feels tankier so they don't have to hide in keeps. It's a lot of fun.

The two new dungeons are superb and brilliantly designed.

The new meta has put new life into theorycrafting. New rotations, new builds, new gear combinations. The hybridization of stats also contributes to this, opening up so many new off-meta combinations.

At the end of the day there is more to ESO than pumping out the highest DPS and running trifectas. The majority of players want to have fun running dungeons with off-meta gear, questing, exploring, decorating, roleplaying, trading, achievement hunting, collecting, etc. None of that has been negatively affected by U35 at all.

Turtle_Bot

Carcamongus wrote: »

Criticism can be tiresome to read, but dread the moment it stops entirely.

This point right here. The player base is angry about the changes because they care so much about the game. A game they love dearly and want to see succeed.

Heck, I even finally got around to activating my forum link to post about the changes after playing this game since 2015.

While the player base is still communicating about the game, there is always that chance to take that feedback into account and reverse any bad decisions and improve the game, however when that feedback vanishes, that's when the devs need to worry. That silence means that those that love the game enough to put their own time, energy and money into the game have finally given up on the game and moved on. Once a game reaches this point, it is beyond saving.
This is how games die, by fading silently into oblivion.

IZZEFlameLash

rauyran wrote: »

So much melodrama in this thread. People burn out all the time and an update that forces yet another meta change is a great time to take a break from the grind. The dev team being very uncommunicative made things worse.

Cyrodiil seems as busy as ever with a lot more open field mass battles. Probably since everyone feels tankier so they don't have to hide in keeps. It's a lot of fun.

The two new dungeons are superb and brilliantly designed.

The new meta has put new life into theorycrafting. New rotations, new builds, new gear combinations. The hybridization of stats also contributes to this, opening up so many new off-meta combinations.

At the end of the day there is more to ESO than pumping out the highest DPS and running trifectas. The majority of players want to have fun running dungeons with off-meta gear, questing, exploring, decorating, roleplaying, trading, achievement hunting, collecting, etc. None of that has been negatively affected by U35 at all.

Everyone all of sudden happened to be burned out on similar time frame... very natural indeed.

ThirdEye_PULSE

rauyran wrote: »

So much melodrama in this thread. People burn out all the time and an update that forces yet another meta change is a great time to take a break from the grind. The dev team being very uncommunicative made things worse.

Cyrodiil seems as busy as ever with a lot more open field mass battles. Probably since everyone feels tankier so they don't have to hide in keeps. It's a lot of fun.

The two new dungeons are superb and brilliantly designed.

The new meta has put new life into theorycrafting. New rotations, new builds, new gear combinations. The hybridization of stats also contributes to this, opening up so many new off-meta combinations.

At the end of the day there is more to ESO than pumping out the highest DPS and running trifectas. The majority of players want to have fun running dungeons with off-meta gear, questing, exploring, decorating, roleplaying, trading, achievement hunting, collecting, etc. None of that has been negatively affected by U35 at all.

You do realize a lot of content creators steer away from theorycrafting because within 3 months your video is basically worth nothing anymore? The pace of change is actually bad for theorycrafting, not good. You can spend a good month getting your build and sets put together just to have 2 months left to actually play and enjoy the build you created.

I appreciate that the game is good for you. Your point is basically that since it doesnt effect you it doesnt exist. Cool. Glad your having fun, thats the main point of the game. I salute you.

Thats not really the target audience of this thread id think though. People happily playing the game arent thinking about quitting or already quit like many people that have posted here. There seems to be a general trend and theme to why people are leaving as well; changes are too drastic, too much at once, and implemented too quickly.

I think a lot of people that quit also are burnt out like myself from participating in PTS week 1-5 giving ideas for how to make u35 better because we all knew it wasnt going to be good. There was a lack of communication and especially respect towards the playerbase. Week 1 PTS forums were popping. There was hope all the way until week 5 then forums just died down along with hope for the future.

Its not just u35. Its all of it taken together that has burned many players.

Einar_Hrafnarsson

Having a blast in FFXIV with the free island i got to build a House on. First time i didnt have to pay for a House, or rather, an entire island.

Reaver999

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Reaver999 wrote: »

hiyde wrote: »

Here's some anecdotal info:

Historically, in the two big/busy trade guilds I help run:

A Chapter Launch week would see around 180 concurrent members logged in during primetime. (Well over 200 in older days)
A DLC Launch week would see 150+ peak.

So far this week, since the DLC launch, our busiest of the 2 guilds peaked at 92.
We checked with 15 other trade guilds in busy locations and only one of them passed 100 during primetime. (102)

One of our 2 trading guilds had *0* applications in 3 days. That has never happened before.

I'm not saying it's anything scientific, but these guilds have been around since 2014 and I'm fairly concerned over what I'm seeing this week. Curious to see what weekend numbers look like.

If the game sees a significant exodus, I hope ZOS learned the necessary lessons to alter course for the future. This is a terrific game with a stellar community and I don't see a lot of competition out there to peel away players if this game is in a good state.

I sell in 3 mournhold traders and have noticed that things that typically sell well when there is a new update aren't selling. Trust me it's not a pricing or experience thing, I know how to sell. Items like glyphs, high end foods used in raids, gold mats, popular gear are just not selling like they used to. I must say it has helped with inflation a bit lol. But I interpret this as people not building or raiding. PvP GH on PC NA que is fairly short during primetime when just a few months ago it was 60+ on a weekday. Now when you get in it is just ball groups and streamers trolling because there is so much imbalance. I believe a lot of veterans are stepping away I can feel it in sales and see it in que times, shorter for PvP and longer for dungeons. I understand MMO's are grindy but it is obviously getting out of hand when people that typically enjoy grindy games start walking away there is a problem. It just isn't worth the time or money sink anymore. It is no longer rewarding in game or as an experience as a whole. This is why I canceled my sub and have downloaded a few other games to try out. I'm sure I'll still play, just don't want to pay for a the experience I'm getting.

In the simplest terms, inflation in a closed economy like an MMO is caused by more Gold Sources than Gold Sinks. Every time someone leaves ESO, it is technically a gold sink unless they hand out all their money in Craglorn on the way out the door. LOL.

I have never sold crowns, but I did join Tamriel Crown Exchange or whatever its called just to monitor the situation. They have lowered prices twice in the last month or two, which I am never seen. That tells me that there are fewer whales in the ocean.

An economist I see. I didn't know economists studied closed system economies of MMO's. I'm simply commenting from my experience as a trader, because trading is what I mostly do. In my experience if people are not buying and things are sitting and accumulating people start dropping their prices to sell, in the simplest of terms it is supply, demand, and competition. The prices on some items have dropped because the market is currently "overstocked" . Competition forces prices down. For instance when U35 hit PTS after the first week or so as people started freaking out the frequency of sales of certain items dropped, more and more were listed, and in order to sell people were pricing down. D wax went from about 40k in mournhold PC NA to currently 34kish. I was selling smoked bear haunch for 44k at one point and now it is down to 29kish and still sits a minute. When people were excited about U34 sales were awesome and prices went up. I'm not saying it's the only factor, because ESOs economy isn't affected by 1 simple variable, but it does contribute. If gold source/gold sink were the only contributing factors then all the economies on all the servers should be experiencing the same type of inflation as PC, but they don't, because PC has larger populations with more demand. I sell, A LOT, and prices on all things have dropped somewhat. And hey guess what when more people are playing and golding out gear, raiding, theory crafting, etc. the more demand and less supply = higher prices. I always thought supply and demand was pretty simple. But I'm not an economist with a focus in closed system MMO economies.But thanks for clearing that up for me, I appreciate it lol.

Vanos444

Legendry wrote: »

So yeah, stop changing combat and core mechanics for at least a year and you will see ESO shining again.
For all there is GG ESO, we had a lot of fun.
Luck to you all.

They are afraid to do just that!

If they do as you mentioned, then what is there left for players to be excited for?

* Story? ( Most players play the game without even bothering about the said lore/story)
* Gear? ( Yes, players would love new gear but they want something more of what ESO patches are known for )
*New dungeons? ( Not all players do PvE content, most play ESO solely for PvP and I am one of those player.)

Lastly, Natch Potes! Will lose its excitement and it's value.( Most of players, just scroll directly to the gameplay/combat changes)

ThirdEye_PULSE

Vanos444 wrote: »

Legendry wrote: »

So yeah, stop changing combat and core mechanics for at least a year and you will see ESO shining again.
For all there is GG ESO, we had a lot of fun.
Luck to you all.

They are afraid to do just that!

If they do as you mentioned, then what is there left for players to be excited for?

* Story? ( Most players play the game without even bothering about the said lore/story)
* Gear? ( Yes, players would love new gear but they want something more of what ESO patches are known for )
*New dungeons? ( Not all players do PvE content, most play ESO solely for PvP and I am one of those player.)

Lastly, Natch Potes! Will lose its excitement and it's value.( Most of players, just scroll directly to the gameplay/combat changes)

You find patch notes and patch cycles exciting? Ive come to associate patch notes over 4 years playing as anxiety inducing and terrifying. Been awhile since patch notes had me excited. Most games I get excited. Not ESO.

FantasticFreddie

Vanos444 wrote: »

Legendry wrote: »

So yeah, stop changing combat and core mechanics for at least a year and you will see ESO shining again.
For all there is GG ESO, we had a lot of fun.
Luck to you all.

They are afraid to do just that!

If they do as you mentioned, then what is there left for players to be excited for?

* Story? ( Most players play the game without even bothering about the said lore/story)
* Gear? ( Yes, players would love new gear but they want something more of what ESO patches are known for )
*New dungeons? ( Not all players do PvE content, most play ESO solely for PvP and I am one of those player.)

Lastly, Natch Potes! Will lose its excitement and it's value.( Most of players, just scroll directly to the gameplay/combat changes)

...... no, people do not get excited by core combat changes that nerf damage, wreck builds and rotation, and shift the goal post on progs.

People DO get excited by new trials, new zones, new stories, new sets, new classes and occasionally new systems as well, although both ToT and companions were tbh a little flat.

New pvp content would be freaking fabulous 👌. It's been YEARS since there was anything new for pvp and it was the hammer.

If zos could figure out how to adjust skills and sets rather than nerf or buff them into oblivion, bring back class identity, and STOP obsessing over the top 0.01% of players that are pushing content, people WOULD once again look forward to a combat adjustment every six months or so.

But they could keep us occupied for months, possibly years, with just releasing new content and fixing their laundry list of bugs.

People have been saying for YEARS that playing king of the hill with builds and classes every 3 months is exhausting and we hate it. It's just gotten worse over time, and there is no rhyme or reason to their changes, ever.

oli.j.reillyb16_ESO

Vanos444 wrote: »

They are afraid to do just that!
If they do as you mentioned, then what is there left for players to be excited for?

This is completely backwards, you know that right? If combat changes were decoupled from content releases - say only twice a year - then guess what?

Every kind of player suddenly has double the time to actually enjoy and savour all those things you listed!

The endless quarterly treadmill and the dreading of natch potes is the opposite of exciting. Realistically there hasn’t been a wholly positive patch free of drama and full of excitement since the Outfit Station!

Dulkur

An article talking about Fallout 76 issues mentioned an overall issue between development and testing that would impact Elder Scrolls Online also. If the development people don't respect the people testing the game and how changes will impact, how players will use the changes, we are going to keep getting the crazy outcomes that need to be changed again.

We knew a broken PvP set would exist from first announcement, everyone saw it and knew it from day 1, so how did it make it to live with a "next patch" will fix it message on patch day!? I could understand things getting through sometimes, but with this game it is every major update has a problem known from first release to *** Test. Game testers are like editors let them do their job and they will help the developers clean up these balance issues before the live servers are impacted.

We keep getting changes that feel like the developers decided to include a cheat code in the form of an item set or class ability.

The Elder Scrolls Online did a number of things really well, but we have un-killable tanks, ball groups and absurd builds that have gone unaddressed for years, or the attempt at addressing them breaks something else while failing to fix the core problems. How many players has the game lost because of it? I am sure many want to call it normal attrition, but it isn't. Listen to zone chat after players have had to deal with a ball group for an hour.

People hate the major game changes here because they have a "rotation", to perfect this game top players and everyone in between needs to be successful at turning themselves into an automaton. I have never understood how that could be good for a game, but with the leveling and other structures I guess many MMO players want the "achievement" feeling more than actual game play.

dinokstrunz

rauyran wrote: »

So much melodrama in this thread. People burn out all the time and an update that forces yet another meta change is a great time to take a break from the grind. The dev team being very uncommunicative made things worse.

Cyrodiil seems as busy as ever with a lot more open field mass battles. Probably since everyone feels tankier so they don't have to hide in keeps. It's a lot of fun.

The two new dungeons are superb and brilliantly designed.

The new meta has put new life into theorycrafting. New rotations, new builds, new gear combinations. The hybridization of stats also contributes to this, opening up so many new off-meta combinations.

At the end of the day there is more to ESO than pumping out the highest DPS and running trifectas. The majority of players want to have fun running dungeons with off-meta gear, questing, exploring, decorating, roleplaying, trading, achievement hunting, collecting, etc. None of that has been negatively affected by U35 at all.

Okay lets pick this response piece by piece.

Cyrodiil has been declining for months perhaps even years. There are far fewer players in Cyrodiil then there was 3 or 4 years ago, ZOS reduced the Population cap and then of course you have the unwanted no proc ruleset which barely anyone enjoys. For example Ravenwatch on PCEU is only flares up for maybe a hour or two before returning back to ghost town status. We've asked for ZOS to bring back old proc enabled Ravenwatch but we were told "Players like choices", yeah if choices means fewer options to play with my friends then it's a bad design. Either wait 20-30 miutes for a group battleground or play a dull no proc ruleset. It's not good at all.

As far as I've none of the criticisms on U35 have been about the new dungeons and from the sounds of it, they actually did a solid job here.

Meta changes yeah but the game is still the same, it's incredibly stale and there's a lot abilities/specs that are just flat out overtuned. Healing is still absurd and because even more obnoxious after the reduction in player damage. Even solo battlegrounds feel like premade brawl spectacles and sometimes I just rather stand there and watch 4 players attempt to kill each other for 5+ minutes straight. Hybridization has only contributed to a less entertaining meta which is speeding up player burn out from the game.

ZOS attempt to slow down the game by curbing player damage output and done nothing good for the game at all. You can't expect to praise a game dev for making fights longer by hurting the player. Other game devs do this so much better, just take a Blizzard for their upcoming changes to Diablo 2, instead of lowering of player damage or making skills not fun to use, they went for the smarter option of creating new grinding options with a feature called "Terror zones" which raises monster levels well past that of the players. Why can't ZOS grasp this instead of taking their own game and crashing it through a field of terrible update after terrible update.

Agenericname

barney2525 wrote: »

What is this fictitious " Decent Level " ?

According what I am seeing here, these players want to make One set of Gear and never have to adjust anything ever again. They have reached GN. (Gear Nirvana)

And None of them would stay longer than a year in ESO.... because they would all be BORED TO TEARS.

I have been here 8, going on 9 years. Thats not impressive. Its just a number.

I highly doubt that's true. Ive easily gone over a year without changing gear.

Vanos444 wrote: »

Legendry wrote: »

So yeah, stop changing combat and core mechanics for at least a year and you will see ESO shining again.
For all there is GG ESO, we had a lot of fun.
Luck to you all.

They are afraid to do just that!

If they do as you mentioned, then what is there left for players to be excited for?

* Story? ( Most players play the game without even bothering about the said lore/story)
* Gear? ( Yes, players would love new gear but they want something more of what ESO patches are known for )
*New dungeons? ( Not all players do PvE content, most play ESO solely for PvP and I am one of those player.)

Lastly, Natch Potes! Will lose its excitement and it's value.( Most of players, just scroll directly to the gameplay/combat changes)

Wait, what?

Veinblood1965

mandricus wrote: »

Spot on.
This is the same reason why I'm taking a break. Can't cope with a system that asks me to rebuild most of my alts every 3 or 6 months.
This, and the fact that, usually, when addressing balancing issues, looks like there is no middleground. In most games, when meta gear is nerfed, it's addressed by making little changes (sometimes even in small changes trough incremental patches: they tune it down a little bit, check the reaction of the player base, and, if needed, they tune it down again a little bit, until they find the good spot) so it will not be meta anymore, but it will be still good, balanced and effective for most of the non-meta chasers.
This is not the case in ESO, where most of the times a set or a mythic, when "balanced", typically goes from being brokenly overpowered to being utterly trash.


<<<<<I am of the mind that this is deliberate so as to "sell" expansions with great mythics. From what I have seen the awesome mythic items do get nerfed into oblivion about two months after release. The team who designs them has to know the stats or OP before even releasing them. It's why High Isle will be the last expansion I buy and most likely why I quit the game, it is just wrong.

And there is an epidemic. I noticed in my PVP guild the other day I had not seen several people online I've played with regularly. When looking at their profile in guild finder many had not been online in a month or more. It is not due to school being in session etc either.

SaffronCitrusflower

SilverBride wrote: »

There is no quitting ESO epidemic.

There absolutely IS an epidemic of people leaving ESO. Ask any trading guild GM. Ask any trial raid leader. Ask any PvP regular and they will tell you there absolutely IS a mass exodus of players leaving ESO.

Over the next few weeks to months the number of eso+ subs is going to bottom out to what could very possibly be an all time low. I don't know anyone willing to pay for a sub now after U35 going live. And as a primarily PvP player, 80-90% of the players on my friends list began leaving the game a couple years ago and I'm not sure there will be more than a handful left here shortly.

Four_Fingers

The_Boggart wrote: »

I'm thinking this is a three strike situation

1 AwA did not purchase high isle
2 U35 cancel ESO+
3 Starfield release stop playing ESO

I will have to think long and hard about investing in Starfield if this is how it might be managed.

Riptide

Four_Fingers wrote: »

The_Boggart wrote: »

I'm thinking this is a three strike situation

1 AwA did not purchase high isle
2 U35 cancel ESO+
3 Starfield release stop playing ESO

I will have to think long and hard about investing in Starfield if this is how it might be managed.

Indeed anything under the Bethesda/Zenimax umbrella I will never early adopt again, urge everyone I know to a similar approach, and communicate that caution in every venue that I participate in.

That isn’t to say Bethesda/Zenimax haven’t put out quality content in the past, won’t again, or are made up of bad people or anything like that.

But have used up benefit of the doubt, allowing subs to run in the background semi unused to “support the game”, care free crown consumption, and so forth.

At this point it would only be wise to, in fact, doubt. That isn’t being ugly just the truth of the track record. It would be irresponsible and unreasonable to pretend otherwise if we want to be fair and truthful to our fellow consumers, simple as that.

SilverBride

SizanLopkniht wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There is no quitting ESO epidemic.

There absolutely IS an epidemic of people leaving ESO. Ask any trading guild GM. Ask any trial raid leader. Ask any PvP regular and they will tell you there absolutely IS a mass exodus of players leaving ESO.

I've been a member of a successful trading guild for quite awhile now and we had one member say they were unhappy with the changes. Except for an occasional member leaving, which happens in all guilds, the only ones we lost since the update were those who were purged for not meeting the weekly sales requirements, and they were quickly replaced.

I've been all over Tamriel and I see just as many other players as I always have going about business as usual.

SaffronCitrusflower

SilverBride wrote: »

SizanLopkniht wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

There is no quitting ESO epidemic.

There absolutely IS an epidemic of people leaving ESO. Ask any trading guild GM. Ask any trial raid leader. Ask any PvP regular and they will tell you there absolutely IS a mass exodus of players leaving ESO.

I've been a member is a successful trading guild for quite awhile now and we had one member say they were unhappy with the changes. Except for an occasional member leaving, which happens in all guilds, the only ones we lost since the update were those who were purged for not meeting the weekly sales requirements, and they were quickly replaced.

I've been all over Tamriel and I see just as many other players as I always have going about business as usual.

What trading guild are you referring to and where is the trader located?

You've repeatedly posted that you don't do solo or group trials, don't do battlegrounds, that you don't PvP and that you don't participate in vet HM dungeons or the PTS. That means there is a whole heck of a lot of the game you have not taken part in.

The major trade guilds that pay tens of millions of gold/week to keep their prime traders are, in fact, losing so many members lately that they are seriously struggling to pay the rent now days. Sure, if your trader is in some obscure location and populated with a small number of casual players they're doing fine. But the major trade guilds certainly ARE NOT doing fine now days. They are struggling.

Amottica

Legendry wrote: »

Allow me to bring and example: the League of Legends development team are masters at Dynamic Equilibrium

Not disagreeing with the purpose of the post. I am just pointing out that LoL has a very simplistic design compared to ESO. As such their development team being masters of something simplistic is not really saying much.

imno007b14_ESO

I really encourage everyone who is deeply unsatisfied with the current state of the game to take a break. Seriously, at the end of the day, this is a corporation we're talking about, and the people who make the big decisions, who are responsible for the ultimate direction of the game, really only pay attention when their bottom line is affected. If you keep complaining but keep playing the game, all that says to them is that they can keep doing whatever they want and you will stick with them.