MAGICKAS! WE HAVE A BIG PROBLEM !!! MAGICKAS !!!! (Healers too, Where is the balance?)

Astin_nds

Currently I have seen that Vigor has become "normal", and it will heal "normal",


That is very good... but let's remember that this skill only uses stamina... which benefits hybrids a little and stamina quite a bit... but what about the magicka? , the counterpart of vigor in magicka could be said to be rapid regeneration, since they are very similar and one is from magicka and the other is from stamina... but of course rapid regeneration has a nerf to half healing... ummm hello? what do we magicka do when the beautiful staminas goes BOOM!! vigor !! , +heal nice , migcka booom!! rapid regeneration.... emmm only the hafl of vigor? and this can heal other guy first before me?... I see a serious problem with magicka, if vigor is "normal", rapid regeneration or complete regeneration must be "NORMAL" .. please And thanks... always the same with vigor vigor vigor, of course as most use this, nothing, to the magicka that give us with our 14k 17k stamina launch a vigor and when blocking not having stamina and going to the well... PLEASE REPAIR THIS, although it would not be bad if vigor will use magicka if your spell dmg is higher than your weapon dmg , even though it's easier to return to "normal" regeneration.... and now it gives minor resolve .!! give minor resolve to regeneration too!! BALANCE!!! MAGICKA = PLAYERS , STAMINAS = PLAYERS!!!! , or vigor that uses magicka too with spell dmg more hig than wp dmg come on..

+add , repid regeneration need 100% a resto staff sloted , vigor no....

MAGICKAS! WE HAVE A BIG PROBLEM !!

AlterBlika

I actually looked forward to using the new resolving vigor on my solo build, as the only source of major resolve for my stam nb is balance which debuffs my heals and shields. But now I'm not so sure. For minor resolve I'd rather run mirage and get major evasion as well as spending magicka instead of my primary resource.

Astin_nds

AlterBlika wrote: »

I actually looked forward to using the new resolving vigor on my solo build, as the only source of major resolve for my stam nb is balance which debuffs my heals and shields. But now I'm not so sure. For minor resolve I'd rather run mirage and get major evasion as well as spending magicka instead of my primary resource.

No no, if it's the best option for you, Vigor turned "normal", that makes it the best possible healing explosion in the whole game, when you heal between 2k to 3k per tick, and rapid regeneration just 1k or 1 ,5k (half nerf heal), and you get a minor buff using vigor .. the thing is that those of us who use magicka are left out, do they force us to stop being magicka to heal ourselves? On top of that, a restoration staff that is focused on curing will cure less? without logics , vigor overpowered

Astin_nds

Astin_nds wrote: »

AlterBlika wrote: »

I actually looked forward to using the new resolving vigor on my solo build, as the only source of major resolve for my stam nb is balance which debuffs my heals and shields. But now I'm not so sure. For minor resolve I'd rather run mirage and get major evasion as well as spending magicka instead of my primary resource.

No no, if it's the best option for you, Vigor turned "normal", that makes it the best possible healing explosion in the whole game, when you heal between 2k to 3k per tick, and rapid regeneration just 1k or 1 ,5k (half nerf heal), and you get a minor buff using vigor .. the thing is that those of us who use magicka are left out, do they force us to stop being magicka to heal ourselves? On top of that, a restoration staff that is focused on curing will cure less? without logics , vigor overpowered

add + magickas noramly use repid regeneration

xDeusEJRx

AlterBlika wrote: »

I actually looked forward to using the new resolving vigor on my solo build, as the only source of major resolve for my stam nb is balance which debuffs my heals and shields. But now I'm not so sure. For minor resolve I'd rather run mirage and get major evasion as well as spending magicka instead of my primary resource.

Mirage doesn't give evasion and resolve anymore instead it reduces cost of roll dodge so vigor change might make up for that

Astin_nds

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

AlterBlika wrote: »

I actually looked forward to using the new resolving vigor on my solo build, as the only source of major resolve for my stam nb is balance which debuffs my heals and shields. But now I'm not so sure. For minor resolve I'd rather run mirage and get major evasion as well as spending magicka instead of my primary resource.

Mirage doesn't give evasion and resolve anymore instead it reduces cost of roll dodge so vigor change might make up for that

Now magickas need to be staminas ? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , resto staff utility = get a good campfire XD

Dojohoda

I might be off the message of the topic and apologies if I am.

A method to improve the heal: Heavy attack with your restoration staff, get 4 seconds of major mending, immediately use vigor. Unfortunately for this 4 second buff is that Vigor lasts longer than the buff.

Might also be useful to test which trait and enchantment to best buff the heals from vigor on mag-toon.
-Powered versus nirnhoned
-Weapon damage enchantment versus something you need more (for example, the stamina return).

You gain Major Mending for 4 seconds after completing a fully-charged Heavy Attack, increasing your healing done by 16%. You also heal yourself or an ally within 15 meters of the target for 50% of the damage inflicted by the final hit of a fully-charged Heavy Attack.

Astin_nds

Dojohoda wrote: »

I might be off the message of the topic and apologies if I am.

A method to improve the heal: Heavy attack with your restoration staff, get 4 seconds of major mending, immediately use vigor. Unfortunately for this 4 second buff is that Vigor lasts longer than the buff.

Might also be useful to test which trait and enchantment to best buff the heals from vigor on mag-toon.
-Powered versus nirnhoned
-Weapon damage enchantment versus something you need more (for example, the stamina return).

You gain Major Mending for 4 seconds after completing a fully-charged Heavy Attack, increasing your healing done by 16%. You also heal yourself or an ally within 15 meters of the target for 50% of the damage inflicted by the final hit of a fully-charged Heavy Attack.

We return to the same thing, a skill that uses stamina that does not favor a magicka, but a hybrid or stamina, because if you do that with vigor you will get good healing, much more than his own rapid regeneration skill.. it makes no sense no matter where you look at it and on top of that if this ability used the resource depending on your wp and sp then it would be good for everyone and we could all use it, but it seems not

Astin_nds

Dojohoda wrote: »

I might be off the message of the topic and apologies if I am.

A method to improve the heal: Heavy attack with your restoration staff, get 4 seconds of major mending, immediately use vigor. Unfortunately for this 4 second buff is that Vigor lasts longer than the buff.

Might also be useful to test which trait and enchantment to best buff the heals from vigor on mag-toon.
-Powered versus nirnhoned
-Weapon damage enchantment versus something you need more (for example, the stamina return).

You gain Major Mending for 4 seconds after completing a fully-charged Heavy Attack, increasing your healing done by 16%. You also heal yourself or an ally within 15 meters of the target for 50% of the damage inflicted by the final hit of a fully-charged Heavy Attack.

VS

ToRelax

Vigor being both a good bit stronger than Rapid Regen and then giving an armor buff on top of it is more than a little strange, yes.

Ratzkifal

ToRelax wrote: »

Vigor being both a good bit stronger than Rapid Regen and then giving an armor buff on top of it is more than a little strange, yes.

Honestly that is not strange. Rapid Regen can cross-heal so comparing it to the single target morph of Vigor is a bit unfair.
However, most classes don't have access to single-target class heals over time and in the case of NBs, their heal got nerfed a lot for no apparent reason given this context. So there is still a problem here, but not with Rapid Regen being weaker, that's justified.

acastanza_ESO

I agree, this change is pretty blatantly unfair to magicka builds.
Any stam build can vigor-spam to heal up and still have stamina left over.
What actual options do magicka builds have (that don't outright require a restoration staff, vigor doesn't require anything)? A couple in-class heals like sorcerer's kill-able matriarch?

ToRelax

Ratzkifal wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vigor being both a good bit stronger than Rapid Regen and then giving an armor buff on top of it is more than a little strange, yes.

Honestly that is not strange. Rapid Regen can cross-heal so comparing it to the single target morph of Vigor is a bit unfair.
However, most classes don't have access to single-target class heals over time and in the case of NBs, their heal got nerfed a lot for no apparent reason given this context. So there is still a problem here, but not with Rapid Regen being weaker, that's justified.

Rapid Regen requires a restoration staff, it should be at least as powerful as Resolving Vigor. Both of these have group healing morphs which are already preferred for group play on live. If that were the issue, they could easily restrict Rapid Regen to a self heal same as Resolving Vigor.

Astin_nds

Ratzkifal wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vigor being both a good bit stronger than Rapid Regen and then giving an armor buff on top of it is more than a little strange, yes.

Honestly that is not strange. Rapid Regen can cross-heal so comparing it to the single target morph of Vigor is a bit unfair.
However, most classes don't have access to single-target class heals over time and in the case of NBs, their heal got nerfed a lot for no apparent reason given this context. So there is still a problem here, but not with Rapid Regen being weaker, that's justified.

Rapid regen is 1 target only, rapid regen first heals the one in front of you instead of you, rapid regen doesn't stack, unless another morp is thrown against you, rapid regen heals on real server just a little more than Vaigor, rapid regen needs a restoration staff (you can't carry your cute little shield etc etc), rapid regen is magic cost, for magickas, or hybrids, Vaigor is just stamina, and consumes stamina.
Summary : Magickas can't heal themselves (a decent heal since Vaigor will heal 2-3k and rapid regen of 3k that healed now will heal 1'- 1.5k)... do you still think it's wrong to compare them?
It's a single-target skill, they heal the same way, vaigor gives resistance, rapid regeneration doesn't, and if you're unlucky, you heal another when you needed it , do you still think the same?

Astin_nds

Astin_nds wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vigor being both a good bit stronger than Rapid Regen and then giving an armor buff on top of it is more than a little strange, yes.

Honestly that is not strange. Rapid Regen can cross-heal so comparing it to the single target morph of Vigor is a bit unfair.
However, most classes don't have access to single-target class heals over time and in the case of NBs, their heal got nerfed a lot for no apparent reason given this context. So there is still a problem here, but not with Rapid Regen being weaker, that's justified.

Rapid regen is 1 target only, rapid regen first heals the one in front of you instead of you, rapid regen doesn't stack, unless another morp is thrown against you, rapid regen heals on real server just a little more than Vaigor, rapid regen needs a restoration staff (you can't carry your cute little shield etc etc), rapid regen is magic cost, for magickas, or hybrids, Vaigor is just stamina, and consumes stamina.
Summary : Magickas can't heal themselves (a decent heal since Vaigor will heal 2-3k and rapid regen of 3k that healed now will heal 1'- 1.5k)... do you still think it's wrong to compare them?
It's a single-target skill, they heal the same way, vaigor gives resistance, rapid regeneration doesn't, and if you're unlucky, you heal another when you needed it , do you still think the same?

Idk why i put Vaigor ... is Vigor im so stupid xD

Astin_nds

ToRelax wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Vigor being both a good bit stronger than Rapid Regen and then giving an armor buff on top of it is more than a little strange, yes.

Honestly that is not strange. Rapid Regen can cross-heal so comparing it to the single target morph of Vigor is a bit unfair.
However, most classes don't have access to single-target class heals over time and in the case of NBs, their heal got nerfed a lot for no apparent reason given this context. So there is still a problem here, but not with Rapid Regen being weaker, that's justified.

Rapid Regen requires a restoration staff, it should be at least as powerful as Resolving Vigor. Both of these have group healing morphs which are already preferred for group play on live. If that were the issue, they could easily restrict Rapid Regen to a self heal same as Resolving Vigor.

Regen and Vigor need to heal the same , or Vigor use magicka if your spelld dmg is more hg than your wpd , for magicka clases can use it too ...

React

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

AlterBlika wrote: »

I actually looked forward to using the new resolving vigor on my solo build, as the only source of major resolve for my stam nb is balance which debuffs my heals and shields. But now I'm not so sure. For minor resolve I'd rather run mirage and get major evasion as well as spending magicka instead of my primary resource.

Mirage doesn't give evasion and resolve anymore instead it reduces cost of roll dodge so vigor change might make up for that

Mirage still gives evasion and resolve, and reduces the cost of roll.

Phantasmal gives snare immunity and evasion, and reduces the cost of roll.

FriendlyGuy

Allmost all burst heals and class heals are magicka based, so you have that going for you. Stamina basically only has vigor as a reliable heal so it is fine that it didnt get nerfed in the end. Healing on magicka specs will just be different but not worse at all. Stamina will rely on vigor while magicka will use class burst heals. As a magicka based spec you can still use vigor, just not that often. A strong vigor also allows classes like sorc to not be forced to run resto backbar which is honestly a good thing.

FriendlyGuy

But it didnt need minor resolve lol

Naftal

Magicka players can use vigor just fine.

Astin_nds

FriendlyGuy wrote: »

Allmost all burst heals and class heals are magicka based, so you have that going for you. Stamina basically only has vigor as a reliable heal so it is fine that it didnt get nerfed in the end. Healing on magicka specs will just be different but not worse at all. Stamina will rely on vigor while magicka will use class burst heals. As a magicka based spec you can still use vigor, just not that often. A strong vigor also allows classes like sorc to not be forced to run resto backbar which is honestly a good thing.

I hope you're saying it ironically... Well, as has already been said to heal us with magic THERE ARE NO... only those of a class, and there is only 1 per class and of a high cost bad for spam heal xD.
Which means that the staminas will have their VIGOR and they will have their class skill and they are not forced to change their backbar to rest staff , ah ! and got x2 heal more than me with only 1 skill in 4 s and i need 2 skills.. with more than 5 seconds
So I have to force myself to use backbar rest staff, that I have to get used to that it heals half in 5 seconds, that is, in 1 more than in VIGOR xD and would I need 2 slots of 2 heals to heal me the same? , healing over time is very, very important ... emm I'll say it again I hope you say it sarcastically , when currently on the live they both heal exactly the same is how it should be even with the rest of the staff against because I could put on an ice staff plus a healing WHICH USE MAGICKA (there is not only the rest of the staff) and have more blocking with my ice staff, but no, it forces me to the rest of the staff and on top of that half of the healing...
for the 3rd time I hope you are speaking in irony...

Astin_nds

Naftal wrote: »

Magicka players can use vigor just fine.

Yes ofcourse with 15k - 17k stamina max i can launch 1 vigor , block 1 attack and got dead by 4k stamina left xd , yes yes is very worth ofcourse....

Astin_nds

Astin_nds wrote: »

Naftal wrote: »

Magicka players can use vigor just fine.

Yes ofcourse with 15k - 17k stamina max i can launch 1 vigor , block 1 attack and got dead by 4k stamina left xd , yes yes is very worth ofcourse....

add: and run 2 meters and left the 4k left stamina ... very good idea! , yuo can use it if you re an hybrid or stamina but a magicka? mmm very bad idea

Klingenlied

Ah well. Nothing will get changed for the upcoming patch anyway. I will wait out how it plays and how the final patch notes look like. It was just too much changes with everything to keep track of. The only thing I would easily agree on: vigor on live now is fine. I don't think it needed a buff.

Firstmep

What's magicka and stamina? Who even runs that lol.
We are all hybrids now, come on let's not pretend.

Astin_nds

Firstmep wrote: »

What's magicka and stamina? Who even runs that lol.
We are all hybrids now, come on let's not pretend.

im use magicka , and other players... equal than you see staminas you can see magickas xD

Firstmep

Astin_nds wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

What's magicka and stamina? Who even runs that lol.
We are all hybrids now, come on let's not pretend.

im use magicka , and other players... equal than you see staminas you can see magickas xD

I dunno, I just see dragonknights using red flames or green flames, but then they both use red whip, the same heals, same utility skills etc. Barely any difference at all.
Btw someone said magicka costing burst heals are bad? Erm 20k plus coag crit heals in pvp would like to have a word with you lol xD.

FriendlyGuy

Astin_nds wrote: »

FriendlyGuy wrote: »

Allmost all burst heals and class heals are magicka based, so you have that going for you. Stamina basically only has vigor as a reliable heal so it is fine that it didnt get nerfed in the end. Healing on magicka specs will just be different but not worse at all. Stamina will rely on vigor while magicka will use class burst heals. As a magicka based spec you can still use vigor, just not that often. A strong vigor also allows classes like sorc to not be forced to run resto backbar which is honestly a good thing.

I hope you're saying it ironically... Well, as has already been said to heal us with magic THERE ARE NO... only those of a class, and there is only 1 per class and of a high cost bad for spam heal xD.
Which means that the staminas will have their VIGOR and they will have their class skill and they are not forced to change their backbar to rest staff , ah ! and got x2 heal more than me with only 1 skill in 4 s and i need 2 skills.. with more than 5 seconds
So I have to force myself to use backbar rest staff, that I have to get used to that it heals half in 5 seconds, that is, in 1 more than in VIGOR xD and would I need 2 slots of 2 heals to heal me the same? , healing over time is very, very important ... emm I'll say it again I hope you say it sarcastically , when currently on the live they both heal exactly the same is how it should be even with the rest of the staff against because I could put on an ice staff plus a healing WHICH USE MAGICKA (there is not only the rest of the staff) and have more blocking with my ice staff, but no, it forces me to the rest of the staff and on top of that half of the healing...
for the 3rd time I hope you are speaking in irony...

Not at all. On top of that it is not hard to sustain vigor on mag specs if you do it smart. I rly dont know where this panic comes from. Magplars,magcros and magdk have no issue healing at all even without vigor or resto. Nb and sorcs have quit *** heals. Nerfing vigor would hurt them way more than the other classes , regardless of stam or mag and would 100% force them to run resto backbar on top of vigor.

But maybe think the other way around. Where would stamina be without a strong vigor? Spamming magicka heals 4times and then die? You said it yourself , they cant be spammed , even less on stam specs.

At last i also wanted to say that this patch has alot of issues (by far the worst patch ive ever seen so far) but vigor healing is rly not.
If you wanna know the real healing issue: look at maras balm set. Slap it on and be unkillabe. This set alone will reduce build diversity far more than any other „healing inbalances“. In my opinion reason enough to not play (at least pvp) next patch.

Ps: i mostly play mag classes and was rly glad to see vigor getting buffed again, gives me more options for my builds

Runkorko

Naftal wrote: »

Magicka players can use vigor just fine.

with 15k stamin good luck using vigor in pvp.
dont forhet to tell enemy players to not cc you or force you to roll dodge because you have Vigor sloted and need all your stamina to keep it up

MidniteOwl1913

With the nerf to radiating regeneration I'm going to have to redo my healer build. I may add vigor and dump the resto staff entirely. Ground-based heals aren't very useful to me so with RR nerfed into the ground I'll have to see what will work.

I know that this is something a lot of PVPers have been asking for, but in the end, I don't think it will work out well even for them.

AlterBlika

Astin_nds wrote: »

the thing is that those of us who use magicka are left out, do they force us to stop being magicka to heal ourselves?

Don't magickas have class heals costing magicka? Or they all are now inferior to vigor? If this is the case then it's sad.