MAGICKAS! WE HAVE A BIG PROBLEM !!! MAGICKAS !!!! (Healers too, Where is the balance?)

ZOS_Lunar

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Mayrael

Firstmep wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

I feel like we are talking about eso from like 2 years ago or something. If you think vigor is strong then use it, period.
If you want rapid regen, so you can heal others, use it. Or use both, plenty of people already do.

Magicka(s) this Stamina(s) that, we are hybrids now so its whatever. People need to get with the hybrid program and stop complaining about the "other side". The other side doesnt exist, its gone.

One one side yes, you're right I prefered vigor even before patch on magicka toons simply because of no limitations on weapons, self only and being my secondary resource pool but with new patch why even have rapid regen? We can delete this skill because nobody will use it. It needs to be changed for the sake of choice.

In the past I thought it would be great if rapid regen was self heal only.
But in practice, resto is the strongest defensive weapon on live atm, and I think that needs to change.

For the record I did not think vigor needed a buff from live, and it's just one of those things where the devs probably looked at feedback on pts, but seemingly completely forgot what the skill looked like on the live server.

As for rapid regen, I think it would be nice if they gave it something unique, rather than another hot to stack with rest.

Well yes, it's the strongest defensive weapon because all of it's skills are defensive ones - like no other weapon. It has nothing to do with rapid regen. We used to have mutagen which had interesting mechanic but was to weak when compared to rapid regen. Maybe it would nice to mix these two to make it more in line with resolving vigor.

BalticBlues

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

Thank you for that image.
Isn't that a pitiful skill now?

5508 healing OVER 10 SECs is worth nothing, sorry.
My Stam toons do this damage is ONLY 1 SEC.
It's like you are protecting with a towel against swords.

Moreover, Echoing Vigor, the Stamina counterpart, heals ALL ppl close to you, not only three.
Radiating Regneration will be a DEAD SKILL with U35 if this goes live.
This is just another example where I think, "pls bring Wrobel back" to protect us.

Raammzzaa

Completely agree with the sentiments expressed in this thread. Perhaps this was mentioned by someone else, but I didn’t see it, though someone did mention that the nerf had been requested for pvp - where the strength of radiating regen has not been how much it ticks for or so much the number teammates it hits, but that it stacks. As does resolving vigor for that matter. If you ever look at a coordinated group as we are moving together as we are all using regen it will be on my status bar about 3 times along with a couple vigors continually counting down and being refreshed.

Firstmep

BalticBlues wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

Thank you for that image.
Isn't that a pitiful skill now?

5508 healing OVER 10 SECs is worth nothing, sorry.
My Stam toons do this damage is ONLY 1 SEC.
It's like you are protecting with a towel against swords.

Moreover, Echoing Vigor, the Stamina counterpart, heals ALL ppl close to you, not only three.
Radiating Regneration will be a DEAD SKILL with U35 if this goes live.
This is just another example where I think, "pls bring Wrobel back" to protect us.

You realise that's on a naked template charachter, right? On live on a toon with decent stats it's like 20-25 k over 10 seconds.
Going down to 5k over 10 sec would be an 80% nerf, not 40 as stated in the patch notes..

Astin_nds

Firstmep wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

Thank you for that image.
Isn't that a pitiful skill now?

5508 healing OVER 10 SECs is worth nothing, sorry.
My Stam toons do this damage is ONLY 1 SEC.
It's like you are protecting with a towel against swords.

Moreover, Echoing Vigor, the Stamina counterpart, heals ALL ppl close to you, not only three.
Radiating Regneration will be a DEAD SKILL with U35 if this goes live.
This is just another example where I think, "pls bring Wrobel back" to protect us.

You realise that's on a naked template charachter, right? On live on a toon with decent stats it's like 20-25 k over 10 seconds.
Going down to 5k over 10 sec would be an 80% nerf, not 40 as stated in the patch notes..

You realise that's on a naked template charachter, right? On live on a toon with decent stats it's like 20-25 k over 10 seconds.
Going down to 5k over 10 sec would be an 80% nerf, not 40 as stated in the patch notes.. [/quote]





You do realize that it's not the same skill, right? , you do realize that Resolving VIGOR is these two skills together right? , you realize that apart from Resolving now it has minor resolve that gives you resistance, right? , You do realize that you need almost x2 magical resources to heal yourself, right? , you realize that on top of regeneration you can stay without healing sometimes, right? , I think it is very logical that this needs a review, not lower VIGOR, NO, what you need is to match regeneration, end.XDD

Astin_nds

Please Devs , ESO devs , that not is good we need tu use x2 skills for get a little big of 1 , and dont get the same heal and dont get defense help!

Astin_nds

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

I wish Resto skill lines would heal the caster AND others instead of 'or'.

Yes me too :,c

IAmIcehouse

Astin_nds wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

Thank you for that image.
Isn't that a pitiful skill now?

5508 healing OVER 10 SECs is worth nothing, sorry.
My Stam toons do this damage is ONLY 1 SEC.
It's like you are protecting with a towel against swords.

Moreover, Echoing Vigor, the Stamina counterpart, heals ALL ppl close to you, not only three.
Radiating Regneration will be a DEAD SKILL with U35 if this goes live.
This is just another example where I think, "pls bring Wrobel back" to protect us.

You realise that's on a naked template charachter, right? On live on a toon with decent stats it's like 20-25 k over 10 seconds.
Going down to 5k over 10 sec would be an 80% nerf, not 40 as stated in the patch notes..

You realise that's on a naked template charachter, right? On live on a toon with decent stats it's like 20-25 k over 10 seconds.
Going down to 5k over 10 sec would be an 80% nerf, not 40 as stated in the patch notes..

You do realize that it's not the same skill, right? , you do realize that Resolving VIGOR is these two skills together right? , you realize that apart from Resolving now it has minor resolve that gives you resistance, right? , You do realize that you need almost x2 magical resources to heal yourself, right? , you realize that on top of regeneration you can stay without healing sometimes, right? , I think it is very logical that this needs a review, not lower VIGOR, NO, what you need is to match regeneration, end.XDD



[/quote]

Rapid regen is also a group heal. Skills that can heal yourself and other players should and do have lower tooltips than those that can only heal yourself.

Keep in mind, the tooltip here is 13k, but also has scaling based on target health. So in practice its closer to 16k.

Astin_nds

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

Extinct_Solo_Player wrote: »

Thank you for that image.
Isn't that a pitiful skill now?

5508 healing OVER 10 SECs is worth nothing, sorry.
My Stam toons do this damage is ONLY 1 SEC.
It's like you are protecting with a towel against swords.

Moreover, Echoing Vigor, the Stamina counterpart, heals ALL ppl close to you, not only three.
Radiating Regneration will be a DEAD SKILL with U35 if this goes live.
This is just another example where I think, "pls bring Wrobel back" to protect us.

You realise that's on a naked template charachter, right? On live on a toon with decent stats it's like 20-25 k over 10 seconds.
Going down to 5k over 10 sec would be an 80% nerf, not 40 as stated in the patch notes..

You realise that's on a naked template charachter, right? On live on a toon with decent stats it's like 20-25 k over 10 seconds.
Going down to 5k over 10 sec would be an 80% nerf, not 40 as stated in the patch notes..

You do realize that it's not the same skill, right? , you do realize that Resolving VIGOR is these two skills together right? , you realize that apart from Resolving now it has minor resolve that gives you resistance, right? , You do realize that you need almost x2 magical resources to heal yourself, right? , you realize that on top of regeneration you can stay without healing sometimes, right? , I think it is very logical that this needs a review, not lower VIGOR, NO, what you need is to match regeneration, end.XDD

Rapid regen is also a group heal. Skills that can heal yourself and other players should and do have lower tooltips than those that can only heal yourself.

Keep in mind, the tooltip here is 13k, but also has scaling based on target health. So in practice its closer to 16k.[/quote]

---

I think you are not looking at the issue from the point of view that we are all looking at it and you are wrong on one point.

1- Regeneration You need to use if or if first restoration staff fixes you a specific weapon.
2-Seconds as you can see Vigor too He can heal everyone around him INCLUDING yourself with no player limit.





As you can see the "same" or "similar" or "counterpart" part of restoration staff, heals less time, and has a limit of 3 players IMPORTANT EYE! , YOU count too, if you heal yourself it's YOU and 2 more, if you heal 3 at once YOU DON'T heal yourself you stay sold.

3- Regarding the times we can see this:
ECHOING VIGOR:
7911 x 16 seconds = 494 hp per second for 16 seconds (Unlimited players healing around you and YOU always heal)

RADIATING REGENERATION:
5508 x 10 seconds = 550 hp per second for 10 seconds (MAXIMUM limit of 3 players YOU included as part of those 3 , not YOU and 3 . IT'S YOU and 2 , if you manage to heal of course.)

-In terms of healed life we ​​can see that these do not differ much BUT, yes in the amount of time, yes in that you always heal AND yes A LOT in the number of players who heal and we add that for regeneration you need a cane yes or yes healing, do not combine with shields or ice staff etc...

On the other hand we have:

RESOLVING VIGOR and RAPID REGENERATION



, although in the previous one it is seen how the Vigor part (Stamina) widely wins, it can be Supported and used even if it has a limit and lasts 60% longer than regeneration since it only lasts 10 vs 16.
Well between these 2 morph things get much more complicated (MUCH).
On the live server you can see that both Resolving Vigor and Rapid Regeneration heal practically THE SAME, and Resolving Vigor does not give minor resolve on the live server (Buff to resistances), The fact is that now Rapid Regeneration is the part of EXPLOSION of healing and Resolving Vigor the other EXPLOSION of the stamina part have something...

-Resolving Vigor , Update 8.1.4 , The healing reductions we put in the updates were DELETED.
(Basically it will heal almost like on the live server, that is, they are good enough), on top of that we add minor resolve... super necessary for more defenses (20s )... yes...

-Rapid Renegeration, We lowered a 40% of PERMANENT healing... THE END. NO minor buffs etc. (Apart from this ability of 1 ONLY TARGET, it means that it heals ONLY 1 player and YOU count too, if YOU heal yourself, NO ONE else heals, if you heal one in front of you ... then you don't heal big F. )


Final score:
-Renegeration LOSES, in the group healing version a bit.
-Regeneration LOSES, on the 1-target healing version WIDELY.
And always remember that we will be forced to use other staff.

Now to be able to heal yourself the same as someone with a single Resolving vigor you will need:
-Rapid regeneration + Radiating regeneration + some skill that gives you minor resolve, and even then you fall short when healing.

As you can see regeneration can practically be erased AND restoration STAFF skill line Also... xD because everyone will use vigor and end.
However, those of us who are magickas are very, very screwed, because we need to change to hybrids or full staminas...

I hope that with this it is clear that there is a decompensation AND BEWARE, I do not want NERFS to Vigor, I WANT BUFFS to regeneration so that it is the SAME as VIGOR as it is at least on the live server, if I have to use 100% a rest staff should be minimal anyway ... I think we're going (Always remember that these regeneration skills DO NOT GUARANTEE to heal you, the player limit includes you)

---

Astin_nds

---

add + One thing that people do not see is that some say 50% more if they lower your life, they do not think....
If you take a skill that heals 20k (for example), you lower it by 40%, 40% of 20k is 8k. 20k - 8k = 12k, now 50% of 12K is not 50% of 20k, which means that 12k + 50% (6k) you get at most 18k only when you have less life not always, still quite behind the Heal from Resolve Vigor and on top of that it doesn't give you resistances...

Vetixio

The current combat team are very Stam and Nightblade focused, maybe Gilliam should play another class and then the 'balance' may be less skewed in Stamina's favour.

MidniteOwl1913

Vetixio wrote: »

The current combat team are very Stam and Nightblade focused, maybe Gilliam should play another class and then the 'balance' may be less skewed in Stamina's favour.

Oh, that explains a lot. I wondered why Magika was getting so much of the fuzzy end of the lollipop...

Astin_nds

Vetixio wrote: »

The current combat team are very Stam and Nightblade focused, maybe Gilliam should play another class and then the 'balance' may be less skewed in Stamina's favour.

+1 @ZOS_Gilliam

Astin_nds

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

The current combat team are very Stam and Nightblade focused, maybe Gilliam should play another class and then the 'balance' may be less skewed in Stamina's favour.

Oh, that explains a lot. I wondered why Magika was getting so much of the fuzzy end of the lollipop...

Devs Loves staminas , and hate Magickas .... 2015 is the last year with magicka balance... 2015 - 2022 magicka hit with ducks! , (Duck sound when hits , and now when healing too xD)

Firstmep

They love stamina that's why they buffed concealed weapon to a god tier spammable, radiant oppression(which was already one the best executes) to the moon and back, blazing spear to hit as hard as most melee spammables.
In a pvp meta where resto backbar is the default defensive weapon while providing insane cross healing I just cant feel bad for having it nerfed.
Even stam focused builds run resto backbar it's that strong.

Also stam focused players have had to build extra mag sustain since the hybrid changes, now mag will have to do the same for their off stat.
Seems like balance to me.

Vetixio

Firstmep wrote: »

They love stamina that's why they buffed concealed weapon to a god tier spammable, radiant oppression(which was already one the best executes) to the moon and back, blazing spear to hit as hard as most melee spammables.
In a pvp meta where resto backbar is the default defensive weapon while providing insane cross healing I just cant feel bad for having it nerfed.
Even stam focused builds run resto backbar it's that strong.

Also stam focused players have had to build extra mag sustain since the hybrid changes, now mag will have to do the same for their off stat.
Seems like balance to me.

Stamina builds can actually use their off stat tho whereas Magicka builds can’t unless you want to be stun locked and die as not having enough Stam to block or break free. Concealed Weapon, Impale and Radiant have all been buffed because the rest of the kits have been nerfed. Besides those small buffs do not stop the fact that Stamina builds have better damage, cheaper skills, no debuffs on their armour type (Medium Armor, I still don’t know who thought giving Light armor the squishiest armor type more physical damage received imo stamina should have the more Magicka damage instead of Heavy Armor), better self heals and survivability (through dodge roll spam and they can block more), better mobility (on the whole minus Magsorc and maybe Magblade).

FeedbackOnly

Dojohoda wrote: »

I might be off the message of the topic and apologies if I am.

A method to improve the heal: Heavy attack with your restoration staff, get 4 seconds of major mending, immediately use vigor. Unfortunately for this 4 second buff is that Vigor lasts longer than the buff.

Might also be useful to test which trait and enchantment to best buff the heals from vigor on mag-toon.
-Powered versus nirnhoned
-Weapon damage enchantment versus something you need more (for example, the stamina return).

You gain Major Mending for 4 seconds after completing a fully-charged Heavy Attack, increasing your healing done by 16%. You also heal yourself or an ally within 15 meters of the target for 50% of the damage inflicted by the final hit of a fully-charged Heavy Attack.

Powered still wins by a good margin, but with rr precise trait might be the better solution

Astin_nds

FeedbackOnly wrote: »

Dojohoda wrote: »

I might be off the message of the topic and apologies if I am.

A method to improve the heal: Heavy attack with your restoration staff, get 4 seconds of major mending, immediately use vigor. Unfortunately for this 4 second buff is that Vigor lasts longer than the buff.

Might also be useful to test which trait and enchantment to best buff the heals from vigor on mag-toon.
-Powered versus nirnhoned
-Weapon damage enchantment versus something you need more (for example, the stamina return).

You gain Major Mending for 4 seconds after completing a fully-charged Heavy Attack, increasing your healing done by 16%. You also heal yourself or an ally within 15 meters of the target for 50% of the damage inflicted by the final hit of a fully-charged Heavy Attack.

Powered still wins by a good margin, but with rr precise trait might be the better solution

If you take a skill that heals 20k (for example), you lower it by 40%, 40% of 20k is 8k. 20k - 8k = 12k, now 50% of 12K is not 50% of 20k, which means that 12k + 50% (6k) , + 16% of 12k , only durin 4 seconds , 1900 , only on 4 seconds you got this 1900 / 5s = 380+ for 4s every second.... not is the best.. is nothing , getting all you only got around 19900 heal , getting all posible bonuses... and for 4 second the most mopwerfull heal...
Resolving vigor , boomb 20k+ , minor defense boom 20s , now stamina necromancer use skill clas boom , major resolve , now use the guardian spirit BOm 10% mitigation....
STAMINA = EXTREME BROKEN

we NEED balance

Firstmep

Mayrael wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

I feel like we are talking about eso from like 2 years ago or something. If you think vigor is strong then use it, period.
If you want rapid regen, so you can heal others, use it. Or use both, plenty of people already do.

Magicka(s) this Stamina(s) that, we are hybrids now so its whatever.

Vetixio wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

They love stamina that's why they buffed concealed weapon to a god tier spammable, radiant oppression(which was already one the best executes) to the moon and back, blazing spear to hit as hard as most melee spammables.
In a pvp meta where resto backbar is the default defensive weapon while providing insane cross healing I just cant feel bad for having it nerfed.
Even stam focused builds run resto backbar it's that strong.

Also stam focused players have had to build extra mag sustain since the hybrid changes, now mag will have to do the same for their off stat.
Seems like balance to me.

Stamina builds can actually use their off stat tho whereas Magicka builds can’t unless you want to be stun locked and die as not having enough Stam to block or break free. Concealed Weapon, Impale and Radiant have all been buffed because the rest of the kits have been nerfed. Besides those small buffs to not stop the fact that Stamina builds have better damage, cheaper skills, no debuffs on their armour type (Medium Armor, I still don’t know who thought giving Light armor the squishiest armor type more physical damage received imo stamina should have the more Magicka damage instead of Heavy Armor), better self heals and survivability (through dodge roll spam and they can block more), better mobility (on the whole minus Magsorc and maybe Magblade).

Sustaining 2.4 k stam every 5 seconds for vigor is really not that big of a deal, unless you specifically dont have any stam sustain.
These days you can easily run around with 20k plus max stam on most magicka builds.
The tools are out there.

Astin_nds

Vetixio wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

They love stamina that's why they buffed concealed weapon to a god tier spammable, radiant oppression(which was already one the best executes) to the moon and back, blazing spear to hit as hard as most melee spammables.
In a pvp meta where resto backbar is the default defensive weapon while providing insane cross healing I just cant feel bad for having it nerfed.
Even stam focused builds run resto backbar it's that strong.

Also stam focused players have had to build extra mag sustain since the hybrid changes, now mag will have to do the same for their off stat.
Seems like balance to me.

Stamina builds can actually use their off stat tho whereas Magicka builds can’t unless you want to be stun locked and die as not having enough Stam to block or break free. Concealed Weapon, Impale and Radiant have all been buffed because the rest of the kits have been nerfed. Besides those small buffs do not stop the fact that Stamina builds have better damage, cheaper skills, no debuffs on their armour type (Medium Armor, I still don’t know who thought giving Light armor the squishiest armor type more physical damage received imo stamina should have the more Magicka damage instead of Heavy Armor), better self heals and survivability (through dodge roll spam and they can block more), better mobility (on the whole minus Magsorc and maybe Magblade).

+1

IAmIcehouse

Vetixio wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

They love stamina that's why they buffed concealed weapon to a god tier spammable, radiant oppression(which was already one the best executes) to the moon and back, blazing spear to hit as hard as most melee spammables.
In a pvp meta where resto backbar is the default defensive weapon while providing insane cross healing I just cant feel bad for having it nerfed.
Even stam focused builds run resto backbar it's that strong.

Also stam focused players have had to build extra mag sustain since the hybrid changes, now mag will have to do the same for their off stat.
Seems like balance to me.

Stamina builds can actually use their off stat tho whereas Magicka builds can’t unless you want to be stun locked and die as not having enough Stam to block or break free. Concealed Weapon, Impale and Radiant have all been buffed because the rest of the kits have been nerfed. Besides those small buffs do not stop the fact that Stamina builds have better damage, cheaper skills, no debuffs on their armour type (Medium Armor, I still don’t know who thought giving Light armor the squishiest armor type more physical damage received imo stamina should have the more Magicka damage instead of Heavy Armor), better self heals and survivability (through dodge roll spam and they can block more), better mobility (on the whole minus Magsorc and maybe Magblade).

I have exclusively played mag specs this patch and I use vigor on all of them, and on most of my builds, I can keep up vigor ~75% of the time in fights without ever gassing stam. Vigor is very cheap-resource wise.

If you build into no recovery then that's a totally different issue and has nothing to do with vigor being strong.

Astin_nds

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

They love stamina that's why they buffed concealed weapon to a god tier spammable, radiant oppression(which was already one the best executes) to the moon and back, blazing spear to hit as hard as most melee spammables.
In a pvp meta where resto backbar is the default defensive weapon while providing insane cross healing I just cant feel bad for having it nerfed.
Even stam focused builds run resto backbar it's that strong.

Also stam focused players have had to build extra mag sustain since the hybrid changes, now mag will have to do the same for their off stat.
Seems like balance to me.

Stamina builds can actually use their off stat tho whereas Magicka builds can’t unless you want to be stun locked and die as not having enough Stam to block or break free. Concealed Weapon, Impale and Radiant have all been buffed because the rest of the kits have been nerfed. Besides those small buffs do not stop the fact that Stamina builds have better damage, cheaper skills, no debuffs on their armour type (Medium Armor, I still don’t know who thought giving Light armor the squishiest armor type more physical damage received imo stamina should have the more Magicka damage instead of Heavy Armor), better self heals and survivability (through dodge roll spam and they can block more), better mobility (on the whole minus Magsorc and maybe Magblade).

I have exclusively played mag specs this patch and I use vigor on all of them, and on most of my builds, I can keep up vigor ~75% of the time in fights without ever gassing stam. Vigor is very cheap-resource wise.

If you build into no recovery then that's a totally different issue and has nothing to do with vigor being strong.

You are leaving the thread, the thing is not that vigor is strong, Vigor and regeneration are the SAME on live server, but with this update they will NOT be the same and by A LOT, the thing is that it is not balanced, THE END, nerfs are not requested from Vigor , BUFFS are required to balance Regeneration, do you see normal that a person with a shield and sword with 1 echoing Vigor heals EVERYONE without limit around him and on top of it MORE than a healer? Do you see normal that a person with resolving vigor heals x2 more times and has minor resolve included for 20s than a healer with Rapid regeneration? , Simply NO.
This means that restoration staffs, Healers etc etc, go out of the game both pve and pvp, it is ultra viable 2 tanks or 1 tank and all DPS... healers disappear... END

IAmIcehouse

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

They love stamina that's why they buffed concealed weapon to a god tier spammable, radiant oppression(which was already one the best executes) to the moon and back, blazing spear to hit as hard as most melee spammables.
In a pvp meta where resto backbar is the default defensive weapon while providing insane cross healing I just cant feel bad for having it nerfed.
Even stam focused builds run resto backbar it's that strong.

Also stam focused players have had to build extra mag sustain since the hybrid changes, now mag will have to do the same for their off stat.
Seems like balance to me.

Stamina builds can actually use their off stat tho whereas Magicka builds can’t unless you want to be stun locked and die as not having enough Stam to block or break free. Concealed Weapon, Impale and Radiant have all been buffed because the rest of the kits have been nerfed. Besides those small buffs do not stop the fact that Stamina builds have better damage, cheaper skills, no debuffs on their armour type (Medium Armor, I still don’t know who thought giving Light armor the squishiest armor type more physical damage received imo stamina should have the more Magicka damage instead of Heavy Armor), better self heals and survivability (through dodge roll spam and they can block more), better mobility (on the whole minus Magsorc and maybe Magblade).

I have exclusively played mag specs this patch and I use vigor on all of them, and on most of my builds, I can keep up vigor ~75% of the time in fights without ever gassing stam. Vigor is very cheap-resource wise.

If you build into no recovery then that's a totally different issue and has nothing to do with vigor being strong.

You are leaving the thread, the thing is not that vigor is strong, Vigor and regeneration are the SAME on live server, but with this update they will NOT be the same and by A LOT, the thing is that it is not balanced, THE END, nerfs are not requested from Vigor , BUFFS are required to balance Regeneration, do you see normal that a person with a shield and sword with 1 echoing Vigor heals EVERYONE without limit around him and on top of it MORE than a healer? Do you see normal that a person with resolving vigor heals x2 more times and has minor resolve included for 20s than a healer with Rapid regeneration? , Simply NO.
This means that restoration staffs, Healers etc etc, go out of the game both pve and pvp, it is ultra viable 2 tanks or 1 tank and all DPS... healers disappear... END

Regeneration heals other targets, not just yourself. Resolving Vigor is a self-applied heal. A self-only heal should always be stronger than a target-applied heal. And Echoing vigor is still getting nerfed. So no, Healers will still be as much of a thing as they are now. All it means is brainlessly casting RR is less effective and you may have to utilize reactionary healing, if you're a healer.

Astin_nds

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

They love stamina that's why they buffed concealed weapon to a god tier spammable, radiant oppression(which was already one the best executes) to the moon and back, blazing spear to hit as hard as most melee spammables.
In a pvp meta where resto backbar is the default defensive weapon while providing insane cross healing I just cant feel bad for having it nerfed.
Even stam focused builds run resto backbar it's that strong.

Also stam focused players have had to build extra mag sustain since the hybrid changes, now mag will have to do the same for their off stat.
Seems like balance to me.

Stamina builds can actually use their off stat tho whereas Magicka builds can’t unless you want to be stun locked and die as not having enough Stam to block or break free. Concealed Weapon, Impale and Radiant have all been buffed because the rest of the kits have been nerfed. Besides those small buffs do not stop the fact that Stamina builds have better damage, cheaper skills, no debuffs on their armour type (Medium Armor, I still don’t know who thought giving Light armor the squishiest armor type more physical damage received imo stamina should have the more Magicka damage instead of Heavy Armor), better self heals and survivability (through dodge roll spam and they can block more), better mobility (on the whole minus Magsorc and maybe Magblade).

I have exclusively played mag specs this patch and I use vigor on all of them, and on most of my builds, I can keep up vigor ~75% of the time in fights without ever gassing stam. Vigor is very cheap-resource wise.

If you build into no recovery then that's a totally different issue and has nothing to do with vigor being strong.

You are leaving the thread, the thing is not that vigor is strong, Vigor and regeneration are the SAME on live server, but with this update they will NOT be the same and by A LOT, the thing is that it is not balanced, THE END, nerfs are not requested from Vigor , BUFFS are required to balance Regeneration, do you see normal that a person with a shield and sword with 1 echoing Vigor heals EVERYONE without limit around him and on top of it MORE than a healer? Do you see normal that a person with resolving vigor heals x2 more times and has minor resolve included for 20s than a healer with Rapid regeneration? , Simply NO.
This means that restoration staffs, Healers etc etc, go out of the game both pve and pvp, it is ultra viable 2 tanks or 1 tank and all DPS... healers disappear... END

Regeneration heals other targets, not just yourself. Resolving Vigor is a self-applied heal. A self-only heal should always be stronger than a target-applied heal. And Echoing vigor is still getting nerfed. So no, Healers will still be as much of a thing as they are now. All it means is brainlessly casting RR is less effective and you may have to utilize reactionary healing, if you're a healer.

I have to read you that what rapid regeneration is from 1 target sun? , it means that if you heal someone , YOU do not heal yourself . Or do you already know?
Because many believe that I heal myself AND another, but not my friend NO...
You heal YOU or the one in front, ALWAYS prioritizing the one in front, what does this mean? , that in PVP if they all use Resolving Vigor they have more healing more defense ETC ..
what does it mean in pve? ,
That the tanks will carry echoing Vigor, because it has no healing limit, and I'm not saying it, only the most experienced in the game say it, which surely is neither YOU nor me.
I repeat again we are looking for BALANCE, do not look for 5 legs to a cat because it benefits you more or LESS, you will tell me when you go to pvp for example and you run into a Necromancer STAMINA, who uses his class skill, better resolve + 5.9k resistances , use Resolving Vigor and get very high healing plus minor resolve , 2.9k resistances = approx 8k free resistances while healing a lot... you won't even tickle him , and so many other classes :;) , again once again BALANCE is sought, not to break the game

IAmIcehouse

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

They love stamina that's why they buffed concealed weapon to a god tier spammable, radiant oppression(which was already one the best executes) to the moon and back, blazing spear to hit as hard as most melee spammables.
In a pvp meta where resto backbar is the default defensive weapon while providing insane cross healing I just cant feel bad for having it nerfed.
Even stam focused builds run resto backbar it's that strong.

Also stam focused players have had to build extra mag sustain since the hybrid changes, now mag will have to do the same for their off stat.
Seems like balance to me.

Stamina builds can actually use their off stat tho whereas Magicka builds can’t unless you want to be stun locked and die as not having enough Stam to block or break free. Concealed Weapon, Impale and Radiant have all been buffed because the rest of the kits have been nerfed. Besides those small buffs do not stop the fact that Stamina builds have better damage, cheaper skills, no debuffs on their armour type (Medium Armor, I still don’t know who thought giving Light armor the squishiest armor type more physical damage received imo stamina should have the more Magicka damage instead of Heavy Armor), better self heals and survivability (through dodge roll spam and they can block more), better mobility (on the whole minus Magsorc and maybe Magblade).

I have exclusively played mag specs this patch and I use vigor on all of them, and on most of my builds, I can keep up vigor ~75% of the time in fights without ever gassing stam. Vigor is very cheap-resource wise.

If you build into no recovery then that's a totally different issue and has nothing to do with vigor being strong.

You are leaving the thread, the thing is not that vigor is strong, Vigor and regeneration are the SAME on live server, but with this update they will NOT be the same and by A LOT, the thing is that it is not balanced, THE END, nerfs are not requested from Vigor , BUFFS are required to balance Regeneration, do you see normal that a person with a shield and sword with 1 echoing Vigor heals EVERYONE without limit around him and on top of it MORE than a healer? Do you see normal that a person with resolving vigor heals x2 more times and has minor resolve included for 20s than a healer with Rapid regeneration? , Simply NO.
This means that restoration staffs, Healers etc etc, go out of the game both pve and pvp, it is ultra viable 2 tanks or 1 tank and all DPS... healers disappear... END

Regeneration heals other targets, not just yourself. Resolving Vigor is a self-applied heal. A self-only heal should always be stronger than a target-applied heal. And Echoing vigor is still getting nerfed. So no, Healers will still be as much of a thing as they are now. All it means is brainlessly casting RR is less effective and you may have to utilize reactionary healing, if you're a healer.

I have to read you that what rapid regeneration is from 1 target sun? , it means that if you heal someone , YOU do not heal yourself . Or do you already know?
Because many believe that I heal myself AND another, but not my friend NO...
You heal YOU or the one in front, ALWAYS prioritizing the one in front, what does this mean? , that in PVP if they all use Resolving Vigor they have more healing more defense ETC ..
what does it mean in pve? ,
That the tanks will carry echoing Vigor, because it has no healing limit, and I'm not saying it, only the most experienced in the game say it, which surely is neither YOU nor me.
I repeat again we are looking for BALANCE, do not look for 5 legs to a cat because it benefits you more or LESS, you will tell me when you go to pvp for example and you run into a Necromancer STAMINA, who uses his class skill, better resolve + 5.9k resistances , use Resolving Vigor and get very high healing plus minor resolve , 2.9k resistances = approx 8k free resistances while healing a lot... you won't even tickle him , and so many other classes :;) , again once again BALANCE is sought, not to break the game

No, you misread what I wrote. Regen can heal you, or another. Resolving Vigor only heals yourself. A skill that can only heal you has less utility and cannot stack (since there is only one source) thus should be compensated by a higher tooltip.

IAmIcehouse

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

Astin_nds

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

Astin_nds

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

A person mentioned something like this before, check previous posts in the thread, you will surely see some comments

Unified_Gaming

FriendlyGuy wrote: »

Allmost all burst heals and class heals are magicka based, so you have that going for you. Stamina basically only has vigor as a reliable heal so it is fine that it didnt get nerfed in the end. Healing on magicka specs will just be different but not worse at all. Stamina will rely on vigor while magicka will use class burst heals. As a magicka based spec you can still use vigor, just not that often. A strong vigor also allows classes like sorc to not be forced to run resto backbar which is honestly a good thing.

The issue is the use if off stat. For stamina, their off stat (magicka) is dumped for utility or heals. Their primary resource stamina is used for damage and movement I.e. roll dodge usually <2k stam.

Now looking at magicka, their off stat is stamina. The issue is stamina is used for sprint, roll dodge, break free and block. Due to lacking medium passives roll dodge for magicka is usually 3k and break free too. This means a CC break and a roll dodge is about 1/3 or more of a stamina bar for magicka. If you added vigor into this then magicka builds would spend 50% of their stamina or more to break free, vigor roll dodge cancel. The next stun would likely stun lock them.

As a result, stamina builds in pvp don't have any real punishment for burning thier off stat yet magicka builds do. The new changes in update 35 making all buffs last longer will also give stamina even more magicka to play with.

What further makes this issue worse is hybridisation. Most stamina builds are now using magicka heals as they often have spare magicka. This is further exacerbated as healing scales favourably with spell/weapon damage and medium passives give this whereas light armour gives pen not boosting heals. As a result, stamina now have access to magicka heals and with using some medium or full medium, their healing is even higher than magicka.

Due to this, all of my stamina builds and many other pvp players I see are using magicka class heals on their stamina builds.

My stam nightblade uses shrewd offering and gets 10k+ heals and can be spammed 4-6 times. The tool tip is 15k approximately. Stamina Dragonknights use coagulation blood. Stamplars use honour the dead which has 13k+ tool tips and refunds itself a lot. Stamina necromancer in pvp uses resistant flesh again getting 10k+ burst crit heals as well as intensive mender. Wardens and sorcerers do lack options but that is down to weaker class heals with sorcerers needing pets and warden lacking burst healing.

As such, I'd agree with others that magicka healing is lacking when comparing vigor to rapid regen especially that they are both single target heals.

The best solution for vigor is making resolving vigor have a toggle letting you pick its cost or make its cost come from your primary attribute.

I would also suggest adjusting the light armour concentration passive to this:
Each piece of light armour increases your offensive penetration by 990 (1.5% slight buff from 931) and your healing done by 1%.

Regarding rapid regen, I'd suggest that you make it not do bonus healing when lower health but instead when below 50% health the heal accelerates giving the healing up to 100% faster. Making it good to use in a panic to get rapid healing.

Any feedback would be great!

@Astin_nds you may find this interesting ^^^