MAGICKAS! WE HAVE A BIG PROBLEM !!! MAGICKAS !!!! (Healers too, Where is the balance?)

IAmIcehouse

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

Astin_nds

Unified_Gaming wrote: »

FriendlyGuy wrote: »

Allmost all burst heals and class heals are magicka based, so you have that going for you. Stamina basically only has vigor as a reliable heal so it is fine that it didnt get nerfed in the end. Healing on magicka specs will just be different but not worse at all. Stamina will rely on vigor while magicka will use class burst heals. As a magicka based spec you can still use vigor, just not that often. A strong vigor also allows classes like sorc to not be forced to run resto backbar which is honestly a good thing.

The issue is the use if off stat. For stamina, their off stat (magicka) is dumped for utility or heals. Their primary resource stamina is used for damage and movement I.e. roll dodge usually <2k stam.

Now looking at magicka, their off stat is stamina. The issue is stamina is used for sprint, roll dodge, break free and block. Due to lacking medium passives roll dodge for magicka is usually 3k and break free too. This means a CC break and a roll dodge is about 1/3 or more of a stamina bar for magicka. If you added vigor into this then magicka builds would spend 50% of their stamina or more to break free, vigor roll dodge cancel. The next stun would likely stun lock them.

As a result, stamina builds in pvp don't have any real punishment for burning thier off stat yet magicka builds do. The new changes in update 35 making all buffs last longer will also give stamina even more magicka to play with.

What further makes this issue worse is hybridisation. Most stamina builds are now using magicka heals as they often have spare magicka. This is further exacerbated as healing scales favourably with spell/weapon damage and medium passives give this whereas light armour gives pen not boosting heals. As a result, stamina now have access to magicka heals and with using some medium or full medium, their healing is even higher than magicka.

Due to this, all of my stamina builds and many other pvp players I see are using magicka class heals on their stamina builds.

My stam nightblade uses shrewd offering and gets 10k+ heals and can be spammed 4-6 times. The tool tip is 15k approximately. Stamina Dragonknights use coagulation blood. Stamplars use honour the dead which has 13k+ tool tips and refunds itself a lot. Stamina necromancer in pvp uses resistant flesh again getting 10k+ burst crit heals as well as intensive mender. Wardens and sorcerers do lack options but that is down to weaker class heals with sorcerers needing pets and warden lacking burst healing.

As such, I'd agree with others that magicka healing is lacking when comparing vigor to rapid regen especially that they are both single target heals.

The best solution for vigor is making resolving vigor have a toggle letting you pick its cost or make its cost come from your primary attribute.

I would also suggest adjusting the light armour concentration passive to this:
Each piece of light armour increases your offensive penetration by 990 (1.5% slight buff from 931) and your healing done by 1%.

Regarding rapid regen, I'd suggest that you make it not do bonus healing when lower health but instead when below 50% health the heal accelerates giving the healing up to 100% faster. Making it good to use in a panic to get rapid healing.

Any feedback would be great!

@Astin_nds you may find this interesting ^^^

Very very interesting your comment the truth and you are very right, in some comment comment the following:
"Vigor should use resources depending on your WP or your SP, or, the HIGHEST resource", this DOES mean that everyone could use it.

Astin_nds

but not is the perfect solve because the healers with resto staff? need balance F

Astin_nds

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

IAmIcehouse

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Astin_nds

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

IAmIcehouse

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

I mean, I am against the nerf of Dark Cloak. I think it's a ridiculous nerf. On live, it's comparable to vigor and now it's gutted. I think vigor is in line with bubble. Wraith. Blood Magic. I am, however, pro-target applied hots should be weaker than self-applied hots. And that's what nerfing Resto staff does. Resto should be healer only. The fact that resto backbar has been best-in-slot on almost all specs for so long is, IMO, stupid. It should be for healers, not for DDs. So I stand by that self-applied HoTs should always be stronger than target-applied hots.

Astin_nds

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

I mean, I am against the nerf of Dark Cloak. I think it's a ridiculous nerf. On live, it's comparable to vigor and now it's gutted. I think vigor is in line with bubble. Wraith. Blood Magic. I am, however, pro-target applied hots should be weaker than self-applied hots. And that's what nerfing Resto staff does. Resto should be healer only. The fact that resto backbar has been best-in-slot on almost all specs for so long is, IMO, stupid. It should be for healers, not for DDs. So I stand by that self-applied HoTs should always be stronger than target-applied hots.

just... okay

IAmIcehouse

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

I mean, I am against the nerf of Dark Cloak. I think it's a ridiculous nerf. On live, it's comparable to vigor and now it's gutted. I think vigor is in line with bubble. Wraith. Blood Magic. I am, however, pro-target applied hots should be weaker than self-applied hots. And that's what nerfing Resto staff does. Resto should be healer only. The fact that resto backbar has been best-in-slot on almost all specs for so long is, IMO, stupid. It should be for healers, not for DDs. So I stand by that self-applied HoTs should always be stronger than target-applied hots.

just... okay

Yes, Regen is a target-applied heal. Meaning you can cast this on other people. Meaning people can cast this on themselves. Meaning you can have 5 stacks of Regen on you. It should 100% be weaker than a skill that cannot stack. I do not get the debate here.

Astin_nds

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

I mean, I am against the nerf of Dark Cloak. I think it's a ridiculous nerf. On live, it's comparable to vigor and now it's gutted. I think vigor is in line with bubble. Wraith. Blood Magic. I am, however, pro-target applied hots should be weaker than self-applied hots. And that's what nerfing Resto staff does. Resto should be healer only. The fact that resto backbar has been best-in-slot on almost all specs for so long is, IMO, stupid. It should be for healers, not for DDs. So I stand by that self-applied HoTs should always be stronger than target-applied hots.

just... okay

Yes, Regen is a target-applied heal. Meaning you can cast this on other people. Meaning people can cast this on themselves. Meaning you can have 5 stacks of Regen on you. It should 100% be weaker than a skill that cannot stack. I do not get the debate here.

Astin_nds

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

I mean, I am against the nerf of Dark Cloak. I think it's a ridiculous nerf. On live, it's comparable to vigor and now it's gutted. I think vigor is in line with bubble. Wraith. Blood Magic. I am, however, pro-target applied hots should be weaker than self-applied hots. And that's what nerfing Resto staff does. Resto should be healer only. The fact that resto backbar has been best-in-slot on almost all specs for so long is, IMO, stupid. It should be for healers, not for DDs. So I stand by that self-applied HoTs should always be stronger than target-applied hots.

just... okay

Yes, Regen is a target-applied heal. Meaning you can cast this on other people. Meaning people can cast this on themselves. Meaning you can have 5 stacks of Regen on you. It should 100% be weaker than a skill that cannot stack. I do not get the debate here.

Well, that's it, you're right, you win, gentlemen of the thread, we're all wrong, this player has given me very strong arguments, he's right, that's it... I'm not going to discuss the same thing anymore.

IAmIcehouse

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

I mean, I am against the nerf of Dark Cloak. I think it's a ridiculous nerf. On live, it's comparable to vigor and now it's gutted. I think vigor is in line with bubble. Wraith. Blood Magic. I am, however, pro-target applied hots should be weaker than self-applied hots. And that's what nerfing Resto staff does. Resto should be healer only. The fact that resto backbar has been best-in-slot on almost all specs for so long is, IMO, stupid. It should be for healers, not for DDs. So I stand by that self-applied HoTs should always be stronger than target-applied hots.

just... okay

Yes, Regen is a target-applied heal. Meaning you can cast this on other people. Meaning people can cast this on themselves. Meaning you can have 5 stacks of Regen on you. It should 100% be weaker than a skill that cannot stack. I do not get the debate here.

So these tick for the same? ~500 per tick? One is cheaper and has a larger radius, one lasts for a 60% longer and hits three additional people.

Both have their advantages. Both are worth running.

Edit: Radiating is also about 10% stronger. I mean, I don't get the issue here.

Astin_nds

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

I mean, I am against the nerf of Dark Cloak. I think it's a ridiculous nerf. On live, it's comparable to vigor and now it's gutted. I think vigor is in line with bubble. Wraith. Blood Magic. I am, however, pro-target applied hots should be weaker than self-applied hots. And that's what nerfing Resto staff does. Resto should be healer only. The fact that resto backbar has been best-in-slot on almost all specs for so long is, IMO, stupid. It should be for healers, not for DDs. So I stand by that self-applied HoTs should always be stronger than target-applied hots.

just... okay

Yes, Regen is a target-applied heal. Meaning you can cast this on other people. Meaning people can cast this on themselves. Meaning you can have 5 stacks of Regen on you. It should 100% be weaker than a skill that cannot stack. I do not get the debate here.

So these tick for the same? ~500 per tick? One is cheaper and has a larger radius, one lasts for a 60% longer and hits three additional people.

Both have their advantages. Both are worth running.

Edit: Radiating is also about 10% stronger. I mean, I don't get the issue here.

you dont see notihng , you dont see radiation can heal only 3 players , e.Vigor can heal infinite , if are 50 players heal the 50 players... you only see your lovely vigor , BALANCE MAN BALANCE

IAmIcehouse

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

I mean, I am against the nerf of Dark Cloak. I think it's a ridiculous nerf. On live, it's comparable to vigor and now it's gutted. I think vigor is in line with bubble. Wraith. Blood Magic. I am, however, pro-target applied hots should be weaker than self-applied hots. And that's what nerfing Resto staff does. Resto should be healer only. The fact that resto backbar has been best-in-slot on almost all specs for so long is, IMO, stupid. It should be for healers, not for DDs. So I stand by that self-applied HoTs should always be stronger than target-applied hots.

just... okay

Yes, Regen is a target-applied heal. Meaning you can cast this on other people. Meaning people can cast this on themselves. Meaning you can have 5 stacks of Regen on you. It should 100% be weaker than a skill that cannot stack. I do not get the debate here.

So these tick for the same? ~500 per tick? One is cheaper and has a larger radius, one lasts for a 60% longer and hits three additional people.

Both have their advantages. Both are worth running.

Edit: Radiating is also about 10% stronger. I mean, I don't get the issue here.

you dont see notihng , you dont see radiation can heal only 3 players , e.Vigor can heal infinite , if are 50 players heal the 50 players... you only see your lovely vigor , BALANCE MAN BALANCE

Echoing vigor has a target cap of 6.

Astin_nds

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

I mean, I am against the nerf of Dark Cloak. I think it's a ridiculous nerf. On live, it's comparable to vigor and now it's gutted. I think vigor is in line with bubble. Wraith. Blood Magic. I am, however, pro-target applied hots should be weaker than self-applied hots. And that's what nerfing Resto staff does. Resto should be healer only. The fact that resto backbar has been best-in-slot on almost all specs for so long is, IMO, stupid. It should be for healers, not for DDs. So I stand by that self-applied HoTs should always be stronger than target-applied hots.

just... okay

Yes, Regen is a target-applied heal. Meaning you can cast this on other people. Meaning people can cast this on themselves. Meaning you can have 5 stacks of Regen on you. It should 100% be weaker than a skill that cannot stack. I do not get the debate here.

So these tick for the same? ~500 per tick? One is cheaper and has a larger radius, one lasts for a 60% longer and hits three additional people.

Both have their advantages. Both are worth running.

Edit: Radiating is also about 10% stronger. I mean, I don't get the issue here.

you dont see notihng , you dont see radiation can heal only 3 players , e.Vigor can heal infinite , if are 50 players heal the 50 players... you only see your lovely vigor , BALANCE MAN BALANCE

Echoing vigor has a target cap of 6.

6 only? not bad only the x2 than radiation xD , man you win regeneration need another nerf to -100% of heal xD ty and gl

IAmIcehouse

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

I mean, I am against the nerf of Dark Cloak. I think it's a ridiculous nerf. On live, it's comparable to vigor and now it's gutted. I think vigor is in line with bubble. Wraith. Blood Magic. I am, however, pro-target applied hots should be weaker than self-applied hots. And that's what nerfing Resto staff does. Resto should be healer only. The fact that resto backbar has been best-in-slot on almost all specs for so long is, IMO, stupid. It should be for healers, not for DDs. So I stand by that self-applied HoTs should always be stronger than target-applied hots.

just... okay

Yes, Regen is a target-applied heal. Meaning you can cast this on other people. Meaning people can cast this on themselves. Meaning you can have 5 stacks of Regen on you. It should 100% be weaker than a skill that cannot stack. I do not get the debate here.

So these tick for the same? ~500 per tick? One is cheaper and has a larger radius, one lasts for a 60% longer and hits three additional people.

Both have their advantages. Both are worth running.

Edit: Radiating is also about 10% stronger. I mean, I don't get the issue here.

you dont see notihng , you dont see radiation can heal only 3 players , e.Vigor can heal infinite , if are 50 players heal the 50 players... you only see your lovely vigor , BALANCE MAN BALANCE

Echoing vigor has a target cap of 6.

6 only? not bad only the x2 than radiation xD , man you win regeneration need another nerf to -100% of heal xD ty and gl

Smaller radius, 10% weaker heal, 20% higher cost, can hit 3 additional people. Does not also benefit from Resto Skill line passives. Advantageous and disadvantages to running one skill over another.

tnanever

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

I mean, I am against the nerf of Dark Cloak. I think it's a ridiculous nerf. On live, it's comparable to vigor and now it's gutted. I think vigor is in line with bubble. Wraith. Blood Magic. I am, however, pro-target applied hots should be weaker than self-applied hots. And that's what nerfing Resto staff does. Resto should be healer only. The fact that resto backbar has been best-in-slot on almost all specs for so long is, IMO, stupid. It should be for healers, not for DDs. So I stand by that self-applied HoTs should always be stronger than target-applied hots.

just... okay

Yes, Regen is a target-applied heal. Meaning you can cast this on other people. Meaning people can cast this on themselves. Meaning you can have 5 stacks of Regen on you. It should 100% be weaker than a skill that cannot stack. I do not get the debate here.

So these tick for the same? ~500 per tick? One is cheaper and has a larger radius, one lasts for a 60% longer and hits three additional people.

Both have their advantages. Both are worth running.

Edit: Radiating is also about 10% stronger. I mean, I don't get the issue here.

you dont see notihng , you dont see radiation can heal only 3 players , e.Vigor can heal infinite , if are 50 players heal the 50 players... you only see your lovely vigor , BALANCE MAN BALANCE

Echoing vigor has a target cap of 6.

6 only? not bad only the x2 than radiation xD , man you win regeneration need another nerf to -100% of heal xD ty and gl

Smaller radius, 10% weaker heal, 20% higher cost, can hit 3 additional people. Does not also benefit from Resto Skill line passives. Advantageous and disadvantages to running one skill over another.

You're avoiding discussing the huge difference purposefully, because you main a stamina character and you want vigor to give you an unfair advantage over magicka characters.

We're all well aware, that vigor is available with any weapon, while restoration staff skills are - you guessed it - only usable while wielding a restoration staff. So yes, being able to spam dual-wield executes, 2-handed charges, and long distance stealth snipes while casting vigor on-demand is quite obviously broken when compared to restoration staff's regeneration.

There are so many issues with the game already, and this upcoming update just makes it much worse. What are the devs even thinking.

IAmIcehouse

tnanever wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

I mean, I am against the nerf of Dark Cloak. I think it's a ridiculous nerf. On live, it's comparable to vigor and now it's gutted. I think vigor is in line with bubble. Wraith. Blood Magic. I am, however, pro-target applied hots should be weaker than self-applied hots. And that's what nerfing Resto staff does. Resto should be healer only. The fact that resto backbar has been best-in-slot on almost all specs for so long is, IMO, stupid. It should be for healers, not for DDs. So I stand by that self-applied HoTs should always be stronger than target-applied hots.

just... okay

Yes, Regen is a target-applied heal. Meaning you can cast this on other people. Meaning people can cast this on themselves. Meaning you can have 5 stacks of Regen on you. It should 100% be weaker than a skill that cannot stack. I do not get the debate here.

So these tick for the same? ~500 per tick? One is cheaper and has a larger radius, one lasts for a 60% longer and hits three additional people.

Both have their advantages. Both are worth running.

Edit: Radiating is also about 10% stronger. I mean, I don't get the issue here.

you dont see notihng , you dont see radiation can heal only 3 players , e.Vigor can heal infinite , if are 50 players heal the 50 players... you only see your lovely vigor , BALANCE MAN BALANCE

Echoing vigor has a target cap of 6.

6 only? not bad only the x2 than radiation xD , man you win regeneration need another nerf to -100% of heal xD ty and gl

Smaller radius, 10% weaker heal, 20% higher cost, can hit 3 additional people. Does not also benefit from Resto Skill line passives. Advantageous and disadvantages to running one skill over another.

You're avoiding discussing the huge difference purposefully, because you main a stamina character and you want vigor to give you an unfair advantage over magicka characters.

We're all well aware, that vigor is available with any weapon, while restoration staff skills are - you guessed it - only usable while wielding a restoration staff. So yes, being able to spam dual-wield executes, 2-handed charges, and long distance stealth snipes while casting vigor on-demand is quite obviously broken when compared to restoration staff's regeneration.

There are so many issues with the game already, and this upcoming update just makes it much worse. What are the devs even thinking.

As I mentioned above, I main magcro and magplar. An ability costing off-stat is often a benefit.

Again, people need to stop comparing Resolving Vigor to Regen. Resolving Vigor is a self-only heal. Regen is a target heal that can heal others. You can receive this from others. You can stack multiple of these. These should be weaker.

Comparing it to Echoing Vigor is something else. But as I mentioned above, Radiating Regen ticks harder than Echoing Vigor, Costs less and benefits from resto skill line passives, and has a significantly larger radius. Benefit of Echoing Vigor? Doesn't require a Resto staff, has a larger target cap.

These skills are comparable but one of them isn't inherently stronger than the other--which makes them balanced.

Vetixio

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

I mean, I am against the nerf of Dark Cloak. I think it's a ridiculous nerf. On live, it's comparable to vigor and now it's gutted. I think vigor is in line with bubble. Wraith. Blood Magic. I am, however, pro-target applied hots should be weaker than self-applied hots. And that's what nerfing Resto staff does. Resto should be healer only. The fact that resto backbar has been best-in-slot on almost all specs for so long is, IMO, stupid. It should be for healers, not for DDs. So I stand by that self-applied HoTs should always be stronger than target-applied hots.

just... okay

Yes, Regen is a target-applied heal. Meaning you can cast this on other people. Meaning people can cast this on themselves. Meaning you can have 5 stacks of Regen on you. It should 100% be weaker than a skill that cannot stack. I do not get the debate here.

So these tick for the same? ~500 per tick? One is cheaper and has a larger radius, one lasts for a 60% longer and hits three additional people.

Both have their advantages. Both are worth running.

Edit: Radiating is also about 10% stronger. I mean, I don't get the issue here.

you dont see notihng , you dont see radiation can heal only 3 players , e.Vigor can heal infinite , if are 50 players heal the 50 players... you only see your lovely vigor , BALANCE MAN BALANCE

Echoing vigor has a target cap of 6.

6 only? not bad only the x2 than radiation xD , man you win regeneration need another nerf to -100% of heal xD ty and gl

Smaller radius, 10% weaker heal, 20% higher cost, can hit 3 additional people. Does not also benefit from Resto Skill line passives. Advantageous and disadvantages to running one skill over another.

You're avoiding discussing the huge difference purposefully, because you main a stamina character and you want vigor to give you an unfair advantage over magicka characters.

We're all well aware, that vigor is available with any weapon, while restoration staff skills are - you guessed it - only usable while wielding a restoration staff. So yes, being able to spam dual-wield executes, 2-handed charges, and long distance stealth snipes while casting vigor on-demand is quite obviously broken when compared to restoration staff's regeneration.

There are so many issues with the game already, and this upcoming update just makes it much worse. What are the devs even thinking.

As I mentioned above, I main magcro and magplar. An ability costing off-stat is often a benefit.

Again, people need to stop comparing Resolving Vigor to Regen. Resolving Vigor is a self-only heal. Regen is a target heal that can heal others. You can receive this from others. You can stack multiple of these. These should be weaker.

Comparing it to Echoing Vigor is something else. But as I mentioned above, Radiating Regen ticks harder than Echoing Vigor, Costs less and benefits from resto skill line passives, and has a significantly larger radius. Benefit of Echoing Vigor? Doesn't require a Resto staff, has a larger target cap.

These skills are comparable but one of them isn't inherently stronger than the other--which makes them balanced.

Not tryna sound rude but you said you main Magicka but your Magicka toons have 20k Magicka but 35k Health sounds more like a tank build as with 20k Magicka unless you have like 10k spell damage doubt you would be doing much dps or healing as Magicka skills scale with max Magicka pool. PS you mentioned Magicka meta it’s not 2015 anymore it’s Elder Stamina Online and has been for years lol.

Astin_nds

Vetixio wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

I mean, I am against the nerf of Dark Cloak. I think it's a ridiculous nerf. On live, it's comparable to vigor and now it's gutted. I think vigor is in line with bubble. Wraith. Blood Magic. I am, however, pro-target applied hots should be weaker than self-applied hots. And that's what nerfing Resto staff does. Resto should be healer only. The fact that resto backbar has been best-in-slot on almost all specs for so long is, IMO, stupid. It should be for healers, not for DDs. So I stand by that self-applied HoTs should always be stronger than target-applied hots.

just... okay

Yes, Regen is a target-applied heal. Meaning you can cast this on other people. Meaning people can cast this on themselves. Meaning you can have 5 stacks of Regen on you. It should 100% be weaker than a skill that cannot stack. I do not get the debate here.

So these tick for the same? ~500 per tick? One is cheaper and has a larger radius, one lasts for a 60% longer and hits three additional people.

Both have their advantages. Both are worth running.

Edit: Radiating is also about 10% stronger. I mean, I don't get the issue here.

you dont see notihng , you dont see radiation can heal only 3 players , e.Vigor can heal infinite , if are 50 players heal the 50 players... you only see your lovely vigor , BALANCE MAN BALANCE

Echoing vigor has a target cap of 6.

6 only? not bad only the x2 than radiation xD , man you win regeneration need another nerf to -100% of heal xD ty and gl

Smaller radius, 10% weaker heal, 20% higher cost, can hit 3 additional people. Does not also benefit from Resto Skill line passives. Advantageous and disadvantages to running one skill over another.

You're avoiding discussing the huge difference purposefully, because you main a stamina character and you want vigor to give you an unfair advantage over magicka characters.

We're all well aware, that vigor is available with any weapon, while restoration staff skills are - you guessed it - only usable while wielding a restoration staff. So yes, being able to spam dual-wield executes, 2-handed charges, and long distance stealth snipes while casting vigor on-demand is quite obviously broken when compared to restoration staff's regeneration.

There are so many issues with the game already, and this upcoming update just makes it much worse. What are the devs even thinking.

As I mentioned above, I main magcro and magplar. An ability costing off-stat is often a benefit.

Again, people need to stop comparing Resolving Vigor to Regen. Resolving Vigor is a self-only heal. Regen is a target heal that can heal others. You can receive this from others. You can stack multiple of these. These should be weaker.

Comparing it to Echoing Vigor is something else. But as I mentioned above, Radiating Regen ticks harder than Echoing Vigor, Costs less and benefits from resto skill line passives, and has a significantly larger radius. Benefit of Echoing Vigor? Doesn't require a Resto staff, has a larger target cap.

These skills are comparable but one of them isn't inherently stronger than the other--which makes them balanced.

Not tryna sound rude but you said you main Magicka but your Magicka toons have 20k Magicka but 35k Health sounds more like a tank build as with 20k Magicka unless you have like 10k spell damage doubt you would be doing much dps or healing as Magicka skills scale with max Magicka pool. PS you mentioned Magicka meta it’s not 2015 anymore it’s Elder Stamina Online and has been for years lol.

My magcro Use 32k hp 30K magicka and 16k stamina with 5k spell dmg permanent , this is magicka build .......... no 20k magicka -.- , this is and tank with little hybrid...

IAmIcehouse

Vetixio wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

I mean, I am against the nerf of Dark Cloak. I think it's a ridiculous nerf. On live, it's comparable to vigor and now it's gutted. I think vigor is in line with bubble. Wraith. Blood Magic. I am, however, pro-target applied hots should be weaker than self-applied hots. And that's what nerfing Resto staff does. Resto should be healer only. The fact that resto backbar has been best-in-slot on almost all specs for so long is, IMO, stupid. It should be for healers, not for DDs. So I stand by that self-applied HoTs should always be stronger than target-applied hots.

just... okay

Yes, Regen is a target-applied heal. Meaning you can cast this on other people. Meaning people can cast this on themselves. Meaning you can have 5 stacks of Regen on you. It should 100% be weaker than a skill that cannot stack. I do not get the debate here.

So these tick for the same? ~500 per tick? One is cheaper and has a larger radius, one lasts for a 60% longer and hits three additional people.

Both have their advantages. Both are worth running.

Edit: Radiating is also about 10% stronger. I mean, I don't get the issue here.

you dont see notihng , you dont see radiation can heal only 3 players , e.Vigor can heal infinite , if are 50 players heal the 50 players... you only see your lovely vigor , BALANCE MAN BALANCE

Echoing vigor has a target cap of 6.

6 only? not bad only the x2 than radiation xD , man you win regeneration need another nerf to -100% of heal xD ty and gl

Smaller radius, 10% weaker heal, 20% higher cost, can hit 3 additional people. Does not also benefit from Resto Skill line passives. Advantageous and disadvantages to running one skill over another.

You're avoiding discussing the huge difference purposefully, because you main a stamina character and you want vigor to give you an unfair advantage over magicka characters.

We're all well aware, that vigor is available with any weapon, while restoration staff skills are - you guessed it - only usable while wielding a restoration staff. So yes, being able to spam dual-wield executes, 2-handed charges, and long distance stealth snipes while casting vigor on-demand is quite obviously broken when compared to restoration staff's regeneration.

There are so many issues with the game already, and this upcoming update just makes it much worse. What are the devs even thinking.

As I mentioned above, I main magcro and magplar. An ability costing off-stat is often a benefit.

Again, people need to stop comparing Resolving Vigor to Regen. Resolving Vigor is a self-only heal. Regen is a target heal that can heal others. You can receive this from others. You can stack multiple of these. These should be weaker.

Comparing it to Echoing Vigor is something else. But as I mentioned above, Radiating Regen ticks harder than Echoing Vigor, Costs less and benefits from resto skill line passives, and has a significantly larger radius. Benefit of Echoing Vigor? Doesn't require a Resto staff, has a larger target cap.

These skills are comparable but one of them isn't inherently stronger than the other--which makes them balanced.

Not tryna sound rude but you said you main Magicka but your Magicka toons have 20k Magicka but 35k Health sounds more like a tank build as with 20k Magicka unless you have like 10k spell damage doubt you would be doing much dps or healing as Magicka skills scale with max Magicka pool. PS you mentioned Magicka meta it’s not 2015 anymore it’s Elder Stamina Online and has been for years lol.

My magplar is 8k SD and my cro is pen focused with 6k SD.

This meta is a low resource pool meta. You are better off allocating to recovery than stat pool. WD/SD is so high, the damage you get from a higher stat pool is negligible and recovery is far more valuable as as long as you have resources, you’re able to survive. Less than 32K Hp, you’re getting one shot from stealth.

Not to be rude, but if you’re running around with 30K off mag/stam, you’re running very suboptima this patch.

Vetixio

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

I mean, I am against the nerf of Dark Cloak. I think it's a ridiculous nerf. On live, it's comparable to vigor and now it's gutted. I think vigor is in line with bubble. Wraith. Blood Magic. I am, however, pro-target applied hots should be weaker than self-applied hots. And that's what nerfing Resto staff does. Resto should be healer only. The fact that resto backbar has been best-in-slot on almost all specs for so long is, IMO, stupid. It should be for healers, not for DDs. So I stand by that self-applied HoTs should always be stronger than target-applied hots.

just... okay

Yes, Regen is a target-applied heal. Meaning you can cast this on other people. Meaning people can cast this on themselves. Meaning you can have 5 stacks of Regen on you. It should 100% be weaker than a skill that cannot stack. I do not get the debate here.

So these tick for the same? ~500 per tick? One is cheaper and has a larger radius, one lasts for a 60% longer and hits three additional people.

Both have their advantages. Both are worth running.

Edit: Radiating is also about 10% stronger. I mean, I don't get the issue here.

you dont see notihng , you dont see radiation can heal only 3 players , e.Vigor can heal infinite , if are 50 players heal the 50 players... you only see your lovely vigor , BALANCE MAN BALANCE

Echoing vigor has a target cap of 6.

6 only? not bad only the x2 than radiation xD , man you win regeneration need another nerf to -100% of heal xD ty and gl

Smaller radius, 10% weaker heal, 20% higher cost, can hit 3 additional people. Does not also benefit from Resto Skill line passives. Advantageous and disadvantages to running one skill over another.

You're avoiding discussing the huge difference purposefully, because you main a stamina character and you want vigor to give you an unfair advantage over magicka characters.

We're all well aware, that vigor is available with any weapon, while restoration staff skills are - you guessed it - only usable while wielding a restoration staff. So yes, being able to spam dual-wield executes, 2-handed charges, and long distance stealth snipes while casting vigor on-demand is quite obviously broken when compared to restoration staff's regeneration.

There are so many issues with the game already, and this upcoming update just makes it much worse. What are the devs even thinking.

As I mentioned above, I main magcro and magplar. An ability costing off-stat is often a benefit.

Again, people need to stop comparing Resolving Vigor to Regen. Resolving Vigor is a self-only heal. Regen is a target heal that can heal others. You can receive this from others. You can stack multiple of these. These should be weaker.

Comparing it to Echoing Vigor is something else. But as I mentioned above, Radiating Regen ticks harder than Echoing Vigor, Costs less and benefits from resto skill line passives, and has a significantly larger radius. Benefit of Echoing Vigor? Doesn't require a Resto staff, has a larger target cap.

These skills are comparable but one of them isn't inherently stronger than the other--which makes them balanced.

Not tryna sound rude but you said you main Magicka but your Magicka toons have 20k Magicka but 35k Health sounds more like a tank build as with 20k Magicka unless you have like 10k spell damage doubt you would be doing much dps or healing as Magicka skills scale with max Magicka pool. PS you mentioned Magicka meta it’s not 2015 anymore it’s Elder Stamina Online and has been for years lol.

My magplar is 8k SD and my cro is pen focused with 6k SD.

This meta is a low resource pool meta. You are better off allocating to recovery than stat pool. WD/SD is so high, the damage you get from a higher stat pool is negligible and recovery is far more valuable as as long as you have resources, you’re able to survive. Less than 32K Hp, you’re getting one shot from stealth.

Not to be rude, but if you’re running around with 30K off mag/stam, you’re running very suboptima this patch.

You're totally right health is important this patch with Oakensoul Nightblades and DKs and Occult Overload/Proc set cheese but all my PvP Mag toons have 5-8k spell damage 34-39k Magicka and 27-30k health and do fine. Sure high spell damage is nice but running around with a small resource pool is tricky as Magicka as skills are more expensive whereas Stamina can run round with low resource pool and high weapon damage and be fine whereas with Magicka that is not always as successful. I find it is usually better to have a higher resource pool especially as a healer as if you’re stacking spell damage as opposed to weapon damage your skills will still scale well off max magicka. I’m sure your builds work well for you but I have been fine with my ‘suboptimal’ and more personalised, fun or off meta builds and still do well killing people or healing in PvP and have never had any complaints from anyone I run with in PvP.

IAmIcehouse

Vetixio wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Vetixio wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

tnanever wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Astin_nds wrote: »

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

Also, as I have mentioned already, there is no reason you cannot run a stamina skill on a mag toon. I have only played mag this patch and I run vigor on all of them.

with 2k of Hp no? , the builds for pvp is super necesary got aprox 29k 30k hp , now if you are a magicka full , with aprox 30k mgaicka 30k hp , you only can got 15-17k stamina , if you use Vigor mas block + cc you are definitly Dead..

Now magickas need to be staminas? for get a decent heal?... awesome xDDD , rest staff utility = get a good campfire XD

I absolutely do not care if the change affects you for the better or for the worse, I look for BALANCE, and there is none here, it is simply visible to the naked eye, anyone can see it, on the live server they are practically identical. If you don't want to see it, it's because you really don't want a balance in the game ....

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

My friend you are runing a possible hybrid , hybrids not hav the same problems , and staminas the same... look the coment of @Unified_Gaming , here you can got some info

Ever since the hybridization, there is no difference between the two. I would say I play magplar or magDK, Magcro, because I use all mag skills with the exception of Vigor. But typically people will say "mag or stam" based on the spammable they choose, but it's all else the same. If you choose to not use 30% of the skills because they cost stamina, you're just gimping yourself.

Also, stop the "It's all in favor stamina". Pretty much every class heal is mag. Arctic blast, wraith, honor, offering, resistant flesh, vines, bubble, Dark Cloak, etc.

Besides stam-shrooms (the inferior morph btw), and I guess rally, if you even count that, is there another stamina based heal? I may be missing one, but I cannot think of one. Mag primary is overwhelmingly meta right now and that doesnt look like it's changing in any way next patch.

Healers will still use restos because per cast, Radiating is still the most dense heal, and Rapid still will outperform other target-applied hots.

There is no mag or stam based toons anymore. It's just whatever you primarily put stats in. I even played stamcro for a short period of time, and I put my enchants and points into mag over stam. Why? Because Resistant flesh + Wraith. And still there, I don't run out of stamina. Vigor is so remarkably cheap of a skill, if you are gassing yourself on it, you are doing something wrong.

The drama that stam is overpowered now is just over the top. It's still a mag based meta because for most classes, pretty much all class skills are mag based.

Well, as you wish, we are making a mistake in 70% of the thread, according to you, I repeat for the umpteenth time THE BALANCE IS SEARCHED, and if you do not see that they are unbalanced, you simply do not seek balance, there is no other, I see it, I see it, you see it, we all do not there is a balance between these, it does not exist, that in the live server heal THE SAME, it means that they unbalanced them a lot. But hey, if you see that it's okay, then that's it, only you will be right.... the rest of us were wrong

I mean, I am against the nerf of Dark Cloak. I think it's a ridiculous nerf. On live, it's comparable to vigor and now it's gutted. I think vigor is in line with bubble. Wraith. Blood Magic. I am, however, pro-target applied hots should be weaker than self-applied hots. And that's what nerfing Resto staff does. Resto should be healer only. The fact that resto backbar has been best-in-slot on almost all specs for so long is, IMO, stupid. It should be for healers, not for DDs. So I stand by that self-applied HoTs should always be stronger than target-applied hots.

just... okay

Yes, Regen is a target-applied heal. Meaning you can cast this on other people. Meaning people can cast this on themselves. Meaning you can have 5 stacks of Regen on you. It should 100% be weaker than a skill that cannot stack. I do not get the debate here.

So these tick for the same? ~500 per tick? One is cheaper and has a larger radius, one lasts for a 60% longer and hits three additional people.

Both have their advantages. Both are worth running.

Edit: Radiating is also about 10% stronger. I mean, I don't get the issue here.

you dont see notihng , you dont see radiation can heal only 3 players , e.Vigor can heal infinite , if are 50 players heal the 50 players... you only see your lovely vigor , BALANCE MAN BALANCE

Echoing vigor has a target cap of 6.

6 only? not bad only the x2 than radiation xD , man you win regeneration need another nerf to -100% of heal xD ty and gl

Smaller radius, 10% weaker heal, 20% higher cost, can hit 3 additional people. Does not also benefit from Resto Skill line passives. Advantageous and disadvantages to running one skill over another.

You're avoiding discussing the huge difference purposefully, because you main a stamina character and you want vigor to give you an unfair advantage over magicka characters.

We're all well aware, that vigor is available with any weapon, while restoration staff skills are - you guessed it - only usable while wielding a restoration staff. So yes, being able to spam dual-wield executes, 2-handed charges, and long distance stealth snipes while casting vigor on-demand is quite obviously broken when compared to restoration staff's regeneration.

There are so many issues with the game already, and this upcoming update just makes it much worse. What are the devs even thinking.

As I mentioned above, I main magcro and magplar. An ability costing off-stat is often a benefit.

Again, people need to stop comparing Resolving Vigor to Regen. Resolving Vigor is a self-only heal. Regen is a target heal that can heal others. You can receive this from others. You can stack multiple of these. These should be weaker.

Comparing it to Echoing Vigor is something else. But as I mentioned above, Radiating Regen ticks harder than Echoing Vigor, Costs less and benefits from resto skill line passives, and has a significantly larger radius. Benefit of Echoing Vigor? Doesn't require a Resto staff, has a larger target cap.

These skills are comparable but one of them isn't inherently stronger than the other--which makes them balanced.

Not tryna sound rude but you said you main Magicka but your Magicka toons have 20k Magicka but 35k Health sounds more like a tank build as with 20k Magicka unless you have like 10k spell damage doubt you would be doing much dps or healing as Magicka skills scale with max Magicka pool. PS you mentioned Magicka meta it’s not 2015 anymore it’s Elder Stamina Online and has been for years lol.

My magplar is 8k SD and my cro is pen focused with 6k SD.

This meta is a low resource pool meta. You are better off allocating to recovery than stat pool. WD/SD is so high, the damage you get from a higher stat pool is negligible and recovery is far more valuable as as long as you have resources, you’re able to survive. Less than 32K Hp, you’re getting one shot from stealth.

Not to be rude, but if you’re running around with 30K off mag/stam, you’re running very suboptima this patch.

You're totally right health is important this patch with Oakensoul Nightblades and DKs and Occult Overload/Proc set cheese but all my PvP Mag toons have 5-8k spell damage 34-39k Magicka and 27-30k health and do fine. Sure high spell damage is nice but running around with a small resource pool is tricky as Magicka as skills are more expensive whereas Stamina can run round with low resource pool and high weapon damage and be fine whereas with Magicka that is not always as successful. I find it is usually better to have a higher resource pool especially as a healer as if you’re stacking spell damage as opposed to weapon damage your skills will still scale well off max magicka. I’m sure your builds work well for you but I have been fine with my ‘suboptimal’ and more personalised, fun or off meta builds and still do well killing people or healing in PvP and have never had any complaints from anyone I run with in PvP.

And that's fine. All I'm saying is 20k max stat is meta for most DD this patch, which you called that out as "I dont play DD".

lunaslide

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

With the nerf to radiating regeneration I'm going to have to redo my healer build. I may add vigor and dump the resto staff entirely. Ground-based heals aren't very useful to me so with RR nerfed into the ground I'll have to see what will work.

I know that this is something a lot of PVPers have been asking for, but in the end, I don't think it will work out well even for them.

Most of the PvP players I watch and play with don't think it's the healing power of Rapid/Radiating that is the problem, it's that there is no limit to the number of stacks on a single player (same goes for echoing vigor), and they both cross-heal outside of the group. Ball groups running around spamming these rarely die because the multiple stacks heal through almost everything.

The solution players like FrankenPC (Isth3reno1else) and Real Godzilla have been asking for is that there be a 1 or 2 stack limit for each group skill and perhaps that they not cross groups. This would have had no impact on PvE trial compositions since they run two healers in the same group, but it would massively cut down on the heal spam that makes ball groups so intractable, yet still allow small group and solo players a strong HOT to survive those groups better.

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

I would love to know your builds, sincerely. I want to know how you're getting as much SD/WD as you said elsewhere with these stats, because I'm not having a great time of it. I'm either surviving decently and not killing people, or not killing many people before I go squish.

IAmIcehouse

lunaslide wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

With the nerf to radiating regeneration I'm going to have to redo my healer build. I may add vigor and dump the resto staff entirely. Ground-based heals aren't very useful to me so with RR nerfed into the ground I'll have to see what will work.

I know that this is something a lot of PVPers have been asking for, but in the end, I don't think it will work out well even for them.

Most of the PvP players I watch and play with don't think it's the healing power of Rapid/Radiating that is the problem, it's that there is no limit to the number of stacks on a single player (same goes for echoing vigor), and they both cross-heal outside of the group. Ball groups running around spamming these rarely die because the multiple stacks heal through almost everything.

The solution players like FrankenPC (Isth3reno1else) and Real Godzilla have been asking for is that there be a 1 or 2 stack limit for each group skill and perhaps that they not cross groups. This would have had no impact on PvE trial compositions since they run two healers in the same group, but it would massively cut down on the heal spam that makes ball groups so intractable, yet still allow small group and solo players a strong HOT to survive those groups better.

IAmIcehouse wrote: »

I run 35k HP, 20k mag and 15k stam on all my mag toons. I have no problem keeping vigor up.

Stop thinking "Magicka builds vs Stamina builds". They don't exist anymore. It's the same.

I would love to know your builds, sincerely. I want to know how you're getting as much SD/WD as you said elsewhere with these stats, because I'm not having a great time of it. I'm either surviving decently and not killing people, or not killing many people before I go squish.

The problem with limiting how much you can stack something is it makes value-add of an additional player potentially useless. This is a benefit for how some of us play, including myself. But if you are a casual player, you are going to surf a zerg. Casting a heal and have it not do anything would be discouraging and this is going to have a similar effect as "no healing outside of groups" did. But less impactful as that. But I'd rather see healthy populations in cyrodiil.

Spell Damage Enchants + an offensive set, + DW/2H, medium armor Is going to get you around that 8k mark on a magplar who gets 16% spell damage from passives.

YandereGirlfriend

It's strange to see people talking to Icehouse like he's an inexperienced player when in reality he's like a legendarily skilled bomber and DD. Just for some additional context in this thread.

IMO, the sort of original sin of ESO healing was having healing scale off of damage stats. There should have been a separate stat (call it "Willpower") that governed healing and that was only useful for healing and that forced a genuine trade-off between dealing damage and healing. They could then have tied the Resto into that stat and more firmly established it as a healing weapon rather than something that any DD in Cyro can make use of.

Other random thoughts:

1. I think that the range advantage of Radiating Regen is over-stated at least in organized group play. A good group is going to be within range of Vigor and doesn't need the added distance of Radiating. You also only get most of the Resto passives while you're actually on that bar, so if you are using it as a back-bar weapon and spending most of your time on your front-bar then those passives are not really operative (of course, the passives get more use if you have a traditional offense/defense bar split where you're on that back-bar while being pressured). This isn't to argue that Radiating is bad only to highlight that Echoing Vigor is just really good - and also immune to Negates.

2. There's an issue with Rapid Regen not being a true analogue to Resolving Vigor since it can get snaked away by third-parties in a way that RV cannot. I've always felt that Rapid was in a weird place where it was often unreliable as a self-heal yet actual healers rarely use it because casting a burst heal achieves the same result in far fewer GCDs. I would make Rapid into a strictly self-heal and that would make it much easier to balance against Resolving.

IAmIcehouse

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

IMO, the sort of original sin of ESO healing was having healing scale off of damage stats. There should have been a separate stat (call it "Willpower") that governed healing and that was only useful for healing and that forced a genuine trade-off between dealing damage and healing. They could then have tied the Resto into that stat and more firmly established it as a healing weapon rather than something that any DD in Cyro can make use of.

Other random thoughts:

1. I think that the range advantage of Radiating Regen is over-stated at least in organized group play. A good group is going to be within range of Vigor and doesn't need the added distance of Radiating. You also only get most of the Resto passives while you're actually on that bar, so if you are using it as a back-bar weapon and spending most of your time on your front-bar then those passives are not really operative (of course, the passives get more use if you have a traditional offense/defense bar split where you're on that back-bar while being pressured). This isn't to argue that Radiating is bad only to highlight that Echoing Vigor is just really good - and also immune to Negates.

2. There's an issue with Rapid Regen not being a true analogue to Resolving Vigor since it can get snaked away by third-parties in a way that RV cannot. I've always felt that Rapid was in a weird place where it was often unreliable as a self-heal yet actual healers rarely use it because casting a burst heal achieves the same result in far fewer GCDs. I would make Rapid into a strictly self-heal and that would make it much easier to balance against Resolving.

.

In ballgroups, the range of RR is less needed, but frankly, in ballgroups, both heals are always going to be run regardless. Any AOE target-applied HoT will be run. Outside of ballgroups, that range increase is very noticeable.

The Rapid Regen getting snaked away, as frustrating as it is, is an inherent benefit to the skill--being able to hit other people with it. Although its frustrating for you, it's more frustrating for the enemy because that person was likely about to die. And the restoration staff is a really designed a healer's ability. Not a backbar weapon for DD. Every skill, besides RR, is really only useful on a healer. It's just that RR has been so strong, DDs run it.

On the note of healing being tied to offensive stats--I 100% agree. There's no way we see a change with a new resource type coming out, but I would like to see heals scale ONLY with mag/stam and not WD/SD. The nerfs to echoing/RR are needed, but IMO, having heals scale off WD/SD is inherently a problem. Tankiness comes from a few places. Obvious one being resistances/damage mitgation, the latter is heals. Being able to stack high WD and getting higher healing takes away the tradeoff of "Do I build tanky, or do I build Damage?".

BalticBlues

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

IMO, the sort of original sin of ESO healing was having healing scale off of damage stats.

THIS. Again and again.
Healing scale off damage was the WORST decision in ESO combat design history.

Balance was not great, but at least ok. However, since healing is scaling with damage,
DDs are the best healers now - and the ENTIRE GAME is going sideways:

• DDs (especially Stam DDs), now have best damage & best healing. This IS God mode.
• Even vDLC dungeons now are done with 3DDs plus Tank. Healers are not needed anymore.
• Some Stamina players now use a Resto back bar because of their incredible healing.
• Suddenly the overall healing is so high that good DDs are unkillable in PvP.
• NEXT FAILURE: Instead of reverting the false scaling desision, ZOS nerfs the Resto.
• Now dedicated Healers are EVEN MORE USELESS IN ALMOST ALL CONTENT.
• Vigor even gets a buff, while Mag players (sacrificing a weapon slot), get a Resto nerf.
• Stam, already ruling PvP for 3 years, now is even getting stronger due to the Resto nerf.

The game and the balance is getting worse and worse, the longer this scaling nonsense lasts.
PLS REVERT THIS NONSENSE - OR BRING US WROBEL BACK.

MidniteOwl1913

BalticBlues wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

IMO, the sort of original sin of ESO healing was having healing scale off of damage stats.

THIS. Again and again.
Healing scale off damage was the WORST decision in ESO combat design history.

Balance was not great, but at least ok. However, since healing is scaling with damage,
DDs are the best healers now - and the ENTIRE GAME is going sideways:

• DDs (especially Stam DDs), now have best damage & best healing. This IS God mode.
• Even vDLC dungeons now are done with 3DDs plus Tank. Healers are not needed anymore.
• Some Stamina players now use a Resto back bar because of their incredible healing.
• Suddenly the overall healing is so high that good DDs are unkillable in PvP.
• NEXT FAILURE: Instead of reverting the false scaling desision, ZOS nerfs the Resto.
• Now dedicated Healers are EVEN MORE USELESS IN ALMOST ALL CONTENT.
• Vigor even gets a buff, while Mag players (sacrificing a weapon slot), get a Resto nerf.
• Stam, already ruling PvP for 3 years, now is even getting stronger due to the Resto nerf.

The game and the balance is getting worse and worse, the longer this scaling nonsense lasts.
PLS REVERT THIS NONSENSE - OR BRING US WROBEL BACK.

Yeah I've been wondering if the present ZOS devs even believe that support roles should exist. They nerf healers, they nerf tanks again and again. I know these devs are not the same ones that designed the 4 person system, maybe they would like dungeons to just be 4 DD and just don't think they could do that without a backlash so they have just gone the slow attrition way instead?

ToRelax

BalticBlues wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

IMO, the sort of original sin of ESO healing was having healing scale off of damage stats.

THIS. Again and again.
Healing scale off damage was the WORST decision in ESO combat design history.

Balance was not great, but at least ok. However, since healing is scaling with damage,
DDs are the best healers now - and the ENTIRE GAME is going sideways:

• DDs (especially Stam DDs), now have best damage & best healing. This IS God mode.
• Even vDLC dungeons now are done with 3DDs plus Tank. Healers are not needed anymore.
• Some Stamina players now use a Resto back bar because of their incredible healing.
• Suddenly the overall healing is so high that good DDs are unkillable in PvP.
• NEXT FAILURE: Instead of reverting the false scaling desision, ZOS nerfs the Resto.
• Now dedicated Healers are EVEN MORE USELESS IN ALMOST ALL CONTENT.
• Vigor even gets a buff, while Mag players (sacrificing a weapon slot), get a Resto nerf.
• Stam, already ruling PvP for 3 years, now is even getting stronger due to the Resto nerf.

The game and the balance is getting worse and worse, the longer this scaling nonsense lasts.
PLS REVERT THIS NONSENSE - OR BRING US WROBEL BACK.

It's always worked this way, and has nothing to do with the guy who brought us uncapped CP 1.0 and OG Shieldbreaker.