Medium Weaving needs to go.

orgin_stadia

Medium attacks should just be removed from the game. Accessibility is close to zero.

Quethrosar

medium is just hold the mouse button for tiny bit, versus waiting seconds for a HA?

PDarkBHood

Could someone post a utube video on how to medium/heavy weave. No rush.

MindOfTheSwarm

orgin_stadia wrote: »

Medium attacks should just be removed from the game. Accessibility is close to zero.

Hmm. Not sure about this. What would the damage be on a half charged heavy? Same as Light? I don’t see this flying well with most of community.

boi_anachronism_

Klingenlied wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

The Empower buff should only apply to Fully charged Heavy Attacks and Channeled Heavy attacks. Medium Weaving is harder to do than regular weaving and raises the skill gap. It doesn’t lower it.

I guess

etchedpixels wrote: »

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Update 35 is a complete disaster for med level new players all it did was raise the skill gap. Unless your into heavy resto staff attacks.

It doesn't seem to be a big problem. Three healers with heavy restro and a tank in Galenwe. Ten healers and two tanks for trials. For once people will have to fake DPS instead. No that wasn't serious, but it's how it'll work 8)

The medium weave thing should go. It's yet another tight timing trick that will just mean the keyboard macro warriors win everything.

On controller, just push down R2 a little bit deeper. Voila. Medium weave accomplished.
Not saying that I enjoy this! I enjoy the light and heavy attack distinction. Medium seems more like a mechanical oversight to me.

Afraid the hold a little longer and let go means more then just that. Every class has skills with specific times, channels and cooldowns that they will have to adjust for as well as finding the optimal timing to get max damage while keeping the flow. Medium weaving has a much bigger time window and scale so you gotta figure out the exact right timing for each skill to use it properly. You are looking for the midpoint between a light and heavy and there is a lot of room between a heavy attack and a light. Hold down your trigger and see how long a it takes for a fully charged heavy and then do a light, now find the median time between the 2, that is medium.

Billium813

LA -> damage
MA -> damage + (1-99)% charge time damage
HA -> damage + 100% charge time damage + resources returned

IMO, MA should be the overall damage best strat. It takes slightly more time and can slow down your rotation if you even attempting to MA, but deals more damage than LA.

Empower should be a buff that boosts LA and MA, but diminishes inversely based on charge time to close the gap between LA -> HA. IOW, it would 100% boost LA, but scale down until you get to a fully charged HA that isn't buffed by Empower at all. Like, you are "empowering" your weaker attacks to hit harder.

For example:
LA < LA (Empower) = MA (40%)
MA (40%) < MA (40% + Empower) = MA (60%)
MA (60%) < MA (60% + Empower) = MA (70%)
HA = HA (Empower)

Eiregirl

orgin_stadia wrote: »

Medium attacks should just be removed from the game. Accessibility is close to zero.

I disagree that medium attacks should be removed. mainly from the standpoint that I firmly believe there should be multiple ways for players to produce damage that is on a meaningful scale.

LA weaving has been the pinnacle of doing damage for a long time and I have shown other players how to do it to improve their damage output. For some who just could not get the hang of it we would try to work out builds that would give them moderately decent damage and most were darn good following the mechanics of dungeons and trials.

I am fine with keeping LA weaving as the pinnacle of dealing damage as long as medium and heavy attackers can crawl into the same room. I would even be fine if people could do sustainable high damage without using any light medium or heavy attacks that was on the same playing field.

There are a lot of skilled LA weavers out there that know all the mechanics of every fight in the game and there are some that are totally lost when not standing in front of a target dummy. There are also a lot of players in the game that don't want to weave any attacks but know how to follow the mechanics of the fights because they don't stand in front of a static dummy and play parse Olympics but enjoy the actual fights and working out the mechanics.

I have not cared for many of the builds I have tested on the PTS this time around like many people but if this update gives players more ways to deal damage without LA weaving and is even close to what can be done with LA weaving then I will give it a chance and see what new ways I can make effective builds for myself and friends.

As long as I continue to have fun I will continue playing.

Marto

Medium weaving being buffed in U35 as an oversight. An accident. An unintended consequence. Nothing more.



Nowhere does it say empower was changed to create a medium weaving meta. Nowhere does it say medium weaving is even encouraged or allowed by this change. It's not even mentioned.

This change was pretty strictly defined goals (as opposed to more loose goals, like 'improve accessibility' or 'make it easier to rotate'). And medium weaving does not align to those goals.

I think people should stop panicking. It's just an accidental change that will likely be addressed soon.

Although I would definitely appreciate ZOS making a post of comment to confirm it's unintended. Even if a solution can't realistically be patched in for U35, it'd still be good to know it's coming a couple weeks later.

Eiregirl

Marto wrote: »

Medium weaving being buffed in U35 as an oversight. An accident. An unintended consequence. Nothing more.



Nowhere does it say empower was changed to create a medium weaving meta. Nowhere does it say medium weaving is even encouraged or allowed by this change. It's not even mentioned.

This change was pretty strictly defined goals (as opposed to more loose goals, like 'improve accessibility' or 'make it easier to rotate'). And medium weaving does not align to those goals.

I think people should stop panicking. It's just an accidental change that will likely be addressed soon.

Although I would definitely appreciate ZOS making a post of comment to confirm it's unintended. Even if a solution can't realistically be patched in for U35, it'd still be good to know it's coming a couple weeks later.

Intended or unintended I would welcome it even as an off meta that is weaker over the course of a rotation as a LA build.

People keep talking about how zos wants to raise the floor and lower the ceiling. That is not what needs to happen. Keep the ceiling where it is or allow it to rise slowly but come up with something that allows people to deal better damage without light attack weaving.

Either way we will be fine and we will work out what could be some fun new builds.

Klingenlied

Eiregirl wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Medium weaving being buffed in U35 as an oversight. An accident. An unintended consequence. Nothing more.



Nowhere does it say empower was changed to create a medium weaving meta. Nowhere does it say medium weaving is even encouraged or allowed by this change. It's not even mentioned.

This change was pretty strictly defined goals (as opposed to more loose goals, like 'improve accessibility' or 'make it easier to rotate'). And medium weaving does not align to those goals.

I think people should stop panicking. It's just an accidental change that will likely be addressed soon.

Although I would definitely appreciate ZOS making a post of comment to confirm it's unintended. Even if a solution can't realistically be patched in for U35, it'd still be good to know it's coming a couple weeks later.

Intended or unintended I would welcome it even as an off meta that is weaker over the course of a rotation as a LA build.

People keep talking about how zos wants to raise the floor and lower the ceiling. That is not what needs to happen. Keep the ceiling where it is or allow it to rise slowly but come up with something that allows people to deal better damage without light attack weaving.

Either way we will be fine and we will work out what could be some fun new builds.

More damage without weaving?
GCD on light attack. No more weaving. Now you can let everyone deal more damage that does not manage 2 (or more) actions per second. Dunno if we want this.

Eiregirl

Klingenlied wrote: »

Eiregirl wrote: »

Marto wrote: »

Medium weaving being buffed in U35 as an oversight. An accident. An unintended consequence. Nothing more.



Nowhere does it say empower was changed to create a medium weaving meta. Nowhere does it say medium weaving is even encouraged or allowed by this change. It's not even mentioned.

This change was pretty strictly defined goals (as opposed to more loose goals, like 'improve accessibility' or 'make it easier to rotate'). And medium weaving does not align to those goals.

I think people should stop panicking. It's just an accidental change that will likely be addressed soon.

Although I would definitely appreciate ZOS making a post of comment to confirm it's unintended. Even if a solution can't realistically be patched in for U35, it'd still be good to know it's coming a couple weeks later.

Intended or unintended I would welcome it even as an off meta that is weaker over the course of a rotation as a LA build.

People keep talking about how zos wants to raise the floor and lower the ceiling. That is not what needs to happen. Keep the ceiling where it is or allow it to rise slowly but come up with something that allows people to deal better damage without light attack weaving.

Either way we will be fine and we will work out what could be some fun new builds.

More damage without weaving?
GCD on light attack. No more weaving. Now you can let everyone deal more damage that does not manage 2 (or more) actions per second. Dunno if we want this.

We who?
I never said anything about putting light attacks on a global cooldown or not having light attack weaving.

My entire response was about more ways of dealing damage in the neighbourhood of what can be produced by light attack weaving but keeping the ceiling where it is or allowing it to slowly rise (meaning keeping light attack weaving at the top).

I have seen the full spectrum of complainers on these forums whining about the damage they are losing myself included but if the devs come up with a way that provides multiple ways for the entire, or a major portion of, the player base to deal damage that is in the upper half of the scale then I look at that as a way for more people to do harder content and give the upper 5% a bit more of a challenge, which people are consistently asking for here on the forums.

As I have said in several posts here on the forums, I would like to see more ways for people to do significant damage other than just with light attack weaving, but that light attack weaving should still be the pinnacle of dealing damage.

In the years I have played this game since its launch I have chased leaderboards but in the past few years I don’t care about them anymore and I have played with people of all skill levels. Many were excellent at LA weaving while others were not and struggled with it but knew the mechanics of the fights like the back of their hand so why not provide them with a way to move into a little harder and more challenging content while still maintaining LA weaving at the top of the hill?

miguelcura

Dagobertfuk wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

The Empower buff should only apply to Fully charged Heavy Attacks and Channeled Heavy attacks. Medium Weaving is harder to do than regular weaving and raises the skill gap. It doesn’t lower it.

You want zos to delete medium totally that we just have heavy- or lightattacks in the game?

Those people wich are unable to learn or wich dont have the will for it, just dont deserve anything in terms of coming closer to the others. beeing utter trash at the game is the only thing they deserve. Where is a will, there is a path. If they have no will to improve just *** them. Change the gap wont change anything else than make the game worse.

JAJA wait for the players to keep exiting the game. Those the ones who buy crowns and run with the "cost" of the hardcore who just practice knitting like a robot against a test dummy and don't spend any money at the store. If the game is already empty, it will be close to becoming another f2p.

miguelcura

Dagobertfuk wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

The Empower buff should only apply to Fully charged Heavy Attacks and Channeled Heavy attacks. Medium Weaving is harder to do than regular weaving and raises the skill gap. It doesn’t lower it.

You want zos to delete medium totally that we just have heavy- or lightattacks in the game?

Those people wich are unable to learn or wich dont have the will for it, just dont deserve anything in terms of coming closer to the others. beeing utter trash at the game is the only thing they deserve. Where is a will, there is a path. If they have no will to improve just *** them. Change the gap wont change anything else than make the game worse.

JAJA wait for the players to keep exiting the game. Those the ones who buy crowns and run with the "cost" of the hardcore who just practice knitting like a robot against a test dummy and don't spend any money at the store.
If the game is already empty of ppl, it will be close to becoming another dead f2p.

The changes in this game are too soon and too drastic. And the changes that are implemented are incomprehensible. I didn't understand why WoW has held up so well for decades, and I think simply because they don't do this stupid thing.

edward_frigidhands

miguelcura wrote: »

The changes in this game are too soon and too drastic. And the changes that are implemented are incomprehensible. I didn't understand why WoW has held up so well for decades, and I think simply because they don't do this stupid thing.

Actually, WoW started doing this right after wrath of the lich king ended and the new development team took over.

Their subscriptions plummeted from 12.5 million to below 1 million today.

They no longer publish numbers and they are sending out emails to ex-players to come play again.

miguelcura

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

miguelcura wrote: »

The changes in this game are too soon and too drastic. And the changes that are implemented are incomprehensible. I didn't understand why WoW has held up so well for decades, and I think simply because they don't do this stupid thing.

Actually, WoW started doing this right after wrath of the lich king ended and the new development team took over.

Their subscriptions plummeted from 12.5 million to below 1 million today.

They no longer publish numbers and they are sending out emails to ex-players to come play again.

WoW is in the top 4 of mmos, And it is also paid monthly. I keep playing and I assure you that in 2 minutes you get a group for any raid.
In teso there are few people, and especially the people who want to play in a group, most of them come to play "skyrim online".
I love TESO but the population of both is not comparable, teso does not even have 10% of the people of wow, even with wow at its worst.
Check this: https://mmo-population.com/

miguelcura

Regarding the changes I agree that this medium attack thing is crazy, I feel that the devs don't play the game. Not only because of the difficulty, clumsy, unnatural and slow mechanics of stopping a rotation with medium attacks, but also because most of us suffer from server malfunctions which makes the weaving even more difficult.

DrSlaughtr

I love medium attacks. 99% of players roll dodge after I hit with. So I just load to that medium, bay bay and wollop em.