Medium Weaving needs to go.

MindOfTheSwarm

The Empower buff should only apply to Fully charged Heavy Attacks and Channeled Heavy attacks. Medium Weaving is harder to do than regular weaving and raises the skill gap. It doesn’t lower it.

arkadiusz1992eb17_ESO

As much as i agree with you, we will need to wait 3 months for another 180 turn, 2 weeks untill patch goes live so it already went for stadia certification thus what we have on pts atm is going live 100%.

Donlup

Tbh the empower from heavy attacks should be removed if this cannot be fixed before update 35 letting it go to live when they were warned is a insult to the player base. Just do something dont ignore the issue for 3 months or 2 weeks post update 35 at the very very least admit it is a mistake and there is a fix is in the making.

Tanis-Stormbinder

Update 35 is a complete disaster for med level new players all it did was raise the skill gap. Unless your into heavy resto staff attacks.

BahometZ

Couldn't agree more, medium weaving currently does the most damage on pts and is the most challenging to pull off. This will further raise the ceiling. Add this to the long list of issues with this upcoming patch. Such a resounding failure.

Ksariyu

Skill gap up.
Power gap down.

If it takes a harder technique to get 130k parses, the best parses people were getting on live, then the skill ceiling has increased and the damage ceiling has stayed the same, which is good. And if it's now possible to get a 90k parse with a HA build, then the damage floor has increased, which is also good (The skill floor will always be as low as people are willing to avoid trying).

Ultimately the changes are largely incomplete and probably should be delayed, but technically this was their goal. Everyone says accessibility is going down (After the post about enemy HP, I'm not convinced they're wrong now), but realistically an easier rotation has been buffed to be viable and a harder rotation has taken the top spot, which should help everyone.

MindOfTheSwarm

Ksariyu wrote: »

Skill gap up.
Power gap down.

If it takes a harder technique to get 130k parses, the best parses people were getting on live, then the skill ceiling has increased and the damage ceiling has stayed the same, which is good. And if it's now possible to get a 90k parse with a HA build, then the damage floor has increased, which is also good (The skill floor will always be as low as people are willing to avoid trying).

Ultimately the changes are largely incomplete and probably should be delayed, but technically this was their goal. Everyone says accessibility is going down (After the post about enemy HP, I'm not convinced they're wrong now), but realistically an easier rotation has been buffed to be viable and a harder rotation has taken the top spot, which should help everyone.

I disagree. Simply due to the fact that this will negate Light Attack weaving. Also Empower, isn’t as easy to get on some classes as it is on others. Yes, Mages Guild gives it but still.

Buffing Heavy Attack builds in PvE is a good idea but I think the answer exists outside of Empower.

DUTCH_REAPER

I just asked this in another thread but weren’t we using med weave after the game launched and continued to use med weave until zos made resource regen from la’s? Sounds like we’re going back to the old days lol.

AlterBlika

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Mages Guild gives it

It has a very short duration if it hasn't been changed. If there were at least a spammable it would be great, but using trash abilities for 2 secs of empower is meh.

Necrotech_Master

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Ksariyu wrote: »

Skill gap up.
Power gap down.

If it takes a harder technique to get 130k parses, the best parses people were getting on live, then the skill ceiling has increased and the damage ceiling has stayed the same, which is good. And if it's now possible to get a 90k parse with a HA build, then the damage floor has increased, which is also good (The skill floor will always be as low as people are willing to avoid trying).

Ultimately the changes are largely incomplete and probably should be delayed, but technically this was their goal. Everyone says accessibility is going down (After the post about enemy HP, I'm not convinced they're wrong now), but realistically an easier rotation has been buffed to be viable and a harder rotation has taken the top spot, which should help everyone.

I disagree. Simply due to the fact that this will negate Light Attack weaving. Also Empower, isn’t as easy to get on some classes as it is on others. Yes, Mages Guild gives it but still.

Buffing Heavy Attack builds in PvE is a good idea but I think the answer exists outside of Empower.

as of patch 8.1.3 oakensoul gives permanent empower

there are also several gear sets which have high uptime on empower

• Rage of the Ursauk (new from earthen root enclave) (grants empower in a 12 meter aoe to you and allies, 8 sec cooldown, 12 sec duration)
• aegis of galanwe (from cloudrest)
• grisly gourmet (red petal bastion)
• might of the lost legion
• queens elegence

out of all of those, only a few would really be useable for high uptime of the buff:

galanwe (for a tank), ursauk (trigger on dealing dmg with heavy attack), and queens elegence (trigger on dealing dmg with heavy attack)

queens elegence would be easier to obtain but only buffs you, ursauk buffs all allies, but both buffs can be up 100% of the time

so between oakensoul, or galanwe/ursauk most players could easily have high uptimes on empower

Dagobertfuk

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

The Empower buff should only apply to Fully charged Heavy Attacks and Channeled Heavy attacks. Medium Weaving is harder to do than regular weaving and raises the skill gap. It doesn’t lower it.

You want zos to delete medium totally that we just have heavy- or lightattacks in the game?

Those people wich are unable to learn or wich dont have the will for it, just dont deserve anything in terms of coming closer to the others. beeing utter trash at the game is the only thing they deserve. Where is a will, there is a path. If they have no will to improve just *** them. Change the gap wont change anything else than make the game worse.

m_YSTiC

"Restoration is a perfectly valid school of magic. And don't let anyone tell you otherwise!"

AlterBlika

I've never really used medium attacks but if it goes live, I suppose they'll finally become relevant. As for me, it's kinda engaging to change your playstyle a bit.

AlterBlika

Dagobertfuk wrote: »

Those people wich are unable to learn or wich dont have the will for it, just dont deserve anything in terms of coming closer to the others.

Sort of cruel, but this is how it should be. If you aren't willing to learn, then play casual normal modes of activities where you don't have to be that great at combat. Perfected versions of gear don't add that much dps anyway. And if you want some good achievement then you must work for it, not just claim it with zero effort.

boi_anachronism_

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

The Empower buff should only apply to Fully charged Heavy Attacks and Channeled Heavy attacks. Medium Weaving is harder to do than regular weaving and raises the skill gap. It doesn’t lower it.

Empower buff should be 60% to fully charged heavy attacks and 20% to light. I like that it was removed from pvp though, that was a good change. Problem is they would have to rework so many skills to fit this. Like nbs have a skill with empower. They are a mobility reliant class, fully charged heavy attacks are not a thing for them in the context of the skill. I don't think they want to do that. Just my thoughts.

remosito

AlterBlika wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Mages Guild gives it

It has a very short duration if it hasn't been changed. If there were at least a spammable it would be great, but using trash abilities for 2 secs of empower is meh.

wasnt might of the guild buffed to 10secs?

remosito

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

The Empower buff should only apply to Fully charged Heavy Attacks and Channeled Heavy attacks. Medium Weaving is harder to do than regular weaving and raises the skill gap. It doesn’t lower it.

Empower buff should be 60% to fully charged heavy attacks and 20% to light. I like that it was removed from pvp though, that was a good change. Problem is they would have to rework so many skills to fit this. Like nbs have a skill with empower. They are a mobility reliant class, fully charged heavy attacks are not a thing for them in the context of the skill. I don't think they want to do that. Just my thoughts.

agree on the fully charged. part.

why 60% and not 80% as we have now. first 2 ticks not getting full boost will redice resto/lightning. And HA is already behind LA/MA...

MindOfTheSwarm

Dagobertfuk wrote: »

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

The Empower buff should only apply to Fully charged Heavy Attacks and Channeled Heavy attacks. Medium Weaving is harder to do than regular weaving and raises the skill gap. It doesn’t lower it.

You want zos to delete medium totally that we just have heavy- or lightattacks in the game?

Those people wich are unable to learn or wich dont have the will for it, just dont deserve anything in terms of coming closer to the others. beeing utter trash at the game is the only thing they deserve. Where is a will, there is a path. If they have no will to improve just *** them. Change the gap wont change anything else than make the game worse.

Sorry but this mentality is out of line. I agree that those that weave should be rewarded for it. But the argument of ‘screw those that can’t’ is uncalled for. Some people have disabilities either physical or mental. So allowing Heavy Attacks to be a good alternative (but not overtaking) to the meta is a good thing for all players and a good thing for ZoS as it brings in business.

merpins

just give 40% to la on empower. adding 40% back after a 26% nerf results in a 3% damage increase from base light attack damage on live, which is still a huge nerf. Keep in mind; 3% more than 100% is still much less than 40% more than 100%, + they're nerfing the maelstrom staff, too.

dmnqwk

It's kinda funny that Empower is being trashed right after they thought 'hey, let's give empower to Nightblades!' At least NBs are getting overpowered Surprise Attack to compensate for it.

DarcyMardin

I used to do medium attacks instead of light attacks when I was learning to weave. It took me a while to get the timing right (so sue me…I’m 74 yrs old). I tried last night to switch back to medium attacks, but they all came out light. Improving accessibility? Nope. /ZOS_FAIL

ESO_Nightingale

arkadiusz1992eb17_ESO wrote: »

As much as i agree with you, we will need to wait 3 months for another 180 turn, 2 weeks untill patch goes live so it already went for stadia certification thus what we have on pts atm is going live 100%.

that's a good amount of time to have a break from this mess.

Tigertron

Med weave is just the meta. You can still get the bonus from a heavy. Just you won’t squeeze out the 1-5% extra damage

Rimskjegg

I can't even light attack weave very well, but personally, I don't mind the new/old medium weave meta at all. Why should I object to someone else on my PvE team doing lots of damage? I only stand to benefit, and it's not active in PvP anyway. In fact one of my friends absolutely can't light attack weave because guess what... every time he tries to light attack, the game counts it as a heavy (medium) attack...So while I will accept that medium weaving is harder for both me and most players, I'm not even convinced that medium weaving is harder for absolutely everyone. The only issue is every BIG thing ZoS do with these changes actively counteracts the goal they said they had, like "shortening the delta"... but let's be real for a moment, we know tons of confusing changes can only widen the gap, so that project was a dead end from the start.
TL DR medium weaving is the LEAST of my worries:
-Screwing up every rotation I ever learnt will confuse and hurt me. This stings extra because they literally promised less stressful rotations but meh, compromise I guess. At a minimum at least fix the duration passives.
-Nerfing my DPS by 20% while dropping boss HP by 10% will confuse and hurt me.
-Not even bothering to tell us what counts as "champions" and "bannermen" and hence gets a HP reduction confuses and hurts me. If portals DPS races haven't been touched, I don't even know what to say except why??
-Forcing me to reevaluate if my sets do the same damage with 2 second DoT ticks will confuse and hurt me.
-Making it harder for my healers to heal me through stuff will confuse and hurt me. A LOT. Again, why???
-Pushing an unfinished mess to live instead of testing and fixing it properly first will confuse, hurt and anger me.
-EDIT: How could I forget the most important thing of all: Making changes that drive so many players from the game confuses, hurts and disappoints me. I don't want to play vet content solo, there are single player games for that. If medium weaving is causing that I don't really understand why, but if so, then I guess it hurts me as well.

MindOfTheSwarm

So what about Light Attack Weaving? Is it dead and buried? What about Ultimate Regen? Does this increase with Medium Attacks? I’m curious what would be optimal here. Light Weave while slapping down buffs and DoT then Medium Weave while Empower is active? Also, Warden’s don’t have Empower on their kit and thus need mages guild or a set. Seems finicky to put such an emphasis on an awkward buff in order to compete.

colossalvoids

LA's are fine. Med is optimal but that doesn't mean you particularly need it if not going wr or score pushing, you can do whatever you like as always for challengers/trifectas etc., idk about more recent trials and their dps checks but you can just be out of portals if can't pass.

MindOfTheSwarm

colossalvoids wrote: »

LA's are fine. Med is optimal but that doesn't mean you particularly need it if not going wr or score pushing, you can do whatever you like as always for challengers/trifectas etc., idk about more recent trials and their dps checks but you can just be out of portals if can't pass.

Are fully charged heavies more optimal then Light? Is a bigger question.

IZZEFlameLash

Ksariyu wrote: »

Skill gap up.
Power gap down.

If it takes a harder technique to get 130k parses, the best parses people were getting on live, then the skill ceiling has increased and the damage ceiling has stayed the same, which is good. And if it's now possible to get a 90k parse with a HA build, then the damage floor has increased, which is also good (The skill floor will always be as low as people are willing to avoid trying).

Ultimately the changes are largely incomplete and probably should be delayed, but technically this was their goal. Everyone says accessibility is going down (After the post about enemy HP, I'm not convinced they're wrong now), but realistically an easier rotation has been buffed to be viable and a harder rotation has taken the top spot, which should help everyone.

I don't think power gap closed at all, it is only 1 niche build that will perform well enough, but not any other.

MindOfTheSwarm

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

Ksariyu wrote: »

Skill gap up.
Power gap down.

If it takes a harder technique to get 130k parses, the best parses people were getting on live, then the skill ceiling has increased and the damage ceiling has stayed the same, which is good. And if it's now possible to get a 90k parse with a HA build, then the damage floor has increased, which is also good (The skill floor will always be as low as people are willing to avoid trying).

Ultimately the changes are largely incomplete and probably should be delayed, but technically this was their goal. Everyone says accessibility is going down (After the post about enemy HP, I'm not convinced they're wrong now), but realistically an easier rotation has been buffed to be viable and a harder rotation has taken the top spot, which should help everyone.

I don't think power gap closed at all, it is only 1 niche build that will perform well enough, but not any other.

Precisely this. I think it would be ok if the new Empower had a scaling buff dependant on how long you held it. So 20% for light, 40% for medium and 80% for heavy. Medium weaving is easy enough but the fact that a medium is just a split second longer than a light for 80% buff is insane.

I felt Light Attacks needed a nerf way before U35. But first week they went to far, then they changed their minds and nerfed them not as hard only to give us something that is more powerful than before on top of the veteran content nerfs. It’s absurd and feels like they are just doing stuff without sufficient testing. Those spreadsheets are a curse.

etchedpixels

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Update 35 is a complete disaster for med level new players all it did was raise the skill gap. Unless your into heavy resto staff attacks.

It doesn't seem to be a big problem. Three healers with heavy restro and a tank in Galenwe. Ten healers and two tanks for trials. For once people will have to fake DPS instead. No that wasn't serious, but it's how it'll work 8)

The medium weave thing should go. It's yet another tight timing trick that will just mean the keyboard macro warriors win everything.

Klingenlied

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

The Empower buff should only apply to Fully charged Heavy Attacks and Channeled Heavy attacks. Medium Weaving is harder to do than regular weaving and raises the skill gap. It doesn’t lower it.

I guess

etchedpixels wrote: »

Tanis-Stormbinder wrote: »

Update 35 is a complete disaster for med level new players all it did was raise the skill gap. Unless your into heavy resto staff attacks.

It doesn't seem to be a big problem. Three healers with heavy restro and a tank in Galenwe. Ten healers and two tanks for trials. For once people will have to fake DPS instead. No that wasn't serious, but it's how it'll work 8)

The medium weave thing should go. It's yet another tight timing trick that will just mean the keyboard macro warriors win everything.

On controller, just push down R2 a little bit deeper. Voila. Medium weave accomplished.
Not saying that I enjoy this! I enjoy the light and heavy attack distinction. Medium seems more like a mechanical oversight to me.