Where are the promised sorcerer buffs? This was literally nothing.

MetallicMonk

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Disagree about this on, Lightning Form, and its morphs are our source of Major Resolve, and also either major or minor expedition. Putting Minor Resolve on vigor is a pretty good change since a lot of sorcs run vigor because our in-class heals are such garbage.

But shields being trash (even if the best-of-the-best sorcs like Magio can make them work still) is pretty accurate. Other top-tier players like Malcolm have explained what a bad spot MagSorc is really in for PVP but no one seems to be listening.

Boundless is garbage, most sorcs run chudan just to free up a slot cause it's not worth it.

Tannus15

so somehow ... the focus of these adjustments will be on Magicka-based ... Sorcerers is an additional 25% to prey.

are you kidding me?
are you actually kidding me?

Why? What? You NERFED ALL THE PETS Congrats, what you achieved this update was to make sorc less rewarding for people with low prey uptime and in general worse overall.

Never have I seen a more blatant case of balance by trial dummy. Go do some freaking content. Seriously, do something other than parse on a dummy and tweak some random numbers.

There are so many things you could have done. So many. Lightning flood is almost never used. Lightning staffs are never used. bound aegis could have gotten some dps love. bound armaments could have had the max stam changed or max mag added or anything. the twilight tormentor activation. There is no empower in the sorc kit, so the most popular heavy attack class is now the worse class for heavy attack builds.
You could have just added empower to the tormentor activation!

I don't know what else to say. I'm actually stunned at how bad these last patch notes are compared to what was promised or implied.

10% boss health. 10%. YOU NERFED US BY 20%
All your smoke and mirrors with the trial dummy can't hide the fact that we do a 3m or 6m parse and see a 20% dps loss.

ToRelax

Bound Aegis and Combat Prayer are niche skills as is, now there'll be even less reason to run them. This is just shifting which skills are made obsolete by a heal every setup in the game can run.

MashmalloMan

MetallicMonk wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

This is a net buff for everyone, minor resolve is a lot harder to come by than major. I compeltely agree with ZOS on this one. It would of killed a lot of class identity..

So much of how the classes feel comes down to their classes armor buff because each class gets one, each one is unique and every class uses it.

• NB's without heavy get it passively from their skill line so they need to manage it more frequently with active combat, rather than fire and forget.
• Templar get it as a 2 for 1 because it's combined with their resource sustain tool.
• Sorc gets minor or major exepdition, but also their only source of a real a dot within the class.
• DK gets reflect and another aoe fire dot or a shield.
• Warden gets minor protection or can share it easier.
• Necro gets passive chains or summon cost reduction.

It was sad, but I was honestly considering not using Hurricane next patch to save the skill slot. I wasn't very excited about it, even if I knew it was probably the most optimal way to play. I'm happy they changed it.. guess it doesn't matter too much because I don't really want to play anyhow, but I'm guessing the change will stick longer than 1 patch.

Boundless is a trash skill compared to others to get major resolve, literally forces magsorc back into running chudan, which was one of the only appealing aspects of this patch being able to drop it.

Thats a long standing mag sorc problem, not a vigor problem. Every class is already "forced" to use their major amor skill, mag sorc's just find Chudan to be viable because they typically play ranged and don't need the aoe dot ticks from Boundless Storm, as well as having next to no bar space due to pets.

It's a lot better than it once was though, 30s is a lot better than the 24s it used to be if I remember correctly. Plus, with hybrid scaling, I use Hurricane on my mag sorc because I'd rather have 15% movement speed all the time, rather than 30% some times.

The change is 100% justified imo. It would of killed class identity even more than the sorry state it's in.

MetallicMonk

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Thats a long standing mag sorc problem, not a vigor problem. Every class is already "forced" to use their major amor skill, mag sorc's just find Chudan to be viable because they typically play ranged and don't need the aoe dot ticks from Boundless Storm, as well as having next to no bar space due to pets.

It's a lot better than it once was though, 30s is a lot better than the 24s it used to be if I remember correctly. Plus, with hybrid scaling, I use Hurricane on my mag sorc because I'd rather have 15% movement speed all the time, rather than 30% some times.

The change is 100% justified imo. It would of killed class identity even more than the sorry state it's in.

While I agree with you to an extent the issue is that is under the illusion that there is any sort of long term plan for the game in general let alone the sorc class. Currently in the short term all it did was give the same buff that the burst heal we are forced into using gives and put us right back into having to slot chudan or have an underwhelming skill take up a skill slot.

FrankonPC

prof_doom wrote: »

Pretty much every class but nightblade was ignored.

not just ignored, nerfed

boi_anachronism_

Lol, stamblade is good in pvp. Mag based nb is garbage in pve. They NEED to separate pve from pvp. If they nerf nb in pvp it will be a crafter class for pve. Period. Y'all needa look at elswyer patch notes. As if nb hasn't suffered enough. Sorc nerfs are a joke comparatively. Every single skill was gutted. On top of that nb require the most player skill to use properly. By a mile, it's not debatable. Meanwhile templars hitting 100k just jabbin but that's no prob🥴

Foxtrot39

tbf ZoS has to remove the double bar requirement for summons, don't think people mind them being 60-120s summons instead to free up skill slot

Like Warden give a bonus for using lightning staff I dunno

Didgerion

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

What makes Magsorc weak imo is the lack of good magica sets (for example where is the max magica alchemist equivalent?)

Alchemist? Like clever alchemist which gives no stam either? Or am I missing something? Was away for a while.

No you are not missing anything. Mag sorc is still cornered into stacking max magica but there are no good sets to facilitate it.

In order for a magsorc to compete in the CP campaign it needs something like this:

Naughty Alchemist:
When you drink a potion during combat you feel a rush of energy, increasing your Max magica and stamina by 7000 for 20 seconds.

I can assure you no one will dare to say that magsorc is weak with a set like that.

MashmalloMan

Didgerion wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

What makes Magsorc weak imo is the lack of good magica sets (for example where is the max magica alchemist equivalent?)

Alchemist? Like clever alchemist which gives no stam either? Or am I missing something? Was away for a while.

No you are not missing anything. Mag sorc is still cornered into stacking max magica but there are no good sets to facilitate it.

In order for a magsorc to compete in the CP campaign it needs something like this:

Naughty Alchemist:
When you drink a potion during combat you feel a rush of energy, increasing your Max magica and stamina by 7000 for 20 seconds.

I can assure you no one will dare to say that magsorc is weak with a set like that.

Or simple fix so no one is shoehorned anymore.. let it scale from max resource and damage. Resto Staff shields already do this and they're not capped by HP either.

MetallicMonk

Didgerion wrote: »

In order for a magsorc to compete in the CP campaign it needs something like this:

Naughty Alchemist:
When you drink a potion during combat you feel a rush of energy, increasing your Max magica and stamina by 7000 for 20 seconds.

I can assure you no one will dare to say that magsorc is weak with a set like that.

I dare to say magsorc would still suck fat ones with a set like that.

Didgerion

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

In order for a magsorc to compete in the CP campaign it needs something like this:

Naughty Alchemist:
When you drink a potion during combat you feel a rush of energy, increasing your Max magica and stamina by 7000 for 20 seconds.

I can assure you no one will dare to say that magsorc is weak with a set like that.

I dare to say magsorc would still suck fat ones with a set like that.

You can come to the no-cp/na campaign, I can show you what a sorcerer is capable of when put in a more balanced environment.

shadyjane62

FrankonPC wrote: »

prof_doom wrote: »

Pretty much every class but nightblade was ignored.

not just ignored, nerfed

I would have been very happy to be completely ignored. I am Templar.

MetallicMonk

Didgerion wrote: »

You can come to the no-cp/na campaign, I can show you what a sorcerer is capable of when put in a more balanced environment.

Give me a day and time lmao.

React

Didgerion wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

What makes Magsorc weak imo is the lack of good magica sets (for example where is the max magica alchemist equivalent?)

Alchemist? Like clever alchemist which gives no stam either? Or am I missing something? Was away for a while.

No you are not missing anything. Mag sorc is still cornered into stacking max magica but there are no good sets to facilitate it.

In order for a magsorc to compete in the CP campaign it needs something like this:

Naughty Alchemist:
When you drink a potion during combat you feel a rush of energy, increasing your Max magica and stamina by 7000 for 20 seconds.

I can assure you no one will dare to say that magsorc is weak with a set like that.

This is one of the worse suggestions I've seen on the forums.

That would be a terrible set for a shield class. You sacrifice your flat mitigation as well the ability to have high damage and healing by running maximum magicka and using wards. You'd be a free kill during your 20 second downtime on your 7k mag.

I understand the desire for better max mag options in order to increase the viability of shields, but really the thing zenimax should do is just make shields scale with spell damage.

Didgerion

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

You can come to the no-cp/na campaign, I can show you what a sorcerer is capable of when put in a more balanced environment.

Give me a day and time lmao.

I'm in Ravenwatch every night. Send me an in-game mail, same at name as here.

acastanza_ESO

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

You can come to the no-cp/na campaign, I can show you what a sorcerer is capable of when put in a more balanced environment.

Give me a day and time lmao.

I've fought this person many times, you're going to get your butt handed to you. They're very good.

MetallicMonk

Didgerion wrote: »

I'm in Ravenwatch every night. Send me an in-game mail, same at name as here.

Sure definitely will take you up on this. Are you on PC/NA?

MetallicMonk

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

I've fought this person many times, you're going to get your butt handed to you. They're very good.

[snip] would you like to place a bet?

[edited for baiting]

boi_anachronism_

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

Nightblade on live is too strong with basically unlimited ability to cloak, move, and heal without impacting their ability to do damage at all. Forcing them to stand still at least a little bit is a necessary change.

But this patch butchers sorcerer and warden and they've given us nothing back but a slap in the face.

As I said. Read elswyer patch notes. They were completely gutted. It's literally a joke among players who have stuck with blades through the later patches. NB is a glass cannon. There is zero room for mistakes. You hit one snare and your done. Can't take your opponent down in 2 hits? done. It's an assassin class. That's the basis of it. Cloak makes the class and you don't heal while cloaked, it's expensive, and it's a 2 second skill. You spam it and you may not have the ability to attack after, you don't and you will be one shotted by the first templar or sorc to cross your path. No pvp night blade uses that particular ability unless it is a tanky build which is really unusual so it will do nothing for pvp to nerf it. It basically just destroys the opportunity for pve nb tank builds which were already hurting. Cloak btw is useless in pve. It requires a tremendous amount of skill to play nb well because the rotation can never be completely static while other classes are tanky, strapped with heals, and hit like a truck in both pvp and pve. They also require substantially less skill and can simply spam two attacks and wreck everything. Hating the play style of a class doesn't make it op by default. All the angst around blades is just getting irritating. I've mained nb for a while and when folks that have been running hard content for a long time with really good rotations only hits 95k on nb main while the same person easily cracks 110k on a sorc alt without breaking a sweat it puts things in perspective a lot. Literally the only time folks are happy I'm playing a blade in pve is when I'm running vcr because having a self heal is pretty much mandatory for portals.

universal_wrath

MashmalloMan wrote: »

MetallicMonk wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

This is a net buff for everyone, minor resolve is a lot harder to come by than major. I compeltely agree with ZOS on this one. It would of killed a lot of class identity..

So much of how the classes feel comes down to their classes armor buff because each class gets one, each one is unique and every class uses it.

• NB's without heavy get it passively from their skill line so they need to manage it more frequently with active combat, rather than fire and forget.
• Templar get it as a 2 for 1 because it's combined with their resource sustain tool.
• Sorc gets minor or major exepdition, but also their only source of a real a dot within the class.
• DK gets reflect and another aoe fire dot or a shield.
• Warden gets minor protection or can share it easier.
• Necro gets passive chains or summon cost reduction.

It was sad, but I was honestly considering not using Hurricane next patch to save the skill slot. I wasn't very excited about it, even if I knew it was probably the most optimal way to play. I'm happy they changed it.. guess it doesn't matter too much because I don't really want to play anyhow, but I'm guessing the change will stick longer than 1 patch.

Boundless is a trash skill compared to others to get major resolve, literally forces magsorc back into running chudan, which was one of the only appealing aspects of this patch being able to drop it.

Thats a long standing mag sorc problem, not a vigor problem. Every class is already "forced" to use their major amor skill, mag sorc's just find Chudan to be viable because they typically play ranged and don't need the aoe dot ticks from Boundless Storm, as well as having next to no bar space due to pets.

It's a lot better than it once was though, 30s is a lot better than the 24s it used to be if I remember correctly. Plus, with hybrid scaling, I use Hurricane on my mag sorc because I'd rather have 15% movement speed all the time, rather than 30% some times.

The change is 100% justified imo. It would of killed class identity even more than the sorry state it's in.

I think the problem if using chudan over boundless in PvP atleast is that both give major resolve. Chudan gives a little more health and armor, while boundless give major expedition and neglegible self centered dot. Major expedition is irrelevent when you have yours truly favorite streak. Magsorcs streak more than they sprint do in a sense, major expedition is obsolete for them. Shen you fight from range, a self centered dot is useless and even in closer melee ranges it deals a low dmg that it is barely noticable. In sense, boundless in provide major resolve for magsorc in pvp.

In PvE however, it feels good from the dmg point because you are in melee range a lot and with CP, you have more chances to apply status effect. major expedition is still useless unless you are moving in between fights from one area to another.

MetallicMonk

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

I've fought this person many times, you're going to get your butt handed to you. They're very good.

Still wondering if you're confident enough to bet on this?

Brrrofski

Sorc is now the only class without a reliable burst heal.

Dark deal has cast time. Matriarch dies in PvP and takes up two slots.

Shields are not an effective way to survive anymore. They're outdated. Size hasn't gone up in years but damage keeps going up.

acastanza_ESO

MetallicMonk wrote: »

acastanza_ESO wrote: »

I've fought this person many times, you're going to get your butt handed to you. They're very good.

Still wondering if you're confident enough to bet on this?

In no-proc, no-cp? I'll put 69 gold on Gina of Bruma any day.

EF321

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Alright, guess it's time to roll out the 6 pet Magsorc build again.

Hilarious they buffed Daedric Prey back to where it was years ago tho.

What were the 6?

I presume they started with the 3 from the Daedric skill line plus Maw of the Infernal (as tanks weep). What else?

I find Mad Tinkerer fun, even if the cc aspect clashes a bit with the melee class pet.

Defiler has yet another cc, so probably not that.

Does Unfathomable Darkness' crows summon count as a pet? I don't recall.

Icy Conjurer surely does summon an official pet. I don't know the meta choices for proccing it, however.

What am I forgetting?

Damaging pets one can add are:
Maw, Morkuldin, Defiler, Mad Tinkerer, Shadowrend, Spider synergy from UD skill (activator's pet).

KilianDermoth

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

What were the 6?

I have done one here (Stamina / Hybrid): https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7679732/#Comment_7679732

Maw + Defiler + Aegis Caller. Stronger than you might think (on live), might be boosted with the daedric prey change.

Nathyiel

For this patch, I prefer to see very little change like +/- 5% to some skill that was needed. But only if they start working seriously on much needed big change for the new chapter in 2023.

A big change to all class would be much better than a new class.
And by big change, I think of:

• separate PvE fand PvP in skill number to help balancing,
• remove the "weaving" mechanism to save us from lag spike
• focus on class identity because, TESO as a big focus on story.

Falcon_of_light

[snip] make crystal weapon have 10 charges and streak to delete anpother player accounts, and sorcs will be not satisfied...

[edited for baiting]

Glantir

Nathyiel wrote: »

For this patch, I prefer to see very little change like +/- 5% to some skill that was needed. But only if they start working seriously on much needed big change for the new chapter in 2023.

A big change to all class would be much better than a new class.
And by big change, I think of:

• separate PvE fand PvP in skill number to help balancing,
• remove the "weaving" mechanism to save us from lag spike
• focus on class identity because, TESO as a big focus on story.

They still have time to adjust things, but everything they change now for the release patch cant be tested on PTS....
This patch is simply too much change at once and they cant balance everthing till the 22nd August.

Imo they should delay the balance change... but cant imagine that they doing this...

Falcon_of_light

Just see what they did to nb. imagine streak losing its stun in exchange of guarantee crit if used fom behind... once per 4 seconds and only in 1 target... So ask for revert double stack crystal or go home, sorcs are just fine.