Do You Feel Your Feedback as an ESO Customer is Valued?

Necrotech_Master

Elsonso wrote: »

meekmiko wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Sallymen wrote: »

I do not know, reading "Knee jerk reaction" to "Anecdotal Feedback" and now "Everything has a price" is making me believe that they do not value their customer's feedback.

What is the bolded in reference to?

From the new patchnotes in the spoiler tab for Crystal Weapon:

• Crystal Weapon (morph): This morph now splits its damage into two separate hits - the first hit deals damage equal to a ranged spammable, while the second hit deals damage equal to 30% of that.

Developer Comment:

Spoiler

• This retains the same overall damage as PTS v8.1.0 but is far less punitive if you only get 1 charge of the ability off. Keep in mind this does unfortunately introduce a situation where combat logs will report each damage event as separate abilities. Everything has a price.

Suggestion: Do not go overboard on their attempts at humor. I just ignore them, like they probably ignore mine.

Besides, this feels like a Gina thing, not a development team thing. Sometimes her jokes miss. I can relate.

if it was in the regular patch notes i would say its gina, but its in the developer comment which im sure is just copied/pasted from what the dev sends regarding that

MudcrabAttack

Maybe they heard this feedback and others like it:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7658942#Comment_7658942

It's really too bad that's all they heard, they might listen if people just post a bunch of parses I guess. I don't think posting logs of clears are going to sway the direction, rather post more logs of failure that would have been success on live. Not that we should have to do that to make the game better, it's a lot of work to ask a customer.

TPishek

No.

Iselin

Safe to say they're quickly losing what portion of the room they still had.

Matthew_Galvanus

nope.

They tell us they want our feedback, then proceed to lock our threads, or just straight up ignore us. What is the bloody point of the gods-be-damned PTS if they are going to push everything through to live before making adjustments?

XellJarmar

Outrageously No.

FlamingBeard

meekmiko wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

meekmiko wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Sallymen wrote: »

I do not know, reading "Knee jerk reaction" to "Anecdotal Feedback" and now "Everything has a price" is making me believe that they do not value their customer's feedback.

What is the bolded in reference to?

From the new patchnotes in the spoiler tab for Crystal Weapon:

• Crystal Weapon (morph): This morph now splits its damage into two separate hits - the first hit deals damage equal to a ranged spammable, while the second hit deals damage equal to 30% of that.

Developer Comment:

Spoiler

• This retains the same overall damage as PTS v8.1.0 but is far less punitive if you only get 1 charge of the ability off. Keep in mind this does unfortunately introduce a situation where combat logs will report each damage event as separate abilities. Everything has a price.

Suggestion: Do not go overboard on their attempts at humor. I just ignore them, like they probably ignore mine.

Besides, this feels like a Gina thing, not a development team thing. Sometimes her jokes miss. I can relate.

I dunno if I took anything personally from the quote in question, I was just responding to FlamingBeard.

I appreciate it! Yeah that sounds like Gina to me, and she has never given anyone reason not to stan!

MageCatF4F

No. Voting with wallet.

JaiaV

No, cancelled my subscription unless this changes.

Malthorne

Vote with your playtime as well as your wallet.

Mr_Stach

Malthorne wrote: »

Vote with your playtime as well as your wallet.

How can I play less than not playing?

phbell

The responses border on hubris.

Largomets

I've played since beta. I actually have two accounts because during my hiatus they "lost" my first account, so I re-purchased much of the game a second time (I now have access to both accounts, but had already invested so much in my second account I just took the hit on my beta monkey and play on my second account).

I played this game when it was a subscription model. I've been ESO+ ever since that model went away. I'm that loser that actually buys the overpriced crown houses and have even bought crown crates. I know these are bad decisions, but I always justified it as "I enjoy it, I can afford it, and I spend so much time on this game I can support it."

So yeah, absolutely cancelled ESO+ over this. If it goes live, I'll quit. When they undo these [snip] changes (whether that be before the go-live or at a later patch), I will AT THAT TIME decide if I trust them enough to turn my sub back on.

Let me repeat that because I want to be clear. They have lost the financial portion of my business indefinitely. From where I sit, I will NEVER turn the finances back on if this goes live, and I MIGHT turn it on if they change. These changes are such a gut-punch to those of us that have been around [snip]

The entire reason I (and most) people still play this game after all these years is because it stands alone for the fast-paced, reactive gameplay. By dumbing it down to be more in line with other games just means I'll now compare it to those other games, realize those other games put out way more/way better content and care about their players, and go play one of those games instead.

[edited for bashing]

WildRaptorX

Never

Klingenlied

Hilarious. Absolutely not. And this is something pretty bad. MMORPG's need a good and happy community. Devalue your community and the people that leave might never come back.

Taking a break is never a problem in regards of player engagement. Many players likely will come back. But if you left because the dev just destroys stuff you enjoyed about a game or your character and communicates in a way that makes it seem they give a damn about you and your opinion and enjoyment of the game - hell, can't get any worse!

xaraan

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

Well, nothing I can do to stop them from doing so. It's more important that they see how their behavior is being taken from a customer IMO though than just my comment existing forever. So I'd be happy to know I was heard at least. And I'm not the only one with these concerns. So it's definitely a customer service/public perception issue zos should be aware of.

[edited to remove quote]

FangOfTheTwoMoons

100% they do not.

The Nocturnal's Ploy concern and the sweeping balance changes that players a fervently against are just two, on a long list of things over the years that players have voiced concern about during the PTS, but were ultimately ignored.

The underhanded comments that are made about the player base are also unwelcomed. (This isn't a conspiracy, this is a fact)

To me, I feel like ZOS doesn't respect us as a customers, and they also don't respect us as players.

Matthew_Galvanus

xaraan wrote: »

Matthew_Galvanus wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

Well, nothing I can do to stop them from doing so. It's more important that they see how their behavior is being taken from a customer IMO though than just my comment existing forever. So I'd be happy to know I was heard at least. And I'm not the only one with these concerns. So it's definitely a customer service/public perception issue zos should be aware of.

[snip] it is why the game has been slowly decaying, with the population declining a little more every year.

at the rate it's going we might have another 3-4 more years before they shut the game down if even that. this latest update is downright atrocious and is the final push i needed to just cut the game out of my life.

[edited for bashing & to remove quote]

phbell

Largomets wrote: »

I've played since beta. I actually have two accounts because during my hiatus they "lost" my first account, so I re-purchased much of the game a second time (I now have access to both accounts, but had already invested so much in my second account I just took the hit on my beta monkey and play on my second account).
......
<Omitted for space>
...

The entire reason I (and most) people still play this game after all these years is because it stands alone for the fast-paced, reactive gameplay. By dumbing it down to be more in line with other games just means I'll now compare it to those other games, realize those other games put out way more/way better content and care about their players, and go play one of those games instead.

^^^ I couldn't have stated it better. ^^^^

Largomets wrote: »

I've played since beta. I actually have two accounts because during my hiatus they "lost" my first account, so I re-purchased much of the game a second time (I now have access to both accounts, but had already invested so much in my second account I just took the hit on my beta monkey and play on my second account).

I played this game when it was a subscription model. I've been ESO+ ever since that model went away. I'm that loser that actually buys the overpriced crown houses and have even bought crown crates. I know these are bad decisions, but I always justified it as "I enjoy it, I can afford it, and I spend so much time on this game I can support it."

So yeah, absolutely cancelled ESO+ over this. If it goes live, I'll quit. When they undo these [snip] changes (whether that be before the go-live or at a later patch), I will AT THAT TIME decide if I trust them enough to turn my sub back on.

Let me repeat that because I want to be clear. They have lost the financial portion of my business indefinitely. From where I sit, I will NEVER turn the finances back on if this goes live, and I MIGHT turn it on if they change. These changes are such a gut-punch to those of us that have been around for all the previous iterations of "we hate our players" that ZOS has put out over the years, and it is SO CLEAR to me that they are more interested in hoping to get a quick buck from whatever small number of players out there have not tried ESO yet that might than rewarding those of us who have invest 8+ years in this game, that I see no reason to apply my financial loyalty to their lack of loyalty to me.

The entire reason I (and most) people still play this game after all these years is because it stands alone for the fast-paced, reactive gameplay. By dumbing it down to be more in line with other games just means I'll now compare it to those other games, realize those other games put out way more/way better content and care about their players, and go play one of those games instead.

My sentiments exactly.

[edited to remove quote]

Riptide

Well, I’m going to wait til, it goes live and if it is still a soup sandwich I’m going to crack my knuckles and spend some time on the various review sites. I mean why bother here, right?

UnassumingNoob

If the feedback agrees with them sure. If it doesn’t, and most of it isn’t this patch, then no. Seems disingenuous asking for feedback and just cherry picking certain elements.

jaws343

Not implementing or agreeing with feedback doesn't mean it isn't listened to or valued.

The problem is, there are so many voices on the forums, and opinions of players who provide feedback, that is not consensus. So, to listen to feedback and implement it all, as some seem to think is reasonable, the game would be a conflicting mess.

Some feedback doesn't fit into the vision of the game. Like requesting Skyrim combat mechanics, or even guild trader changes that migrate to a central auction house. Some feedback is just not good, or at least, not informed enough. Some feedback is great, but might still fit into that first category of not fitting the vision the devs have, or may step on the toes of some future patch feature.

The point being, not all feedback is equal, and not all feedback is valuable.

phbell

There is only one boss. The customer. And he can fire everybody in the company from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money somewhere else.

Sam Walton.

It might be that ZoS learns this lesson the hard way

More fun facts:

• Acquiring a new customer can cost five times more than retaining an existing customer.
• Increasing customer retention by 5% can increase profits from 25-95%.
• The success rate of selling to a customer you already have is 60-70%, while the success rate of selling to a new customer is 5-20%.
• One customer experience agency found loyal customers are 5x as likely to repurchase, 5x as likely to forgive, 4x as likely to refer, and 7x as likely to try a new offering.
• U.S. companies lose $136.8 billion per year due to avoidable consumer switching.
• American Express found 33% of customers will consider switching companies after just one instance of poor customer service.

shadyjane62

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Malthorne wrote: »

Vote with your playtime as well as your wallet.

How can I play less than not playing?

Deleting chars, giving away gold, just like me.

Today I got rid of three alts. Would have been more but only had three deletes. Now if they sold deletes in the crown store it would be good.

I liquidated entire EU account.

Cannot tell you how good it felt to actually do something rather than just come to forums.

VaranisArano

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Malthorne wrote: »

Vote with your playtime as well as your wallet.

How can I play less than not playing?

Deleting chars, giving away gold, just like me.

Today I got rid of three alts. Would have been more but only had three deletes. Now if they sold deletes in the crown store it would be good.

I liquidated entire EU account.

Cannot tell you how good it felt to actually do something rather than just come to forums.

Just wait 24 hours and you'll get a delete back. It's an old anti-bot feature from when players used to make trains in Riften to get gold from a simple quest there.

FlamingBeard

jaws343 wrote: »

Not implementing or agreeing with feedback doesn't mean it isn't listened to or valued.

The problem is, there are so many voices on the forums, and opinions of players who provide feedback, that is not consensus. So, to listen to feedback and implement it all, as some seem to think is reasonable, the game would be a conflicting mess.

Some feedback doesn't fit into the vision of the game. Like requesting Skyrim combat mechanics, or even guild trader changes that migrate to a central auction house. Some feedback is just not good, or at least, not informed enough. Some feedback is great, but might still fit into that first category of not fitting the vision the devs have, or may step on the toes of some future patch feature.

The point being, not all feedback is equal, and not all feedback is valuable.

Many veteran players with over 1/2 a decade of experience in ESO's combat have provided solid numbers and sensible anecdotes which both get ignored entirely. And that goes for every big update, not just this one.

All feedback, no matter how calculated, is equally unacknowledged.

shadyjane62

VaranisArano wrote: »

shadyjane62 wrote: »

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Malthorne wrote: »

Vote with your playtime as well as your wallet.

How can I play less than not playing?

Deleting chars, giving away gold, just like me.

Today I got rid of three alts. Would have been more but only had three deletes. Now if they sold deletes in the crown store it would be good.

I liquidated entire EU account.

Cannot tell you how good it felt to actually do something rather than just come to forums.

Just wait 24 hours and you'll get a delete back. It's an old anti-bot feature from when players used to make trains in Riften to get gold from a simple quest there.

Thanks I never understood why we were limited to three.

It's ok I'm going to do a farewell Mayhem event before the patch on my Templar August Palatine.

I'll get back 2 deletes before that happens then I'll be down to my main char. Not sure I'll be able to delete her. It would be too much like suicide but I'll definitely give the remaining days on my sub ( unfortunately about 250 days) short shrift.

TechMaybeHic

Spreadsheets > Customer apparently

IonicKai

I feel that while they do listen to the players sometimes ZOS tries to just force their ideas instead of really listening. They are trying to concede on some things but missed the reason for player outrage regarding all these changes. None of the changes proposed really help the average player when you take into account the flat nerf across the board. If you truly want to help the floor without affecting the ceiling too much you need to buff and make it easier and more clear how to maintain the more difficult buffs and timers. For some specific examples you could make all the sets that are targeting 6 like spaulder and PA just target all 12. You could also make brittle more intuitive or at least last longer that 4 seconds. That's just to name a couple off the top of my head.

alienmz

No if patch 35 comes out