Update 35 PTS Combat Feedback & Upcoming Changes

Casdha

siddique wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

xxxvodnikxxx wrote: »

[snip]

These 140k DPS people might get excluded from high end achievements. They'll still complete normal veteran trials.
The people just barely completing veteran trials no longer will.
The people just barely completing veteran DLCs no longer will.
The people just barely soloing normal world bosses no longer will.

This patch does not hurt 140k DPS people, it hurts everyone. And chances are, it will hurt the lower end, off-meta people a lot more, especially those at the verge of getting access to more difficult content. Some by 40-50%.

[snip]

and if you watch my video elsewhere on the forums, where someone challenged me to Solo test this on a Vet Dungeon you can see that mechanics can still be used in place of DPS a lot of times if you take the time to learn them. (I've never chased DPS, at least not more than is required, to complete content).

Don't presume people are complaining because they can't skip stuff through DPS. They're complaining because they can't complete the content. Whether that content is the dungeon / trial / encounter entirely or specific achievements for it is another matter.

I don't, I've chimed in on that as well in other threads. I was very close to not being here at all this year. If it were not for it being Breton content I wouldn't have been. All I'm saying is that if someone cares as little as I do about how you look to others then these changes don't amount to a hill of beans compared to some of the other changes that have been made over the years (I've went over a year without playing before because I was unhappy with ZOS's direction). I've tried this update (before this next set of changes hit) and it made very little difference in how I play this game,,, if at all.

I will admit that all of this uproar is what made me decide to try it for myself to see if it would affect me as much as every says it will, and it didn't. When I stated so I was challenged to try something harder so I picked one of the harder things I had done solo and tried it and that didn't change much either, so for now I'm happy with how it plays (at least for myself).

As for how I play (I've given up on chasing all of these changes) next years content will decide whether I play it or not and as for now how it plays still has no affect on me, at least not yet.

Edit: So just to keep my comments in context I Believe the game would run better if players were forced to focus on Mechanics and not using DPS as a means of skipping them.

[edited to remove quote]

Okay, so no offense whatsoever, but these changes and the uproar isnt about players at your level or who wish to play the game like you do.

They will also not affect the roleplayers in the Evermore Inn, for example.

These changes affect a large number of population that is at the middle of their progression. Mid tier. Forget endgame or people going for world records as well.

We are talking of people progging newer hardmode trials, thinking of trifectas after months of practice. Its those players who are pushed back with a sorry excuse of making that content more accessible to them.

So yes, you really are not the target audience here. Again, I mean it in as polite tone as possible, I understand written word's underlying tone can sound different than what is intended.

Edit: If I were to have to label myself I'd guess I'm an upper low level player. (in other words almost everyone can complete what I complete)

None taken, and as to who their target audience is that is simple, those who spend money. If one group starts outweighing another in that regard then that is the direction their ear turns.

Whether they are seeing all of these complaints and cheering or jeering will never be known to us and any speculation on our part is all,,,,,

"anecdotal"

Arthtur

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Arthtur wrote: »

Sigh, i have bad feeling about those adjustments...
Why cant u just leave DoTs alone? Those on live are good...

No they aren't. They are underpowered. Ground DoT's needed a buff not a nerf. Sticky DoT's should have been left alone.

Remember the DoT meta? This was a problem due to sticky DoTs and people stacking them in PvP. But no-one was complaining about ground DoT's as you could simply move out of them. So the solution ZoS implemented was a flat 60% nerf on ALL DoT's. It should have been a 40% nerf for sticky DoT's but ground DOT''s should have been left alone.
If that was done, the DoT meta would have disappeared but with dedicated DoT builds still being good in PvP. On live they are barely effective. On PTS they are useless.

Compared to DoTs on PTS, those on live are good. Not the best, but good enough.
Underperforming DoTs on live are a diffrent story.
Anyway, im not rly interested in talking about it as i already gave my feedback. I just wanted to show that i still prefer DoTs from live instead of those "adjusted" DoTs.

irswat

@ZOS_Gilliam will end game content like xalvakka HM, rockgrove trifecta, vss trifecta, vdsr trifecta be adjusted accordingly to compensate for the across the board nerfs to damage? If not, can you explain how these changes line up with the development teams stated intention which is to increase accessibility to this content?

GreatGildersleeve

irswat wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam will end game content like xalvakka HM, rockgrove trifecta, vss trifecta, vdsr trifecta be adjusted accordingly to compensate for the across the board nerfs to damage? If not, can you explain how these changes line up with the development teams stated intention which is to increase accessibility to this content?

I’ll bet you a dozen sweet rolls that it won’t be adjusted. It never has been in the past when they’ve done this and there’s no reason to start now.

Playnice

Sorcerer's Boundless Storm ticking once every 2 seconds is a big healing nerf because of the way it synergizes with Power Surge. This stands out in PVP the most where you may only be within range of one or a few enemies at a time.

MidniteOwl1913

Cominfordatoothbrush wrote: »

So if I'm reading this right: and I'm hope I'm reading this right, ground HoTs will be back to 1 sec ticks? Well, that was my biggest concern and I'm glad to see it changing if so. As for sticky dots retaining their extended duration I guess we'll have to see how it works out. But two things about that stand out to me... 1, will this create a meta where filling your bars with ground dots is a priority over sticky ones? I guess it depends how you've adjusted the actual damage ticks. and 2, it doesn't sound like this at all addresses the concerns of PvPers with regards to how little sticky dots were hurting.

Aside from that... honestly can we just revert all combat back to Deadlands DLC. You want to nerf damage, we want dynamic gameplay and class identity, that will achieve it better than anything in U36 so far.

Radiating Regeneration is a sticky HoT and will still have the longer tick less effect. In really most fights (which are very mobile) that is my go to and it will remain broken. So no for me healing is still broken. Also no mention of HA and resource return, still broken.

MidniteOwl1913

Halcyon_Kismet wrote: »

Please for the love of divines just scrap all combat changes and just release the dungeons.
The combat on live is in a good spot and just needs a few tweaks to some overperformers... not a complete slaughter of the game so many of us love and invested untold hours into...

Yes! I do not care about "damage bloat"! Most players don't care about "damage bloat"! As far as I can see all the damage is coming from U35.

For the making things more accessible, Oakensoul makes more content available to me as a mid-level player, but you are taking that away (and making my easiest character to play my DK useless at the same time) that is not helpful.

Matteo11

These changes need to wait until combat can be adjusted globally. As it stands- with just damage nerfs to players, you are essentially de-progging people, and resetting their power level just a month after a new raid released.

I cant emphasize enough how inappropriate it feels to do 20% less damage to the same raid bosses we could comfortably kill yesterday. Or how demoralizing it is to have class identity nerfed in favor of generic skills that everyone uses. Those generic skills should be the back up/second choice to cover a Class weakness, not to supersede its defining abilities.

Overall, MMOs are supposed to be a power fantasy, ESO is becoming way too restrictive of that, and its important that ZOS start tuning encounters globally, instead of just nerfing players.

exeeter702

So rot/dot based builds that focus on attrition and pressure will simply never be a thing in pvp in eso?, Playing a caster that uses various tools to kite, drain life and slowly burn the target, an iconic archetype that has existed in nearly every mmorpg to ever exist, is not something the dev team is interested in allowing anymore? A defining characteristic of NB casters from years past, all but extinct.

The "sticky" dots as is described here will be near worthless in their damage components in pvp, and any accompanying utility tied to them, equally low impact by virtue of how infrequently they need to be refreshed.

MidniteOwl1913

vivisectvib16_ESO wrote: »

Caff32 wrote: »

Stop. Looking. At. Spreadsheets.
Start. Listening. To. Your. Players.
WE. DON'T. WANT. THESE. CHANGES.

This. No one asked for this. Especially this late into the game's life-cycle. I'm sick and tired of being exhausted by the mental gymnastics being played by the dev/design teams in order to justify constantly putting their players through the ringer and then acting like we're out of line when we're upset/react.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_RichLambert

The main reason for the nerfs is "damage bloat". The devs want these changes, not the players. In this case what players want doesn't matter it's a dev driven change.

renne

GreatGildersleeve wrote: »

irswat wrote: »

@ZOS_Gilliam will end game content like xalvakka HM, rockgrove trifecta, vss trifecta, vdsr trifecta be adjusted accordingly to compensate for the across the board nerfs to damage? If not, can you explain how these changes line up with the development teams stated intention which is to increase accessibility to this content?

I’ll bet you a dozen sweet rolls that it won’t be adjusted. It never has been in the past when they’ve done this and there’s no reason to start now.

I feel like I remember them saying they'll adjust damage "over the next couple of patches" which could be 6 to 9 months hahaha good luck having an endgame community after that.

renne

ZOS_Gilliam wrote: »

A friendly reminder that providing data always helps us far more than anecdotal feedback, though both are still welcome.

A friendly reminder we can't provide data on console when we don't have a PTS and these changes are always made explicitly with PC in mind with console not even an afterthought, so all we have is our "far less helpful" anecdotal feedback.

Jazraena

Casdha wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

xxxvodnikxxx wrote: »

[snip]

These 140k DPS people might get excluded from high end achievements. They'll still complete normal veteran trials.
The people just barely completing veteran trials no longer will.
The people just barely completing veteran DLCs no longer will.
The people just barely soloing normal world bosses no longer will.

This patch does not hurt 140k DPS people, it hurts everyone. And chances are, it will hurt the lower end, off-meta people a lot more, especially those at the verge of getting access to more difficult content. Some by 40-50%.

[snip]

and if you watch my video elsewhere on the forums, where someone challenged me to Solo test this on a Vet Dungeon you can see that mechanics can still be used in place of DPS a lot of times if you take the time to learn them. (I've never chased DPS, at least not more than is required, to complete content).

Don't presume people are complaining because they can't skip stuff through DPS. They're complaining because they can't complete the content. Whether that content is the dungeon / trial / encounter entirely or specific achievements for it is another matter.

I don't, I've chimed in on that as well in other threads. I was very close to not being here at all this year. If it were not for it being Breton content I wouldn't have been. All I'm saying is that if someone cares as little as I do about how you look to others then these changes don't amount to a hill of beans compared to some of the other changes that have been made over the years (I've went over a year without playing before because I was unhappy with ZOS's direction). I've tried this update (before this next set of changes hit) and it made very little difference in how I play this game,,, if at all.

I will admit that all of this uproar is what made me decide to try it for myself to see if it would affect me as much as every says it will, and it didn't. When I stated so I was challenged to try something harder so I picked one of the harder things I had done solo and tried it and that didn't change much either, so for now I'm happy with how it plays (at least for myself).

As for how I play (I've given up on chasing all of these changes) next years content will decide whether I play it or not and as for now how it plays still has no affect on me, at least not yet.

Edit: So just to keep my comments in context I Believe the game would run better if players were forced to focus on Mechanics and not using DPS as a means of skipping them.

[edited to remove quote]

Cool. Irrespective of that, 'stop using DPS to skip mechanics' is not going to be useful advice to the people affected, least of all when the mechanic is 'You need X DPS'.

Jazraena

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

With all the people deriding standardization here I'd just like to mention that standards aren't bad - it means you get multiple different options to the same end result. Preferably I'd want secondary effects to round out my choices so each has it's niche, but even having visually distinct but mechanically similar options helps maintaining theme and power fantasy for a character.

The crux however is that this Sticky vs Static differentiation is the opposite of standardization. Long duration weak stickies vs strong short duration statics just means everyone will gravitate towards the latter; doubly so considering you need at least one of them for the backbar enchant anyway. People will use strong skills over weak skills.

That's not standardization, that's making one set of skills objectively better than another set of skills unless you actually give those weaker skills their own niche that you would realistically sacrifice damage for.

Pro-Tip: The duration on it's own isn't it.

This is why I suggested that long sticky Dot's increase in damage each tick over their duration. This way they have a function that differs and would be appealing for some players.

It's definitely a take they could consider.

But for now, I just want them to consider that maybe they can't wing it until PTS ends and that it may be better not pushing this mess live before they actually figured out what way they want to go and how to get there.

PingTheAwesome

Thanks for the reply, however half-addressed it may have been. You open on the changes with a brief mention of heals and then glossed right on by....and addressed 2% of the community's concerns (while also completely ignoring the significant changes you are proposing to light and heavy attack builds/strategies/approaches). Your changes do not mention adjustments to the newer content that was created with the current standards of gameplay in mind. This means that fights like vKA HM, vRG HM, and vDSR HM will literally become undoable due to undue burdens on DPS and heal checks caused by.....you, the devs. Even if we followed the mechanics to the letter, we would be unable to advance through the content. This is far from hyperbole; multiple PTS players have released documents explaining their experiences with these proposed changes before they hit the Live server. "Settled" content like vCloudrest (even for an entire team of GH holders) was painstaking and questionably stable at points. You are dropping us off a cliff without lowering the ceiling to match (which is especially ironic given that you claim to be concerned for newer players' access levels to this content while effectively slamming the door in their faces and making already niche sectors even harder to break into).
For the past several weeks, we have been offering you a never-ending deluge of emotional labor. There have been multiple petitions and forum post after forum post telling you our concerns, stresses, suggestions, and anecdotes (as you so lovingly pointed out). But that's the thing. Not everything can or should be a data point or a spreadsheet. It's clear that we are the ones playing and fully interacting with the game. It is clear that the community you have so carefully and diligently fostered has grown to love this game and it's promise enough to speak out. It is clear that the populace has overwhelmingly spoken against these changes you refuse to backtrack from. No one asked for this. There is no way the necessary adaptations to your plans can be made before it hits Live and blossoms as pungently as the corpse flower upon opening. Please seriously consider pushing these changes off to a later date so that they can be properly addressed and measured

....while we're here: Please tell me/us how any of these changes support or address accessibility. You are, after all, supposedly making these changes in my name and that of my community. If you had spoken to your disabled playerbase en masse, you would see that NONE of us want these changes; if there is a small percentage, it is likely .0000000000000001%, no exaggeration there. At the end of the day, there are plenty of changes you could be making (and which have real examples from current games that are live and popular [sound visualization options, anyone?])...but you aren't. Doing this in the name of accessibility is laughable. When are you going to implement a visual sound cue when someone sneaks up on you in PvP? When are you going to ensure that there are better visual options for players who are visually impaired? The changes you are proposing will kill a significant portion of your playerbase's drive and activity (both within the server and in your company's wallets [I mean, let's be honest while we're at this]), while slamming the door in the faces of newer players who already faced a climb into the endgame (assuming that's even where they want to be spending their time; not all do).
You're also claiming to do this for latency's sake, but those players who deal with chronic lag will still struggle with this very real hurdle because the issues cannot be addressed through a software update when the problem is hardware or geography based. Stop hiding behind these two groups of players when nothing you're doing will address the concerns we have so painstakingly laid out to you.

It is clear y'all are not ready. You also are not truly listening, despite claims to the contrary. Your combat team has taken zero accountability for the chilling effect this has had on progress within your game and the communities found within it. You may want data...but that comes in multiple different formats and from a variety of sources -- including all the monies that are leaving with each player you drive off or each player who wavers in re-upping their longheld subscriptions to your services. These players may be but mere numbers to you, but they have names, they have faces, and they have all spoken to you repeatedly as to why this is bad news bears.
Scrap this or significantly delay these changes.

PingTheAwesome

Cool. Irrespective of that, 'stop using DPS to skip mechanics' is not going to be useful advice to the people affected, least of all when the mechanic is 'You need X DPS'.

If this was really and truly about not skipping mechanics, ZoS devs, could, in theory, take older content down piece by piece before re-launching it to match current standards. For example, you could temporarily disable Darkshade Caverns I and II for a determined amount of time to address the coding differences. None of your players said the older content (which is usually what gets burned and skipped through) needs to be redressed now. You have the flexibility to shift how much time is needed and what content is taken offline and then is re-launched first.

The whole "DPS skips through mechanics" is an attempt to bad faith your argument (in anecdotal form, no less) and to derail highly legitimate concerns from across a broad spectrum of the playerbase, from top to bottom. A very real "no thank you" to that commentary.

renne

PingTheAwesome wrote: »

It is clear y'all are not ready. You also are not truly listening, despite claims to the contrary. Your combat team has taken zero accountability for the chilling effect this has had on progress within your game and the communities found within it. You may want data...but that comes in multiple different formats and from a variety of sources -- including all the monies that are leaving with each player you drive off or each player who wavers in re-upping their longheld subscriptions to your services. These players may be but mere numbers to you, but they have names, they have faces, and they have all spoken to you repeatedly as to why this is bad news bears.
Scrap this or significantly delay these changes.

This, literally this.

My annual sub is due to expire in 2 weeks and this PTS is great timing for me deciding if I want to renew, because a hundred and ninety bucks is a lot of money for me. I was happy to pay it in the past but now I just feel like it's gonna be throwing money at someone who doesn't care if anyone enjoys their game, because if they did they wouldn't be doing wholesale sledgehammer spreadsheet nerfs because a bare handful of people can play the game real good.

RevJJ

As was expected, this solves nothing. I hope the devs salaries are not dependent on KPIs for player numbers because I’m sure “mass player exodus” won’t be good for that.

But you do you, ZOS. Keep playing deaf and ignoring this massive outrage. I’m sure it will all work out fine. Just remember to look in the mirror when numbers go down and management asks why.

Poncho28

Wouldn't it be sad to learn this one of a long line of nerfs (P35) was conceived and executed from behind closed doors, just to lessen the blow of OP PvP builds some PvErs might have to endure during the Midyear Mayhem Event, that is right around the corner?

Sure hope marketing didn't have any influence in gameplay decision making, that would suck.

PingTheAwesome

Poncho88 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be sad to learn this one of a long line of nerfs (P35) was conceived and executed from behind closed doors, just to lessen the blow of OP PvP builds some PvErs might have to endure during the Midyear Mayhem Event, that is right around the corner?

Please don't give them any ideas. I already have theories behind the 2-person mount roll-out that I am watching like a hawk.

WreckfulAbandon

No mention of Nocturnals Ploy. I think were hosed guys.

VaranisArano

Poncho88 wrote: »

Wouldn't it be sad to learn this one of a long line of nerfs (P35) was conceived and executed from behind closed doors, just to lessen the blow of OP PvP builds some PvErs might have to endure during the Midyear Mayhem Event, that is right around the corner?

Sure hope marketing didn't have any influence in gameplay decision making, that would suck.

Midyear Mayhem is happening prior to Update 35, so let's put that one to bed.

If you want to look at Marketing, look no further than ZOS' decision to delay nerfing Oakensoul for three months. Sure, sure, ZOS needed to get the data on Live to ensure that they nerfed it properly. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain copies of High Isle sold to players who wanted Oakensoul in the interim.


And ZOS has never really cared that PVEers waltzing into Cyrodiil and Imperial City for the first time get their heads handed to them. Any proper PVP build is "overpowered" to an inexperienced PVEer simply because they don't know how to PVP. It's like if I took a brand new player and shoved them into Vet Maelstrom. It's not going to go well. Not because they are a bad player, necessarily, but because they have no experience and got shoved into the deep end. That's just the nature of inexperienced players in PVP. There's not really a kiddie pool; it's straight into the deep end, sink or swim.

So, uh, no. The many changes to light and heavy attacks, HoTs and DoTs, are being driven by ZOS' desire to reign in "obscene" PVE DPS at the top end. You know, like they said?

Hurbster

And in doing so they have made the game less fun for everyone.

blktauna

My question is, what constitutes no anecdotal feedback?

I don't run cmx anymore and I don't hump dummies. I went out onto the PTS with my toons and simply did the stuff I usually do with ease, and discovered it was no longer easy. I was unable to solo several dungeons I can do easily on live.

That's not an anecdote.

moderatelyfatman

With all due respect: these level of changes are what we'd expect from a game still in beta and not one that has been out for 8 years!

siddique

So, you agree that the change was wrong and not thought through, which is why you bring back some abilities to their original times.

But to save your face you come up with another terrible idea to keep some abilities with longer duration. In the end, contradicting your original reasoning behind these changes (to make it more accessible, to make sure you "see the action happening on the screen, bla bla) yet again. And making it even more complicated than the original terrible idea.

I understand, its hard to admit your mistakes.

Casdha

Jazraena wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

xxxvodnikxxx wrote: »

[snip]

These 140k DPS people might get excluded from high end achievements. They'll still complete normal veteran trials.
The people just barely completing veteran trials no longer will.
The people just barely completing veteran DLCs no longer will.
The people just barely soloing normal world bosses no longer will.

This patch does not hurt 140k DPS people, it hurts everyone. And chances are, it will hurt the lower end, off-meta people a lot more, especially those at the verge of getting access to more difficult content. Some by 40-50%.

[snip]

and if you watch my video elsewhere on the forums, where someone challenged me to Solo test this on a Vet Dungeon you can see that mechanics can still be used in place of DPS a lot of times if you take the time to learn them. (I've never chased DPS, at least not more than is required, to complete content).

Don't presume people are complaining because they can't skip stuff through DPS. They're complaining because they can't complete the content. Whether that content is the dungeon / trial / encounter entirely or specific achievements for it is another matter.

I don't, I've chimed in on that as well in other threads. I was very close to not being here at all this year. If it were not for it being Breton content I wouldn't have been. All I'm saying is that if someone cares as little as I do about how you look to others then these changes don't amount to a hill of beans compared to some of the other changes that have been made over the years (I've went over a year without playing before because I was unhappy with ZOS's direction). I've tried this update (before this next set of changes hit) and it made very little difference in how I play this game,,, if at all.

I will admit that all of this uproar is what made me decide to try it for myself to see if it would affect me as much as every says it will, and it didn't. When I stated so I was challenged to try something harder so I picked one of the harder things I had done solo and tried it and that didn't change much either, so for now I'm happy with how it plays (at least for myself).

As for how I play (I've given up on chasing all of these changes) next years content will decide whether I play it or not and as for now how it plays still has no affect on me, at least not yet.

Edit: So just to keep my comments in context I Believe the game would run better if players were forced to focus on Mechanics and not using DPS as a means of skipping them.

[edited to remove quote]

Cool. Irrespective of that, 'stop using DPS to skip mechanics' is not going to be useful advice to the people affected, least of all when the mechanic is 'You need X DPS'.

The edit at the end of my post was an attempt to surmise the sentiment of the post I was replying too in the first place which a dev seen fit to remove for flaming. It was not meant as advice.

sharpshooter2342

Stamicka wrote: »

It's good to see that at least some feedback was listened to, but I don't think that ZOS as a company understands what these patch notes meant to a lot of players.

These patch notes:
1. Made many endgame players feel unwelcomed
2. Showed a clear lack of direction for ESO's combat
3. Caused players to lose confidence in the dev team
4. Made the devs seem completely out of touch with the game and all types of players

At this point, I don't want to play the game while this current team is making decisions. When every update makes the game worse for many people rather than better, there's a big problem. It feels like it won't get better with the current team.

I absolutely agree with everything you've said. Like why not adjust the content so lower end players can complete it. They've done it in the past to WGT, BRF, and ICP. They completely took out the stone atronachs in bloodroot on the island boss. Whit Gold Tower used to take several hours to complete. The issue with players not being able to complete the content is not a damage issue but their own lack of knowledge of mechanics. The tutorial doesn't explain much at all about how gear sets work or to even wear 5 pieces of a set to get all bonuses. They say it's all due to weaving well why not add an accessibility option for automatic light attacks after pressing an ability? That would help low end dps significantly. The hardest content is not supposed to be easy and it's so rewarding when you finally complete it after working on it for hours. The waking flame dungeons were a joke my group literally completed the hm of both the day it released without a guide. Haven't even tried the most recent ones because we are so disappointed and burned out on all these changes every 3 months we have no drive to play. The promotion of new chapters with strong mythics then nerf said mythic in the next patch is getting old. It's baiting players to buy the product. They say they're not pay to win but honestly in my opinion it's been pay to win since the transmute station came out with clockwork city. It's pretty much something you have to have to be able to do end game content Then there's jewelry crafting you have to have summerset to do which is another increase to dps so players have to have it for end game. Then there's the Necro class it sold elsweyr and has been one of the too DPS in end game since it's release. Every new patch or chapter is sold for the next best gear and then nerfed. It's very tiring and sad because it has pushed me and my friends of 7-8 years of playing together away from the game we have loved so much. So what there's power creep. Let us play how we want.

BretonMage

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

vivisectvib16_ESO wrote: »

Caff32 wrote: »

Stop. Looking. At. Spreadsheets.
Start. Listening. To. Your. Players.
WE. DON'T. WANT. THESE. CHANGES.

This. No one asked for this. Especially this late into the game's life-cycle. I'm sick and tired of being exhausted by the mental gymnastics being played by the dev/design teams in order to justify constantly putting their players through the ringer and then acting like we're out of line when we're upset/react.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Gilliam @ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_RichLambert

The main reason for the nerfs is "damage bloat". The devs want these changes, not the players. In this case what players want doesn't matter it's a dev driven change.

I wonder if ZOS realises where this damage bloat comes from. Because their actions do not seem to suggest they do.

TekNut71

Xandreia_ wrote: »

honestly, just go back to the drawing board and scrap these changes, im sure people will be ok waiting for the big update if its not going to kill the game!

Mic Drop...