Why are sorcerers nerfed so much?

Melzo

[snip] I will explain why the sorcerers received a nerf.

In this patch, sorcerers are very strong due to the presence of hybridization and the settlement of crystal weapons. Compared to a necromancer or ranged warden. The crystal does more damage than blastbones, the curse does as much damage as blastbones, and the knives do as much damage as blastbones. Can they give me three blastbones?? Where did we leave off? And three abilities work just as well or even better than blastbones. What can I say??? Stam sorcerers got cursed and 2 hits with crystal weapons. The nerf to crystal weapons will bring the current patch closer to normalization. And nerfing knives leads to normalization for the next patch, because everyone is nerfed there.

So, the conclusion is that these two abilities are nerfed for the current patch, because the sorcerers are too strong, and for the next one, because everyone is nerfed there. If only crystal weapons are nerfed, sorcerers will still be the strongest class in the next patch due to a massive nerf across all classes. Thus, this nerf can be divided into two stages.
1 nerf to crystal weapons for this patch and 2 nerfs to knives for the next one.

[snip] Other classes have much worse nerfs.

[edited for baiting]

MetallicMonk

I'm going to assume this post is mostly addressed at PvE but from what I've heard experienced your post isn't completely true even in a PvE context. Crystal weapon was overloaded for sure it needed to be nerfed, especially in PvP it was way too loaded and very thoughtless pressure especially for ranged builds. That doesn't justify that from what I've seen sorcs are not only on the low end for dps in PvE, stam or mag, but they're absolutely one of the worst if not the worst class in pvp especially magsorc. It just has almost no redeeming qualities currently, in pvp it is a very high effort for very little reward class atm and there just really isn't a reason to play one.

Melzo

sorcerer mage didn't get a significant nerf. Rather, Stam the sorcerer became weaker. I'm talking about pvp.

MetallicMonk

Magsorc indirectly got a nerf just because the only skill carrying it was crystal weapon, not only that but it was also carried by the savage werewolf set which is getting nerfed too. It was basically just a lesser bowsorc lmao. Sorcerer has almost 0 class identity atm and is also just low tier in general.

No sensible player in this game thinks magsorc is strong in PvP atm so you'd be even more wrong on that front.

Melzo

I played as a sorcerer mage. And it was much easier for me than when I played as a warden or a Necromancer. This is despite the fact that I played a necromancer for two years and a sorcerer for a month ... And I used a magic crystal. The mage sorcerer is strong, just the stam sorcerer eclipsed him.

I don't know what makes you think that the magic sorcerer is weak. heh

AdamLAD

Make sheilds great again

Priyasekarssk

Dude duel me with your mage sorc. Just kill me one time out of 100 times. Mage Sorc is very weak. They lack everything. Only thing sorc have is streak that too can be countered easily. Sorc completely lack the tankiness. Mage sorc is strong ? [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Goldtistic

Well magsorc is a completely dead playstyle unfortunately, and stamsorc could have been addressed MUCH differently. Also if this is a pvp argument: my brother in christ, all of these things are roll-able and don't apply major defile, unlike blastbones. But I really don't see the sense in having EVERYTHING NERFED ACROSS THE BOARD? Storm atro and pets being nerfed are just overkill and are a total knee-jerk reaction to stamsorcs hitting that ends up hitting magsorc even more.

IonicKai

From a PvE perspective Stam sorcs only excel at single target. They are actually weaker than cros in literally every encounter that isn't pure single target because their cleave is significantly worse and their only ways to gain cleave requires dropping some of the skills that grant their power. From a purely PvE perspective these nerfs to everything that made up a Stam sorc (some of which are used by mag as well) will basically destroy class viability and it will be relegated to a support class if even brought in to comp. These weren't small nerfs to a couple abilities. They crippled the entire kit of stam sorc and half the kit of mag sorc....

Melzo

To read you so you are all poor things. Have you ever seen a necromancer and Warden mage range?? The poor things nerfed them. Necro and Warden have been dead at long range for over a year now. Now the NB and the sorcerer are fighting in ranged combat. The invisibility of the NB and the mobility of the sorcerer is an absolute advantage and their damage does not suffer much when playing at long range. You may well, like everyone else, fight in close combat))) the Akinos does just that. And you just take advantage of the fact that you have an advantage over all other classes .. And whine because he was taken away. I played pvp with an ice staff as a varden. When I get 30 percent HP, I heal myself for 3 ka from a hurricane. Plar with a finisher of 8k. I heal in the block slower than they hit me with a finisher. Yes, I can take the heal for stamina and the heal from the restoring staff. But what is the advantage over the sorcerer??? zero. Damage is weaker five times, mobility is worse, healing is worse .. This is despite the fact that the Warden is not my main class. You have to either ultra fat or through burst damage to play. And lick walls faster than any other player. With hybridization and damage reduction and subsequent adjustments, high damage can be achieved either through medium armor or burst sets and burst damage. As a result, Warden, necromancer, plar, dk fight in melee and you poor things do more damage in ranged combat than they do in melee. Oh well.

Minalan

Gilliam only plays nightblade, not Sorc. That’s why Sorc is trash in a nutshell.

He won’t play Sorc, it’s not fun for him or anyone else at this point.

Didgerion

Melzo wrote: »

To read you so you are all poor things. Have you ever seen a necromancer and Warden mage range?? The poor things nerfed them. Necro and Warden have been dead at long range for over a year now. Now the NB and the sorcerer are fighting in ranged combat. The invisibility of the NB and the mobility of the sorcerer is an absolute advantage and their damage does not suffer much when playing at long range. You may well, like everyone else, fight in close combat))) the Akinos does just that. And you just take advantage of the fact that you have an advantage over all other classes .. And whine because he was taken away. I played pvp with an ice staff as a varden. When I get 30 percent HP, I heal myself for 3 ka from a hurricane. Plar with a finisher of 8k. I heal in the block slower than they hit me with a finisher. Yes, I can take the heal for stamina and the heal from the restoring staff. But what is the advantage over the sorcerer??? zero. Damage is weaker five times, mobility is worse, healing is worse .. This is despite the fact that the Warden is not my main class. You have to either ultra fat or through burst damage to play. And lick walls faster than any other player. With hybridization and damage reduction and subsequent adjustments, high damage can be achieved either through medium armor or burst sets and burst damage. As a result, Warden, necromancer, plar, dk fight in melee and you poor things do more damage in ranged combat than they do in melee. Oh well.

The light range attacks will do much less damage next patch than it used to. That change alone would have balanced sorc bow builds imo.

MetallicMonk

Didgerion wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

To read you so you are all poor things. Have you ever seen a necromancer and Warden mage range?? The poor things nerfed them. Necro and Warden have been dead at long range for over a year now. Now the NB and the sorcerer are fighting in ranged combat. The invisibility of the NB and the mobility of the sorcerer is an absolute advantage and their damage does not suffer much when playing at long range. You may well, like everyone else, fight in close combat))) the Akinos does just that. And you just take advantage of the fact that you have an advantage over all other classes .. And whine because he was taken away. I played pvp with an ice staff as a varden. When I get 30 percent HP, I heal myself for 3 ka from a hurricane. Plar with a finisher of 8k. I heal in the block slower than they hit me with a finisher. Yes, I can take the heal for stamina and the heal from the restoring staff. But what is the advantage over the sorcerer??? zero. Damage is weaker five times, mobility is worse, healing is worse .. This is despite the fact that the Warden is not my main class. You have to either ultra fat or through burst damage to play. And lick walls faster than any other player. With hybridization and damage reduction and subsequent adjustments, high damage can be achieved either through medium armor or burst sets and burst damage. As a result, Warden, necromancer, plar, dk fight in melee and you poor things do more damage in ranged combat than they do in melee. Oh well.

The light range attacks will do much less damage next patch than it used to. That change alone would have balanced sorc bow builds imo.

Na crystal weapon and Savage WW needed nuked, but giving nothing in return to already lacking magsorc and furthermore nerfing mines and bound armaments when the class is already pretty bottom tier is unacceptable.

taugrim

Didgerion wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

To read you so you are all poor things. Have you ever seen a necromancer and Warden mage range?? The poor things nerfed them. Necro and Warden have been dead at long range for over a year now. Now the NB and the sorcerer are fighting in ranged combat. The invisibility of the NB and the mobility of the sorcerer is an absolute advantage and their damage does not suffer much when playing at long range. You may well, like everyone else, fight in close combat))) the Akinos does just that. And you just take advantage of the fact that you have an advantage over all other classes .. And whine because he was taken away. I played pvp with an ice staff as a varden. When I get 30 percent HP, I heal myself for 3 ka from a hurricane. Plar with a finisher of 8k. I heal in the block slower than they hit me with a finisher. Yes, I can take the heal for stamina and the heal from the restoring staff. But what is the advantage over the sorcerer??? zero. Damage is weaker five times, mobility is worse, healing is worse .. This is despite the fact that the Warden is not my main class. You have to either ultra fat or through burst damage to play. And lick walls faster than any other player. With hybridization and damage reduction and subsequent adjustments, high damage can be achieved either through medium armor or burst sets and burst damage. As a result, Warden, necromancer, plar, dk fight in melee and you poor things do more damage in ranged combat than they do in melee. Oh well.

The light range attacks will do much less damage next patch than it used to. That change alone would have balanced sorc bow builds imo.

It wouldn't.

Crystal Weapon does melee damage but can be applied on live from range. That makes zero sense. If ranged hits as hard as melee, there's no reason to play melee, as you get shot on the way in and on the way out.

The other problem today with Stamsorc bow builds is the synergy with Savage Werewolf, which overprocs on live. It's completely unsurprising that Savage Werewolf is nerfed on the PTS.

Zabagad

taugrim wrote: »

Crystal Weapon does melee damage but can be applied on live from range.

So does Inevitable Detonation, Imbue Weapon, Mages Fury Proc and many others. That's only a definition and has nothing to do with melee vs. ranged.

starkerealm

Minalan wrote: »

Gilliam only plays nightblade, not Sorc. That’s why Sorc is trash in a nutshell.

He won’t play Sorc, it’s not fun for him or anyone else at this point.

Translation: He doesn't want to play sorc, so he's making it easier to farm sorc kills.

Klingenlied

Not saying sorc might not be over-nerfed. However, I would assume that Sorc should still beat Wardens in PvP. So yea .. welcome to bottom tier?

fred4

Priyasekarssk wrote: »

Dude duel me with your mage sorc. Just kill me one time out of 100 times. Mage Sorc is very weak. They lack everything. Only thing sorc have is streak that too can be countered easily. Sorc completely lack the tankiness. Mage sorc is strong ? [snip]

[edited for baiting]

I suppose when they kill you with Crushing Shock and Crystal Weapon, you'll call that a hybrid sorc .

Didgerion

MetallicMonk wrote: »

Didgerion wrote: »

Melzo wrote: »

To read you so you are all poor things. Have you ever seen a necromancer and Warden mage range?? The poor things nerfed them. Necro and Warden have been dead at long range for over a year now. Now the NB and the sorcerer are fighting in ranged combat. The invisibility of the NB and the mobility of the sorcerer is an absolute advantage and their damage does not suffer much when playing at long range. You may well, like everyone else, fight in close combat))) the Akinos does just that. And you just take advantage of the fact that you have an advantage over all other classes .. And whine because he was taken away. I played pvp with an ice staff as a varden. When I get 30 percent HP, I heal myself for 3 ka from a hurricane. Plar with a finisher of 8k. I heal in the block slower than they hit me with a finisher. Yes, I can take the heal for stamina and the heal from the restoring staff. But what is the advantage over the sorcerer??? zero. Damage is weaker five times, mobility is worse, healing is worse .. This is despite the fact that the Warden is not my main class. You have to either ultra fat or through burst damage to play. And lick walls faster than any other player. With hybridization and damage reduction and subsequent adjustments, high damage can be achieved either through medium armor or burst sets and burst damage. As a result, Warden, necromancer, plar, dk fight in melee and you poor things do more damage in ranged combat than they do in melee. Oh well.

The light range attacks will do much less damage next patch than it used to. That change alone would have balanced sorc bow builds imo.

Na crystal weapon and Savage WW needed nuked, but giving nothing in return to already lacking magsorc and furthermore nerfing mines and bound armaments when the class is already pretty bottom tier is unacceptable.

I agree about Savage WW.
Proc sets is one of two reasons I stay away from CP campaigns.
But I disagree about Crystal Weapon nerf.
The sad part about it is we don't know who's right, you or me, because we've never seen how the current Crystal Weapon performs with light attacks and Savage WW nerfs.
But I can tell that in No-CP campaign bow stamsorc doesn't seem that strong, providing they are not wearing that broken Oakensoul ring.

acastanza_ESO

In no-proc Crystal Weapon is strong, but even stacking crystal weapon with crushing shock, and bound armaments, with oakensoul it can easily be outhealed or tanked through by DKs and Templars, who when go in for the kill now that the sorc is completely out of resources, and Nightblades have easily been able to shade away before the killing blow can come through (and then kill the sorc from behind with an incap). The tooltip on crystal weapon is not that high compared to other skills and it is EXPENSIVE. It finally gives sorc access to good pressure without insane RNG but it still generally relies on having help to get a killing blow. Crystal weapon was ONLY overpowered when stacked with savage werewolf. The SKILL didn't need to be nerfed, the SET did, not both.

prof_doom

Thus far all the parses I've seen from the PTS make Sorc and Warden the weakest classes.

Mr_Stach

prof_doom wrote: »

Thus far all the parses I've seen from the PTS make Sorc and Warden the weakest classes.

Correct

Didgerion

prof_doom wrote: »

Thus far all the parses I've seen from the PTS make Sorc and Warden the weakest classes.

I didn't see any sorc parse, can you link it in here?

prof_doom

Didgerion wrote: »

prof_doom wrote: »

Thus far all the parses I've seen from the PTS make Sorc and Warden the weakest classes.

I didn't see any sorc parse, can you link it in here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MKbMwRi-1k&ab_channel=exiledtyrant
- someone did a video
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/discussion/comment/7657127 - a few here on page 2
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/611325/what-power-creep-over-the-last-years-my-dps-has-steadily-declined - They did a magsorc parse

And I would point out that took me an entire 2 minutes of effort.

Tannus15

Didgerion wrote: »

prof_doom wrote: »

Thus far all the parses I've seen from the PTS make Sorc and Warden the weakest classes.

I didn't see any sorc parse, can you link it in here?

i've done so many. soooo many.

taugrim

Zabagad wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

Crystal Weapon does melee damage but can be applied on live from range.

So does Inevitable Detonation, Imbue Weapon, Mages Fury Proc and many others. That's only a definition and has nothing to do with melee vs. ranged.

Inevitable Detonation: LOL nobody runs this. Also, not a spammable
Imbue Weapon: LOL nobody runs this (sadly). Also, far weaker than Crystal Weapon: have to cast before each light attack, has shorter duration, and doesn't trigger class passives
Mages Fury: not a spammable. One of the defining abilities of Sorcs without being OP

EDIT: fixed the erroneous mention of Imbue Weapon as not a spammable. Copy and paste fail FTL.

Minalan

starkerealm wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Gilliam only plays nightblade, not Sorc. That’s why Sorc is trash in a nutshell.

He won’t play Sorc, it’s not fun for him or anyone else at this point.

Translation: He doesn't want to play sorc, so he's making it easier to farm sorc kills.

Meanwhile, Nightblade gets buffed 20 patches in a row. If it wasn’t pathetic, this would be really funny.

Tannus15

taugrim wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

Crystal Weapon does melee damage but can be applied on live from range.

So does Inevitable Detonation, Imbue Weapon, Mages Fury Proc and many others. That's only a definition and has nothing to do with melee vs. ranged.

Inevitable Detonation: LOL nobody runs this. Also, not a spammable
Imbue Weapon: LOL nobody runs this (sadly). Also not a spammable. Also, far weaker than Crystal Weapon: have to cast before each light attack, has shorter duration, and doesn't trigger class passives
Mages Fury: not a spammable. One of the defining abilities of Sorcs without being OP

crushing weapon is better than crystal weapon now



vs

Minalan

You know you’re playing Sorc when your bar is full of skills everyone can use. And streak.

Zabagad

taugrim wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

taugrim wrote: »

Crystal Weapon does melee damage but can be applied on live from range.

So does Inevitable Detonation, Imbue Weapon, Mages Fury Proc and many others. That's only a definition and has nothing to do with melee vs. ranged.

Inevitable Detonation: LOL nobody runs this. Also, not a spammable
Imbue Weapon: LOL nobody runs this (sadly). Also not a spammable. Also, far weaker than Crystal Weapon: have to cast before each light attack, has shorter duration, and doesn't trigger class passives
Mages Fury: not a spammable. One of the defining abilities of Sorcs without being OP

You startet with the argument: "Crystal Weapon does melee damage but can be applied on live from range."
I gave you other examples which do the same and your answer is LOL this and LOL that.
You (we) could discuss the diff between Imbue Wpn and Crystal - but that was not your point I was answering to.

Maybe it was only a misscommunication and you didn't mean the def. of melee (I was talking about the "if you do melee dmg...blabla" melee) and maybe you mean only the dmg it does is like a melee dmg?
But a discussion with somebody who says: "One of the defining abilities of Sorcs without being OP" is senseless anyway.

Didgerion

Also no one is talking about it yet, but how exactly stamsorcs are supposed to heal themselves?