Why I fake tank

OolongSnakeTea

JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »

As about DPS tank unfortunatly it is not possible in game on current moment ( because to do damage you need high stats - so unfortunatly - but tanking on DD is much simpler than make DPS tank. It is some builds that can let tank DO good AOE damage - but with small damage to solo target and you rotation becomes more harder than on DD - as example with rotation -

Skill+Bash+La->Skill+Bash+La->Skill+Bash+La-> you only will get about 17 k DPS (

But no matter ))) I like to damage on my tank

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDr2t08jg3c

Hi, I do just fine clearing vet-4man dungeons with both friends and pugs alike. I get my 2 keys and everthing with the pledges with my 2handed tanks, and still sustain around 25k in combat DPS and don't die. It works out fine. Its just a matter of thinkin', some smart gear swaps and learning rotations + taunt and add priority.

All my DPS-Tank builds are vet tested and vet cleared.

JustAGoodPlayer

OolongSnakeTea wrote: »

JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »

As about DPS tank unfortunatly it is not possible in game on current moment ( because to do damage you need high stats - so unfortunatly - but tanking on DD is much simpler than make DPS tank. It is some builds that can let tank DO good AOE damage - but with small damage to solo target and you rotation becomes more harder than on DD - as example with rotation -

Skill+Bash+La->Skill+Bash+La->Skill+Bash+La-> you only will get about 17 k DPS (

But no matter ))) I like to damage on my tank

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDr2t08jg3c

Hi, I do just fine clearing vet-4man dungeons with both friends and pugs alike. I get my 2 keys and everthing with the pledges with my 2handed tanks, and still sustain around 25k in combat DPS and don't die. It works out fine. Its just a matter of thinkin', some smart gear swaps and learning rotations + taunt and add priority.

All my DPS-Tank builds are vet tested and vet cleared.

Not bad than ))) I usually walk on tank and some times swap second panel on AOE DD - if damage is not good enough or some times use set dedlands demolisher (about 15-20 k DPS in permoblok)

But more often i play on DD now - so tank is for bosses i can not pass on DD )))

kindred

Instead of making this an ego thing. Oh i carry the group they're luck to have me or a selfish thing. Oh i don't have time to wait in que like everyone else, why don't you just solo the dungeon. Then you can feel like a badass to yourself and you don't have to wait in que and nobody there to complain about it.

AnnetteW

JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »

1) Not enough tanks. game is not friendly for them. Randoms do not make a lot of damage and some times play not really good, so it is understandable. The same time new tanks can be not respected and can be even kicked from group or get very bad words to there adress - that dissapoint them.

Every player that is in-game was once bad.

JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »

2) Why such problem appear now ?

Now? Cuz this problem Bethesda changed dungeon finder years ago,...

Auldwulfe

Ok, I am currently trying to learn to tank - the main difficulty I have run into is that I am probably what would be considered a mid-range player -- My DPS Magica based Sorcerer does very well, at least from what I have seen, and has been my main for a while.
The issues is that my Templar, I am planning on tanking with, has more or less been a Paladin, while I built him up - Sword and Shield on front bar, 2-handed sword on back.
Also, being that I am a grandfather, and not particularly fast, I tend towards the same skills on both bars -- javelin, dark flame (for the damage buff) Shield rush, and taunt thrust, with a heal for my front 5, and and the same, with Stampede and Brawler on my back bar - same three skills

Right now, my ultimate is the sweep, until I can finish and get Meridia's Sword, which has been suggested to me.

I am, honestly, asking how I would rate on this -- I use my javelin to try and slow groups rushing the healer, 2-handed with Stampede for the AOE in group situations, and the shield rush and taunt combo when a boss comes out, to get to it, and get it on me.

I show up as CP 700+ due to my two sorcerers (one a stamina one, and my duel wield ice mage warden I worked for a while), but have only just gotten the templar to level 50 in the relevant skills needed.

At this moment, he is still wearing two Crit focused armor sets - 3 heavy, and 4 medium pieces, but am planning on swapping him over to more armor and health based stuff, and going 4 heavy, 3 medium.
Thing is, up until now, in order to level him, I have had to focus it all on stamina, and play him that way ---- and I have found that when I tank for some groups, they expect me to keep ahead, keep running while they zerg into it, and still keep things up - one guy even noted that "at least you aren't just a slow damage sponge, you do things in the group".....

I am, honestly, really wanting to know if I am doing it right, or was that guy just a POS?

Auldwulfe

I'm also going to point out that the times I tried using the skills suggested for tanks, on the online sites .... I got criticized for "not doing enough", despite trying to be MORE of a tank, in the tank role --- lately, I haven't even bothered with the queue much.

I am, actually, asking for advice, but also, noting that the definition of "Fake Tank" isn't very well defined.

Auldwulfe

Dragkiris

The problem continues to be how bad the average DPS is. I dont run my real tank or healers in PUGS... the final straw was me tanking and a friend healing. I was in spaulder/yoln/TT. healer was symph/spc/pa... Total group DPS never cracke 20k in a nCT. Thats with me and healer doing 12k between us.

Why would a competent player subject themselves to that? These werent low CP players either. they were both around 1k CP points

AnnetteW

SapAndFury wrote: »

I’ll admit it. I’m a real tank and I fake tank for normal dungeons (even DLC). Certain base game vet dungeons can easily be fake tanked as well. I don’t even slot a taunt, just Ele drain. We are 7 years since Maelstrom Arena dropped. Self heals and the ability to keep adds in the ground dots are kind of an expectation of dps in casual content.

Soo U got level 10 and U got dungeon in finder (first dungeon with +100% xp is lvl 10-19) and tank is fake **** like U. Sooo U must kill all adds and tank boss... for this U need healing ability and AoE skills. Can U write me "good" healing ability for nightblade, DK, necromancer and sorc, .... for lvl 10?

PS Ok templar and warder is kinda easy answer, but few healing abilities casted in low time can **** your resources,... soo U have now magicka/stamina for "good DPS" another healing. Soo your "fake roles" makes other players bad experience in dungeon.

AnnetteW

have low magicka/stamina for "good DPS" and another healing. *

AnnetteW

Can U just create new character (any class) and try (any) dungeon with lvl 10 (max +1 friend, lvl 10 too) on your own skin?

JustAGoodPlayer

AnnetteW
>>JustAGoodPlayer wrote:
1) Not enough tanks. game is not friendly for them. Randoms do not make a lot of damage and some times play not really good, so it is understandable. The same time new tanks can be not respected and can be even kicked from group or get very bad words to there adress - that dissapoint them.
Every player that is in-game was once bad.
JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »
2) Why such problem appear now ?
Now? Cuz this problem Bethesda changed dungeon finder years ago,...
<<

1) Some are not interested - because they are exped - others need help in more healing / resource support / more dps to kill trash because of bad current tank setups. Just givingg advices do not really do nothing - only dissapoin new players and make exp players angry because less exp players try give advices for them for no reason.

2) Tank find dunguans instantly so all works fine - but yes some times it is a bug - I do not know how it works but for some rreason if OFF finder do dodge and start find again it works.

It is not understandable by humans - but for last 2-3 years alliens are making a game as it looks like )))

AnnetteW

AnnetteW wrote: »

Can U just create new character (any class) and try (any) dungeon with lvl 10 (max +1 friend, lvl 10 too) on your own skin?

Let's say tank is fake and healer is his friend soo they runned away and skipped all adds and first bosses, soo it's now up to U to kill them is max +1 friend (both lvl 10)...

So U have now also story for this (it happens to me a lot)

svendf

AnnetteW wrote: »

AnnetteW wrote: »

Can U just create new character (any class) and try (any) dungeon with lvl 10 (max +1 friend, lvl 10 too) on your own skin?

Let's say tank is fake and healer is his friend soo they runned away and skipped all adds and first bosses, soo it's now up to U to kill them is max +1 friend (both lvl 10)...

So U have now also story for this (it happens to me a lot)

Add to that the free xp you give them, when taking care of all they are leaving behind. They will not get the loot and I can assure you, they don´t care.

svendf

JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »

AnnetteW
>>JustAGoodPlayer wrote:
1) Not enough tanks. game is not friendly for them. Randoms do not make a lot of damage and some times play not really good, so it is understandable. The same time new tanks can be not respected and can be even kicked from group or get very bad words to there adress - that dissapoint them.
Every player that is in-game was once bad.
JustAGoodPlayer wrote: »
2) Why such problem appear now ?
Now? Cuz this problem Bethesda changed dungeon finder years ago,...
<<

1) Some are not interested - because they are exped - others need help in more healing / resource support / more dps to kill trash because of bad current tank setups. Just givingg advices do not really do nothing - only dissapoin new players and make exp players angry because less exp players try give advices for them for no reason.

2) Tank find dunguans instantly so all works fine - but yes some times it is a bug - I do not know how it works but for some rreason if OFF finder do dodge and start find again it works.

It is not understandable by humans - but for last 2-3 years alliens are making a game as it looks like )))

No they are tired of speedsters running through dungeons as they level up their tank. Haha it´s really simple

JustAGoodPlayer

Speed ruiners is ... different story )))

svendf

Hahaha laughed at that one. Good name

RedTalon

At-least this is a good case for the new update coming

WinterHeart626

dmnqwk wrote: »

Hi, so you want to tank but you also think 'oh but then noone is 'damages producant' because if I don't tank I don't get a queue but if I do tank and go full tank we have no group damage...

Frontbar: Pucturing Remedy (Master's 1h+s)
Backbar: Maelstrom Greatsword
Set 1: Order's Wrath
Set 2: Spriggans, Tzogvins, anything you like really.

Why do I mention this? Well, I like messing about with tanking and was having fun trying 5 piece light armor tanking (It was doable, but slightly on the low damage single target). But after looking into things, I realised by giving up monster set I can hit 30k single target by using more medium armor pieces, more offensive sets and relying on the buff provided by Puncturing Remedy (by giving up a monster set) to achieve the goal.

So for those who are good at dpsing but worry if they tank, the group damage is too bad. Consider the fact that you can hit 30k single target with Sugar Cookies (meaning terrible sustain) and having Pierce Armor as a spammable!

My DK has been hitting 20-25k for a while (I realised yesterday she's still in purple seventh legion and hundings, so not exactly amazing gear lol) while my Warden (who was wearing permablock aoe focus and only doing 12-14k single target) now has the same stuff as my NB and has hit the same 30k single target.

It's not going to be great as supportive sets, but if you're doing normal dungeons it doesn't matter - providing the 9-11k penetration and keeping the boss still is all you really need. And if you're also chipping in 25k damage then the group only has to produce... 0 damage for it to be completed in a reasonable amount of time!

It's easy to make excuses why you want to justify fake tanking, but after 20 years of finding ways to produce dps as a tank, I know it's always nonsense! (Sure it's rougher in ESO, but definitely not impossible. And if I wanted to chug pots constantly I could use a proper spammable and add 5-10k instantly to that number)

I run hexos ward + vicious ophidian (nightblade) with inner fire taunt, two hander (the dragon star arena one) cleave, and 3 other skills of choice (and an execute).
Instant dps that can tank things and still murder face in normal content.
Heals? That’s what the back bars for. Also packs an impale. 50-60k crits in the right group, was doing those in Asylum Sanctorum with 6 other players. Yep, 7 manned. With an adhock group of misfits. If you died, you got teabagged. (We are close mind, so this behaviour is only among us).

svendf

I have never been a fan of myth, where people will put their own bread and butter in harms way. I have no idea , what the end result will be with this upsate.

Will it change, what this topic is about or some of it ? I don´t know. Do I hope ? Ahaha at the moment im playing another mmo and very pleased, with it.

The answer is alway´s out there and sometimes very complicated. Im pleased, im not walking their shoes.

AvalonRanger

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Good DPS with a taunt = Great random normal tank

Anyone in tank role who refuses to slot a taunt = Instant kick

No amount of DPS you contribute is going to make up for the boss running all over the place and killing group members that did not sign up for the tank role.

Fake tank keep making fake DPS build (Not pure DPS build but more solo focused).

Lynxyn

Daggerfell0929 wrote: »

I am not a top 1% parser, but I can parse a solid 90k. And to be honest most people who play this game can't even parse 50k+. If I were to honestly tank with the group doing 15k damage altogether then dungeons would take FOREVER. When I fake tank, I end up doing like 70-80% of the group's damage and we finish the dungeon in under 10 minutes. If anything, I am doing the other people in the group a favor. I suggest Random normal dungeons 4 people can queue up regardless of role because they are so easy anyway.

news flash: no one cares. if you have a taunt i don't care if you have 20k hp in full light as long as you're knowledgeable enough to survive. the ISSUE is the new players who think they broke the 4th wall by picking tank in role selection with 21k hp light attack spamming with an inferno staff and all light armor. my options boil down to A.) asking them to slot a taunt only for them to inevitably ignore me because it "worked" for them level 1-50 B.) leave the group and get a leaver penalty C.) attempt to vote kick them only to not really know why the got kicked and have to wait for a replacement tank who might also be another fake tank anyways or D.) do nothing and continue because i can tediously solo the dungeon anyways

none of those are sustainable and should have been fixed years ago simply by requiring a taunt in order to queue tank. i just did a cauldron where because i got one of these groups i had to be the tank (because healers have the highest aggro outside of taunt), do all the mechanics and contribute over half the group's dps despite being in my full healer setup minus 1 skill which i queued to level. its not fun to have to do roles that i did not sign up for because someone else signed up for a role they very clearly are not prepared for thinking it works because the game does not teach them otherwise.

jtm1018

Daggerfell0929 wrote: »

I am not a top 1% parser, but I can parse a solid 90k. And to be honest most people who play this game can't even parse 50k+. If I were to honestly tank with the group doing 15k damage altogether then dungeons would take FOREVER. When I fake tank, I end up doing like 70-80% of the group's damage and we finish the dungeon in under 10 minutes. If anything, I am doing the other people in the group a favor. I suggest Random normal dungeons 4 people can queue up regardless of role because they are so easy anyway.

Its random normal, anyone who gets angry with fake tank and or healer is a stick in the mud.
A group of level 10 can clear it easy. Smh.

Jazraena

jtm1018 wrote: »

Daggerfell0929 wrote: »

I am not a top 1% parser, but I can parse a solid 90k. And to be honest most people who play this game can't even parse 50k+. If I were to honestly tank with the group doing 15k damage altogether then dungeons would take FOREVER. When I fake tank, I end up doing like 70-80% of the group's damage and we finish the dungeon in under 10 minutes. If anything, I am doing the other people in the group a favor. I suggest Random normal dungeons 4 people can queue up regardless of role because they are so easy anyway.

Its random normal, anyone who gets angry with fake tank and or healer is a stick in the mud.
A group of level 10 can clear it easy. Smh.

You vastly underestimate the sheer chaos a fake tank can cause in some Random Normal DLCs. Or how many of them get flattened 3 seconds into a boss fight.

And irrespective of that, the boss running around like a headless chicken does not make the fight faster, nor does it help that DPS suddenly has to sacrifice damage to stay alive because one of the group felt like they're entitled to queue skip and not do their job.

I don't care if you think we don't need a tank. If I can't use Fury on my vampire, miss out on my NB flanking bonus and generally suddenly have to facetank a boss on a DPS glass cannon or on a healer while I have to try and keep people alive from a boss cleaving randomly into the party then your queue skipping comes at the rest of the group's expense.

At the minimum it's rude even towards people who could handle it, simply because they shouldn't have to. It's a whole lot worse if the group actually includes inexperienced players who may, in fact, not be able to handle it.

jtm1018

Seriously, rnd is like overland content, I dont get the toxicity in it at all. Or is my 5+ years of experience in the game cloud my opinion. Oh welph.

Jazraena

jtm1018 wrote: »

Seriously, rnd is like overland content, I dont get the toxicity in it at all. Or is my 5+ years of experience in the game cloud my opinion. Oh welph.

Yes. It does.

Sure, I can bloody solo Fungal Grotto. But a) I shouldn't have to and b) while I may be able to do so, the level 10 doing his first dungeon is not.

And when we're talking Falkreath, Moonhunter Keep and similar DLC dungeons those issues grow exponentially.

Carcamongus

jtm1018 wrote: »

Seriously, rnd is like overland content, I dont get the toxicity in it at all. Or is my 5+ years of experience in the game cloud my opinion. Oh welph.

Jazraena wrote: »

Yes. It does.

Sure, I can bloody solo Fungal Grotto. But a) I shouldn't have to and b) while I may be able to do so, the level 10 doing his first dungeon is not.

And when we're talking Falkreath, Moonhunter Keep and similar DLC dungeons those issues grow exponentially.

The player who asked me, the tank with a sword and shield, if I had a taunt the moment I arrived at normal Depths of Malatar (I mentioned that in an earlier post) most likely did not have a good time with fake tanks. Ah, and the person wasn't a noob.

CompM4s

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

It's great until you get a group with a fake healer as a fake tank in Lair of Maarselok with a pair of CP 200s. That's when you wipe and it's more or less your (and the fake healer's) fault.

Regardless, it's obnoxious and you're making excuses for bad behavior. Insert Simpsons "Am I out of touch? No it's the children who are wrong" meme here.

That is why I also have a heal as a fake tank, no wipes. Undaunted taunt and heal I am all 3 roles : D

Probably also the type to run ahead as fast as possible in lowbie dungeons, leaving low levels behind. If you wanna play a solo build, do it solo. If you're queueing as a tank, you should be a tank. New players are going to learn bad habits, or have a bad experience with this game, because you want to do dungeons fast. Btw, queueing as a DPS doesn't take that long anymore; 2-5 minutes on average. So if you're a DPS, just queue while you do your writs or something. You might get paired with a fake tank, but you might get a group of lowbies that don't know what they're doing, and it's your job as a veteran player to set an example. If everyone is CP 1 million or whatever, do whatever but as a CP 1600, I dislike it when the tank or a healer are anything but a tank or a healer unless they're under level 50, then I just assume they don't know what they're doing most of the time (or aren't used to the game yet).

Unfortunately, you cant que solo for the random daily; and people want their daily transmutes. Im sure they would do it solo if zos allowed it