Why I fake tank

zaria

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

It's great until you get a group with a fake healer as a fake tank in Lair of Maarselok with a pair of CP 200s. That's when you wipe and it's more or less your (and the fake healer's) fault.

Regardless, it's obnoxious and you're making excuses for bad behavior. Insert Simpsons "Am I out of touch? No it's the children who are wrong" meme here.

happened to this one, but as an real healer who could switch between an good DD with off heal to an basic trial healer.
I was farming for jorvuld's guidance so Scalecaller Peak normal, got a group two dd and a tank, lvl 46, cp 130 and 180.
We passed the first boss but it took forever and I could just use gear from the 180, but they was eager new players so I just say lets queue for another RND. we got FG1
Obviously if they had not been friendly I would just left.

AoEnwyr

Getting through it quicker doesn't equate to doing other players a favour. People are trying to learn their roles and how that fits into a normal party setup.

I had a "fake tank" about a week ago who spent half the dungeon tanking the floor because not only weren't they a tank, they wanted to GO FAST and ran around pulling everything, then wondered why they were getting piled on by mobs. When I (as a healer) have to put unnecessary amounts of effort into keeping a single party member alive, it comes at the expense of the other party members. You are not a help, you are a hinderance

DLM

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

If you don't have taunt I don't give a damn what your numbers are you are a problem for me as a healer. Trash mobs don't ask your parse numbers before they attack me.

Except that trash mobs is DPS job. Tanks are not going to taunt every single one of them...

etchedpixels

DLM wrote: »

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

If you don't have taunt I don't give a damn what your numbers are you are a problem for me as a healer. Trash mobs don't ask your parse numbers before they attack me.

Except that trash mobs is DPS job. Tanks are not going to taunt every single one of them...

Depends on the tank and situation. If I am taking low levels through I'll often taunt the lot. Likewise for some dungeon speedrunning it's much easier to pull *all* the trash into one room, debuff, hit a shield and AoE taunt the lot and let the DPS obliterate it.

It's situational - there are even some cases like Direfrost where for a week group on the end boss you taunt the trash as the boss is untauntable.

The more you can stack stuff on the tank (taunted or otherwise) the quicker it all dies.

Ragnarok0130

Carcamongus wrote: »

To lighten the mood a bit, I'll add the funny story of having once grouped with a fake DPS.... as in tank who queued as DPS and actually tanked.

@Carcamongus I suspect the tank who queued as DPS in your story was running group content for a guild as DPS and forgot to change his role the next day. I'm a healer 99.9% of the time and this happened to me once. I was DPS in a guild Rockgrove trial the night before, queued up for RND the next day and forgot I was slotted as a DPS but currently running my healer spec and gear. Had to pause the fight in between trash pulls, pop the armory assistant and put my DPS spec and gear back on in the dungeon once I saw the healer icon over another player's head and he was actually healing.

f047ys3v3n

Daggerfell0929 wrote: »

I am not a top 1% parser, but I can parse a solid 90k. And to be honest most people who play this game can't even parse 50k+. If I were to honestly tank with the group doing 15k damage altogether then dungeons would take FOREVER. When I fake tank, I end up doing like 70-80% of the group's damage and we finish the dungeon in under 10 minutes. If anything, I am doing the other people in the group a favor. I suggest Random normal dungeons 4 people can queue up regardless of role because they are so easy anyway.

Nope, you fake tank because the que is faster than it would be if you qued as a dps..

What you are talking about in your post is why you don't real tank. Because you don't want to sit there holding your mouse while the fake dps you usually get in a random normal smack randomly at the keyboard with their potato fingers and stand in red stuff.

For what it is worth, I agree. People being carried should say thank you and quit whining. They are not contributing anything and should be grateful for the people who are. If they want a real tank they can que as one lol.

chrisub17_ESO104

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Good DPS with a taunt = Great random normal tank

Anyone in tank role who refuses to slot a taunt = Instant kick

No amount of DPS you contribute is going to make up for the boss running all over the place and killing group members that did not sign up for the tank role.

So much this. I would add being able to hold things still.

Unfortunately a lot of fake tanks fail at basic logic. If you are dancing around or otherwise moving mobs all over, especially bosses, you are likely negating a ton of aoe group dps. You are absolutely causing more damage to hit the group, which is also negating even more dps.

So a bad fake tank is lowering group efficiency by quite a bit.

And if they fail at that, they will likely find other stupid stuff to do also. Like skipping content but doing it poorly.

If you think dps alone is enough you don' know the game as well as you think you do, and you need to stop queueing as a fake tank until you do.

barney2525

hehehe. trying to justify their actions.

who are they trying to convince ? There Readers or Themselves ?

OBJnoob

I think OP is catching too much grief over this. If you read the whole thread it seems like he’s a fairly competent tank, whether he calls himself real or not. He’s not guilty of half the crap being griped about here.

Some of you might recall me from other threads like this… I admit to fake tanking and am not ashamed. I only use the term “fake tanking” because I heard it called that here. I also taunt, hold the boss still, and rarely ever die. In medium armor with a bow and 2h sometimes, wearing impen gear sometimes.

I just don’t see the problem. People want to make it into a mental illness that people don’t want to wait, lol. It’s a game. Furthermore, people want to shame us for choosing to play quickly through a dungeon we so choose. Are we being convinced that the other 3 peoples desires matter too?? Or that our own don’t. If you desire to read every bookshelf and dialogue box you go right ahead. I don’t have to wait for you. That’s not fair that’s just the shoe being on the other foot. OF COURSE that’s what you want. Welcome to being… me.

Qued for a random the other day with my no proc pvp bow sorc. Got scalecaller peak… one of my favorites honestly, cuz I don’t pve much these days but the dungeons I did back in the day I still remember the mechanics for and I enjoy the ‘harder’ ones. The boss with the two big ogres or whatever they are? My team didn’t know about hiding behind the large icicles so they were dying constantly I’m just 1v1ing the one boss on the outside, occasionally range taunting the other one. You know what… we did wipe once but it wasn’t my fault it was everyone’s fault we let ourselves get turned to stone nobody was hitting the synergies, pretty sure I told them what to do and we got it the next time. They might’ve been a little low cp… doesn’t really matter. Anyway, after MELTING the last boss and barely taking a scratch of damage doing it, I said gg to the group and one of them said ‘nice tanking.’

chrisub17_ESO104 wrote: »

If you think dps alone is enough you don' know the game as well as you think you do, and you need to stop queueing as a fake tank until you do.

Yes you need to have a tank built for tanking for the very hard stuff. And a healer built for healing. But the vast majority of content, including some of the very hard stuff, is getting done faster and faster every day. If damage isn’t clearly the MOST important thing then why do healers and tanks wear unselfish sets to boost dps for the dps?????? Which says two things: damage is most important AND tanks don’t have to wear tanky (selfish) gear to do their job.

Nobody is talking about fake tanking trials y’all need to put your pitchforks away. It’s easy so we do what we want. If you don’t agree it’s easy then 1) practice more, 2) join a guild that organize pve content. The rest of us pugs are here to kick butt and collect sky shards.

spartaxoxo

There's no excuse for not slotting a taunt. It's selfish and without basic empathy for your teammates. Anyone who slots a taunt and holds the bosses is fine. Nobody should expect more than the bare minimum for a random.

Carcamongus

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

Carcamongus wrote: »

To lighten the mood a bit, I'll add the funny story of having once grouped with a fake DPS.... as in tank who queued as DPS and actually tanked.

@Carcamongus I suspect the tank who queued as DPS in your story was running group content for a guild as DPS and forgot to change his role the next day. I'm a healer 99.9% of the time and this happened to me once. I was DPS in a guild Rockgrove trial the night before, queued up for RND the next day and forgot I was slotted as a DPS but currently running my healer spec and gear. Had to pause the fight in between trash pulls, pop the armory assistant and put my DPS spec and gear back on in the dungeon once I saw the healer icon over another player's head and he was actually healing.

The player was a PVPer (emperor's regalia and all) who was new to dungeons.

EnerG

Why put yourself on blast like this? I don't care what the content is, if you parse 90k, then PLEASE SOLO do8nt ruin 3 other peoples experience cause you think you8re sooooo important that you can skip over every other dps in que. Shamefull.

Troodon80

OBJnoob wrote: »

I think OP is catching too much grief over this. If you read the whole thread it seems like he’s a fairly competent tank, whether he calls himself real or not. He’s not guilty of half the crap being griped about here.

I think most people in the topic have actually been quite reasonable. The general message from just about everyone in this thread is to slot a taunt, hold aggro, and we're all good. If you can bring big DPS while doing that, go right ahead.

No one knows whether the person is innocent or guilty, and it's honestly not important either way. This isn't a witch hunt. This isn't the Inquisition.

I'm also not sure why one needs to read the whole thread -- the original poster hasn't said anything since the original post. I'm unsure how anyone could judge competency based on the limited details we have in the first post.

OBJnoob wrote: »

Are we being convinced that the other 3 peoples desires matter too?? Or that our own don’t.

All four player's desires matter. But not one more than another. Common courtesy and decency would dictate that if you agree to group up with three other people, and that those three other people want to do something specific (e.g. kill the side boss in a dungeon, do the quest, etc.) and you are the odd one out, then it is on you to fall in line. Needs of the many. Democracy. All that jazz. Anything else, such as running off and leaving the other three in the dust, is, by definition, purely selfish. It's not "shoe is on the other foot." It's called courtesy. If one person in the group says they want to do the quest, but two others say they don't have the time for it, the same thing applies. You can do the quest next time.

If you want to solo a dungeon you are free to do so without using the group finder.

Though I will say I have no objection to someone fake tanking as long as they slot a taunt / use Stampede with Tormentor. Which is the point most people are saying in this topic, but which the original poster has not said anything about. The original post comes across more as feeble justification, that by virtue of doing big DEEPS that they were doing those other poor noobs a favour. Somewhat condescending.

Acetriad

I fake dps all the time. I go in planning to at least secondary heal, and probably tank too. That takes away from my dps, but it's simple survival at this point. Really, everyone should go into a dungeon with the wrong identifier, that is sure to fix things.

Redguards_Revenge

Daggerfell0929 wrote: »

I am not a top 1% parser, but I can parse a solid 90k. And to be honest most people who play this game can't even parse 50k+. If I were to honestly tank with the group doing 15k damage altogether then dungeons would take FOREVER. When I fake tank, I end up doing like 70-80% of the group's damage and we finish the dungeon in under 10 minutes. If anything, I am doing the other people in the group a favor. I suggest Random normal dungeons 4 people can queue up regardless of role because they are so easy anyway.

I've been saying this for years. I call it DPSO. 3DPS and a flex healer is the best. If possible 4DPS. DPS is king in this game.

Jazraena

Redguards_Revenge wrote: »

Daggerfell0929 wrote: »

I am not a top 1% parser, but I can parse a solid 90k. And to be honest most people who play this game can't even parse 50k+. If I were to honestly tank with the group doing 15k damage altogether then dungeons would take FOREVER. When I fake tank, I end up doing like 70-80% of the group's damage and we finish the dungeon in under 10 minutes. If anything, I am doing the other people in the group a favor. I suggest Random normal dungeons 4 people can queue up regardless of role because they are so easy anyway.

I've been saying this for years. I call it DPSO. 3DPS and a flex healer is the best. If possible 4DPS. DPS is king in this game.

And in your premade party, that's fair game.

In a pug, bring a taunt when you list as a tank. That's what you sign up for.

Arunei

Something tells me OP [snip] didn't get the reaction they expected, and that's why we haven't seen them post since then.

Either way, to people trying to excuse this behavior, you're being selfish, end of story. It's not a matter of whose time is more important than whose, it's a simple matter of courtesy. And yes, you are very much claiming your time is more important by cutting the queue. But if you're going to do that then you need to do at least the bare minimum of the role, which is taunt stuff and keep the boss held in one place.

If you fake tank and don't bring that minimum requirement you are being selfish and saying the other people in your group don't matter. That's it, you don't get to argue that you're doing people a favor. You aren't. You're forcing people to either go at your pace or you're forcing them to skip content they might want to do (such as the quest or side bosses) or you're forcing them to deal with adds that you leave behind when you rush rush rush to each boss without caring what's happening to the rest of your group.

That's not doing anyone a favor. That's not "carrying" your group. That's giving them the middle finger and telling them to screw off because who cares about anyone else's wants or needs in the group? You're clearly the only one who matters.

If you want to earn the rewards of group play, then you agree to consider your group mates. They aren't there to be used just so you can skip the queue and then rush through the dungeon in five minutes because you want to dash straight to the last boss. If you're going to skip the queue then do the actual considerate thing and slot a tank. It's the least you can do for the people with you. That's doing your group a favor; leaving them behind because you have L33T DPS is rude and asinine, especially when you call that behavior "carrying".

[edited for baiting]

Carcamongus

I don't need to slot a taunt when doing solo content and, naturally, my setup is more geared for damage in that context. One could say I'm a fake DPS, but that doesn't harm anyone anyway. Sometimes I need to run a dungeon real quick, for example to complete a daily endeavor, and I don't want to put on my trial gear for FG1.... so I just tweak my build to be slightly sturdier and capable of taunting. Thinking about it, I'm wondering if that means I'm a tank who's fake-tanking or just a tank pretending to be a DPS pretending to be a tank. Maybe both?

Drammanoth

Carcamongus wrote: »

I don't need to slot a taunt when doing solo content (...) Sometimes I need to run a dungeon real quick, for example to complete a daily endeavor (...)

If you do that solo, neither classifications matter.

If someone does this WITH (keyword) a group, this is extremely rude.

AdamLAD

I don't even PvE. But I see 1000CP's dying to Normal Dungeon Mobs, and I don't even mean the harder Dungeons. I literally mean Fungal Grotto 1. Theres seriously something wrong in terms of educating the community on how things work. I'm even betting some people don't even know theres "Roles" you choose as a setting. They just randomly que up to complete stuff without knowing. There will ALWAYS be a big number of players who are extremely casual and can't do much at all besides craft and roleplay, simply due to the fact its an Elder Scrolls Game, which all its previous entries are literally based on role-playing. And as a huge fan of TES, this game can feed that urge until the next main entry is released.

Drammanoth

AdamLAD wrote: »

(...). There will ALWAYS be a big number of players who are extremely casual and can't do much at all besides craft and roleplay, simply due to the fact its an Elder Scrolls Game, which all its previous entries are literally based on role-playing(...).

Those 'casuals' that you descibed are the so called toxic casuals - "I play the way I want because I can, and noone will tell me how to play, you toxic elitist!"

Check Nefas' vid on those individuals suffering from entitlementitis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQDtlizTdL8

Nord_Raseri

We had a fake tank in a vet dungeon the other day. DW/bow 0 taunt. They got to first boss before us and immediately started running around like a headless chicken, the boss following after them. They died. we left them dead. Kicked them after first boss, I slotted inner fire and face tanked the rest of the dungeon. 3 of us did Hm with no issues after that. Would have been a no-death run if the fake tank didn't get spanked on first boss. If you're going to queue as tank, please slot a taunt.

JanTanhide

I'm with the majority here: I don't like Fake Tanks, Fake Healers or Fake DPS. When you fake a role as a Healer or a Tank you are jumping the queue. To me, that's cheating. Running through a dungeon at light speed isn't fun for the majority of players. Many that are PUGGING are new players that have quests or want to experience the dungeon's story line. Can't do that when someone plows through the dungeon as quickly as possible leaving the lowbies to deal with mobs that pile on them.

On a side note of this topic, I was running a random normal a few days ago on one of my Healers. We ended up in Direfrost Keep. Very easy dungeon especially in Normal. No one died and everyone was above CP 160. My Healer was just over CP 600. Definitely had a Fake Tank thrashing through the dungeon and we had one player with the quest.

Just before the Ice boss, one person in the group writes in chat we have a Fake Tank and a Fake Healer. Really? So I pop four heals in a row and write I am not a Fake Healer. I had been using Combat Prayer and Radiating Regen the entire run and no one died. If you are above CP 160 and rely on a Healer to keep you alive in a PUG normal non DLC dungeon I feel sorry for you.

OBJnoob

JanTanhide wrote: »

I'm with the majority here: I don't like Fake Tanks, Fake Healers or Fake DPS.


Just before the Ice boss, one person in the group writes in chat we have a Fake Tank and a Fake Healer. Really? So I pop four heals in a row and write I am not a Fake Healer. I had been using Combat Prayer and Radiating Regen the entire run and no one died. If you are above CP 160 and rely on a Healer to keep you alive in a PUG normal non DLC dungeon I feel sorry for you.

Soooo… it’s annoying when people rely on the healer but you agree with the majority that the tank needs to do A, B, and C at minimum. Mmmmmmmmmk.

imno007b14_ESO

I don't do it myself, but I don't mind really care if others do it for normal dungeons, since most of them are so easy. Just make sure you have some kind of taunt when you're doing it, because I get annoyed when the "tank" is running through mobs and I end up having to bounce all over the place to clean them up.

Also, kind of goes without saying, but if you're a lower CP level and unfamiliar with the dungeons, I really don't encourage this kind of behavior, since you're more than likely going to get people killed a lot.

blackpool9

If it's normal, and you taunt the boss, then AFAIAC you aren't fake tanking and I'm fine with whatever else you are doing. If I can't get through a rotation because I'm running from the boss, then you are a fake tank and I'll vote to kick you.

Frankly, I've got a bigger problem with l33t DPS running through the dungeon to the final boss and leaving the rest of the party to die to swarms of aggro-ed mobs, with no thought to anyone who may want to do the quest or is farming equipment.

vivisectvib16_ESO

ZOS should just remove role requirements from the random normal queue.

Let people queue as any role, no matter the make-up, but apply a group buff based on what's missing.

Ex: no healer? Group gets a healing buff. No tank? Defense buff. Etc. DCUO does this and I thought that it worked great before I moved on from that game.

oldbobdude

What_In_Tarnation wrote: »

Doesn't matter, just slot a taunt. After 1st boss and check your group dps. If your dps is higher than other 2 dps combined. Then these 2 dps are fake dps, since they're all fake dps, then you can officially become fake tank without taunt.

Well, you know the low dps DD’s are at least playing the role they signed up for. Maybe not well but THAT is part of the learning experience. Maybe, just maybe if they had a tank buffing them and debuffing the boss their dps would be better. You’ll never know because you’re too busy being a DD to perform the tank role.

ANGEL_BtVS

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Whenever I want to skip queue as a DPS I queue as a tank and slap on a taunt and maybe an ice staff on my regular setup. Really helps to slot Chains too for trash mobs.

Look, if you're going to "fake" tank, you literally just need to do the bare minimum tanking requirements (taunt bosses and dangerous enemies and stay alive) and nobody would complain. I get people in my queues saying, "Thank god, finally a real tank!" And I'm just sitting there with my 20k health bar and 70% group DPS

WinterHeart626

Scaletho wrote: »

[snip]

It depends on how you view it.
Many respondents here are indignant with the OPs “excuse”.
Even I’m disgusted at the OP, I’ve jumped lines as “fake tank” yet I still run the role with taunt.
I’ve had my partner jump on as “fake heals” yet they slot some heal skills so as to keep the team topped up.
Yeah, waiting in line blows, but if you sign for a role, at least make an effort to do that role……..

If you’re calling people obnoxious and condescending for that? Well, I’m afraid we are going to agree to disagree.

We are Indignant.

[edited to remove quote]