Accounts being suspended over appropriate names

v_sorakus

I have seen players with homophobic/racist/sexist names being able to just change their names for free after a warning from Support, but using a location/item set/NPC in your ign is a big enough reason to be permabanned? Make it make sense please.

tyran404_ESO

Jazraena wrote: »

You don't seem to realize how many people this would affect.

ZOS isn't going to randomly ban thousands for the lolz.

Nope they will just ban anyone with a lore friendly name that is gets reported by lol random pvper with a grudge and the report button. Perma-banning for a name infraction like this only sets a dangerous precedent that ZoS's undoubtingly outsourced customer service reps will turn to in future scenarios. Its an overkill measure, a forced named change would have sufficed ESPECIALLY for a first offense. Especially since the name is confirmed to have been many years old at this point.

brylars

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

"Technically against the TOS" is not an acceptable explanation for permanently banning anyone. Is it or is it not against the TOS. There is no middle ground. It makes the decision sound like it is based on the whims of the mods involved. TOS are very straight forward. I have already seen one banned account and none of the names are in violation of what they were accused of in terms of the TOS section quoted.

Do you realize that there are more than PvP and PvE players in this game? RPers spend ALOT of money in ESO too. This sounds like it is directed towards RPers who use lore friendly names.

brylars

JN_Slevin wrote: »

At this point what names are even allowed?

I understand if its copyright protected by other companies. But i have no idea anymore. Do i have to pay 18 character name changes now on the off chance i get a grumpy support employee?

There must be some protection through the Fair Use Act since no one is gaining anything from the use of a "lore friendly" name at the expense of ZOS or Bethesda. But we all agreed to the TOS, so we can wait for our ban letter and appeal it or change the names now.

Tandor

They aren't going to permaban someone for a first-time name violation arising from lore. There's more to this than people either know or are letting on about. For example, a permaban would be appropriate if someone was told more than once to change their name and then used name change tokens to keep changing it back again, or repeatedly changed it to an equally unacceptable name. Unless it's something really severe, permabans are for pretty serious offences or lesser ones where there is a long disciplinary history on the account.

Pwoo

Well, this is interesting. I don't want to snitch on myself but one of my characters bears the first name of a "major" NPC from a chapter that came out 2 years after I named the character. Many of my characters have short lore-friendly names (no surnames) and I never had issues with any of them. I really do hope there is more to the story, because now I can't help but feel a bit worried.

vibeborn

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

Does that include names which were inspired by real life name or cultures that ZOS does NOT own the rights to?

F.x. Vivek (which looks like Vivec) is an Indian name, if someone named themselves Vivek, would they be obliged to a name change?

Other versions of Viveka (I'm thinking of captain Viveka here) is a Swedish version of a German/Frisian name. If I decided for the fun of it to use my real name for a character, would I be prompted to change it?

Would naming a character the Old Norse Jórunnr (and making it female even, because apparantly it's a female name) be too close to the Pact's leader?


As for the names ZOS DOES own the rights to, I mean nobody wants to confuse players by naming themselves directly after a major character, but I too don't see how anybody can be confused whether Bobby the 3rd of house Hlaalu, whose name tag is blue and who jogs instead of walks, and that you don't collide with. I just think it's fun to guess how exactly Bobby the 3rd is a member of house Hlaalu

DMuehlhausen

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

With due respect, that is quite silly. Some people want to roleplay a character in the Elder Scrolls universe, that's why they bought a... Elder Scrolls roleplaying game.

With due respect it's in their ToS

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

Well, this is terrifying! Imagine banning someone PERMANENTLY for naming their characters in honour of references to a game they love so much that they know these references to begin with? Why is it even possible to choose lore names at character creation if this is the way of it? Outrageous! I only pray this is some sort of mistake. EDIT: One of the names in the banned person's roster wasn't even a real npc name. I looked it up on the internet.

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

Does that mean names with nuances from the originals as well?

BloodMagicLord

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

With due respect, that is quite silly. Some people want to roleplay a character in the Elder Scrolls universe, that's why they bought a... Elder Scrolls roleplaying game.

With due respect it's in their ToS

Yeah, and I'm criticizing the ToS.

What a complete waste of a forum message.

Syldras

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Dunmer have the Great Houses which likely has thousands of members who use those names.

Only the "main family" carries the name Telvanni, Redoran or Dres (to name a few examples), though. A Great House also includes several others families with different surnames (the Dreloth family, for example, is a family within House Dres). So the people who are really named Hlaalu or Dres won't be thousands - but considering how big families could get, probably dozens. Which is still enough, in my opinion, to justify roleplaying someone with that name.

Gnesnig

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

This is a very suggestive answer I think you should clarify. It reads as though the technicality was used to ban the person, because other offenses could not be proven.

Especially since a forced name change for such a technicality, would be more appropriate punishment for the offense.

SantieClaws

This one asks only this.

How can we belong in this world, be part of this world, if we do not bear a name of this world?

The ideal would be to blend in seemlessly with the scripted ones no? Not to stand apart from them.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

rootkitronin

Amottica wrote: »

Actually, it makes sense. The character names are likely copy-write protected. I’ve seen major MMORPGs force name changes because a player chose a copyright protected name.

But again, there is likely more to the story.

How does it make sense exactly? And why do we care what other MMORPGs are doing when we're talking very specifically about ESO and ZOS?

I'm no legal expert, but from what I understand, character names in fiction are not protected by copyright - the characters themselves are, but not the names.

Harry Potter the gym teacher wouldn't be a copyright violation on its own, but Harry Potter the magical gym teacher most likely would be because it's now significantly closer to resembling Harry Potter the wizard.

How this applies to things like house names in ESO, such as Telvanni (which is much more generic than a specific individual character name), I don't know - but it seems weird that ZOS would be concerned about people using generic lore-based names within their own IP, especially if those names didn't violate any other policy (misleading, vulgar, etc.).

Amottica

jaws343 wrote: »

CyberOnEso wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

The code of conduct states

You will not post, transmit, promote or distribute any dynamic or static user-created or custom content which is not wholly owned by the account owner.

Any use of material protected by intellectual property rights that is not wholly owned by the account owner is a violation of the Agreement, including the Code of Conduct.

Is me posting the name "Queen Ayrenn" on the forums against the TOS?

Am I allowed to say "Perfected Bahsei's Mania is a good item set"? Or is that in breach of the code of conduct?

Is this website in violation of the Code of Conduct https://eso-hub.com/en/sets/law-of-julianos? It distrubutes the name of an in- game item set. Nearly all in- game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc. are posted on fan sites, are those sites in breach of your code of conduct?

There's a pretty clear difference in discussion about the name/npc and presenting yourself as such.

Just like discussing a politician in real life is perfectly fine, but posing as them is fraud.

I agree. There is a very large difference between discussing an aspect of the game, such as Queen Ayreen or a set bonus from the game, and essentially acting as though one is taking possession of something from the game which is exactly what is happening when naming a character directly after an NPC in the game.

I have seen other games force name changes when they named their character after an NPC in the game or a copyrighted character from someone else's IP. As for the ban, I expect there is more to the story that we are not aware of.

DarkHero1989

This is the silliest of rules... What if someone really likes a set, or a NPC name????? Unfair for banning someone for such a thing. You guys should re-evaluate certain rules, especially when someone is a role-player. How about being more specific on this ban than being coy, and just sharing your suspending people because of this.

Sarannah

Yeah, we're going to need specific clarification on what names are allowed and what names aren't allowed... especially if a wrong name can result in a friggin account ban! Basically every naming example mentioned in this thread should get a lookthrough and mention if it is allowed or not.

Edit: And we also need to know what happens if we already have a name, and in future expansions or DLCs that name is suddenly a major character, what then?

SammyKhajit

Hope we get some further clarifications, otherwise this one may as well name or rename his characters to random numbers.

Destai

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

I have toons with "Tyravel" and "Sil" in their names, which are lore names, so now I'm worried I'll eventually get banned and expected to pay for a name change because of this pedantry.

While ZOS and namechange bans are inconsistent as hell (some players I know have simply been forced to change names, others have gotten a suspension at the same time), the name change is free. If they rename your account, you can change that at any time from your account page. If they rename a character, they'll make it like "23Tyravel", which isn't a valid name (you can't include numbers normally) and the game prompts you to rename it when you next try to log in.

It blows my mind that a suspension is involved for these at all. You'd think they suspend only after they haven't renamed their character within some window of time.

The3sFinest

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

What about just using last names that our characters share with very minor NPCs? In the past, Zos would just send a notification/token that forces you to change the character name. Why are you not doing that instead, especially for first time offenders, rather than outright banning?

Amottica

Destai wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

I have toons with "Tyravel" and "Sil" in their names, which are lore names, so now I'm worried I'll eventually get banned and expected to pay for a name change because of this pedantry.

While ZOS and namechange bans are inconsistent as hell (some players I know have simply been forced to change names, others have gotten a suspension at the same time), the name change is free. If they rename your account, you can change that at any time from your account page. If they rename a character, they'll make it like "23Tyravel", which isn't a valid name (you can't include numbers normally) and the game prompts you to rename it when you next try to log in.

It blows my mind that a suspension is involved for these at all. You'd think they suspend only after they haven't renamed their character within some window of time.

@Destai

There was a thread last year. Someone complained they got a bag due to their name and was complaining about how unfair it was. It turned out they had been forced to change their name and chose a name that was phonetically identical.

They literally ignored the reason they were forced to change their name which is why harsher action was taken. Heck, Gina even said they can't comment on the specifics of the case here which in a roundabout manner does suggest there is more to the story than we are getting here.

Vaoh

An offense should require a name change. Furthermore it shouldn’t even be an offense to use a lore-appropriate name, it’s not as if we’re trying to get around word filters here....

Well anyway, time to tell people in zone about this.I can go in any zone rn and get a huge portion of people banned based on Gina’s reply.

Obviously not going to lol but now that they actually made that comment, someone out there is going to be reporting a lot of names.

Ragnarok0130

virtus753 wrote: »

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

My best guess is that ZOS considers names from the ES IP to be covered by this:

“Names or material protected by copyright, trademark or other intellectual property rights cannot be used at any time except by the rightsholder. Rights ownership must be established prior to use on any ZeniMax Media, Inc. site or service. Any use of material protected by intellectual property rights that is not wholly owned by the account owner is a violation of the Agreement, including the Code of Conduct.”

They have clarified sometimes in other threads when there have been questions about how to understand the ToS/CoC. Perhaps they could consider doing so here.

As one who frequently deals with similar matters in the real world, in my reading of the limited information in this thread, the naming of one's character with a lore friendly name doesn't infringe on ZoS' IP as the usage in question is actually inside of ZoS' IP (the game) and not outside such as naming one's for profit YT channel after ZoS' IP. This has to be a bot or a poorly trained overzealous new employee and will likely be overturned.

That is not what the CoC says tho. It says names from IPs may only be used by the rightsholder. That is, not us.

They don’t permaban just for one use of one otherwise inoffensive lore name anyhow, so I think it’s hardly fair to jump to the conclusion this was overzealous. We’re missing too many details we will never know.

To play devil's advocate did we not purchase a limited rights usage license for the software containing the IP and to use the IP in game when we purchased the game? Saying we can't use the in game name Hlaalu/Dress etc in game would be bonkers for a franchise that is from a genre called a "Role playing Game" .

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

@ZOS_GinaBruno perhaps if ZoS Can directly address the thread's main question stemming from this incident on the use of lore friendly names from houses etc it would allay many peoples' fears/questions on the matter without directly commenting on the account's infraction.

emilyhyoyeon

IMO the only time a name should result in a ban is if the name is a racial slur or something. And as a couple others already mentioned, I'm also worried about certain roleplay style names that aren't allowed, like ones that include location names.

Syldras

vibeborn wrote: »

As for the names ZOS DOES own the rights to, I mean nobody wants to confuse players by naming themselves directly after a major character, but I too don't see how anybody can be confused whether Bobby the 3rd of house Hlaalu, whose name tag is blue and who jogs instead of walks, and that you don't collide with. I just think it's fun to guess how exactly Bobby the 3rd is a member of house Hlaalu

Even if someone names their character "Queen Ayrenn the Second" - what impact would it have, as the character obviously can't be interacted with like you do with npcs? Although I could understand these kind of names of really important npcs being forbidden - that would justify a name change. A permaban still seems very harsh.

DLM

Corporation gotta corporate.

BenevolentBowd

In an other MMORPG, I was notified once that a character name wasn't compliant with their ToS. They just asked me for a new name and changed it for me. Done.

In the end, I stopped playing that game because it was my main character and I did a lot of research to find a respectful North American indigenous name that translated as "spirit bear" but unfortunately, it looked a lot like l33tspeak...

redspecter23

Jazraena wrote: »

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

Communication between ZOS and the affected is something else, but we're not privy to that here or the specific reasoning.

However, the sheer amount of people using Lore Friendly names, such as every roleplayer ever, does suggest there is more to it than just having Telvanni in the name.

Is it though? Or are we all just a report away from having or names changed or worse?

We need to know where the line is because when things like this happen we will start to fear our names are not allowed. @thejadefalcon and @SainguinKrist bought up the major points.

People of Tamriel are shown to name their children after gods, saints, heroes etc. Dunmer have the Great Houses which likely has thousands of members who use those names. Redguards often uses prefixes from where they come from in their names. Then we have things like sanguine and nocturnal. Those are two english words, who also happen to be names of Daedric Princes.

Where is the line?

You don't seem to realize how many people this would affect.

ZOS isn't going to randomly ban thousands for the lolz.

Then why ban even one?

Destai

Amottica wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

I have toons with "Tyravel" and "Sil" in their names, which are lore names, so now I'm worried I'll eventually get banned and expected to pay for a name change because of this pedantry.

While ZOS and namechange bans are inconsistent as hell (some players I know have simply been forced to change names, others have gotten a suspension at the same time), the name change is free. If they rename your account, you can change that at any time from your account page. If they rename a character, they'll make it like "23Tyravel", which isn't a valid name (you can't include numbers normally) and the game prompts you to rename it when you next try to log in.

It blows my mind that a suspension is involved for these at all. You'd think they suspend only after they haven't renamed their character within some window of time.

@Destai

There was a thread last year. Someone complained they got a bag due to their name and was complaining about how unfair it was. It turned out they had been forced to change their name and chose a name that was phonetically identical.

They literally ignored the reason they were forced to change their name which is why harsher action was taken. Heck, Gina even said they can't comment on the specifics of the case here which in a roundabout manner does suggest there is more to the story than we are getting here.

That's interesting - do you have a link to the thread?