Accounts being suspended over appropriate names

Sallymen

This person had their names for years at this point. The permanent suspension of this person's account is silly. Especially when not given a chance to change it.

Destai

thejadefalcon wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

Obviously copying major NPCs is reasonable, I don't want a thousand Abnur Tharns or Martin Septims running around. But even ignoring the obvious hope that you don't take action against names already in play when introducing a new character (for example, if someone made a Lady Arabelle before you'd introduced her, they would be grandfathered in and allowed to keep it), can you clarify some more about your rules?

1. There are 2 Imperial women in Oblivion called Alessia. While Alessia is a major figure in lore, it is understandable that, as in the real world with names like Mary, Jesus, Muhammad, their names will be copied by others millennia later. Are players naming their character Alessia in violation of TOS?
2. Some races often put great emphasis on their family names. Just as examples, there are 31 Hlaalu (Dunmer) in ESO alone, there are 12 Geric (Breton), 14 Rilis (Altmer), 8 Snowpeak (Nord). Are these a violation of TOS if a player uses one of these family names?
3. Redguards, in particular, often use locations as part of their name. An example are the 9 X al-Bergama in ESO. As Bergama is a location, is this a violation of TOS?

I understand that the TOS is there for a reason, but your initial reply has not helped the situation. It would be extremely comforting to have a concrete "yes" or "no" about where you enforce the spirit of the TOS, not the letter of it. Are our lore-abiding character names just one report by a salty player away from getting us banned?

I have toons with "Tyravel" and "Sil" in their names, which are lore names, so now I'm worried I'll eventually get banned and expected to pay for a name change because of this pedantry.

Sallymen

This is the clarification for names that are allowed that we need. Based on the Code of Conduct, this person was banned for a name they had. They were not impersonating an ingame NPC.

seps42

What about all the guilds that reference in game stuff? Will they be dismantled/banned also?

tyran404_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

Seen the ticket for the ban in which no where in the ban ticket was section 6.1 mentioned. And shouldn't this be a forced name change instead of a PERMANENT BAN? Why is the FIRST resort to literally ban FOREVER a name that makes reference to a raid? Isn't that heavy handed? I'm now AFRAID that my lore-friendly characters i've had for years will suddenly get me banned one day if you all decide to add an NPC to one of your DLCs that shares a name.

redspecter23

I think this is a situation where the official clarification hasn't really helped the issue, but perhaps only made it worse. While understandable that ZOS should have full control over their IP within the game, even as far as player names are concerned, the issue is how the punishment fits the "crime" in this situation and also the potential for equal and fair similar rulings against other players later.

What we know is that a player got permabanned for a naming violation. The official statement was basically along the lines of, yes, that is technically something ZOS can do.

There may be other details about this case, but in the absence of those details players are left to wonder if their names are safe. Could they also be permabanned? Are they also in violation of those other unknown details? How are they to know?

If there were other details that led to this particular situation, a permaban for a non offensive, lore friendly name, we as players don't have any right to that information but do you know who does? The player that got banned. In the correspondence with them, it should be clearly outlined what they did that earned them a permanent ban. If it wasn't simply the name but there are other "details", that player most definitely deserves to know, even if the general public can't be told by ZOS.

Jazraena

Again, people, relax. ESO has a vibrant RP Community using lore-friendly names, and none of us are getting banned over it.

There is more to this case than just naming a character Telvanni Nelvyna Telvayn or somesuch.

ElvenOverlord

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

That is....insightful...

redspecter23

Jazraena wrote: »

Again, people, relax. ESO has a vibrant RP Community using lore-friendly names, and none of us are getting banned over it.

There is more to this case than just naming a character Telvanni Nelvyna Telvayn or somesuch.

But without knowing what the "more" is, how do we know if we are in violation?

Abelon

We don't know what the player's name is and we don't know if they had previously done something that warranted a ban. I mean a few people here are convinced the player did nothing wrong, but it's not like the rest of us have proof of that.

If they named themselves after a character and had previous warnings then that's all there is to the story. Don't see a reason to panic over lore-friendly names.

thejadefalcon

Destai wrote: »

I have toons with "Tyravel" and "Sil" in their names, which are lore names, so now I'm worried I'll eventually get banned and expected to pay for a name change because of this pedantry.

While ZOS and namechange bans are inconsistent as hell (some players I know have simply been forced to change names, others have gotten a suspension at the same time), the name change is free. If they rename your account, you can change that at any time from your account page. If they rename a character, they'll make it like "23Tyravel", which isn't a valid name (you can't include numbers normally) and the game prompts you to rename it when you next try to log in.

Jazraena

By having ZOS clarify here or telling you directly. They won't ban you over a name.

ElvenOverlord

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

Please define "major."
I mean, obviously, Titanborn, Sahan, Tharn, and names of similar importance to the lore are major, but how far does "major" extend?
Are obscure NPC names from older TES games safe?

And would using one be bannable on the first offense, or would you just force a name change?
An outright ban for nothing more than a non-offensive name seems extreme.

I do have a Redguard character named 'Razei Sahan' I haven't had any problems with the name. Hopefully I won't.

jaws343

redspecter23 wrote: »

I think this is a situation where the official clarification hasn't really helped the issue, but perhaps only made it worse. While understandable that ZOS should have full control over their IP within the game, even as far as player names are concerned, the issue is how the punishment fits the "crime" in this situation and also the potential for equal and fair similar rulings against other players later.

What we know is that a player got permabanned for a naming violation. The official statement was basically along the lines of, yes, that is technically something ZOS can do.

There may be other details about this case, but in the absence of those details players are left to wonder if their names are safe. Could they also be permabanned? Are they also in violation of those other unknown details? How are they to know?

If there were other details that led to this particular situation, a permaban for a non offensive, lore friendly name, we as players don't have any right to that information but do you know who does? The player that got banned. In the correspondence with them, it should be clearly outlined what they did that earned them a permanent ban. If it wasn't simply the name but there are other "details", that player most definitely deserves to know, even if the general public can't be told by ZOS.

We don't actually KNOW anything.

And this is precisely why discussing moderation on the forums is not allowed. It leads to these fabricated outrage threads that panic about things that are more likely than not, not the actual issue at play here.

JN_Slevin

jaws343 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I think this is a situation where the official clarification hasn't really helped the issue, but perhaps only made it worse. While understandable that ZOS should have full control over their IP within the game, even as far as player names are concerned, the issue is how the punishment fits the "crime" in this situation and also the potential for equal and fair similar rulings against other players later.

What we know is that a player got permabanned for a naming violation. The official statement was basically along the lines of, yes, that is technically something ZOS can do.

There may be other details about this case, but in the absence of those details players are left to wonder if their names are safe. Could they also be permabanned? Are they also in violation of those other unknown details? How are they to know?

If there were other details that led to this particular situation, a permaban for a non offensive, lore friendly name, we as players don't have any right to that information but do you know who does? The player that got banned. In the correspondence with them, it should be clearly outlined what they did that earned them a permanent ban. If it wasn't simply the name but there are other "details", that player most definitely deserves to know, even if the general public can't be told by ZOS.

We don't actually KNOW anything.

And this is precisely why discussing moderation on the forums is not allowed. It leads to these fabricated outrage threads that panic about things that are more likely than not, not the actual issue at play here.

I disagree, not telling anyone why a ban was placed causes fabricated outrage threads.

Jazraena

Telling us about a specific case could be an actual violation of privacy laws and is thus a nonoption.

jaws343

JN_Slevin wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I think this is a situation where the official clarification hasn't really helped the issue, but perhaps only made it worse. While understandable that ZOS should have full control over their IP within the game, even as far as player names are concerned, the issue is how the punishment fits the "crime" in this situation and also the potential for equal and fair similar rulings against other players later.

What we know is that a player got permabanned for a naming violation. The official statement was basically along the lines of, yes, that is technically something ZOS can do.

There may be other details about this case, but in the absence of those details players are left to wonder if their names are safe. Could they also be permabanned? Are they also in violation of those other unknown details? How are they to know?

If there were other details that led to this particular situation, a permaban for a non offensive, lore friendly name, we as players don't have any right to that information but do you know who does? The player that got banned. In the correspondence with them, it should be clearly outlined what they did that earned them a permanent ban. If it wasn't simply the name but there are other "details", that player most definitely deserves to know, even if the general public can't be told by ZOS.

We don't actually KNOW anything.

And this is precisely why discussing moderation on the forums is not allowed. It leads to these fabricated outrage threads that panic about things that are more likely than not, not the actual issue at play here.

I disagree, not telling anyone why a ban was placed causes fabricated outrage threads.

But that is a conversation that should be had between the person banned and ZOS. Not some third party poster airing it out with the community on the forums.

We are potentially talking about 1 single person banned. With the number of people who have lore friendly, or even potentially game copying names, if this were a real issue this would be more widespread than 1 person out of the millions that play the game.

JN_Slevin

Jazraena wrote: »

Telling us about a specific case could be an actual violation of privacy laws and is thus a nonoption.

I didn't mean publicly. But they don't even tell you in your own private ticket why you were banned. They just throw some TOS sections in your face and then ignore you.

I don't know about you but im not a lawyer, i don't know exactly what specific TOS sections do or do not do.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Syldras wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

Locations - does that mean you couldn't roleplay an Altmer bard named "Ancalmo of Rellenthil"?

So many redguards would be screwed. No "al-" prefix.

JN_Slevin

jaws343 wrote: »

JN_Slevin wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

I think this is a situation where the official clarification hasn't really helped the issue, but perhaps only made it worse. While understandable that ZOS should have full control over their IP within the game, even as far as player names are concerned, the issue is how the punishment fits the "crime" in this situation and also the potential for equal and fair similar rulings against other players later.

What we know is that a player got permabanned for a naming violation. The official statement was basically along the lines of, yes, that is technically something ZOS can do.

There may be other details about this case, but in the absence of those details players are left to wonder if their names are safe. Could they also be permabanned? Are they also in violation of those other unknown details? How are they to know?

If there were other details that led to this particular situation, a permaban for a non offensive, lore friendly name, we as players don't have any right to that information but do you know who does? The player that got banned. In the correspondence with them, it should be clearly outlined what they did that earned them a permanent ban. If it wasn't simply the name but there are other "details", that player most definitely deserves to know, even if the general public can't be told by ZOS.

We don't actually KNOW anything.

And this is precisely why discussing moderation on the forums is not allowed. It leads to these fabricated outrage threads that panic about things that are more likely than not, not the actual issue at play here.

I disagree, not telling anyone why a ban was placed causes fabricated outrage threads.

But that is a conversation that should be had between the person banned and ZOS. Not some third party poster airing it out with the community on the forums.

We are potentially talking about 1 single person banned. With the number of people who have lore friendly, or even potentially game copying names, if this were a real issue this would be more widespread than 1 person out of the millions that play the game.

Well, yes. I agree.

But the response of Gina opened a whole can of worms which made the situation far worse than it needed to be...

I for one wasn't worried in the slightest when i first saw that thread, but after that response I'm completely lost and don't know whats allowed or not.

thejadefalcon

Jazraena wrote: »

Telling us about a specific case could be an actual violation of privacy laws and is thus a nonoption.

What possible law could this violate? Genuinely curious here. A private company removing a user from their service and saying why doesn't seem like it would come under any law.

Jazraena

Communication between ZOS and the affected is something else, but we're not privy to that here or the specific reasoning.

However, the sheer amount of people using Lore Friendly names, such as every roleplayer ever, does suggest there is more to it than just having Telvanni in the name.

Jazraena

thejadefalcon wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

Telling us about a specific case could be an actual violation of privacy laws and is thus a nonoption.

What possible law could this violate? Genuinely curious here. A private company removing a user from their service and saying why doesn't seem like it would come under any law.

Data Protection Laws.

spartaxoxo

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

When you say major npcs, does this mean extremely minor npc named are alright? For example if someone was named Eronos Ralvani, would that be considered a violation? Eronos is a background npc with no unique dialogue. He's just there to be pick pick stabbed.

Cadbury

I can imagine a scenario now where someone could easily report a player based on their name if it has "Telvanni" or "Hlaalu" in it.

SilverBride

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

But a ban for a naming "violation" that occurred years ago and wasn't caught before now? In light of how long the player had the name why weren't they given a chance to change the name and an explanation why?

I worry that this same thing will happen on the forums, too. Can someone report a post from years ago and the player who made it will get a permanent forum ban today?

People respond a lot better to conversation and explanation than to fear. And no infraction that occurred years ago should ever be bannable today. Even our courts have a statute of limitations.

Eliran

Perma ban for name?

Makes me question how long will I last till I get perma ban for something else stupid.

I already got banned once but telling someone the "f" after he trolled me for hours.

Literally sent him only 1 message = 3 days ban, but it was ok he was trolling me with 40 message and not a single ban.

Biased support.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Jazraena wrote: »

Communication between ZOS and the affected is something else, but we're not privy to that here or the specific reasoning.

However, the sheer amount of people using Lore Friendly names, such as every roleplayer ever, does suggest there is more to it than just having Telvanni in the name.

Is it though? Or are we all just a report away from having or names changed or worse?

We need to know where the line is because when things like this happen we will start to fear our names are not allowed. @thejadefalcon and @SainguinKrist bought up the major points.

People of Tamriel are shown to name their children after gods, saints, heroes etc. Dunmer have the Great Houses which likely has thousands of members who use those names. Redguards often uses prefixes from where they come from in their names. Then we have things like sanguine and nocturnal. Those are two english words, who also happen to be names of Daedric Princes.

Where is the line?

Jazraena

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

Communication between ZOS and the affected is something else, but we're not privy to that here or the specific reasoning.

However, the sheer amount of people using Lore Friendly names, such as every roleplayer ever, does suggest there is more to it than just having Telvanni in the name.

Is it though? Or are we all just a report away from having or names changed or worse?

We need to know where the line is because when things like this happen we will start to fear our names are not allowed. @thejadefalcon and @SainguinKrist bought up the major points.

People of Tamriel are shown to name their children after gods, saints, heroes etc. Dunmer have the Great Houses which likely has thousands of members who use those names. Redguards often uses prefixes from where they come from in their names. Then we have things like sanguine and nocturnal. Those are two english words, who also happen to be names of Daedric Princes.

Where is the line?

You don't seem to realize how many people this would affect.

ZOS isn't going to randomly ban thousands for the lolz.

Hamfast

On a similar note, why are the names of characters being examined?

I am not saying the names are good or bad, against TOS or not... but I suspect they are looked at because someone reported them... I also suspect there are several types of people that report names, and those people need to be checked for their motivations... if the name is blatantly wrong, that is one thing, if they are mild, that is something else...

I look at it as abuse if someone is going nuts and reporting people every time they feel even slightly offended. I also feel it is akin to abuse if folks are reporting names to gain some advantage...

Again, I am not saying the names are good or bad, just that if you are trying to make the environment less toxic, perhaps those that are making it toxic need to be taken into account.

by the way, will my account be banned because I use the name of a famous potato farmer who raised the true hero in the Lord of the Ring?