Accounts being suspended over appropriate names

Tandor

SantieClaws wrote: »

This one fears she may soon be meeting many more members of the Tharn family in Tamriel.

Most notably Gina, Geena, Jina, Jeyna, Giyna, Jeenah and Jaynah Tharn.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

I think it would be very unfair to leave out Jessica Tharn !

JoeCapricorn

mekops_ESO wrote: »

Xinihp wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I saw "Inferno Staff of Medusa" running around in my dungeon group a few months back.

already outed myself 1 or 2 pages back m8 lol

And it is absolutely harmless.

No one is going to confuse your character with the item. Everyone is going to giggle at the reference. It's a meme at this point, and there is no harm in memes.

No idea if the TOS-bot thinks the same way, but good ol' common sense having folk do.

Xinihp

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

No one is going to confuse your character with the item. Everyone is going to giggle at the reference. It's a meme at this point, and there is no harm in memes.

Speak for yourself! I don't know how long I chased that bugger trying to loot them. You know how bad my RNG is? XD

But in seriousness I agree it is pretty harmless. But the rules be the rules I guess.

brylars

SantieClaws wrote: »

This one fears she may soon be meeting many more members of the Tharn family in Tamriel.

Most notably Gina, Geena, Jina, Jeyna, Giyna, Jeenah and Jaynah Tharn.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Well, with Abnur dead ... oops ... someone has to be the "Overlord of the Nibenay."

Ratzkifal

Xinihp wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

No one is going to confuse your character with the item. Everyone is going to giggle at the reference. It's a meme at this point, and there is no harm in memes.

Speak for yourself! I don't know how long I chased that bugger trying to loot them. You know how bad my RNG is? XD

But in seriousness I agree it is pretty harmless. But the rules be the rules I guess.

Huh, I wonder if I can call myself "Petrified Oaken Loop Lead" on a speedy build and see if people start chasing after me. After all, Gina didn't mention lead names. But for real, these rules need to be made extremely explicit if they are going to ban people on technicalities, they need to make it clear where they draw the line.

mekops_ESO

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

mekops_ESO wrote: »

Xinihp wrote: »

I'm pretty sure I saw "Inferno Staff of Medusa" running around in my dungeon group a few months back.

already outed myself 1 or 2 pages back m8 lol

And it is absolutely harmless.

No one is going to confuse your character with the item. Everyone is going to giggle at the reference. It's a meme at this point, and there is no harm in memes.

No idea if the TOS-bot thinks the same way, but good ol' common sense having folk do.

Not a day goes by where someone doesnt whisper me with some indicator to that effect.

And honestly if someone out there yoinked Abnur Tharn I would be hesitant to ban what is most likely the first person to log in with a second character lol.

thejadefalcon

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, we'd like to provide some clarification here based on what was said earlier.

First, we typically don't ban an account for a bad character name if there is no other TOS history on the account. We will simply just have you change the name. Now, if there is an extensive TOS history, there may be situations where your account could be suspended or banned for a character name that breaks the TOS.

We also want to clarify that using Tamrielic house names or other lore-friendly names is fine and isn't breaking the TOS. What we don't allow is using the proper name of major characters, bosses, etc. For example, you can't name your character Abnur Tharn but you could name a character Gina Tharn.

Hope this helps, but please let us know if you would like additional clarification!

Thank you for the clarification. Would, to use the example, Abnur Someothername be acceptable though? There's got to be a few other Abnurs or Lyris's around Tamriel. And what if we make a name that then become used by a major character? Are we grandfathered in?

Ratzkifal

thejadefalcon wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, we'd like to provide some clarification here based on what was said earlier.

First, we typically don't ban an account for a bad character name if there is no other TOS history on the account. We will simply just have you change the name. Now, if there is an extensive TOS history, there may be situations where your account could be suspended or banned for a character name that breaks the TOS.

We also want to clarify that using Tamrielic house names or other lore-friendly names is fine and isn't breaking the TOS. What we don't allow is using the proper name of major characters, bosses, etc. For example, you can't name your character Abnur Tharn but you could name a character Gina Tharn.

Hope this helps, but please let us know if you would like additional clarification!

Thank you for the clarification. Would, to use the example, Abnur Someothername be acceptable though? There's got to be a few other Abnurs or Lyris's around Tamriel. And what if we make a name that then become used by a major character? Are we grandfathered in?

Well, if we wanna continue the trend of loosely interpreting the code of conduct to get all sorts of technicalities, then:

2.5 You will not attempt to, use misspellings, phonetic spellings, homonyms, word combinations, or alternative spellings to mask inappropriate material in any communication on ZeniMax Services. This includes but is not limited to text, chat, voice, in-game messaging or any other medium of communication or interaction between users.

sounds to me like this would prohibit your misspelling of the name as that too is a medium of communication/interaction between users. And we know that the name Abnur Tharn is inappropriate material.

p00tx

There are players who intentionally report people for their names if they have a what they view as a negative encounter with them in-game, and if the name "violates" one of their heavy handed rules, instaban. It's a two part issue that needs to be addressed.

1) The rules in ToS regarding naming conventions are way over the top and need to be brought in line to reflect what is supposed to be an adult audience. If you're going to have a game that references alcohol and drug use, prostitution, slavery, murder, violent crimes, non-violent crimes, demonic entities, and makes blatant sexual references, it seems ridiculous to take a stand against certain thing being "inappropriate", like farts. Yeah, they're stupid, but they're not inappropriate. Lore themed names should not be in the list either, as this is listed as a roleplaying game, so the roleplayers should be able to engage in that in a lore friendly manner.

2) Allowing players to exploit the player reporting system to exact "revenge" or troll someone is irresponsible, and there are very few actually helpful customer service avenues to seek help to rectify a situation like this. Issuing instabans for these reports is super unhelpful, and when you're dealing with paying clientele, taking punitive measures out of pocket is not a great way to retain clients.

SilverBride

Whatever the motive of the player who reported another player for their name is, it doesn't change the fact that a player created a name that violated the ToS.

That being said, I think banning is pretty harsh unless the name was hate speech or vulgar.

JD2013

@ZOS_GinaBruno

So I always give my ESO characters the surname Motierre after the very prominent lore friendly Motierre family of Bretons. Now, my name does not coincide with any of the in game NPC characters. Is this okay? I am now legit worried

Ratzkifal

SilverBride wrote: »

Whatever the motive of the player who reported another player for their name is, it doesn't change the fact that a player created a name that violated the ToS.

That being said, I think banning is pretty harsh unless the name was hate speech or vulgar.

To be fair, that's a very loose interpretation of the code of conduct because 6.1 reads

6.1 You will not post, transmit, promote or distribute any dynamic or static user-created or custom content which is not wholly owned by the account owner. Names or material protected by copyright, trademark or other intellectual property rights cannot be used at any time except by the rightsholder. Rights ownership must be established prior to use on any ZeniMax Media, Inc. site or service. Any use of material protected by intellectual property rights that is not wholly owned by the account owner is a violation of the Agreement, including the Code of Conduct.

If you want to go with the literal interpretation then TES family names are also "technically a violation" even if ZOS just clarified that they are allowing it. It certainly would also prohibit writing fan fiction too, which we have an extra forum section for...
To me 6.1 looks like it's intended to prohibit the use of 3rd party copyright because that's what could get ZOS and the player in trouble if they allowed it. I do not see the point in disallowing someone to call themselves "plague doctor" just because ZOS named an item set like that.

TPishek

<snip>

She literally said using tamrielic house names was fine, stop that now.

<snipped quote>

JavaRen

Read Gina's last comment, she specifically said that Abnur Tharn was bad, but Gina Tharn is fine.

Pelican

This doesn’t make sense at all. Why permanent ban someone who had those names for years instead of giving a warning or giving them some name change tokens?

And its not even offensive or degratory, I’ve seen the email and it was just role playing names in a ROLE PLAYING GAME, the player got perma’d for some violation of a rule vaguely implied in the TOS. Are they trying to find ANY reason at all, no matter how small, to ban this player because they don’t like this player for whatever reason? Is it because said player have previously commited some past unrelated offences? If so what they doing is like sentencing someone to life imprisonment for speeding instead of giving them a ticket just because they have a criminal record.

Going by this logic probably a third of ESO’s playerbase should be handed permanent bans but meanwhile there are people doing more henious things that are only getting warnings/minor punishments or none at all.

JavaRen

Again, read Gina's last comment. This ban WAS NOT JUST for having an improper name. It was for a history of ToS violations, the last of which was the name.

Greasytengu

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, we'd like to provide some clarification here based on what was said earlier.

First, we typically don't ban an account for a bad character name if there is no other TOS history on the account. We will simply just have you change the name. Now, if there is an extensive TOS history, there may be situations where your account could be suspended or banned for a character name that breaks the TOS.

We also want to clarify that using Tamrielic house names or other lore-friendly names is fine and isn't breaking the TOS. What we don't allow is using the proper name of major characters, bosses, etc. For example, you can't name your character Abnur Tharn but you could name a character Gina Tharn.

Hope this helps, but please let us know if you would like additional clarification!

What Id like to know is if parody names are ok.

Examples: 'Molag Ballin' , 'Radal al-Saranwrap' , 'Minimarco' (IDK if any of these are actually in use)

People like to riff on established characters, its just part of getting immersed in the lore and I've seen examples of it in just about every MMO ever.

redspecter23

TPishek wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

We're not getting the full story, simple as that.

JD2013 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

So I always give my ESO characters the surname Motierre after the very prominent lore friendly Motierre family of Bretons. Now, my name does not coincide with any of the in game NPC characters. Is this okay? I am now legit worried

From what I can gather, it's technically a violation but it's ok until ZOS need to ban you for something, then they can use this as a reason.

She literally said using tamrielic house names was fine, stop that now.

I honestly don't think I said anything incorrect based on the information provided in this thread and outside sources. I think we both agree that doing things the way I said is absolutely not cool, but it doesn't mean they don't have the power to do it if they choose to. That's what I'm getting at. It's not whether they will or not, it's that they can if they want to and they can choose to apply that form of punishment at their discretion. Most players will likely never be banned for a lore friendly name violation, but ZOS reserves the right to action accounts for it if they want to.

Alinhbo_Tyaka

JD2013 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

So I always give my ESO characters the surname Motierre after the very prominent lore friendly Motierre family of Bretons. Now, my name does not coincide with any of the in game NPC characters. Is this okay? I am now legit worried

Based on a post by @ZOS_GinaBruno earlier in this thread you should be ok.

"We also want to clarify that using Tamrielic house names or other lore-friendly names is fine and isn't breaking the TOS. What we don't allow is using the proper name of major characters, bosses, etc. For example, you can't name your character Abnur Tharn but you could name a character Gina Tharn."

TPishek

redspecter23 wrote: »

TPishek wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

We're not getting the full story, simple as that.

JD2013 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

So I always give my ESO characters the surname Motierre after the very prominent lore friendly Motierre family of Bretons. Now, my name does not coincide with any of the in game NPC characters. Is this okay? I am now legit worried

From what I can gather, it's technically a violation but it's ok until ZOS need to ban you for something, then they can use this as a reason.

She literally said using tamrielic house names was fine, stop that now.

I honestly don't think I said anything incorrect based on the information provided in this thread and outside sources. I think we both agree that doing things the way I said is absolutely not cool, but it doesn't mean they don't have the power to do it if they choose to. That's what I'm getting at. It's not whether they will or not, it's that they can if they want to and they can choose to apply that form of punishment at their discretion. Most players will likely never be banned for a lore friendly name violation, but ZOS reserves the right to action accounts for it if they want to.

You're spreading misinformation.

JD2013

Alinhbo_Tyaka wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

So I always give my ESO characters the surname Motierre after the very prominent lore friendly Motierre family of Bretons. Now, my name does not coincide with any of the in game NPC characters. Is this okay? I am now legit worried

Based on a post by @ZOS_GinaBruno earlier in this thread you should be ok.

"We also want to clarify that using Tamrielic house names or other lore-friendly names is fine and isn't breaking the TOS. What we don't allow is using the proper name of major characters, bosses, etc. For example, you can't name your character Abnur Tharn but you could name a character Gina Tharn."

Awesome, thanks. Less worried now!

SilverBride

Ratzkifal wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Whatever the motive of the player who reported another player for their name is, it doesn't change the fact that a player created a name that violated the ToS.

That being said, I think banning is pretty harsh unless the name was hate speech or vulgar.

To be fair, that's a very loose interpretation of the code of conduct because 6.1 reads

6.1 You will not post, transmit, promote or distribute any dynamic or static user-created or custom content which is not wholly owned by the account owner. Names or material protected by copyright, trademark or other intellectual property rights cannot be used at any time except by the rightsholder. Rights ownership must be established prior to use on any ZeniMax Media, Inc. site or service. Any use of material protected by intellectual property rights that is not wholly owned by the account owner is a violation of the Agreement, including the Code of Conduct.

If you want to go with the literal interpretation then TES family names are also "technically a violation" even if ZOS just clarified that they are allowing it. It certainly would also prohibit writing fan fiction too, which we have an extra forum section for...
To me 6.1 looks like it's intended to prohibit the use of 3rd party copyright because that's what could get ZOS and the player in trouble if they allowed it. I do not see the point in disallowing someone to call themselves "plague doctor" just because ZOS named an item set like that.

The point I was making was that it doesn't matter what the reporting player's motive was. If the player's name was seen as a violation the reporting player's motivation won't change that.

Ratzkifal

Greasytengu wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, we'd like to provide some clarification here based on what was said earlier.

First, we typically don't ban an account for a bad character name if there is no other TOS history on the account. We will simply just have you change the name. Now, if there is an extensive TOS history, there may be situations where your account could be suspended or banned for a character name that breaks the TOS.

We also want to clarify that using Tamrielic house names or other lore-friendly names is fine and isn't breaking the TOS. What we don't allow is using the proper name of major characters, bosses, etc. For example, you can't name your character Abnur Tharn but you could name a character Gina Tharn.

Hope this helps, but please let us know if you would like additional clarification!

What Id like to know is if parody names are ok.

Examples: 'Molag Ballin' , 'Radal al-Saranwrap' , 'Minimarco' (IDK if any of these are actually in use)

People like to riff on established characters, its just part of getting immersed in the lore and I've seen examples of it in just about every MMO ever.

Going off of what Gina said those names are perfectly fine.
But interpretting the code of conduct by the letter, then these are technically not allowed because you are using copyrighted material you do not own or have a licence to, and you are trying to circumvent a rule by intentionally misspelling something - so again technically a violation but probably allowed.

Tsukyme

With due respects to everyone but banning people for TES Lore names is really silly but i wonder why not use this time to instead of banning people with silly reasons like this, just go on PS4 and Xbox and PC and ban BOTS? Would be a way more helpful for the comunity.

silvereyes

SilverBride wrote: »

Whatever the motive of the player who reported another player for their name is, it doesn't change the fact that a player created a name that violated the ToS.

The question is not whether a technical ToS violation occurred. The ToS and Code of Conduct are written by lawyers to give as much power to ZOS as possible. They are intentionally broad, and often self-contradictory. They must not be interpreted literally at all times, or you end up with nonsensical situations, like the ToS being violated every time any player creates an account (see references in spoiler).

1. Section 1 of the Zenimax TOS says "By creating an Account, You agree that You do not own the Account, any user names created on the Account, any Content stored or associated with an Account (such as digital and/or virtual assets, achievements, virtual currency, and other Downloadable Content), or related data associated with the Account."
2. Section 6.1 of the Code of Conduct says "You will not post, transmit, promote or distribute any dynamic or static user-created or custom content which is not wholly owned by the account owner."

The Code of Conduct must be interpreted to avoid these nonsensical situations. For this, we look to official communications from ZOS for clarification of what they see as acceptable behavior.

The outrage in this case stems from what seems to most as an overly-broad interpretation, coupled with fears that this interpretation could lead to large swaths of the legitimate player population getting caught in the same net.

redspecter23

TPishek wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

TPishek wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Jazraena wrote: »

We're not getting the full story, simple as that.

JD2013 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

So I always give my ESO characters the surname Motierre after the very prominent lore friendly Motierre family of Bretons. Now, my name does not coincide with any of the in game NPC characters. Is this okay? I am now legit worried

From what I can gather, it's technically a violation but it's ok until ZOS need to ban you for something, then they can use this as a reason.

She literally said using tamrielic house names was fine, stop that now.

I honestly don't think I said anything incorrect based on the information provided in this thread and outside sources. I think we both agree that doing things the way I said is absolutely not cool, but it doesn't mean they don't have the power to do it if they choose to. That's what I'm getting at. It's not whether they will or not, it's that they can if they want to and they can choose to apply that form of punishment at their discretion. Most players will likely never be banned for a lore friendly name violation, but ZOS reserves the right to action accounts for it if they want to.

You're spreading misinformation.

I agree that it's fine as the quote there explains. ZOS has stated here that they won't ban anyone for using a lore friendly name and that's great. I like the clarification. However, it is still technically a TOS violation. They may choose not to enforce it, but that doesn't mean it's not technically a violation. What I would have like to have seen is them saying it is definitely not a violation. It's a semantic difference, but one that could make the difference to those that want to try to follow the rules if possible.

Destai

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, we'd like to provide some clarification here based on what was said earlier.

First, we typically don't ban an account for a bad character name if there is no other TOS history on the account. We will simply just have you change the name. Now, if there is an extensive TOS history, there may be situations where your account could be suspended or banned for a character name that breaks the TOS.

We also want to clarify that using Tamrielic house names or other lore-friendly names is fine and isn't breaking the TOS. What we don't allow is using the proper name of major characters, bosses, etc. For example, you can't name your character Abnur Tharn but you could name a character Gina Tharn.

Hope this helps, but please let us know if you would like additional clarification!

Thanks for the additional details, it eases my mind a little bit. Can you please clarify what happens if an account name has YT (YouTube) or TTV (Twitch TV), or matches a handle on those services? I've seen some of my favorite streamers get suspensions and bans over this and my Twitch handle matches on my characters (but doesn't mention YT or Twitch).

Pelican

JavaRen wrote: »

Again, read Gina's last comment. This ban WAS NOT JUST for having an improper name. It was for a history of ToS violations, the last of which was the name.

The last of which? This player had the same names for ages BEFORE they even committed the other offences you mentioned. They didn’t name change to it after lol. Kinda weird why they only decided to punish them for it now AFTER the other violations almost like they want the player gone no? Why wasn’t the issue of the character names raised up when zos was looking into their previous offences?

Tandor

Tsukyme wrote: »

With due respects to everyone but banning people for TES Lore names is really silly but i wonder why not use this time to instead of banning people with silly reasons like this, just go on PS4 and Xbox and PC and ban BOTS? Would be a way more helpful for the comunity.

What you describe isn't what happened. Read Gina's responses to this thread.

SilverBride

silvereyes wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Whatever the motive of the player who reported another player for their name is, it doesn't change the fact that a player created a name that violated the ToS.

The question is not whether a technical ToS violation occurred. The ToS and Code of Conduct are written by lawyers to give as much power to ZOS as possible. They are intentionally broad, and often self-contradictory. They must not be interpreted literally at all times, or you end up with nonsensical situations, like the ToS being violated every time any player creates an account (see references in spoiler).

1. Section 1 of the Zenimax TOS says "By creating an Account, You agree that You do not own the Account, any user names created on the Account, any Content stored or associated with an Account (such as digital and/or virtual assets, achievements, virtual currency, and other Downloadable Content), or related data associated with the Account."
2. Section 6.1 of the Code of Conduct says "You will not post, transmit, promote or distribute any dynamic or static user-created or custom content which is not wholly owned by the account owner."

The Code of Conduct must be interpreted to avoid these nonsensical situations. For this, we look to official communications from ZOS for clarification of what they see as acceptable behavior.

The outrage in this case stems from what seems to most as an overly-broad interpretation, coupled with fears that this interpretation could lead to large swaths of the legitimate player population getting caught in the same net.

The point I was making was that it doesn't matter what the reporting player's motive was. If the player's name was seen as a violation the reporting player's motivation won't change that. ZoS isn't going to say "You made a name that we feel violates our ToS, but since the player reporting you did so out of spite you won't have to change the name or have any action taken against you."

I have read too many posts blaming the person reporting and stating that they are exploiting the player reporting system by reporting something they see as a violation.