Accounts being suspended over appropriate names

BretonMage

Syldras wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

I can certainly understand a rule against impersonating an Elder Scrolls character

There are thousands of NPCs, I assume it would even be possible to choose the same name as one by accident, especially if you consider the typical Dunmer or Altmer naming conventions and choose a rather common name. It's not different to real life, just that IRL when you name your son Paul Smith, you can't be sued by an older Paul Smith, let alone be accused of trying to impersonate him

This is probably where ZOS would use some discretion, I'd imagine. If it's a common enough sounding, generic ES name, for example Nirelon (just randomly picked from UESP), I'm sure ZOS wouldn't do anything, but if you named a character after a main character like Abnur Tharn or Queen Ayrenn, they might.

Ragnarok0130

virtus753 wrote: »

My best guess is that ZOS considers names from the ES IP to be covered by this:

“Names or material protected by copyright, trademark or other intellectual property rights cannot be used at any time except by the rightsholder. Rights ownership must be established prior to use on any ZeniMax Media, Inc. site or service. Any use of material protected by intellectual property rights that is not wholly owned by the account owner is a violation of the Agreement, including the Code of Conduct.”

They have clarified sometimes in other threads when there have been questions about how to understand the ToS/CoC. Perhaps they could consider doing so here.

As one who frequently deals with similar matters in the real world, in my reading of the limited information in this thread, the naming of one's character with a lore friendly name doesn't infringe on ZoS' IP as the usage in question is actually inside of ZoS' IP (the game) and not outside such as naming one's for profit YT channel after ZoS' IP. This has to be a bot or a poorly trained overzealous new employee and will likely be overturned.

Syldras

BretonMage wrote: »

This is probably where ZOS would use some discretion, I'd imagine. If it's a common enough sounding, generic ES name, for example Nirelon (just randomly picked from UESP), I'm sure ZOS wouldn't do anything, but if you named a character after a main character like Abnur Tharn or Queen Ayrenn, they might.

I agree. In the initial post, they wrote that people had been suspended for using the Hlaalu and the Telvanni surname, though. If that's true, I would find it exaggerated, as these are huge clans with probably dozens of members, so I see nothing wrong to roleplay some random person from those families.

virtus753

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

My best guess is that ZOS considers names from the ES IP to be covered by this:

“Names or material protected by copyright, trademark or other intellectual property rights cannot be used at any time except by the rightsholder. Rights ownership must be established prior to use on any ZeniMax Media, Inc. site or service. Any use of material protected by intellectual property rights that is not wholly owned by the account owner is a violation of the Agreement, including the Code of Conduct.”

They have clarified sometimes in other threads when there have been questions about how to understand the ToS/CoC. Perhaps they could consider doing so here.

As one who frequently deals with similar matters in the real world, in my reading of the limited information in this thread, the naming of one's character with a lore friendly name doesn't infringe on ZoS' IP as the usage in question is actually inside of ZoS' IP (the game) and not outside such as naming one's for profit YT channel after ZoS' IP. This has to be a bot or a poorly trained overzealous new employee and will likely be overturned.

That is not what the CoC says tho. It says names from IPs may only be used by the rightsholder. That is, not us.

They don’t permaban just for one use of one otherwise inoffensive lore name anyhow, so I think it’s hardly fair to jump to the conclusion this was overzealous. We’re missing too many details we will never know.

Flaaklypa

ssewallb14_ESO wrote: »

I've had exactly one interaction with the player in question which in retrospect I probably should have reported, but decided to ignore and move on because I know what it's like to have a bad day. Since then others I've talked to have had similar experience.

I'm just saying I'd be skeptical of the claim that they were banned for their name.

exactly. people like this leave out crucial information, like past violations, or interactions. I HIGHLY doubt this was a one time thing, whats more likely is that this player is a repeated offender and did something fishy, and paid the price for it.

lolvrangsinn

Hope there's more to it.

I too use lore-friendly names, and a few have family names referencing other NPC's in past games (mainly Morrowind, for the nostalgia). No one "popular" like a Telvanni or anything. Usually just some "nobody" NPC.

That would not be cool at all if they didn't allow you to get into the lore of the series. That's kinda why a lot of us are here, I think....

Holycannoli

I'm 99.99% sure this will get reversed with an apology.

I'm also suspecting this is an automated bot issuing these bans. It's not a live person behind the keyboard doing (or so I hope!).

Even if a name is questionable, a ban is usually not warranted. Maybe a friendly request to change the name is all that is needed, and even that should be reserved for the rare cases when someone maybe has a popular NPC's name or something.

etchedpixels

virtus753 wrote: »

That is not what the CoC says tho. It says names from IPs may only be used by the rightsholder.

Generally speaking names aren't something you can assert ownership rights over except for tight specific circumstances. Which is something ZoS should probably be very glad of, otherwise they'd get sued every time they created an NPC that had the same name as someone's character in any other game.

I would imagine they were rather concerned about people using names like "superman" that are trademarked.

Ryath_Waylander

Just curious. Do they object to an account name, copied from an in game NPC, or a character name? I don't use lore friendly names for my account but I do sometimes use a surname for a toon of the same race.

Holycannoli

Ryath_Waylander wrote: »

Just curious. Do they object to an account name, copied from an in game NPC, or a character name? I don't use lore friendly names for my account but I do sometimes use a surname for a toon of the same race.

There's more to this story is what I'm starting to suspect. At first I thought it was a bot autobanning but now I'm not too sure.

Jazraena

The Dunmer RP community is chock-full of people using Lore Clan and House names and they remain untouched. The Great Houses are effectively nation-states; it'd be bizarre to block those.

Something else is going on here.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

Amottica

The person banned has the ability to appeal the ban and it’s for them to do that since Zenimax should not

I will note that we don’t have all the information related to why Zenimax took action. There is likely more to the story.

Good luck to your friend.

BloodMagicLord

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

With due respect, that is quite silly. Some people want to roleplay a character in the Elder Scrolls universe, that's why they bought a... Elder Scrolls roleplaying game.

SainguinKrist

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

Can we get clarification on names like mine?

Sanguine isn't a TES creation, but it is used as the name of an NPC.

However, the word almost certainly originated in the middle ages, from the resources I can find with a quick search.

I found the word as a teenager and thought it's definition/meaning was neat and I've used this name for close to 16 years online/in gaming since, and can prove so. I've also always spelled it uniquely, Sainguin, making it my "own". This has been my online handle since I started playing MMOs with MUDs and Runescape.

So am I risking having my name forcibly changed or is it only NPCs/names/etc that are entirely unique to TES?

Amottica

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

With due respect, that is quite silly. Some people want to roleplay a character in the Elder Scrolls universe, that's why they bought a... Elder Scrolls roleplaying game.

Actually, it makes sense. The character names are likely copy-write protected. I’ve seen major MMORPGs force name changes because a player chose a copyright protected name.

But again, there is likely more to the story.

SainguinKrist

Amottica wrote: »

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

With due respect, that is quite silly. Some people want to roleplay a character in the Elder Scrolls universe, that's why they bought a... Elder Scrolls roleplaying game.

Actually, it makes sense. The character names are likely copy-write protected. I’ve seen major MMORPGs force name changes because a player chose a copyright protected name.

But again, there is likely more to the story.

Completely understandable for TES specific names, but some TES names are just pulled from history.

I'm hoping for some clarification on names like mine.

Grizzbeorn

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

Please define "major."
I mean, obviously, Titanborn, Sahan, Tharn, and names of similar importance to the lore are major, but how far does "major" extend?
Are obscure NPC names from older TES games safe?

And would using one be bannable on the first offense, or would you just force a name change?
An outright ban for nothing more than a non-offensive name seems extreme.

PeacefulAnarchy

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

Can you clarify whether in cases like this the consequence is a ban or a suspension until name change? While I'm sure there are a lot of opinions on what should or shouldn't be allowed, I think the most concerning thing is what the consequences may be for unintentionally crossing the line. I don't know anything about this particular case, nor do I particularly care, but I think people would feel more comfortable knowing that if they make a mistake, or of the strictness of moderation changes, the consequence is having to rename a character/account name rather than losing access to your account for an indefinite time or even permanently.

PvP_Exploiter

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

Does this include the name of skills or effects?

Destai

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

So players risk getting banned for including their YouTube or Twitch handle and now we have to skirt around lore names? Doesn't seem that ridiculous? Why doesn't the system tell you it's an invalid/illegal name when you're naming the toon? Again, you guys fall on really aggressive tactics.

A lot of characters I've made were named using the in-game list of names available on UESP. While they don't match any NPC, some of them do have partial names of characters. I'll mix-match first and last names of characters, or make up my own names that sound similar.

jaws343

Amottica wrote: »

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

With due respect, that is quite silly. Some people want to roleplay a character in the Elder Scrolls universe, that's why they bought a... Elder Scrolls roleplaying game.

Actually, it makes sense. The character names are likely copy-write protected. I’ve seen major MMORPGs force name changes because a player chose a copyright protected name.

But again, there is likely more to the story.

There's also a use aspect to it as well. While one player may use a likeness in name in a non problematic way, another may use that same likeness in name to cause harm to the copyright. So, much easier to prevent all of those likenesses than risk someone harming the brand in any way.

jaws343

Destai wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

So why not bake it into the Character Creation screen? Why doesn't the system tell you it's an invalid/illegal name when you're naming the toon? Again, you guys fall on really aggressive tactics.

From my experience, it is actually baked in in a few circumstances. I tried to make a character than had an in game god's name in it: Was like Meridia's Champion or something like that, and it wouldn't allow creation.

CyberOnEso

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

The code of conduct states

You will not post, transmit, promote or distribute any dynamic or static user-created or custom content which is not wholly owned by the account owner.... Any use of material protected by intellectual property rights that is not wholly owned by the account owner is a violation of the Agreement, including the Code of Conduct.

And nowhere does this say this is just limited to the game.

• Is me posting the name "Queen Ayrenn" on the forums against the TOS?
  
• Am I allowed to say "Perfected Bahsei's Mania is a good item set"? Or is that in breach of the code of conduct?
  
• Am I allowed to type "Bahsei's Mania" in a group chat? Or am I breching your copyright? That is essentially the exact same thing as naming my character "Bahsei's Mania".
  
• Is this website in violation of the Code of Conduct https://eso-hub.com/en/sets/law-of-julianos? It distrubutes the name of an in- game item set. Nearly all in- game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc. are posted on fan sites, are those sites in breach of your code of conduct?

This is madness, from the perspective of section 6 of the code of conduct, naming your character is essentially the same thing as just typing it in the chat box. The code of conduct states "You may not post custom content that is not wholly owned by the account owner".

So should we be refraining from posting the names of Item Sets in chat, or mentioning the names of Bosses in guides?

ErinGoBrag520

If I name a character Isodara Than (for example) because lore says Abnor That had 16 children and I have made a backstory for my character about being a grandchild of Abnor, that can get a ban? I didn't do this but I think I did use Dres because it is a great house of Morrowind.

jaws343

CyberOnEso wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

The code of conduct states

You will not post, transmit, promote or distribute any dynamic or static user-created or custom content which is not wholly owned by the account owner.

Any use of material protected by intellectual property rights that is not wholly owned by the account owner is a violation of the Agreement, including the Code of Conduct.

Is me posting the name "Queen Ayrenn" on the forums against the TOS?

Am I allowed to say "Perfected Bahsei's Mania is a good item set"? Or is that in breach of the code of conduct?

Is this website in violation of the Code of Conduct https://eso-hub.com/en/sets/law-of-julianos? It distrubutes the name of an in- game item set. Nearly all in- game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc. are posted on fan sites, are those sites in breach of your code of conduct?

There's a pretty clear difference in discussion about the name/npc and presenting yourself as such.

Just like discussing a politician in real life is perfectly fine, but posing as them is fraud.

JN_Slevin

At this point what names are even allowed?

I understand if its copyright protected by other companies. But i have no idea anymore. Do i have to pay 18 character name changes now on the off chance i get a grumpy support employee?

thejadefalcon

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

Obviously copying major NPCs is reasonable, I don't want a thousand Abnur Tharns or Martin Septims running around. But even ignoring the obvious hope that you don't take action against names already in play when introducing a new character (for example, if someone made a Lady Arabelle before you'd introduced her, they would be grandfathered in and allowed to keep it), can you clarify some more about your rules?

1. There are 2 Imperial women in Oblivion called Alessia. While Alessia is a major figure in lore, it is understandable that, as in the real world with names like Mary, Jesus, Muhammad, their names will be copied by others millennia later. Are players naming their character Alessia in violation of TOS?
2. Some races often put great emphasis on their family names. Just as examples, there are 31 Hlaalu (Dunmer) in ESO alone, there are 12 Geric (Breton), 14 Rilis (Altmer), 8 Snowpeak (Nord). Are these a violation of TOS if a player uses one of these family names?
3. Redguards, in particular, often use locations as part of their name. An example are the 9 X al-Bergama in ESO. As Bergama is a location, is this a violation of TOS?

I understand that the TOS is there for a reason, but your initial reply has not helped the situation. It would be extremely comforting to have a concrete "yes" or "no" about where you enforce the spirit of the TOS, not the letter of it. Are our lore-abiding character names just one report by a salty player away from getting us banned?

Syldras

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey all, while we're not able to get into the specifics of this particular ban, we can clarify that names of in-game item sets, locations, major NPCs, bosses, etc are technically against the TOS (outlined in section 6.1).

Locations - does that mean you couldn't roleplay an Altmer bard named "Ancalmo of Rellenthil"?

CyberOnEso

jaws343 wrote: »

There's a pretty clear difference in discussion about the name/npc and presenting yourself as such.
Just like discussing a politician in real life is perfectly fine, but posing as them is fraud.

I agree. But the code of conduct does not say that... at all.
The code of conduct says

You will not post, transmit, promote or distribute any dynamic or static user-created or custom content which is not wholly owned by the account owner

The code of conduct does not mention presenting yourself as an NPC is against the rules.
It says you cannot post content which is not wholly owned by the account owner.