Should ZOS delay account-wide achievements until June?

Marto

Should they?
While I personally do really like account-wide achievement, and don't really care much about the specifics whos, whens or whats, it's clear that a lot of the playerbase is very concerned about those specifics.

Today's Patch Notes proves that ZOS is willing to listen to the feedback and do adjustments to achievements that the community thinks should/shouldn't be made account-wide.

But what if 4 weeks isn't enough time? Should ZOS delay the feature to the release of High Isle, in order to gather more feedback?

hafgood

Other

Account wide achievements should be delayed until such time that all feedback has been read and acted on. Basically they need to redesign totally what they have done and do it properly

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Account-wide achievements should be released with this update

Nope, i want it as soon as possible
Now that the museum qust are repaired, they only need to make the map not turn white on its own. And i personnaly wont ave any problem with them launching it as it is
Stuff can stay discovered if need be but do not show them as complete

kringled_1

Read the other thread. Museum stuff isn't even repaired entirely and silvereyes has characters in an incorrect state, neither complete or able to progress.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Account-wide achievements should be released with this update

kringled_1 wrote: »

Read the other thread. Museum stuff isn't even repaired entirely and silvereyes has characters in an incorrect state, neither complete or able to progress.

I read that, sem to be tied to having the acheivement unloched last week and relocked today. If it is indeed that, this wont be an issue on the live server

Danikat

Other

As with any update they shouldn't release it until it's ready. If they can fix the problems in the next 4 weeks they should release it then, if they can't then they should give it as much time as it needs.

I like the idea of account-wide achievements and I'm looking forward to it, but I think it's better to get things working before adding them to the game than try to fix them afterwards. Especially since this is a QoL update to an existing system, not a balance update or something else which will cause big problems if it's not released soon.

kringled_1

That exactly might not be an issue but without a fresh character copy it's hard to test.

redspecter23

Account-wide achievements should be released with this update

hafgood wrote: »

Account wide achievements should be delayed until such time that all feedback has been read and acted on. Basically they need to redesign totally what they have done and do it properly

While that is good for some, others are quite happy with the overall direction. This is a situation where ZOS can take some time and implement fixes, but if they listened to everyone, they would have a paradox where the both do and do not add account wide achievements at the same time. I think they should take as much time as possible to fix the easier things while still essentially implementing the system more or less as it is now. The steps taken to make museum collections character based is a solid compromise, but there are a few others that could also help make the system more palatable for everyone.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Other

I say delay it past June if necessary. This has been working as intended for over 8 years, a few months or even a year is not too much to ask.
And I still wonder why ZoS picked this, (AwA), as yes it has been asked for a few times, but there are SO many more QoL issues and bug fixes and other areas of the game that people have asked for way more often than AwA.
The fact that so many players who have defended and promoted ESO since 2013 and are staples to the game are speaking out against it should speak volumes.
Please delay and re-think this.
Thank You!

tomofhyrule

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

Reposting a bit from the feedback thread:

tomofhyrule wrote: »

That to me suggests that this change is completely destructive, and why ZOS should absolutely consider delaying account-wide achievements to find a more elegant solution.

Sure, things can be modified later or fixed to make it work better after the fact (see the highly unpopular change of swapping Rapids and Vigor, which was mitigated and improved by moving Major Gallop to a passive skill). But if AwA rolls out in its current form and then something like this is found, there will be no way to reset it. At all. The character data is gone.

As it is now, any players who opened a character on PTS last week and now this week had the items reset. Now is that character able to redo the quest to get Petraloop? Or are they now permanently locked out of that achievement because of the reset?

Imagine if this went live and then we found this. Then the entire playerbase will be stuck with a bugged achievement/quest, since the only fix would be to roll the servers back to before the achievements went account-wide to see which character had what. Either that, or they'd have to do a global reset of that quest/achievement (like we had for the CP reset due to the Armory bug) and make us all redo the quest or task to get it. Can you imagine the outcry if they had to reset a difficult achievement like a trifecta?

Please, ZOS, please listen to some of the concerns in this thread. We aren't against the idea of AwA, we just want to avoid losing our characters' history without anything else in its place to save it. And now, we want to make sure that that data doesn't end up getting irretrievably destroyed and introducing way more problems than it solves.

Again, I'm not against AwA, I'm only against the destruction of our only source of character progress.

The 'fix' for museums was to just reset the achievement for all characters. Now we can see that there are characters who did the quest to get one of the pieces, but then the achievement marks it as 'incomplete.' Can this character still redo that quest now? Or is it now permanently missable? Can ZOS's support team fix it? Or will that lead to problems like that one guy whose character got bricked by messing with achievements (can't find the old thread)?

What about the two queens in Elsweyr? What's that trigger? Does that mean that the entire MQ of Elsweyr needs to be character specific? When will that decision be made? And if it releases and then we get all of the bug reports of the two queens, how will that be fixed? Will they just delete the Elsweyr MQ data for all characters to fix it like they did here? Will we be able to redo those quests?

It just feels like they're implementing something that is a nice QoL, but not addressing the character history that people use to track alts or seeing all of the foundational elements that are still tracked on achievements. If there's a system that is being used to track progress, it can't be replaced until there's a system in place to handle the change. This... looks a bit jury-rigged together - the patch notes themselves say "We are continuing to explore a better solution to this problem but wanted to ensure you can at least continue earning these rewards on all characters in the meantime."

simox

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

Dont have an issue with account wide achievements in principle, but wiping out up to 8 years of peoples character history really irks me. Surely there must be someway to preserve that before this is pushed to live servers.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

I am wholeheartedly in favor of delaying something this far-reaching until all the kinks have been worked out.

ZiggyTStardust

They should probably go through a list of every bit of dialogue and story diffrences tide to achievements and make those character bound. I don't think people will mind if quest related or random encounter achievemtns like that wont be account wide

karthrag_inak

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

Delay them until June. 2047.

TPishek

Account-wide achievements should be released with this update

I say just put them in as is. There's going to be bumps in the road, bugs and glitches and hurt feelings, but I think this is one of those things that requires the Band-Aid to be ripped off all at once. It will end up being okay in the end.

code65536

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

It's not ready.

More importantly, it's not reversible. Character-specific information will be forever lost, so there's no "undo" button that you can press.

As such, it's reckless and irresponsible to go ahead with AWC with so many outstanding issues. The feature needs more time to bake and should be pushed back to the next update.

silvereyes

Other

Still three weeks one week of PTS left. I'm not hopeful, but we'll see if ZOS can pull a rabbit out of their hat like they did with Crown Gems, late in the PTS cycle.

Edit: I forgot about Stadia certification. I'm really not hopeful now, but I'll give it one more week before I decide.

silvereyes

Other

code65536 wrote: »

It's not ready.

Then again, if @code65536 says "delay", it probably needs delayed. Code's usually right.

Treeshka

I think so yes since the community is divided to two right now. Maybe more time is needed for a middle ground that will make both sides happy.

Wolfpaw

Account-wide achievements should be released with this update

TPishek wrote: »

I say just put them in as is. There's going to be bumps in the road, bugs and glitches and hurt feelings, but I think this is one of those things that requires the Band-Aid to be ripped off all at once. It will end up being okay in the end.

Agree.

According to Mr. Firor performance problems have been found, & going to take a lot of work fixing, let's not slow that process this year with AWA...PvP players have been waiting far too long.

Kesstryl

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

This needs to be delayed. There are still other quests that are bugged besides museum ones (epilogue in Markath for example, and two queens on the throne in Elsweyr, and more others have mentioned). NPCs are reacting to things alt toons have never done. Many of us want to see a two tab system with Account Wide Achievements in addition to Character based ones and preserve the individual character achievement and tracking we now have. Why can't we have both? This seriously needs to be delayed or I might delay renewing my sub.

Sonnir

Account-wide achievements should be released with this update

Account wide achieves should have been implemented YESTERDAY!! (Including motifs, which last I heard, will saddly not be included in account wide achieves.)

No delay; please keep this in the next update. I have been WAITING for this since Beta!

DarcyMardin

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

Please delay. I don’t have a problem, in principle, with changing more of the achievements to global, but there are tons of achievements in the game that are very much character-based (like the murdering and thieving ones, for instance, and the delve bosses, just to cite a couple of the many examples). More careful thought needs to be put into revising this system.

The current implementation is not ready for prime time, and worse, cannot simply be “fixed” later since the historical data is apparently being overwritten.

J18696

Account-wide achievements should be released with this update

Kesstryl wrote: »

This needs to be delayed. There are still other quests that are bugged besides museum ones (epilogue in Markath for example, and two queens on the throne in Elsweyr, and more others have mentioned). NPCs are reacting to things alt toons have never done. Many of us want to see a two tab system with Account Wide Achievements in addition to Character based ones and preserve the individual character achievement and tracking we now have. Why can't we have both? This seriously needs to be delayed or I might delay renewing my sub.

I can see npc reacting to certain achievements a character has not done being a issue but other than that I don't see a reason this was not in the game years ago

meekmiko

Other

I'm in the shouldn't be made account-wide boat.
Just, no thanks. I like my achievements and titles separate per character.
I like earning them on characters I want them on.

silvereyes

Other

J18696 wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

This needs to be delayed. There are still other quests that are bugged besides museum ones (epilogue in Markath for example, and two queens on the throne in Elsweyr, and more others have mentioned). NPCs are reacting to things alt toons have never done. Many of us want to see a two tab system with Account Wide Achievements in addition to Character based ones and preserve the individual character achievement and tracking we now have. Why can't we have both? This seriously needs to be delayed or I might delay renewing my sub.

I can see npc reacting to certain achievements a character has not done being a issue but other than that I don't see a reason this was not in the game years ago

How do you propose zos fix stuff like this after the information about which characters did the achievements is destroyed? And this is just one of the many bugs discovered so far. What about those that don’t get discovered during PTS at all, just due to the sheer number of quests and achievements out there?

TPishek

Account-wide achievements should be released with this update

silvereyes wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

This needs to be delayed. There are still other quests that are bugged besides museum ones (epilogue in Markath for example, and two queens on the throne in Elsweyr, and more others have mentioned). NPCs are reacting to things alt toons have never done. Many of us want to see a two tab system with Account Wide Achievements in addition to Character based ones and preserve the individual character achievement and tracking we now have. Why can't we have both? This seriously needs to be delayed or I might delay renewing my sub.

I can see npc reacting to certain achievements a character has not done being a issue but other than that I don't see a reason this was not in the game years ago

How do you propose zos fix stuff like this after the information about which characters did the achievements is destroyed? And this is just one of the many bugs discovered so far. What about those that don’t get discovered during PTS at all, just due to the sheer number of quests and achievements out there?

You're assuming they're just going to carelessly delete all that data as soon as the patch comes out, and I seriously doubt that is the case. At least not right away.

tomofhyrule

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

TPishek wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

This needs to be delayed. There are still other quests that are bugged besides museum ones (epilogue in Markath for example, and two queens on the throne in Elsweyr, and more others have mentioned). NPCs are reacting to things alt toons have never done. Many of us want to see a two tab system with Account Wide Achievements in addition to Character based ones and preserve the individual character achievement and tracking we now have. Why can't we have both? This seriously needs to be delayed or I might delay renewing my sub.

I can see npc reacting to certain achievements a character has not done being a issue but other than that I don't see a reason this was not in the game years ago

How do you propose zos fix stuff like this after the information about which characters did the achievements is destroyed? And this is just one of the many bugs discovered so far. What about those that don’t get discovered during PTS at all, just due to the sheer number of quests and achievements out there?

You're assuming they're just going to carelessly delete all that data as soon as the patch comes out, and I seriously doubt that is the case. At least not right away.

But that's what we're seeing. And besides, even if they did keep a backup of the last save state right before the update, are we expecting them to roll back the server a few hours (or even days!) to fix this? What about the people who jump right into the new dungeons and then wake up to see all of the new gear gone as if they never went in?

It's clear from the way that museum achievements was fixed that there is no more character data. If there were, they could have restored that easily so a character who found 5 instruments before PTS but got the full achieve after would now be back down to 5. But instead, all they did was delete progress in that achievement for people who tested it last week so you can go find everything again. And people who did the intro quest to get the first piece of the museum now have the quest done, can see the item there, but don't have it checked off in their book. That means that character is now permanently unable to get that achievement. Basically, the fix made it worse for characters.

Yes, it's the second week of a server on PTS so in the grand scheme of things it's not an issue. By the time this goes live, they won't need to reset those museum quests. But they've admitted that this is an inelegant solution and make it sound like it's currently duct-taped together. And more importantly, the museums aren't the only achievements bugged like that - I can think of at least 5 others off the top of my head that need to get the same duct tape fix, and that's still not addressing the Elsweyr issue.

If this rolls out as is and then a bug is found, it can't be fixed with a simple hotfix. It'll require a massive server rollback to before the update, or at least deleting quest progress for all characters on the server.

This isn't "oh, you just need to reset your CP since there was a bug with the Armory" like we had last patch. And how many people were annoyed/surprised about that when it happened? This could be "We reset your characters' progress back to a few days ago so you lost those days of playing," or "We had to delete your quest progress so the entire set of zone quests in Elsweyr have been reset." Those are not a little 'oopsie whoopsie,' that's a loss of more than a few hours/days of playtime. Are we expecting the playerbase to stick around if the developers come out and reset that much progress? Especially when there are a lot of people who are already a bit disgruntled and think that the High Isle Chapter Feature is underwhelming in comparison?

Kelinmiriel

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

I voted "delayed" just to get the point across that this thing is a nightmare that must not go out right now.

But my honest answer is that is shouldn't go out at all, unless it's fixed properly. Character achievement progress should not be scrapped, replaced by account-wide achievements.

Account-wide achievements could be added as a separate thing. Account-wide titles are fine.

Kelinmiriel

Account-wide achievements should be delayed to a future update

code65536 wrote: »

It's not ready.

More importantly, it's not reversible. Character-specific information will be forever lost, so there's no "undo" button that you can press.

As such, it's reckless and irresponsible to go ahead with AWC with so many outstanding issues. The feature needs more time to bake and should be pushed back to the next update.

Also, I totally agree with code on this. It's not ready - and it's not reversible.

silvereyes

Other

TPishek wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

J18696 wrote: »

Kesstryl wrote: »

This needs to be delayed. There are still other quests that are bugged besides museum ones (epilogue in Markath for example, and two queens on the throne in Elsweyr, and more others have mentioned). NPCs are reacting to things alt toons have never done. Many of us want to see a two tab system with Account Wide Achievements in addition to Character based ones and preserve the individual character achievement and tracking we now have. Why can't we have both? This seriously needs to be delayed or I might delay renewing my sub.

I can see npc reacting to certain achievements a character has not done being a issue but other than that I don't see a reason this was not in the game years ago

How do you propose zos fix stuff like this after the information about which characters did the achievements is destroyed? And this is just one of the many bugs discovered so far. What about those that don’t get discovered during PTS at all, just due to the sheer number of quests and achievements out there?

You're assuming they're just going to carelessly delete all that data as soon as the patch comes out, and I seriously doubt that is the case. At least not right away.

Whether they keep a backup or not is immaterial. If new activity is not logged per character, data is being lost.

Edit: exhibit A of a character who did an account wide achievement last week that was reverted to character scope this week.