The night-capping in Cyrodiil needs to stop.

Tiphis

What I've found is that people who play during the "night" tend to swap to the faction nightcapping. I used work nights and was on ep where a guild did alot of the nightcapping, over time more and more of the dc and ad players ended up changing to ep simply because they didn't get much enjoyment out of trying to fight the zerg. And as it was a guild group most of the ep players didn't change factions to even it out.

They really need to rework low pop bonuses, but as they've needed to and haven't, doubt they'd care now.

Iriidius

Yeah i also know former EP Players PvDooring red keeps on Blackreach PC EU in the middle of the night. Players from Australia playing at their prime time and also players at EU Playing in the middle of the Night would be no problem if they would be divided among all factions and fighting each other at night. But they are all playing for one faction and painting the whole map in one colour. And because the other factions are either sleeping or getting overrun by gatekeepers, it is staying like this for hours.

Tiphis

Iriidius wrote: »

Yeah i also know former EP Players PvDooring red keeps on Blackreach PC EU in the middle of the night. Players from Australia playing at their prime time and also players at EU Playing in the middle of the Night would be no problem if they would be divided among all factions and fighting each other at night. But they are all playing for one faction and painting the whole map in one colour. And because the other factions are either sleeping or getting overrun by gatekeepers, it is staying like this for hours.

Yeah, although I will say the Aussies were all really cool guys and gals, would've rather they didn't absolutely wreck the map for a few hours though.

Lumsdenml

Ultimately, I think it comes down to a population issue. One guild logging in with 15-20 people shouldn't make such a difference, but where there are only 20 people total in cyrodiil before, that guild just doubled the total pop.

Tommy_The_Gun

Cyrodiil has a dynamic reward system build-in when it comes to PvP objectives & AP.

If I am defending a keep and there is 10 of us vs 30 enemies and somehow we manage to defend it - then we get more AP, since the challenge was quite substantial and there was a risk involved. So sometimes you get those ridiculous def ticks, like 15K - 30K AP

On the other hand if I defend a keep vs 5 people and there is 30 defenders - then I get significantly less AP - like 1K AP or less.

The point is: Game rewards me more for doing more difficult content, and less if the player-generated content was easy.


So... um.... why it does not apply to Potential Points ? Those are fixed. It does not matter if it was last emperor keep with all players from all factions fighting over it, or if it was an empty keep defended only by AI NPCs. The reward is always the same. 1 point for objective and 10 if the objective was an Elder Scroll (doubled when it is your home, native objective).

This is something I do not understand. Why it was applied to AP, but not for Potential Points ?

NeeScrolls

Tiphis wrote: »

, although I will say the Aussies were all really cool guys and gals, would've rather they didn't absolutely wreck the map for a few hours though.

ROFL "wreck" the map?! They (or whomever) have every right to play Cyrodiil whenever the heck they feel like it.

It's a PVP free-for-all , 24/7 ... Therefore it's inherently un-wreckable.

Besides which, it's beyond easy to take back Keeps nowadays (even solo) much less taking soft resources.

That extreme easy-mode, plus *lag* and all the ridiculous faction-swapping & win-trading, is the real source of "wreckage" .
.

Rataroto

I love to see when this thread pops up again, let me go grab my popcorn again

magus.septim

One cool thing about pvp is that you can play whenever you want to play and, if you choose to organize a group, you can definitely do that and take map territories. Everyone has every opportunity to shape the map as they wish, it's just a matter of actually doing it.

darvaria

All they need to do is set up a que. If 2 bars is the max on a faction, then the other 2 factions should be capped at 2. We used to que all the time for True Flame.

darvaria

[img][/img]

darvaria

^ Oh yes. This looks like fun. 4/1/2. Fewer ppl, including myself, are playing during this time now. You have more players going to the pop locked faction next campaign so there is "something" to do. I see EP totally dying next campaign except for prime time. Why not just have 2 factions? Or set up a que? So a faction can't stack the night capping.

TechMaybeHic

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Cyrodiil has a dynamic reward system build-in when it comes to PvP objectives & AP.

If I am defending a keep and there is 10 of us vs 30 enemies and somehow we manage to defend it - then we get more AP, since the challenge was quite substantial and there was a risk involved. So sometimes you get those ridiculous def ticks, like 15K - 30K AP

On the other hand if I defend a keep vs 5 people and there is 30 defenders - then I get significantly less AP - like 1K AP or less.

The point is: Game rewards me more for doing more difficult content, and less if the player-generated content was easy.


So... um.... why it does not apply to Potential Points ? Those are fixed. It does not matter if it was last emperor keep with all players from all factions fighting over it, or if it was an empty keep defended only by AI NPCs. The reward is always the same. 1 point for objective and 10 if the objective was an Elder Scroll (doubled when it is your home, native objective).

This is something I do not understand. Why it was applied to AP, but not for Potential ebPoints ?

I was talking about this with friends the other night and only thing we could think of is because the score is evaluated even hour so what's going on then, may not be what was at the time of the take. And see low pop bonus for how that works out

What they could do is leave the current scoring for owning the objects hourly, but then add a much greater value that is racked up real time based on O tick and D ticks and actual player kills. Ight even encourage stacks to split up to try to take more than 1 keep at a time for better scoring or at least make overwhelming generally less rewarding. Problem would be getting people to defend as to respond to the pvdoors, but if they make sure Dticks stay worth while by fighting players still being better, then maybe it could

VaranisArano

darvaria wrote: »

All they need to do is set up a que. If 2 bars is the max on a faction, then the other 2 factions should be capped at 2. We used to que all the time for True Flame.

That's gonna go over really well on Greyhost. Oh, you're EP, but not enough AD or DC have logged in? Can't play in your home campaign...

Come to think of it, it's not like it's gonna go too well on the non-locked campaigns either, since you could easily find yourself locked out of your preferred character's faction waiting for other people to log on.

Yes, we used to queue on Trueflame all the time, but the crucial difference is that we could freely play at any time up til the population cap. We were never stuck waiting for the other factions to log on to play, only waiting for our own faction to log off so there was room.

So many suggestions that amount to enforcing population balance at the expense of players actually getting to play the game how and when they want to play. Can't say I'm surprised that ZOS hasn't implemented any of them.

darvaria

[img][/img]

4/1/1 .. and at one time the ep"1" was only 4 players.

Back when .... we waited in 200 ppl que to get in. You would go to another campaign. Some people used to transfer to the less populated faction

They really need to balance this. No matter what faction. Here's the "balance" an hour later. Even DC gives up. It was so bad an AD sent me a rather nice gift after I got zerged on my cold fire ... can't name you .. but thanks .. you're a sweetie. Actually, I've gotten several gifts from a zerging faction. A lot of them know this is pointless.

Kartalin

I wish pvpers were more interested in fighting each other instead of just getting AP through pvdoor. The ideal would be for individuals to spread out to the other factions since they kind of know what to expect at the times they like to play. The end of each campaign is an opportunity for people to start playing characters on other factions in an attempt to self balance on gray host, sad to see it isn't being utilized more.

This is also where the low pop bonus being broken sucks.

TechMaybeHic

Kartalin wrote: »

I wish pvpers were more interested in fighting each other instead of just getting AP through pvdoor. The ideal would be for individuals to spread out to the other factions since they kind of know what to expect at the times they like to play. The end of each campaign is an opportunity for people to start playing characters on other factions in an attempt to self balance on gray host, sad to see it isn't being utilized more.

This is also where the low pop bonus being broken sucks.

Rumor has it; more guilds are going to move to the faction that won the last few on PCNA.

RaikaNA

darvaria wrote: »

^ Oh yes. This looks like fun. 4/1/2. Fewer ppl, including myself, are playing during this time now. You have more players going to the pop locked faction next campaign so there is "something" to do. I see EP totally dying next campaign except for prime time. Why not just have 2 factions? Or set up a que? So a faction can't stack the night capping.

Why are you complaining that AD has more players? Of course, we need more players because DC and EP never lays a finger on each other. We get ganged up all the time by two other factions simultaneously. It's AD VS EP and DC.... Team purple.


What GH map 4/15/2022


This was going on for quite some time...

Tiphis

NeeScrolls wrote: »

Tiphis wrote: »

, although I will say the Aussies were all really cool guys and gals, would've rather they didn't absolutely wreck the map for a few hours though.

ROFL "wreck" the map?! They (or whomever) have every right to play Cyrodiil whenever the heck they feel like it.

It's a PVP free-for-all , 24/7 ... Therefore it's inherently un-wreckable.

Besides which, it's beyond easy to take back Keeps nowadays (even solo) much less taking soft resources.

That extreme easy-mode, plus *lag* and all the ridiculous faction-swapping & win-trading, is the real source of "wreckage" .
.

What part of "for a few hours" did you not understand?

[snip]

"It's a PVP free-for-all , 24/7 ... Therefore it's inherently un-wreckable."

"They (or whomever) have every right to play Cyrodiil whenever the heck they feel like it."

"the ridiculous faction-swapping & win-trading, is the real source of "wreckage""

LMAO how did you even say all that 1 sentence apart XD

[edited for minor baiting]

Tiphis

RaikaNA wrote: »

darvaria wrote: »

^ Oh yes. This looks like fun. 4/1/2. Fewer ppl, including myself, are playing during this time now. You have more players going to the pop locked faction next campaign so there is "something" to do. I see EP totally dying next campaign except for prime time. Why not just have 2 factions? Or set up a que? So a faction can't stack the night capping.

Why are you complaining that AD has more players? Of course, we need more players because DC and EP never lays a finger on each other. We get ganged up all the time by two other factions simultaneously. It's AD VS EP and DC.... Team purple.


What GH map 4/15/2022


This was going on for quite some time...

And now we have everything back with Ash and are pushing for dc's scrolls. Dc is down to just trikeeps, so now the map looks almost the same as your's except it's us and ep vs dc. It was just at that specific time the map looked like that. We do have more people playing at this time right now curtesy of a batch of the ep pugs that came to ad last camp and unfortunately seem to have stayed. Those pugs are not viewed particularly well by any faction and probably draw more ire towards us.

EDIT: Well actually now we're just pvdooring with 2-3x the numbers.

2nd EDIT: And now we're at 4-5x the numbers. Think this is probably what darvaria was talking about. I'm not even dismounting for keep takes anymore.

xFocused

RaikaNA wrote: »

darvaria wrote: »

^ Oh yes. This looks like fun. 4/1/2. Fewer ppl, including myself, are playing during this time now. You have more players going to the pop locked faction next campaign so there is "something" to do. I see EP totally dying next campaign except for prime time. Why not just have 2 factions? Or set up a que? So a faction can't stack the night capping.

Why are you complaining that AD has more players? Of course, we need more players because DC and EP never lays a finger on each other. We get ganged up all the time by two other factions simultaneously. It's AD VS EP and DC.... Team purple.


What GH map 4/15/2022


This was going on for quite some time...

This is the exact same problem PS4/5 GH NA server has. DC/EP won't lay a finger on each other majority of the time and instead just focus on AD. Hell, EP has both DC scrolls the other night and DC was still trying to gate AD, I don't get it. It's gotten so bad where AD will go from a full 3 bars to 1 because of the constant team purple zerging and it's pointless to play. Even when AD does get gated and lose both scrolls, DC/EP still won't fight each other. Happens every campaign

Iriidius

No factions gets more players because they are double teamed and need more players. The Faction will rather loose Players to the factions that double team them, except your faction is as strong as both teams together. Probably the other factions double team you because your faction outnumber them, Xv1 them and were gatekeeping them, has 1rst rank on leaderboard, had emperor that they wanted to dethrone and now they want to take revenge and keep you small and destroy your leadership you gained by Outnumbering them. We have 3 factions so if one is stronger, the other ones work together to stop that.
And often when it seems like the other factions are working together, it is just random or they have other reasons for that.

NeeScrolls

Tiphis wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

Iriidius wrote: »

. We have 3 factions so if one is stronger, the other ones work together to stop that.

i don't work together with any faction other than my own (EP) .

That, combined with a couple solid guilds, is one of the reasons why we've won 'Ravenwatch' 3 campaigns in a row.

And once Zenimax coders finally fix the *Emp buff BUG* , i'm sure the tide will turn again.

.[edited for baiting & to remove quote]]

Tiphis

NeeScrolls wrote: »

Tiphis wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

EDIT: I'm also more used to constant pvp unlike Ravenwatch. So my idea of "wrecked for a few hours" is definitely different than yours. Whereas I consider fighting only npc's to be boring, you may not.

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

NeeScrolls

Tiphis wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

Tiphis wrote: »

EDIT: I'm also more used to constant pvp unlike Ravenwatch. So my idea of "wrecked for a few hours" is definitely different than yours.

I've been PVP'ing since 2013 beta and always within no-CP campaigns (where more skill is involved) . I've also been EMP (twice) back in 2015-2016 era when it actually meant something. [snip]

Tiphis wrote: »

Whereas I consider fighting only npc's to be boring, you may not.

[snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

Tiphis

NeeScrolls wrote: »

Tiphis wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

Tiphis wrote: »

EDIT: I'm also more used to constant pvp unlike Ravenwatch. So my idea of "wrecked for a few hours" is definitely different than yours.

I've been PVP'ing since 2013 beta and always within no-CP campaigns (where more skill is involved) . I've also been EMP (twice) back in 2015-2016 era when it actually meant something. [snip]

Tiphis wrote: »

Whereas I consider fighting only npc's to be boring, you may not.

[snip]

[snip]

You can't refute that no-cp has less action because it is a FACT that there are less people playing. Significantly, to an almost hilarious degree. The ap differences on the leaderboard is massive. The 100th ranked DC player in grey host would be 11th in no-cp. Can't actually look any further because the leaderboard only goes down to 100, so it might be even worse.

[edited for baiting & to remove quote]

MidniteOwl1913

I'm a night person and my eso time is 10:30 to 2:30 PDT. I'm not going to change it. Are fewer people on at that time,? yes. Does it have *anything* to do with my choice? Nope!

If when I choose to play bothers anyone it doesn't sound like a me problem...

darvaria

The problem is ppl are leaving EP that play late night. They are going to mostly AD just to zerg down a low population faction. The population just needs to balance, no matter what time ppl choose to play.

It may have reached a point of no return. Do we even have enough players for 3 factions? Here's population at prime time 8:30 pm est. It's at the point that no one cares now. Prime time and it's 4/2/4. Just combine and have 2 factions.

[img][/img]

darvaria

OR give us a stat boost based on population. Then real PVPer's would want to play a less populated faction. WOW used tenacity, based on population, at Winter Grasp and it solved the population balance problem almost immediately.

acastanza_ESO

Edit: didn't realize you were talking about Grey Host. Things must be different there. Grey Host sounds like a big yikes.

Kordai

darvaria wrote: »

The problem is ppl are leaving EP that play late night. They are going to mostly AD just to zerg down a low population faction. The population just needs to balance, no matter what time ppl choose to play.

It may have reached a point of no return. Do we even have enough players for 3 factions? Here's population at prime time 8:30 pm est. It's at the point that no one cares now. Prime time and it's 4/2/4. Just combine and have 2 factions.

[img][/img]

A lot of ep left together to join ad to concentrate off prime ball groups and zergs, ad typically sits at 3 bars to poplocked 24/7 now, I know of at least 30 ep that went ad. It's unfortunate that they don't want to have good fights but it is what it is.