The night-capping in Cyrodiil needs to stop.

Kwoung

VaranisArano wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

While I will agree that it would be wrong to punish players in other time zones, I think many are missing the point that in most of the nightcapping cases I have seen, it isn't players from another country doing it. It is a group of local players staying up late to nightcap purposefully and all they have to do is wait for 10pm PST or so on NA servers, run the map and go to bed, leaving it whatever color until the players from asia log in and start playing and moving the map around again.

See, this is exactly why the Cyrodiil servers need to turn off when I log off for the night.

10pm central on the weekends. 9pm central on weekdays. That ought be fair, right?

I mean, gods forbid that those darned West Coast and Oceanic players get to capture keeps and rack up points after my bedtime. That shouldn't be allowed.


Side note: one of the things that most delighted me about the old Trueflame was if I couldn't sleep, I could log on at midnight and still join a PUG raid in Cyrodiil.

I implied no such thing, read my later posts. If there actually were enough players for PUG raids to happen late night still, this entire conversation would be moot. I just find it lame when myself and 2 friends can swing an entire campaign our way while thousands of other players have little to no impact or a viable way of combating it.

BlossomDead

That's not to say I do not understand your point, but IMHO better have the freedom to choose when to play, rather than convolute the whole system (that is already performing atrociously as it is).

One thing they could look at is alliance/campaign distribution and try to balance that a bit in the hope players are more evenly distributed (numbers wise). Going into much depth would create all sorts of rather unpleasant limitations.

We're all competitive in Cyro, I get it, but I think the goal of it is to smash some buttons and improve your personal KDA. That leaderboard only creates some incentive to improve player engagement.

Kwoung

They could probably fix the issue as well by simply removing the campaign score entirely, and doling out rewards to those who simply participated the most in each of their factions. This would probably be very unpopular though, even though I don't see the point of the score personally, since unless you happen to be logged in at the time the campaign ends (or someone who was tells you), you have no idea who won anyways, unless you get some gold jewelry in the mail.

I don't even think there is a website anymore that tracks it, is there?

Diminish

Define "non-prime time hours". Let me guess, it's when you are playing? What about everyone else? They just cant do anything efficiently in Cyrodiil without first killing 10+ vet trial buffed NPCs? My typical gaming time is at night, typically well after what I would consider prime-time as I am sure it is for many others. I want you to stop day-capping so that it does not put me at an unfair advantage if I login after midnight, and my faction is gated. With how things currently work, all factions can do the same thing so I don't see an issue.

VaranisArano

Kwoung wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

While I will agree that it would be wrong to punish players in other time zones, I think many are missing the point that in most of the nightcapping cases I have seen, it isn't players from another country doing it. It is a group of local players staying up late to nightcap purposefully and all they have to do is wait for 10pm PST or so on NA servers, run the map and go to bed, leaving it whatever color until the players from asia log in and start playing and moving the map around again.

See, this is exactly why the Cyrodiil servers need to turn off when I log off for the night.

10pm central on the weekends. 9pm central on weekdays. That ought be fair, right?

I mean, gods forbid that those darned West Coast and Oceanic players get to capture keeps and rack up points after my bedtime. That shouldn't be allowed.


Side note: one of the things that most delighted me about the old Trueflame was if I couldn't sleep, I could log on at midnight and still join a PUG raid in Cyrodiil.

I implied no such thing, read my later posts. If there actually were enough players for PUG raids to happen late night still, this entire conversation would be moot. I just find it lame when myself and 2 friends can swing an entire campaign our way while thousands of other players have little to no impact or a viable way of combating it.

So I'm not convinced that even your scoring idea would fix this.

I've dealt with some early morning behavior that some might call nightcapping. AD had a guild group of 24+some PUGs on. EP probably had about the same number of players, but no guilds, so we were pretty scattered. Needless to say, AD owned the map, and every time we'd recapture a keep, they'd swing through and destroy us because they were organized and we weren't.

When you talk about local groups of players who I stay up late, that's what I'm envisioning. Groups who don't just win through PvDoor, but also because their opposition simply isn't organized anymore. I mean, what are 20-30 small scale or solo players scattered across Cyrodiil gonna do versus a guild group who's smashing through keeps because they happened to stay on longer or log in earlier than the other guilds?

How to combat that? Dictate that guild groups can't log in until there's a guild group online to oppose them?


Fundamentally, all the nightcapping arguments don't really solve the issues that happen in low population Cyrodiil. They can't, and all too frequently, it boils down to a simple proposition: "What happens during my time competitive times is more important than other less populated, less competitive times." After all, you say no one decides which timezone is most important, but we all know which timezones are less populated. We all know what sections of the world are going to be impacted by a scoring change based on competitive populations.

That may not be what you are trying to say here, but it's a common thread in years and years of nightcapping arguments I've been reading on the forums. Everyone has their own pet way they'd solve the "problem" of low population times or trying to prevent uncompetitive times from influencing the score too much (whilst trying to ignore that it's definitely going to impact certain parts of the world more than others.) ZOS can't ignore that.

I think there's a simpler solution: we all accept that ZOS is never going to tell players in certain time zones that they are less important to the campaign score simply because there are less of them.

Kwoung

VaranisArano wrote: »

I think there's a simpler solution: we all accept that ZOS is never going to tell players in certain time zones that they are less important to the campaign score simply because there are less of them.

But aren't they actually saying the exact opposite? Which is equally as distasteful, if not more so, since a much greater number of players impact on the campaign is being minimalized?

I am not claiming to have the perfect solution, and quite honestly have no idea what that would be short of removing the campaign scores, but something (anything) should be done to make it a bit more fair. There is enough BS in Cyro and performance issues to boot, that knowing whatever you accomplished while fighting hundreds of other players, will be turned around and then some, by a few folks running keep to keep in PVE crit builds with little to no resistance, a few hours later.

Wolfpaw

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

You do know places like Australia exist right? Where it is Daytime here while your asleep in the US.

The problem imo is not night capping, it's the amount of players during those times.

If the mega servers were region/client locked we would see less drastic difference scores.

Even though ESO has never had region/client locked servers, originally NA mega server was advertised as the Americas, JP, & AU clients mega server. Due to popularity, & EU mega server performance (?), NA mega server campaigns have become the most populated world-wide.

I hope this is fixed some day with region/client locked servers.

IronWooshu

If they ever fix Cyrodiil where we can once again have more than 100 players per alliance, I would hope they merge EU/NA Cyro servers at least on consoles that way EU can play for when NA is sleeping and NA can play for when EU is sleeping.

On console it would be easier because PSN is global and two people can't have the same PSN tag. They might have the same character name but they just need to make it so Cyro only identifies by Gamertags.

BlossomDead

IronWooshu wrote: »

If they ever fix Cyrodiil where we can once again have more than 100 players per alliance, I would hope they merge EU/NA Cyro servers at least on consoles that way EU can play for when NA is sleeping and NA can play for when EU is sleeping.

On console it would be easier because PSN is global and two people can't have the same PSN tag. They might have the same character name but they just need to make it so Cyro only identifies by Gamertags.

Might be impractical due to high latency/ping. It's quite bad as it is if you don't live really close to the existing servers.

VaranisArano

Kwoung wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

I think there's a simpler solution: we all accept that ZOS is never going to tell players in certain time zones that they are less important to the campaign score simply because there are less of them.

But aren't they actually saying the exact opposite? Which is equally as distasteful, if not more so, since a much greater number of players impact on the campaign is being minimalized?

I am not claiming to have the perfect solution, and quite honestly have no idea what that would be short of removing the campaign scores, but something (anything) should be done to make it a bit more fair. There is enough BS in Cyro and performance issues to boot, that knowing whatever you accomplished while fighting hundreds of other players, will be turned around and then some, by a few folks running keep to keep in PVE crit builds with little to no resistance, a few hours later.

Yeah, there's that "What happens during my time  more competitive times is more important than other less populated, less competitive times" thing. I figured it was going to show up sooner or later.

And no, I don't see your point. You propose turning off the score at low population times. ZOS doesn't do anything like that to primetime players and never will. They won't do anything like that to their Oceanic players either.


Look, when I played regularly, I played for about 6 hours a week, primetime NA. Shouldn't my actions at Cyrodiil's most populated time count for more?! Sure it's only 36/720 hours in the whole campaign, but those were competitive hours, dang it. My contribution should matter more than those of some silly stay-up-late player who's running amuck at midnight when no one's around, right?

Nah. The servers don't turn off when I stop raiding. This is a 24/7 online game, and I'm fine with that.

Luke_Flamesword

Technically it may be difficult to implement but they should change how points system works. It should take into account population numbers - low pop factions should earn more points for sucessful activities when they are outnumbered and vice versa - if large numbers of people from one faction achieve anything in almost empty Cyroddil - they should earn only small fraction of points. It's only solution which allows to play whenever anybody wants but also it's fair for everyone.

Diminish

Kwoung wrote: »

There is enough BS in Cyro and performance issues to boot, that knowing whatever you accomplished while fighting hundreds of other players, will be turned around and then some, by a few folks running keep to keep in PVE crit builds with little to no resistance, a few hours later.

You should have logged in earlier in the day, and capped more keeps/resources to further increase your score to offset the fact that when your "prime-time" is over, other alliances may just have their "prime-time" consisting of PvE main ball groups that come steam roll the map until you next login.

What exactly are you expecting with this post other than coming to the conclusion that the game does not open and close like a convenience store? Perhaps adjust your schedule so you can be on to defend keeps later at night? Or you can tell the other alliances that Cyrodiil officially closes at 10PM PST Sun-Thurs, and 2AM PST Friday and Saturday. When you queue up after hours, everyone can be greeted with a timer countdown to when Cyrodiil officially opens for the day. Smart remarks aside, the only changes I can think of for this non "issue" would have more negative affects than positive.

FantasticFreddie

I used to have a blast playing with the Aussie crowd at around 6am EST.
Sorry that this is a global game and people can't just play when you think they should.

James-Wayne

No no no .. just because it isn't prime time for you doesn't mean it's not prime time for Australians.

Hapexamendios

My summary of this:

Let's penalize people for living in different time zones!

Kwoung

Hapexamendios wrote: »

My summary of this:

Let's penalize people for living in different time zones!

Yes, I am tired of being penalized for living in the US and playing on the US servers. Apparently according to some posts above, if I actually want to help a campaign as a US based player, I should play on the EU servers.

Honestly, I don't really care as the score is meaningless and the rewards for winning are basically trash and I earn tons of AP for myself regardless. But if there is going to be a system, it should actually work and not be completely broken and so easily abused.

Have I ever said my contribution should count any more or less than anyone else's, nope. Should the contribution of thousands of players count more than that of 3-6 people, IMHO yes.

david_m_18b16_ESO

Its one of the thing that killed warhammer online. People would just attack empty city and circle around. Sur it gave ton of rewards but eventually, people got bored and just quitted.

Amottica

Kwoung wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

While I will agree that it would be wrong to punish players in other time zones, I think many are missing the point that in most of the nightcapping cases I have seen, it isn't players from another country doing it. It is a group of local players staying up late to nightcap purposefully and all they have to do is wait for 10pm PST or so on NA servers, run the map and go to bed, leaving it whatever color until the players from asia log in and start playing and moving the map around again.

See, this is exactly why the Cyrodiil servers need to turn off when I log off for the night.

10pm central on the weekends. 9pm central on weekdays. That ought be fair, right?

I mean, gods forbid that those darned West Coast and Oceanic players get to capture keeps and rack up points after my bedtime. That shouldn't be allowed.


Side note: one of the things that most delighted me about the old Trueflame was if I couldn't sleep, I could log on at midnight and still join a PUG raid in Cyrodiil.

I implied no such thing, read my later posts. If there actually were enough players for PUG raids to happen late night still, this entire conversation would be moot. I just find it lame when myself and 2 friends can swing an entire campaign our way while thousands of other players have little to no impact or a viable way of combating it.

The reality of Cyrodiil's was that balance between the factions at any time of day or ever is not part of the design. It is not intended to be truly competitive but merely a fun PvP experience.

For players that want a competitive PvP experience that is intended to be balanced then BGs if the better choice.

SeaGtGruff

It's like the song from that well-known musical duo, Altmer Jackson and Jimmy Bosmer-- "It's Prime O'Clock Somewhere."

Kwoung

Amottica wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

While I will agree that it would be wrong to punish players in other time zones, I think many are missing the point that in most of the nightcapping cases I have seen, it isn't players from another country doing it. It is a group of local players staying up late to nightcap purposefully and all they have to do is wait for 10pm PST or so on NA servers, run the map and go to bed, leaving it whatever color until the players from asia log in and start playing and moving the map around again.

See, this is exactly why the Cyrodiil servers need to turn off when I log off for the night.

10pm central on the weekends. 9pm central on weekdays. That ought be fair, right?

I mean, gods forbid that those darned West Coast and Oceanic players get to capture keeps and rack up points after my bedtime. That shouldn't be allowed.


Side note: one of the things that most delighted me about the old Trueflame was if I couldn't sleep, I could log on at midnight and still join a PUG raid in Cyrodiil.

I implied no such thing, read my later posts. If there actually were enough players for PUG raids to happen late night still, this entire conversation would be moot. I just find it lame when myself and 2 friends can swing an entire campaign our way while thousands of other players have little to no impact or a viable way of combating it.

The reality of Cyrodiil's was that balance between the factions at any time of day or ever is not part of the design. It is not intended to be truly competitive but merely a fun PvP experience.

For players that want a competitive PvP experience that is intended to be balanced then BGs if the better choice.

If that is the case, then there should simply be no campaign score, as the score seems to actually take away from the fun, not enhance it. And I do find Cyrodiil fun, it is the best part of the game for me at least.

StevieKingslayer

Im not gonna stop playing my timezone because you dont have your faction on at the time. Maybe tap your own alliance to wake up and come pvp instead of leaving us to pvdoor because there is nothing for us to do

NA and EU server sucks for us ping wise. So we have to put up with bad ping and now you guys complaining we play at all.

method__01

DC in PC EU Gray Host is pop locked every day from 11 am,they are now 20.000 ahead and the few EP who join in the morning have absolutely no luck doing anything ,AD only make things worst by attacking only Sejanus,BRK and drake-till they log out,leaving DC with 3 bars,emp,3-4 scrolls and other 2 allainces with 1 cause no fun playing the night when you getting zerged the whole day

Arunei

Spot the people who don't understand time zones when it comes to a worldwide game.

There are two megaservers for everyone who plays people. Nightcapping doesn't exist in a game where it's daytime some people and night for others. Wanting there to be any penalty for any period of time or regardless of the number of players involved just makes you seem entitled.

Also...if the map didn't flip at some point, then what would you take back? If the map was literally always held by one alliance then what, you just sit around waiting for someone to try and take x or y? That sounds kind of boring imo.

spartaxoxo

You know it's super unfair that California people can play at a time when New Yorkers are bed even in the America region, so they should turn that feature on at 9pm EST. I know it's only 6 pm California time and people are just arriving home from work but they shouldn't be able to play the game when New Yorkers are asleep.

/s

Xandreia_

Because the entire world lives on 1 time zone 😂

MasterSpatula

I, too, consider it borderline cheating when anyone plays at any time I can't or won't.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

People always post about "those in other timezones" the issue isn't the time that the map is being flipped it's the population imbalance.
To cure this all zos needed to implement was scaling evaluation timers based on population ratios. (suggested 4 years+ ago). And potentially some interesting 'reinforcement' mechanics for low pop factions like NPC battalions which go to siege keeps / scaling guard numbers or difficulty based on population imbalance in last 3 keeps etc.

pleximus

drsalvation wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

While I will agree that it would be wrong to punish players in other time zones, I think many are missing the point that in most of the nightcapping cases I have seen, it isn't players from another country doing it. It is a group of local players staying up late to nightcap purposefully and all they have to do is wait for 10pm PST or so on NA servers, run the map and go to bed, leaving it whatever color until the players from asia log in and start playing and moving the map around again.

and what's stopping other alliances from doing the same?

This!

Start an alliance exclusive guild to combat this "problem".

madrab73

RaikaNA wrote: »

Start buffing up guards during non-prime time hours... I suggest boosting guards up to veteran trial level... giving them a massive amount of health plus letting them hit hard.



DC isn't winning in Ravenwatch (NA) because they're good... they're winning because as soon as AD logs off for the night... DC logs in and take the entire map without much of a fight.

Please change the scoring so my alliance can win by zerging the map down for 3 hours a day?

madrab73

It raises a fair point though. Most of the campaigns are empty and ZOS knows which these are. Why not try a prime time only (campaign length 5 hours) campaign on each server to take the strain of the main campaign?