The night-capping in Cyrodiil needs to stop.

SeaGtGruff

Adernath wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

You do know places like Australia exist right? Where it is Daytime here while your asleep in the US.

Frequent argument used by night cappers...

Heh. I'm in the eastern USA, and 8 PM ET through 4 AM ET are usually my prime playing hours, on both servers. On nights when I'm playing mostly on PC EU, I regularly see guildies wishing everyone a good morning or good afternoon even though it's still nighttime for me.

Wolfpaw

phairdon wrote: »

Outside of banning play during certain hours, what can you do? People live in different time zones around the world.

I would like the removal of most keep guards and replaced with the deadlands system, Wandering Executioner Bosses. Upgradeable/boosted with Alliance points and farm. Make the upgrades AP currency.

Upgrades: skills, ults, attributes, etc...

Current guards are too easy to melt, and reducing the npc count in Cyrodiil definitely won't hurt performance.

SeaGtGruff

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Current guards are too easy to melt

Is it possible to heal guards? They almost always seem to be at less than full health whenever I go to Cyrodiil, and I'd love to be able to heal them for AP the way I can repair walls and doors and stuff.

Lumsdenml

RaikaNA wrote: »

Start buffing up guards during non-prime time hours... I suggest boosting guards up to veteran trial level... giving them a massive amount of health plus letting them hit hard.



DC isn't winning in Ravenwatch (NA) because they're good... they're winning because as soon as AD logs off for the night... DC logs in and take the entire map without much of a fight.

Doesn't this happen in u50 a lot with AD? I think there is a large AD guild that logs in and does this... Do you know?

gronoxvx

Heaven forbid anyone outside of the US or EU pvp's.

[snip]
[edited for rude/insulting comment]

ESO_Nightingale

RaikaNA wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

RaikaNA wrote: »

Start buffing up guards during non-prime time hours... I suggest boosting guards up to veteran trial level... giving them a massive amount of health plus letting them hit hard.



DC isn't winning in Ravenwatch (NA) because they're good... they're winning because as soon as AD logs off for the night... DC logs in and take the entire map without much of a fight.

Did know that when it's night for you and sleeping...... Other parts of the world are just waking up or in their afternoon?

So is it really nightcapping when it's daytime for others playing? Idk just a thought here lol

Then you should select EU server instead of playing on the NA server. Why should you get an easy emp and win campaign every single month without much of a fight while the rest of us are busting our ass on prime time to earn our bread?

That's the simple solution for solving a lot of issues... play on the server that is friendly to your time...

why the hell should i have even worse ping than i already do when i play the game [snip]

[edited for mild bait]

Arunei

@xDeusEJRx
Unfortunately, it isn't really fair to people who play during less populated times to deal with increased difficulty because a handful of people might stay up past NA prime time to go around doing stuff. I can agree, though, with a system that makes things more difficult across the board and regardless of population, such as the idea about having something similar to Wandering Bosses. I doubt something like that will ever happen, but something that's across the board and doesn't give anyone playing during NA's off hours an unfair disadvantage would work.

Adernath wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

You do know places like Australia exist right? Where it is Daytime here while your asleep in the US.

[snip]

Empty counter argument from someone who apparently thinks it's impossible for people to play outside of NA.

[edited to remove quote]

Rataroto

Imagine not considering time zones... bro, your primetime isn't everyone elses. Chill

Amottica

Kwoung wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

While I will agree that it would be wrong to punish players in other time zones, I think many are missing the point that in most of the nightcapping cases I have seen, it isn't players from another country doing it. It is a group of local players staying up late to nightcap purposefully and all they have to do is wait for 10pm PST or so on NA servers, run the map and go to bed, leaving it whatever color until the players from asia log in and start playing and moving the map around again.

See, this is exactly why the Cyrodiil servers need to turn off when I log off for the night.

10pm central on the weekends. 9pm central on weekdays. That ought be fair, right?

I mean, gods forbid that those darned West Coast and Oceanic players get to capture keeps and rack up points after my bedtime. That shouldn't be allowed.


Side note: one of the things that most delighted me about the old Trueflame was if I couldn't sleep, I could log on at midnight and still join a PUG raid in Cyrodiil.

I implied no such thing, read my later posts. If there actually were enough players for PUG raids to happen late night still, this entire conversation would be moot. I just find it lame when myself and 2 friends can swing an entire campaign our way while thousands of other players have little to no impact or a viable way of combating it.

The reality of Cyrodiil's was that balance between the factions at any time of day or ever is not part of the design. It is not intended to be truly competitive but merely a fun PvP experience.

For players that want a competitive PvP experience that is intended to be balanced then BGs if the better choice.

If that is the case, then there should simply be no campaign score, as the score seems to actually take away from the fun, not enhance it. And I do find Cyrodiil fun, it is the best part of the game for me at least.

The campaign score gives a reason for strategy and trying. Considering there is no mechanism to control the population the scoring is clearly meant for entertainment value only.

MeishaTrans

RaikaNA wrote: »

Start buffing up guards during non-prime time hours... I suggest boosting guards up to veteran trial level... giving them a massive amount of health plus letting them hit hard.



DC isn't winning in Ravenwatch (NA) because they're good... they're winning because as soon as AD logs off for the night... DC logs in and take the entire map without much of a fight.

You should probably try not getting 1vxd before you come on the forums pretending like you losing isn't due to an enormous skill gap and because no ad zerg guilds log on unless you have a 1 bar pop advantage, because of said enormous skill gap...

MindOfTheSwarm

It works both ways. If no one is there to defend, then too bad. However, offering greater AP for player kills, and keep defence would help to balance it out a bit.

geonsocal

out of curiosity - anyone else out there playing during "off-hours"...man, that's usually all i play...

i ain't gonna lie - i've had that buff the heck out of the guards and home keep doors and walls idea too - always get that exact idea as i'm being gated off the map...

i've also had to re-take a keep before with just one other person...it's quite the time-consuming and fairly challenging experience...

i don't know what the proper answer is - seeing as how we're all hanging on to a small pebble in the sky moving millions of kilometers an hour and spinning crazy around some big round shiny fusion ball thing...

but yeah, our 3 home keeps need help during low pop events (zero bars for an alliance, which is like what now - 4 to 6 hours out of every 24 monday through friday) - WHETHER WE ARE DEFENDING THEM OR TRYING TO RE-CAPTURE THEM...

they are our home keeps, that alliance should have some statistical advantages both when defending and capturing...

heck - don't buff the guards @RaikaNA - buff me

O_LYKOS

People seriously still moaning about night capping? So when you log off you expect the rest of the world to not play either? Do some research on time zones.

ZOS_Icy

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Tommy_The_Gun

Tbh. I have totally "zero" issues with some players playing when there is a "day" for them. If it is the only time they can play - it is totally fine. Tbh I kinda feel sorry for them, as all they can do is to "paint" the map as they do not meet almost any resistance what so ever and they may not even know what a prime time pvp looks like. All they can do is PvE (or PvD).

What is problematic though is Cyrodiil & AvAvA (3 banner war) is a primarily a PvP activitiy. All campaigns are PvP campaigns. The whole paradox is that (because of how scoring & potential points work) it is PvE or PvD that for the most part decides who wins a PvP campaign (PvP activity). It is a terrible design flaw. Right now it has gone so bad that people don't care about objectives & points. Because it has been devalued so much by night / morning PvD that it made it irrelevant.

Veinblood1965

This one thinks that everyone should only play at the times that I play. Problem solved.

GormBT

All PVP problems will be solved when Cyro is discontinued and replaced with the wonderfully monetized card game. It will truly give us PVP's something new to whine about.

neferpitou73

The night-capping issue is directly connected to the zerging issue and is the main reason I left PC Raven NA.

One faction (AD during the time I was there) would zerg down the map for 3-5hrs at night making it impossible to get anything done if you were outnumbered. Usually they'd cap everything up to the gates. Some would even remain on after to keep the other factions gate-camped.

This, of course was frustrating to the gate-camped factions who decided the only way they could win the campaign was ruthlessly taking the map during off hours, when there wasn't as much opposition.

Which in turn ticked off the zerg faction who would ruthlessly zerg down the map during prime-time and try to gate camp harder. And so on...

Not quite sure how you fix any of these issues without changing the scoring system completely.

NeeScrolls

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Not quite sure how you fix any of these issues without changing the scoring system completely.

Personally, i don't even think there is an "issue" tbh, since Cyrodiil = free-for-all zone 24/7 ...Period. However, just for sake of the thread, what about doing what i & many others have done since ESO began: Form a group and try making plans to coordinate with more players, guilds, & friends of same faction to match the other factions. (aka strength in numbers )

Simple. And literally EVERYONE has equal opportunity to do this, no?
.

neferpitou73

NeeScrolls wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

Not quite sure how you fix any of these issues without changing the scoring system completely.

Personally, i don't even think there is an "issue" tbh, since Cyrodiil = free-for-all zone 24/7 ...Period. However, just for sake of the thread, what about doing what i & many others have done since ESO began: Form a group and try making plans to coordinate with more players, guilds, & friends of same faction to match the other factions. (aka strength in numbers )

Simple. And literally EVERYONE has equal opportunity to do this, no?
.

But that doesn't address the issue of population imbalance. If your faction has a maximum of 30-40 players on at any given time and the other has 50-60 players coordination only gets you so far, at least in no-proc. When I was in Raven 90% of the DC faction was 3 groups of AoC coordinating. But we still fell in opposition to sheer numbers.

In proc it's a different story because farming zergs is 10x easier.

Kartalin

Population imbalances are the underlying problem, specifically the part of each population at any given time that is actually participating in pvp. As @Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO mentioned.

Playing DC on the Ravenwatch campaign OP mentioned, we're just as frustrated with the massive lead that we have as AD is. That's because during prime time when AD is zerging with at least 1 bar of population advantage if not 2, we can't even get a low pop bonus for our troubles since we're in first place.

Campaign score in Ravenwatch and it's previous no cp incarnations has been largely meaningless going back to when it was Azura's Star. It's just not the main campaign and we don't have relatively equal populations at all times, and as much as we would hope people would spread out and help balance populations (our guild switched from AD to DC last year for example), there's not as many willing to do it as is needed.

Iriidius

Interisting how most Players here believe that the nightcappers are players from Australia and east Asia that only PvDoor because they dont have an own server and there are no other Players for them to fight against in Cyrodiil and that the evil Players that are against nightcapping all went to bed at 9pm and want to prevent all PvP after this.
The nightcappers on Blackreach Pc EU are often players that you also can see at other times of the day, some of them also have german, french or russian names. Probably most of them just stay Online after almost all Players from other factions have left.
They want to avoid competitive fights at all costs. If they see an enemy player at the horizon they zerg him down. They have siege shield and detection active all the time so even if you hit them with 3 oil at the same time no one will die and you cant bomb them. If i defend an EP keep they will take AD Keeps first so i have to wait for them or go offline.
The night/morning capping factions DC and AD didnt get zerged down by EP in the Evening, they are zerging down EP and destroying balance willingly.

VaranisArano

Iriidius wrote: »

Interisting how most Players here believe that the nightcappers are players from Australia and east Asia that only PvDoor because they dont have an own server and there are no other Players for them to fight against in Cyrodiil and that the evil Players that are against nightcapping all went to bed at 9pm and want to prevent all PvP after this.
The nightcappers on Blackreach Pc EU are often players that you also can see at other times of the day, some of them also have german, french or russian names. Probably most of them just stay Online after almost all Players from other factions have left.

I'm on PC/NA, so my "nightcappers" are mostly Oceanic players and NA players staying up way past my bedtime.

Fine by me - we all play when we can play.

gameswithaspoon

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

You do know places like Australia exist right? Where it is Daytime here while your asleep in the US.

Taking off guild tags isn’t enough to conceal that the players in question are American time zone. On Ravenwatch PC NA it’s generally the top ten on the leaderboard and a handful of friends. And we know them all.

The incentive to nightcap though is a problem of how many points the scrolls are worth. You don’t have to buff guards or anything. Just set the scrolls back from 20 or 10 points per eval to 2 or 1.

Certainly, you’re going to earn more gold in one hour of fishing than nightcappers get for 30 days of sweat. The problem is that the point lead is so large that the winning faction has no obligation to actually play when they have to do more than fight doors.

lexicondevil99

Everybody paid their money. Everybody gets to play the way they want. Some people are AP *** who purposely cap everything during low population, some people live in other parts of the globe (or flat disk, whatever you believe), Some people play off hours because that's when they have time, or they don't like sitting in a queue, or they don't like prime time lag, or whatever other reason to include no reason at all.

Alutora

There will always be a faction with a night cap group. And that faction will always win. Strong night cap is the key to winning Cyrodiil.

I was part of one for two months. We would get up at 2.30 AM every day and take the whole map, from empty keeps, to outposts and resources.

We would log out about 12-13 PM, just as most players would come back from work and would be able to take over.

All of us on EU server, UK/Germany players. Not a single Aussie, or a player from vastly different time zone.

What I would suggest: during “night time”, make that the score evaluation take longer - even 2 to 3 hours. OR simply award less points.

I also think that most players don’t really play Cyrodiil to win. It’s the moments in battle that matter. Now I’d rather play during prime time and enjoy hour long battles for keeps, than to wake up at odd hours to capture empty map. That’s why I don’t night cap anymore.

RaikaNA

Alutora wrote: »

There will always be a faction with a night cap group. And that faction will always win. Strong night cap is the key to winning Cyrodiil.

I was part of one for two months. We would get up at 2.30 AM every day and take the whole map, from empty keeps, to outposts and resources.

We would log out about 12-13 PM, just as most players would come back from work and would be able to take over.

All of us on EU server, UK/Germany players. Not a single Aussie, or a player from vastly different time zone.

What I would suggest: during “night time”, make that the score evaluation take longer - even 2 to 3 hours. OR simply award less points.

I also think that most players don’t really play Cyrodiil to win. It’s the moments in battle that matter. Now I’d rather play during prime time and enjoy hour long battles for keeps, than to wake up at odd hours to capture empty map. That’s why I don’t night cap anymore.

Night capping should not be the only solution to win a campaign. It's poorly designed. Not everyone can stay up late to defend keeps.. not everyone can wake up at 2AM to take advantage of an empty lobby while everyone is sleeping.

My suggestion is to incorporate the KDR system in the game... The faction with the most KDR wins the campaign and those with the highest KDR earns emperor once the emp ring is completed. Scrolls should only be used to receive major passive bonuses, and nothing more. Keeps should be used as spawn points and with minor passives.

Right now with the current system... the rewards are crap for the winning faction.. if the game actually gives a decent amount of rewards like.... let's say.... 500,000 gold with 5 legendary jewelry.. I think people would take winning a faction a bit more seriously due to the incentive.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Just to add my 2 drakes.
I'm PC/NA. I'm also a chef and I do not get off work till midnight or 1am.
1AM - 5AM IS my prime time a lot of times.
Not everyone works 9 - 5.

Exeter411

From the perspective of the Aussie players, wouldn't the game be suffering from a vast population of nightcappers from North America?

WaywardArgonian

It's sadly inherent to the design and it made me stop caring about who wins the campaign.

I still get enjoyment from completing objectives by fighting hard over them and winning, but it is a bit sour when you fight until 11 or 12 in the evening in a pop-locked server, getting your hands on some scrolls and key keeps, and then having the entire evening's work undone in a matter of 20-30 minutes after your guild logs off.