PTS Update 33 - Bug Reports for Account Wide Achievements

Wolf_Eye

Kesstryl wrote: »

Add the quest Taking Up The Mantle from Markarth to that list.

Do not worry, TomofHyrule was kind enough to include this as well.

It's in between Subterranean Scholar and Witness to Prophecy

Markarth

• Exploration
  • A Friend In Deed
  • Briar Rock Ruins Explorer
  • Gloomreach Explorer
  • Master of Storms
  • Offerings to the Old Spirits
  • Weaned from Darkness
  • Dynastor Deposed
• Quests
  • Crow-Eye Savior
  • Lothid Clan Liberator
  • Nowhere Beyond Your Reach
  • Peered into the Abyss
  • A Bridge Between Kingdoms
  • Ravenwatch Ambassador
  • Reach Ritualist
  • Subterranean Scholar
  • Taking up the Mantle
  • Witness to Prophecy
  • Nighthollow Explorer
  • Protector of Markarth

Thank you, Tomofhyrule

tomofhyrule

I just thought of another few achievements that I forgot: the three World Event ones.

Exploration -> General -> Crime Pays, Give to the Poor, and Lightbringer.

Now honestly I don't mind these being account-wide, but once they're completed they'll stay in a completed state (the campfire will be burning even as the characters talk about how it needs to be lit, the merchant will remember you and complain about taking their stuff). What I'd prefer for these is for the random events to completely ignore the achievement state and always show up brand new in all circumstances.

I'm a bit disappointed that there's nothing about achievements in the patch notes today. Really hope that they consider making some of those other achievements character-specific to buy themselves time to get an elegant solution.

Once they get all quest states to refer to the quest journal instead of the achievements (that'll fix Lerisa and Khamira) and have another tracker for Delves/WBs/dolmens that works like the one they have for striking locales, then those achievements can all be moved account wide.

Also please don't forget about Melina Cassel, the Adoring Admirer, Verandis, and the Giant Cheese! Not one of the patch notes has mentioned those four achievements - they work like museums, but weren't made character-specific!

teslacoil68k

Don't forget Choixth in Murkmire either!

Seminolegirl1992

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

I have copied over an edited version of my Dark Heart of Skyrim test here below. I edited it so that the important parts of the test are mentioned below (I did not include things that I found were working properly, I only included the things that weren't working properly):

On the PTS, I have gone through the entirety of the Dark Heart of Skyrim yearlong chapter on a newly created alt.
Western Skyrim, Markarth, end Epilogue quests.

To clarify, I already had the global achievements unlocked because I had previously done this on my main.

Here is a non-spoilery breakdown of the results:

1. The Bard Quest Giver does indeed show up to the Western Skyrim afterparty, even though I could not do his quest on the alt. This suggests that the game considers the quest “permanently complete”. Even on a brand new character.
2. . ….No. The character at the end of the story epilogue does NOT show up in Arkthzand Cavern if you already have the achievement “Taking up the Mantle”. You can never see this ending part of the story ever again if you completed it once.

Here is the spoilery info:

Verandis is supposed to appear one last time to give the final epilogue in Arkthzand Cavern after the quest “Second Chances”: If you already completed this achievement ("Taking Up the Mantle" Achievement), he does not appear. So you don’t get his final thoughts and conversation ever again. I absolutely loved this conversation; it was short, it was sweet, and it added reflection and thought to the whole story that you had just gone through. It was distressing to not see him show up at all at the balcony.

I have also included below why I think this is happening and a possible fix/solution:

For the NPC who appears for that last dialogue at the end of the storyline: this suggests to me that this “ending dialogue” is directly tied to the achievement itself, much like Melina Cassel’s dialogue was directly attached to the achievement itself.
The game is using these achievements to determine whether or not a particular character has “met” you before. For “wandering NPCs”, such as Melina Cassel and the Adoring Fan, the game checks the achievement. If you have 1/5 on the achievement, for example, the game determines that you have met them before and progresses immediately to their second set of dialogue. The game makes no distinction whether the character you were currently using is the same one as before, so the result is that you can progress the conversation without the NPC distinguishing between different player characters.

In this particular case that I tested (with the yearlong Skyrim/Markarth chapter), the game is using the achievement to determine whether this character has given your particular toon his final goodbyes. And the game makes no distinction that your alt is a completely different person from the toon you used to get the achievement. Even if you went through the entire storyline a second time, you will never again get this complete ending epilogue for the yearlong chapter.

Considering that questline dialogue seems to be intact (as far as I can tell), I would guess that dialogue for quests are tied directly to the quest system and not the achievement system. So a very easy way to fix these story problems would be to simply detach these dialogues from achievements and attach them to the quest system in some manner. We’ve had quests that literally only involved running around and talking to people before, so it is not so unusual (the quest “Second Chances” itself is literally just running around talking to people).

Please...can we please fix this? I just want my fav characters back, him and Melina Cassel. Please, this is important to me.

This makes me extremely sad. I just finished the Markarth storyline and teared up at the end regarding

Verandis

and not being able to do this again on a different character down the line is just cruel. "Performance" is not worth losing dialogue or being granted recognition for things characters have never done

Katinas

It is not the players' job to find bugs when a bugged system is introduced. It is the developers' responsibility to release updates that are working or to not introduce systems with bugs left right and center.

silvereyes

SirBedevere wrote: »

I went back to Captain Kaleen and she still didn't give any options for recruiting Lerisa

Such sad irony....

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

This is the official discussion thread for the website article, "Meet The Character- Captain Kaleen".

Braving the perilous expanse of the Padomaic Ocean is akin to a stroll in the marketplace for this veteran sailor. Join us as we learn about Captain Kaleen, the steadfast skipper of the Spearhead and the subject of our next Meet the Character!

silvereyes

There appears to be another bug with map completion for world bosses, delves and world events / dolmens. Even if it's intentional for the zone guide to be filled in with account-wide activities, the map pins are still the wrong color.


You can see all the labeled zone icons are the black versions, despite all dolmens on the map and the highlighted delve and world boss being completed by this character .

Kelinmiriel

silvereyes wrote: »

There appears to be another bug with map completion for world bosses, delves and world events / dolmens. Even if it's intentional for the zone guide to be filled in with account-wide activities, the map pins are still the wrong color.

You can see all the labeled zone icons are the black versions, despite all dolmens on the map and the highlighted delve and world boss being completed by this character .

Also public dungeons. I had found that part a few days ago; sorry I hadn't reported that one yet. But here is the documentation on it, also with no addons.

I had been checking the zone guide and map accuracy on a fresh character, and had realized I had not ever completed a pub dungeon on the EU, as I primarily run NA. So I decided to run one, so I could see if my new character would also show it as completed.

I was quite surprised when it did not register as completed on zone guide or map for my existing character! (I cannot test this for a new character, as I have zero pub dungeons showing on any character, so it's not testable.)

Saieden

Kelinmiriel wrote: »

silvereyes wrote: »

There appears to be another bug with map completion for world bosses, delves and world events / dolmens. Even if it's intentional for the zone guide to be filled in with account-wide activities, the map pins are still the wrong color.

You can see all the labeled zone icons are the black versions, despite all dolmens on the map and the highlighted delve and world boss being completed by this character .

Also public dungeons. I had found that part a few days ago; sorry I hadn't reported that one yet. But here is the documentation on it, also with no addons.

I had been checking the zone guide and map accuracy on a fresh character, and had realized I had not ever completed a pub dungeon on the EU, as I primarily run NA. So I decided to run one, so I could see if my new character would also show it as completed.

I was quite surprised when it did not register as completed on zone guide or map for my existing character! (I cannot test this for a new character, as I have zero pub dungeons showing on any character, so it's not testable.)

You need to do the memento quest to complete the dungeon achievement that marks it as done on your map and zone guide.

Kelinmiriel

Saieden wrote: »

You need to do the memento quest to complete the dungeon achievement that marks it as done on your map and zone guide.

Thanks! I always thought clearing all the bosses and the group event was enough for marking it completed. I usually also do the quest and the skyshard, but hey, PTS-EU, so this is not actually real - I had just wanted to test if my tutorial character had it show up properly.

I should've done it all, but even dashing through a solo pub dungeon - after getting a pathetic under-equipped EU character up to speed enough to do one, which took longer than running it - takes longer than I had really wanted to spend. So sorry!

Kesstryl

Tarnamir in Russafeld, Summerset (notices if you’re in the Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood) will now only have this dialogue option for every alt after the Dark Brotherhood achievement is on your account. There will be no other dialogue options for good aligned alt characters ever again once a character has completed the Dark Brotherhood.

I tested this on PTS today. I created a Dark Brotherhood character and did the main DB quest. Then I logged into a character who has not done the Dark Brotherhood, who just started the Main Quest and the AD story. I ported her to Summerset and went to Tarnamir. He did indeed acknowledge my non-DB alt as a criminal. So the rumors are true that achievements will mess with quest dialogue. Please fix Tarnamir and any other NPCs that are still giving dialogue options based on achievements. These dialogue options should flag from whether an individual character has completed quests in the Dark Brotherhood or the Thieves Guild, not from the account achievement. Please don't leave these beautiful and beautifully voice acted quest NPCs in a state that contradicts individual character choices and quest completion (or lack of quest completion).

This is a screenshot of the dialogue on my non-DB alt who never set foot in the Gold Coast or Hew's Bane:

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Continuing adventures of my virgin alt~
Can confirm that the "ghost" undaunted in Hollow City pub greeted me as undaunted and commented me on returning from Vaults of Madness, which of course they haven't done.
Just FYI. If anyone at ZoS is really wondering.
Huzzah!

Kesstryl

wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »

Continuing adventures of my virgin alt~
Can confirm that the "ghost" undaunted in Hollow City pub greeted me as undaunted and commented me on returning from Vaults of Madness, which of course they haven't done.
Just FYI. If anyone at ZoS is really wondering.
Huzzah!

I'm going to add stuff that Ilsabet found on live, because these bugs are destroying immersion. I don't know if ZOS is reading this anymore, but these are definitely things that made it to live from PTS and really needs to be looked into:

Ilsabet wrote: »

Today Captain Medusa Herring is taking a break from pirating and being generally lazy to see whether any random townsfolk wish to give her credit for heroic deeds she had nothing to do with. PC/NA, live.

The Daggerfall town crier is making a big deal about a plague in Camlorn that Medusa is pretty sure someone else has already taken care of:

(She does not, however, appear to be terribly concerned about the large mostly-naked man punching local residents.)

Medusa was hoping this fellow would offer to buy her an ale, but instead he seems to be complaining about that friendly dog she met earlier:

So that was all fairly disappointing. But then she ran across this drunk ghost, who thought Medusa had vanquished a dungeon she's pretty sure she can't even go to yet:

Come to think of it, Medusa hasn't even run across those Undaunted swabs yet. She should probably do that sometime.

There was also a fellow in Daggerfall who thought Medusa was the one who brought those Pellingare brats to justice, but Medusa is pretty sure she hasn't been in those particular sewers.


So it seems like group dungeon achievements are triggering ambient comments, even if the character hasn't completed the dungeon(s) themselves, but at least with these particular zone quests, the commentary is based on quest completion rather than any related achievements other characters may have earned.

wenchmore420b14_ESO

Well, since we were told to post relies to this thread as they other threads were closed, here is my response I copied from another thread. Sorry if it is too long.

@ZOS_MattFiror @ZOS_RichLambert
Why are you ignoring thousands of feedback responses, heartfelt write ups and LONG time ESO community members who are add on creators, forum contributors and people who have supported ESO from 2013? 95+ pages of WHY not to destroy the play styles and re-playability and yet crickets.
We have seen a FEW "we will fix this and that", but story lines are still broken, dialogs not responding right, zone maps a mess, etc.
As for me, I was waiting to see if ANYONE at ZoS would "man up" and interact with the community before March 25th.
To see if we got ANY kind of compassion or feedback from the devs. But we were greeted with more crickets.

I used March 25th because that is the date my yearly ESO+ subscription expires.
87 uninterrupted months of subscribing to ESO. 13,000hrs of gameplay. I am GM of a guild established 04/13/2014.
And I cancelled my sub today. This is the saddest day of my life in Tamriel in the 20+years I have spent loving and respecting Zenimax Media and Bethesda. But that respect, that faith and that love of your decisions is now no more. Just as ZoS's respect for us is no more.

Yes I will still play the new chapter as I pre-ordered it. I will still log on to bid on trader for my guild as my guildies still mean more to me that we do to ZoS. My play style has already changed as my alts are no longer my characters, but just a tool of my account. Instead of 2-6+hrs a day 7 days a week, I log in for maybe 3-4 hours a week. No more buying crown crates or crowns as I have no need for any cosmetics as they were for my alts, which have had their playstyles destroyed.
As far as the 11th hour "performance" claims, please read the many, many responses of those who do coding and IT work as a living and how they called out the inconsistencies of this as a "good reason" to delete all our alt data.

The fact of after ignoring any communication they try to distract us with a "surprise event" feels like a slap in the face and then putting a sale on character slots is nothing less than a very bad joke.

I give my hats off to @ZOS_Kevin and @ZOS_GinaBruno for having to be in the middle and we know that this is not your fault and you both do a amazing job and thank you for all you do. The buck stops at Matt and Rich.
Perhaps they will gain our trust and respect again some day. One can hope.
Just my 2 drakes~
Huzzah and here's your fishy stick!

“When the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, they end up running the companies. The product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products.”

_Steve Jobs (The Lost Interview)

Kesstryl

From the PTS 8.0 patch notes:

Taking Up the Mantle: Count Verandis Ravenwatch will now properly show up and you can have the conversation with him after completing Markarth's capper quests if you've already completed the achievement on another character.
Note: This does mean you can have this conversation again on the character that initially completed the achievement.

I'm actually highly surprised, and very pleased that Taking Up The Mantle was fixed. Thank you ZOS, for seeing the need to have this epilogue be per character, and letting us re-experience it again on alts. It's a worthy ending and should be there for us at the end of the story arc, and I'm grateful you gave it back to us. I'm definitely going to have the conversation again on my original character who got the achievement, for he's like a father to her.

Old Wounds: One of Tarnamir's conversations no longer assumes you've actually joined the Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood unless you've completed those quests.

Thank you for fixing Tarnamir also. I'm grateful to see these things in the patch notes. I'm feeling much more hopeful that you are looking at the bug reports and feedback. Communication about future fixes for these things would have really gone much further if you had given it sooner, but I'm grateful for what I'm seeing in today's patch. Next time just be open and communicate, you would have saved some heartache for your players.

Could you please also look into these other things that still need fixing as outlined in this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/600993/results-of-account-wide-achievements-testing-on-live-npc-interactions/p1

I'll copy paste the broken things here as per @Ilsabet


Conclusively found to be working improperly:

• Undaunted ghost in the Hollow City tavern addresses level 31 alt as Undaunted who has completed Vaults of Madness, even though she has not unlocked the Undaunted skill line and has not completed Vaults of Madness.
• Alts are not able to eat mammoth cheese at giant camps in Western Skyrim after the "Giant Cheese Connoisseur" achievement is obtained.
• As reported here, character who has never been Emperor/Empress can claim to have been such in White-Gold Tower.
• As reported here, the NPC involved in a post-quest conversation after the Dark Heart of Skyrim epilogue does not appear for alts after the "Taking up the Mantle" achievement is obtained.[/s]
• As reported here, the NPC involved in a post-quest conversation after the Season of the Dragon epilogue does not appear for alts after the "A Hero's Song" achievement is obtained.
• As reported here, Melina Cassel may appear in the Reach after the "A Friend in Deed" achievement is obtained, but her conversations cannot be repeated on alts. When she does appear after the achievement has been obtained, the "E" prompt to interact with her doesn't do anything. (As clarified here, she already behaved that way for characters who already had the achievement, but now this behavior is account-wide after the achievement has been granted.)
• As reported here, the city of Orsinium immediately appears to be fully built-up for alts new to the zone, rather than being built up progressively as each character goes through the questline.

• Tarnamir in Russafeld, Summerset (notices if you’re in the Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood)

Not tested:

• Random encounters such as Choixth and the Adoring Admirer. (Melina Cassel has been tested.)

KMarble

I was so happy for you when I read the patch notes, @Kesstryl .