How do I get past this business model?

Kwoung

Amottica wrote: »

Every MMORPG survives due to a constant influx of new players even with long-term players that stick around for years.

I am aware of that, my point is ESO takes the turnover to an extreme I have not before experienced in a AAA MMO. Also, the new content in many other <older> games gave many weeks/months of new adventures, I finish most new ESO content in mere days of casual playing, outside of trials which I don't do. At least with games like BDO, they are very upfront about dipping into your wallet for everything, whereas ESO really isn't, which is probably what bothers me the most about this business model... along with finding possible new friends and losing them constantly.

I have lost count of how many cool folks I have met, played with for a short time and have lost to the ether in short order here. Having played MMO's since their inception, from my experience this is an exception more than a rule. I believe it is also why they don't really listen to and fix most of the issues brought up by the long standing player base, we are not their target audience.

SilverBride

Kwoung wrote: »

I am aware of that, my point is ESO takes the turnover to an extreme I have not before experienced in a AAA MMO.

I've played in the same guild for quite awhile now and there are many members who have been around the entire time. I haven't seen any more turnover here than any other game.

Kwoung

SilverBride wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

I am aware of that, my point is ESO takes the turnover to an extreme I have not before experienced in a AAA MMO.

I've played in the same guild for quite awhile now and there are many members who have been around the entire time. I haven't seen any more turnover here than any other game.

Yes, there are many players I have been playing with for years as well, just pointing out that unlike other games I have played in the past, they are the exception here, not the rule. Out of a 500 member guild, I would say maybe 50 are long term, a mere 10%, whereas in most other games we maintained over 50% (sometimes 75%) retention of members easily. ESO just doesn't seem to be designed to keep the majority of players around and interested long term.

I am sure others experience will vary, it always does, just using my experience from the numerous guilds I have happened to be in, most of which have been really good guilds with lots of activities going on and such.

SeaGtGruff

Kwoung wrote: »

I feel like monetization in ESO is directly connected to their customer retention model, which is near non-existent. Yes, yes, many folks play ESO long term, I do not deny that, but that is because they like the game and choose to do so, not because ZOS is actively encouraging it. ESO basically works around a constant influx of new players coming in, leveling up to some point, using the crown store along the way so their toon doesn't look like complete garbage, then leaving.

I think ZOS would be absolutely over the Moon if they had greater customer retention. I think every business wants to keep their existing customers while also attracting new customers. No company that wants to stay in business wants to drive their existing customers away just so they can get an influx of different customers, because sooner or later there won't be as many new customers, and then eventually almost no new customers, simply because people aren't being born fast enough and then maturing fast enough to keep that kind of business model afloat for long.

If you look at some of the things that have been added to the game lately-- companions, the upcoming card game, and the upcoming account-wide achievements, for instance-- they're things players have been asking for. Some of the reactions in the forums have been along the lines of "Literally nobody asked for this!" but that's not true. I don't know what percentage of the players were asking for them-- maybe it was just a tiny minority-- but no matter what percentage of the playerbase it was, it was pretty loud and ongoing as far as threads in the forums are concerned. Whether or not these things were, or are going to be, implemented in exactly the ways that those players were hoping is another matter. The point is, ZOS heard them, and ZOS tried to accommodate their requests.

spartaxoxo

Kwoung wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Kwoung wrote: »

I am aware of that, my point is ESO takes the turnover to an extreme I have not before experienced in a AAA MMO.

I've played in the same guild for quite awhile now and there are many members who have been around the entire time. I haven't seen any more turnover here than any other game.

Yes, there are many players I have been playing with for years as well, just pointing out that unlike other games I have played in the past, they are the exception here, not the rule. Out of a 500 member guild, I would say maybe 50 are long term, a mere 10%, whereas in most other games we maintained over 50% (sometimes 75%) retention of members easily. ESO just doesn't seem to be designed to keep the majority of players around and interested long term.

I am sure others experience will vary, it always does, just using my experience from the numerous guilds I have happened to be in, most of which have been really good guilds with lots of activities going on and such.

I think this is the financial reason why they haven't given us a vet overland, tbh. They know that a large portion of their playerbase just goes and plays the story and then leaves until the next story drop. They are online like a week for the entire year.

Amottica

Kwoung wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Every MMORPG survives due to a constant influx of new players even with long-term players that stick around for years.

I am aware of that, my point is ESO takes the turnover to an extreme I have not before experienced in a AAA MMO. Also, the new content in many other <older> games gave many weeks/months of new adventures, I finish most new ESO content in mere days of casual playing, outside of trials which I don't do. At least with games like BDO, they are very upfront about dipping into your wallet for everything, whereas ESO really isn't, which is probably what bothers me the most about this business model... along with finding possible new friends and losing them constantly.

I have lost count of how many cool folks I have met, played with for a short time and have lost to the ether in short order here. Having played MMO's since their inception, from my experience this is an exception more than a rule. I believe it is also why they don't really listen to and fix most of the issues brought up by the long standing player base, we are not their target audience.

We are not aware of what the turnover rate in ESO is and that is especially in comparison to other comparable titles. We can only see what happens within the small number of players we interact with.

My point here is that we have no idea how close or far our speculation in these matters are from reality.

Ragnarok0130

I get what the OP is saying and agree and I've been playing since Beta. My biggest grip is how out of sync the monetization system is regarding pricing. Items purchased with crowns such as armory slots only apply to one character...seriously? For example in SWTOR if I purchase something like an outfit slot with cartel coins (their crowns) it applies to all characters, but if you buy it with credits (their gold) it only applies to that character. That's balanced ESO really isn't IMO.

The total crown pricing itself is rather high too when you look at items like furniture/mundus stone/armory slots etc. That being said Zenimax only does it because we let them get away with it by actually buying things at those prices - myself included.

etchedpixels

Abnaxos wrote: »

for the gold to buy a nice house was spoiled. The first thing you do when moving into your new home: make it warm. From the wiki, I learned that the fire isn't craftable, it's only available from the store (WTF).

You buy two logs from a seller, craft a breton torch, embed one in the other. But yes it's classic nickel and dime of the naiive.

The game is drowning in monetisation.

You should try some of the alternatives if you think this one is bad. A lot of the MMO market is going to eventually implode as it turns entirely into a psychological warfare exercise in extracting revenue.

karekiz

DarkWombat wrote: »

I have 1,500 plus hours into this game. I also sometimes play World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 2 and Lord of the Rings Online.

Having played many games this is by far one of the best and most fair pay models ever. You can play entirely B2P and you aren't restricted. Most other games you literally can't play or they have some heavy penalties for being F2P

EQ1 is one of the most restrictive. To put it into ESO terms, it would be like having the game lock you at 160 CP. But hey you can buy 25 CP unlocks at a time for 5.00 USD! All perfected gear would be not equip able etc.

As far as craft bag is concerned make a fake guild. Yup. You get 500 extra bank slots to store things in. Thats what I did.

etchedpixels

Amottica wrote: »

We are not aware of what the turnover rate in ESO is and that is especially in comparison to other comparable titles.

You actually can't tell anything from the numbers of people you see around because the game is instanced, with a maximum population per instance. If it wasn't the Alik'r dolmen would be truely insane. Only the PVP zones are not instanced this way but explicitly population locked. Most of the time there really are only two instances of Imperial City in existence with nothing but 2 gankers in each 8)

The steam data is a subset but I think it's big enough to be fairly meaningful.

From SteamSpy.

Playtime total: 139:33 (average) 27:42 (median)

That's an awful lot of 'revolving door' players and also suggests a lot of 'did the story, left' casual players.

Steam also gives concurrent player data for the percentage of PC players who bought it that way.

Leftover_Pizza

The 'if you want nice things, pay up' approach is rubbing me the wrong way more and more these days. Just spending money to buy them, or gamble on crates to get them just doesn't satisfy me at all and takes away the incentive to play the game and earn the nice stuff by putting in effort, other than the waiting game. .
I love a lot of things about the game, but the money grabbing is something I more or less despise. Mounts, clothing, armor sets, appearance items, all non basic things are stuck behind a pay wall.

I love doing the grind for the nice stuff, if they have a chance to drop either in dungeons, delves or trials. I love the hunt for special mounts, outfits and other non basic items, but this game has close to none of that.
Playing games that do not feel rewarding for obtaining a rare mount is not my thing, really. Nor is paying a monthly fee for a few QoL items, like the crafting bag.

Money is no issue, but the lack of a rewarding experience is. I've played eso for 5 months now, daily. Leveled 6 classes to lvl50CP665, but without any hunt for the good stuff, I've played less and less each day. Last week I didn't do much more than the daily/weekly endeavors and logging each character to do the riding skill training and then play some other game instead of eso. I just don't like the business model.