How do I get past this business model?

AJones43865

SilverBride wrote: »

AJones43865 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

AJones43865 wrote: »

My solution is to stop giving ZOS money for anything until they actually fix cyrodiil.

All that will do is take away money that could be put into fixing this issue.

If that were true the seven years of paying for ESO+ would have bought us new hardware by now. They would have made the investment five years ago when this issue became undeniable.

No reason to continue to pay for a product that no longer does what it says it does on the box.

SilverBride wrote: »

If you don't agree with something don't take part in it. But to continue to play a game while claiming it's unplayable or has shady business practices sends a very different message.

I paid ESO+ for over seven years. Performance got worse when I was paying. I'm going to try not paying and see if that works now.

Amottica

As for the business model, I’d suggest getting over it as cash shops are here to stay. Subscriptions has held steady at $15 USD for over a decade ans it’s unrealistic to think the costs are not risen during that time. Besides, we are talking mounts, nothing that improves gameplay.


As for buying the chapter and finding the story continues in the next zone DLC. Your paying a subscription so you’ll have access to that next zone dlc. Besides, we have know this is the cadence for years. Don’t like it then don’t buy the Expansion. You’ll get access

In the end, if you don’t like all this then that’s your prerogative and we all respect that. I doubt it’ll change anything with Zos as the game is successful as it is.

Aertew

DarkWombat wrote: »

I have 1,500 plus hours into this game. I also sometimes play World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 2 and Lord of the Rings Online.

I have a couple friends and also my son who dabble with ESO from time to time and we all agree the whole payment model just rubs us the wrong way. I try to tell myself if I pay a monthly subscription like WoW I get all the content minus any expansions but something about ESO still rubs me the wrong way.

• I don't like all these mounts and cool items behind loot boxes.
• I don't like artificial "LIMITED TIME" pop ups when I log in to create fear of missing out.
• I don't like buying an expansion like the Skyrim one, and only getting to play half of the story and find out there is another half that is not included in the expansion.
• I don't like it how expansions and their land masses and content have gotten smaller and smaller and the content seems to be getting worse not better.
• I don't like it how damage done is based on total mana or stamina, a system so bad that no MMO in history has used it before and the only one who uses it is the one universe that actually had the most hybrids in its single player games, so this system actually hurts that!
• I don't like it that you can't purchase a craft bag, and it stirs resentment every-time I play. Something like a crafting bag should not be the number one reason to get a subscription and designing this as a negative to get you to subscribe feels bad.

Whats funny is I actually like the combat, I like the graphics and UI with addons. I love the music and love being in Tamriel.
Its just when I log in, I get mad. I have to physically try to play the game and not think about it.

How do I get past this or is there even a way?

You can sub like WoW where you get everything but the expansions. Now you don't have to worry about the 3rd thing. Loot boxes you can get with endeavors but I usually try to ignore the gambling stuff.
The content has just gotten more repetive, not worse really. Greymoor, Blackwood and Elswheyr had a very similar story line and it got stale after Greymoor. I think Blackwood is suprisingly large.

The abilities that scale with stamina or magicka, which ever is higher is a bit weird but I don't pay attention to it alot.

You can earn chests through writs and there are 3 60 slot chests and 3 30 slot chests. Take everything from your bank into these and you should have space for crafting materials.

With the ESO sub you also get 1,500 crowns. Equivalent to $15 of currency to buy DLC, expansions, or whatever you want.

There are also the smaller things like double bank space, 10% more gold and exp. Ect.

AlexanderDeLarge

SilverBride wrote: »

DarkWombat wrote: »

I don't like it that you can't purchase a craft bag, and it stirs resentment every-time I play. Something like a crafting bag should not be the number one reason to get a subscription and designing this as a negative to get you to subscribe feels bad.

As a subscriber I would be resentful if they did sell the crafting bag to non subscribers.

But as nice as this bag is, it's not the only reason to subscribe. Double bank storage, double bag space and double housing furniture slots, plus free access to all DLCs and free crowns are also very nice perks.

As someone who prefers to own the content I play outright, I am resentful of the crafting bag and all the other various ESO+ benefits that were introduced after I had already purchased numerous DLCs and expansions. If ZOS is going to allow me to buy DLCs and chapters with crowns and cash, I should be able to purchase something as important as the crafting bag in the crown store as a permanent unlock too.

SilverBride wrote: »

A convenience item isn't necessary to gameplay. It has no impact on how successful a player can be.

What would be predatory is if they only offered certain sets for example to subscribers, or other such items that do affect a player's success.

Calling the crafting bag a convenience item is the understatement of the century. Without it, you might as well not even engage with crafting and gathering nodes period.

spartaxoxo

AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »

Calling the crafting bag a convenience item is the understatement of the century. Without it, you might as well not even engage with crafting and gathering nodes period.

And it's also the most accessible way to engage with the player economy by a country mile.

LightningWitch

DarkWombat wrote: »

How do I get past this or is there even a way?

I don't know if there's a way for you to get past this because it comes down to changing how you see things.
If you cannot do this, then perhaps you should just walk away from the game because it's not going to change.

When I see the FOMO message, I just call ZoS a few choice words I cannot repeat here, then close out the window reminding myself how this company treats its own subscribers.

I'm better than ZoS' attempts at psychological manipulation.

I've known people who lost their spouses, jobs, and homes because of the abusive nature of this industry.

Everything ZoS does is a calculated attempt at drawing more revenue from its player base. It is a business, after all.
However, the way the company goes about doing it insults me, and it should insult everyone who plays this game.

Unfortunately, statistics do not lie, and it's well known a small player base will support a game like this financially.

I've met some of these players. One player I met has spent well over $10,000 on this game, and they've been playing for only 3 years. When I ask why, they say it's an "investment". Sadly, it's not their investment, though any attempt to explain it to them upsets them.

The day these servers shut down, that investment amounts to a whopping $0. That's not how investments work, but I guess some lessons in life have to be learned the hard way. I can only take pity when they realize this. Thousands. Wasted. And for what? A damn mount or trinket that'll get replaced when the new set comes out.

This psychological warfare is very effective, and it's also why it's commonplace in nearly every game, er, service now. It's disheartening, and it's getting worse.

It has different techniques, from a FOMO message, or the more abusive "daily pass" which forces a daily log in or else players will miss out on the "better" rewards that lock out if they miss a day. Truly horrendous attempts at manipulating people instead of providing them what they want at a reasonable price.

There *are* good people behind this game, doing what they're told to. I remind myself they're doing a job, even if they don't like some of the things they're asked to do.

My support of this team is capped at the subscription. Anything above this, in my opinion, means it's going to executives who do not deserve a single penny more.

And the executives damn well had better remember this.

If the company wants my money, then perhaps they should stop being magnanimous a.... oh, had to stop myself there... and just offer what we want for a fair price. To hell with this Foney Munny™ crap. Just crystal clear pricing.

It's not that hard and they should drop this manipulative BS.

Until they do...my Crown collection grows.

Cadbury

Personally, I feel all the anger and vitriol over the crown crates should now be focused on keeping NFTs out of ESO, but that's a topic for another day.

At the end of the day, none of this matters. Zos is gonna do what Zos is gonna do. Either you show support or don't. Whatever, it doesn't matter.

shadyjane62

I feel as the OP does. In two months I will be without the year sub ever. I have the sub has diminishing return for me as I am tired of crafting and collecting. I intend to just play the quest game. And the pvp should it ever get fixt.

Jusey1

DarkWombat wrote: »

I don't like it how expansions and their land masses and content have gotten smaller and smaller and the content seems to be getting worse not better.

After just finishing the base game and Wrothgar... I think I now understand why this is so. It seems like the original ESO devteam had a plan only up to Summerset. Literally everything throughout the stories from Vvardenfell to Summerset was very obviously pre-planned and set-up in the base game (there's a lot of hints, references, and major connections throughout everything. The first four DLCs were probably just a side thing while they are finalizing the story). From then onward, their yearly adventures seem to be heavily base on nostalgia more so than story starting with dragons, then Skyrim again, and Oblivion...

I honestly just want us to go back to the Daedric War's storyline because we were left on a cliffhanger after Summerset. Like, I am still honestly curious about how our actions at Summerset actually did since there is an implication at the ending that Meridia is up to something, and I really want to get back to that... Instead, we had to get sidetracked by Tharn's stupidity, vampires, and Mehrunes Dagon's "Oblivion Gates test" ordeal. The last two really got on my nerve personally. That whole vampire storyline was just meh and Dagon's testing his Oblivion Gates was very unnecessary. He already made plenty of Oblivion Gates in the base game, he should've already done his testings by now while we were beating up Molag Bal... Blackwood's story feels very unnecessary and just a side attraction... Like, I get it, Dagon is cool and all. He made an awesome appearance in Oblivion and succeeded ultimately, but we already went through that story as a whole. No need to go into a story of "Well, here's him testing for that" yada yada. Great. But I am more curious about Meridia right now since in theory, we basically gave her infinity power in Summerset and I want to see if that is true or not. I want to see what Meridia has been doing ever since we basically gave her the crystal tower...

SammyKhajit

It’s not a perfect game and there are things that need to be improved.

But Sammy makes the rationalisation of:

1. This is the only game Sammy is playing
2. $139 works out to be 2 latte plus tips per month. Sammy quit caffeine several dozen moons ago
3. Endeavour allows this one to accumulate items, including a cute senche mount last year
4. Ingame, it’s fun to see what other players are doing/wearing/dueling/role playing. Part of the ESO fun is people watching
5. The lore
6. It’s fun to be a khajit

newtinmpls

DarkWombat wrote: »

you should not feel that way

1-I disagree with the idea of telling people how they should feel.

2-I would encourage anyone tempted to do such a thing to get over themselves

3-I sub on my main account because I like certain bennies. I don't sub on my other accounts because I don't like those bennies enough to pay for them more than once.

ajkb78

DarkWombat wrote: »

I have 1,500 plus hours into this game. I also sometimes play World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 2 and Lord of the Rings Online.

I have a couple friends and also my son who dabble with ESO from time to time and we all agree the whole payment model just rubs us the wrong way. I try to tell myself if I pay a monthly subscription like WoW I get all the content minus any expansions but something about ESO still rubs me the wrong way.

• I don't like all these mounts and cool items behind loot boxes.
• I don't like artificial "LIMITED TIME" pop ups when I log in to create fear of missing out.
• I don't like buying an expansion like the Skyrim one, and only getting to play half of the story and find out there is another half that is not included in the expansion.
• I don't like it how expansions and their land masses and content have gotten smaller and smaller and the content seems to be getting worse not better.
• I don't like it how damage done is based on total mana or stamina, a system so bad that no MMO in history has used it before and the only one who uses it is the one universe that actually had the most hybrids in its single player games, so this system actually hurts that!
• I don't like it that you can't purchase a craft bag, and it stirs resentment every-time I play. Something like a crafting bag should not be the number one reason to get a subscription and designing this as a negative to get you to subscribe feels bad.

Whats funny is I actually like the combat, I like the graphics and UI with addons. I love the music and love being in Tamriel.
Its just when I log in, I get mad. I have to physically try to play the game and not think about it.

How do I get past this or is there even a way?

The only things you can buy are either appearance or convenience. You never need to touch the crown store to complete any achievement in the game. If you don't like paying for cosmetics, just don't engage with that part of the game.


As for the subscription model, [snip]. ESO is not like Donkey Kong, it's a vastly complex game with ongoing content releases and infrastructure / bandwidth costs, so a subscription makes perfect sense. I do sort of wish they bumped up the ESO+ cost by a small amount and included chapters in ESO+, but overall some form of subscription system is kind of important. And even there, if you don't want to engage with ESO+ you can just buy each dlc as a one-off purchase.

[Minor edit for bait.]

Destai

DarkWombat wrote: »

I have 1,500 plus hours into this game. I also sometimes play World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 2 and Lord of the Rings Online.

I have a couple friends and also my son who dabble with ESO from time to time and we all agree the whole payment model just rubs us the wrong way. I try to tell myself if I pay a monthly subscription like WoW I get all the content minus any expansions but something about ESO still rubs me the wrong way.

• I don't like all these mounts and cool items behind loot boxes. I do wish they'd add more earnable cosmetic content. At the very least, racial mounts.
• I don't like artificial "LIMITED TIME" pop ups when I log in to create fear of missing out.Agreed. I don't like the pressure. Especially as a subscriber, I'd like the option to turn this off. It feels a bit...needy? I've played well over 2000 hours and I know it's there, I just wish it wasn't smacking me in the face. Additionally, I wish they'd just leave things in the store so I can buy things when I want. They're leaving money on the table.
• I don't like buying an expansion like the Skyrim one, and only getting to play half of the story and find out there is another half that is not included in the expansion. I think many players have maligned the yearly release model. I'd happily buy a yearly package if they offered it regularly, but those seem at a lag. Again, it's over monetized.
• I don't like it how expansions and their land masses and content have gotten smaller and smaller and the content seems to be getting worse not better. I'm not sure I agree with this. Western Skyrim was huge - it was two zones. I personally don't like the multi-zone zones, but I don't think it's fair to say they're getting smaller. I'd have to see actual square miles or something. They don't feel smaller to me, just more sliced up.
• I don't like it how damage done is based on total mana or stamina, a system so bad that no MMO in history has used it before and the only one who uses it is the one universe that actually had the most hybrids in its single player games, so this system actually hurts that!
• I don't like it that you can't purchase a craft bag, and it stirs resentment every-time I play. Something like a crafting bag should not be the number one reason to get a subscription and designing this as a negative to get you to subscribe feels bad. They need subscribers for revenue. I'd rather they incentivize this over the continual onslaught of gambling boxes.

Whats funny is I actually like the combat, I like the graphics and UI with addons. I love the music and love being in Tamriel.
Its just when I log in, I get mad. I have to physically try to play the game and not think about it.

How do I get past this or is there even a way?

Personally, I don't think it's something you should convince yourself to play. If you don't like the game's business model, then perhaps the game isn't for you. I don't like the FOMOs or $100 houses, but the game needs to make money to keep running. It's just business. There are lots of earnable items in the game that take a little bit of work. I get the frustration, but don't put yourself through psychological hoops to play a game.

Cardhwion

DarkWombat wrote: »

I have 1,500 plus hours into this game. I also sometimes play World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 2 and Lord of the Rings Online.

I have a couple friends and also my son who dabble with ESO from time to time and we all agree the whole payment model just rubs us the wrong way. I try to tell myself if I pay a monthly subscription like WoW I get all the content minus any expansions but something about ESO still rubs me the wrong way.

• I don't like all these mounts and cool items behind loot boxes.
  
  Untrue, there are mounts you can buy (horses) for gold, and others that you can earn by participating in Events.
  
• I don't like artificial "LIMITED TIME" pop ups when I log in to create fear of missing out.
  Ignore them, like you ignore the adds on your newspaper page
  
• I don't like buying an expansion like the Skyrim one, and only getting to play half of the story and find out there is another half that is not included in the expansion.
  
  I guess you are not a sub? Well, that's your problem. With a sub, you only buy the chapter.
  
• I don't like it how expansions and their land masses and content have gotten smaller and smaller and the content seems to be getting worse not better.
  
  Content is a matter of taste. I liked the last expacs quite well.
  
• I don't like it how damage done is based on total mana or stamina, a system so bad that no MMO in history has used it before and the only one who uses it is the one universe that actually had the most hybrids in its single player games, so this system actually hurts that!
  
  There are working hybrid builds in ESO, look up Hack the Minotaur, he has good guides. Otherwise we are back to preference and this has nothing to do with the business model.
  
• I don't like it that you can't purchase a craft bag, and it stirs resentment every-time I play. Something like a crafting bag should not be the number one reason to get a subscription and designing this as a negative to get you to subscribe feels bad.
  
  honestly, I am glad that at least the crafting bag is locked to subs only. F2P players should not have all the advantages in a game, there need to be things for people willing to support the game long term.

Whats funny is I actually like the combat, I like the graphics and UI with addons. I love the music and love being in Tamriel.
Its just when I log in, I get mad. I have to physically try to play the game and not think about it.

How do I get past this or is there even a way?

How do you get past this: stop being cheap and sub. A number of your problems will vanish. The rest, especially the Mount stuff, is a vanity question.

RisenEclipse

I'm going to try and put my two cents on here about this:


1) don't like all these mounts and cool items behind loot boxes.

- With the new currency, this isn't a problem anymore. In fact, I feel like this is the ONLY way to get things in those crown crates. Maybe my rng somehow got shittier, but it seems to me the drop rate is way lower since the whole seals. Before I'd at least spend 50$ on crates and get SOMETHING good. Now it seems I barely get a few pets and mostly repeat drops after that. Not even a mount. So I'm only using the seals now for crate items.


2) I don't like artificial "LIMITED TIME" pop ups when I log in to create fear of missing out.

- Since playing for a few years now, I've pretty much ignored those messages. They don't bother me at all. I know they'll come back eventually. So it's not a lost cause if I miss out. Even if it takes a few years to do so. l can see how those messages can make someone anxious and want to buy everything up right away. Preying on a consumers anxiety shouldn't be a thing, but is a popular business practice sadly...


3) I don't like buying an expansion like the Skyrim one, and only getting to play half of the story and find out there is another half that is not included in the expansion.

I do believe it was the Elsweyr chapter that first did the whole, locking the final few quests away in the last dlc unless you also competed the chapter. I'd rather they didn't do that. But the stories separated between multiple chapters and dlc contents throughout the year I don't mind. I mean they do have to make money too. And I'd rather see content throughout the whole year then one big expansion, and that's it for the year. So long as the dlcs are of a decent size for the price they are asking.


4)I don't like it how expansions and their land masses and content have gotten smaller and smaller and the content seems to be getting worse not better.

I agree the content has been getting worse. But imo I really liked the new Deadlands zone and what they did with that, so I'm hesitantly optimistic for the future. I'm also willing to allow some leeway for my opinion considering the pandemic and how that has effected their capacity for content creation. However, also imo eso has a ton of things to do. I'm in love with housing and decorating. And collecting things for my sticker book. So I do enjoy eso, even if the updates are not as wow inspiring as they were before.


5) I don't like it how damage done is based on total mana or stamina, a system so bad that no MMO in history has used it before and the only one who uses it is the one universe that actually had the most hybrids in its single player games, so this system actually hurts that!

- not touching this one. I'm super casual and the best I've done is vet maelstrom lol so I'm not really a source of expertise on if combat is good, bad, or needs improvement for this game vs other games. But you did mention later that you liked the combat, which is a bit counter to what this point you made was.


6) I don't like it that you can't purchase a craft bag, and it stirs resentment every-time I play. Something like a crafting bag should not be the number one reason to get a subscription and designing this as a negative to get you to subscribe feels bad.

- I'm not upset at all by the craft bag situation. Along with everything else in the subscription it absolutely makes it worth the price. Without it, the value of the sub vs how much money you spend on it wouldn't be as great. I can see how it would upset someone who doesn't want a sub. But if the craft bag was taken out of the sub, then people would want the free dlcs taken out, or the extra housing furniture space. A sub is meant to give you awesome rewards that someone not paying wouldn't get. I feel like the sub actually rewards you for spending the extra money in the game. Not like other games where having a sub does barely anything to set you apart from other players. So I'd prefer to keep it as is.


Anyway that's my two cents! Again this is just my opinion, not a declaration on what is absolutely true. But my advice to you on how to get past it, is focus on what you love about the game. Frankly, I don't like cyrodil pvp. So I stay far, far, away from it and ignore the entire section of my achievement page for it. I do housing and mindless dungeons lol Just come in game, do what you love to do in the game, and if you see something that bothers you, ignore it and continue on. I know it's pretty weak advice, but it's the best I got.

Vulkunne

DarkWombat wrote: »

I have 1,500 plus hours into this game. I also sometimes play World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 2 and Lord of the Rings Online.

I have a couple friends and also my son who dabble with ESO from time to time and we all agree the whole payment model just rubs us the wrong way. I try to tell myself if I pay a monthly subscription like WoW I get all the content minus any expansions but something about ESO still rubs me the wrong way.

• I don't like all these mounts and cool items behind loot boxes.
• I don't like artificial "LIMITED TIME" pop ups when I log in to create fear of missing out.
• I don't like buying an expansion like the Skyrim one, and only getting to play half of the story and find out there is another half that is not included in the expansion.
• I don't like it how expansions and their land masses and content have gotten smaller and smaller and the content seems to be getting worse not better.
• I don't like it how damage done is based on total mana or stamina, a system so bad that no MMO in history has used it before and the only one who uses it is the one universe that actually had the most hybrids in its single player games, so this system actually hurts that!
• I don't like it that you can't purchase a craft bag, and it stirs resentment every-time I play. Something like a crafting bag should not be the number one reason to get a subscription and designing this as a negative to get you to subscribe feels bad.

Whats funny is I actually like the combat, I like the graphics and UI with addons. I love the music and love being in Tamriel.
Its just when I log in, I get mad. I have to physically try to play the game and not think about it.

How do I get past this or is there even a way?

ZOS was released back in April 2014 I believe. So its kind of an older game. The thing you need to understand is over time they've setup things to work a certain way based on their reasoning ok. It might not always make sense to us however ZOS wants to keep ESO around as long as people are playing it yet ZOS isn't going to augment ESO into a more modern style game, that would include their business model as well.

I completely understand your frustration. However I would just play the game while its around and you can always say if nothing else, you enjoyed your time with ESO. There are some things about ESO I don't like either, like how staves sit so high up on my back when I put the weapon way, some Bow quivers are so far away from chest models they cast their own shadow and I think those green alchemy pots look tacky as hell on the True Sworn Medium and Heavy Chests.

Again, nothing I can do but deal with it because none of this is ever going to change.

Mandragora

For me endavours are much bigger problem atm - I feared it will be because it always destroyed fun for me in any game where I saw it, and after half a year I came to this conclusion:
1. If endavours will be easy, it will devalue cosmetics, if it will be grindy, it will devalue your time, so both options are bad for me.
2. it damages your gameplay directly by making you feel like it was wasted on something you didn't actively choose to do.
3. endavours remove immersive daily content from the game because it forces you to grind for optional crates content instead.
4. it is free to play mechanic at its core, it is meant to be grindy. If it is not grindy, the value of cosmetics is lowered, so are money of players who would like to pay for something directly and not by wasted time, thus getting less for their money from the shop. Also by offering some cosmetic that way, many other ways of distributing cosmetics into the game may be closed.
5. it forces you more or less to do content you don't like, you don't feel like doing or you fear it may be the problem in the future, so you have constantly bad mood, on the other hand if you would tell yourself to ignore it, you have bad mood that there is nothing in the game for you.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

SilverBride wrote: »

Ksariyu wrote: »

Vote with your wallet. If you don't agree with something, don't pay for it.

If you don't agree with something don't take part in it. But to continue to play a game while claiming it's unplayable or has shady business practices sends a very different message.

Addictio

Destai wrote: »

DarkWombat wrote: »

I have 1,500 plus hours into this game. I also sometimes play World of Warcraft, Guild Wars 2 and Lord of the Rings Online.

I have a couple friends and also my son who dabble with ESO from time to time and we all agree the whole payment model just rubs us the wrong way. I try to tell myself if I pay a monthly subscription like WoW I get all the content minus any expansions but something about ESO still rubs me the wrong way.

• I don't like all these mounts and cool items behind loot boxes. I do wish they'd add more earnable cosmetic content. At the very least, racial mounts.
• I don't like artificial "LIMITED TIME" pop ups when I log in to create fear of missing out.Agreed. I don't like the pressure. Especially as a subscriber, I'd like the option to turn this off. It feels a bit...needy? I've played well over 2000 hours and I know it's there, I just wish it wasn't smacking me in the face. Additionally, I wish they'd just leave things in the store so I can buy things when I want. They're leaving money on the table.
• I don't like buying an expansion like the Skyrim one, and only getting to play half of the story and find out there is another half that is not included in the expansion. I think many players have maligned the yearly release model. I'd happily buy a yearly package if they offered it regularly, but those seem at a lag. Again, it's over monetized.
• I don't like it how expansions and their land masses and content have gotten smaller and smaller and the content seems to be getting worse not better. I'm not sure I agree with this. Western Skyrim was huge - it was two zones. I personally don't like the multi-zone zones, but I don't think it's fair to say they're getting smaller. I'd have to see actual square miles or something. They don't feel smaller to me, just more sliced up.
• I don't like it how damage done is based on total mana or stamina, a system so bad that no MMO in history has used it before and the only one who uses it is the one universe that actually had the most hybrids in its single player games, so this system actually hurts that!
• I don't like it that you can't purchase a craft bag, and it stirs resentment every-time I play. Something like a crafting bag should not be the number one reason to get a subscription and designing this as a negative to get you to subscribe feels bad. They need subscribers for revenue. I'd rather they incentivize this over the continual onslaught of gambling boxes.

Whats funny is I actually like the combat, I like the graphics and UI with addons. I love the music and love being in Tamriel.
Its just when I log in, I get mad. I have to physically try to play the game and not think about it.

How do I get past this or is there even a way?

Personally, I don't think it's something you should convince yourself to play. If you don't like the game's business model, then perhaps the game isn't for you. I don't like the FOMOs or $100 houses, but the game needs to make money to keep running. It's just business. There are lots of earnable items in the game that take a little bit of work. I get the frustration, but don't put yourself through psychological hoops to play a game.

We still don't how much they generate from the game though, so saying it's to keep the game alive without real insight into the revenue stream, it's like saying 'eat cake!'

PS: out of curiosity I googled, can't vouch for the information details, but interesting none the less
https://www.konaequity.com/company/the-elder-scrolls-online-4398265065/

Lysette

spartaxoxo wrote: »

I should also note that I fall in between your two views. I agree with SilverBride that convenience should be a perk of subbing and don't view it as wrong or predatory inherently.

But unlike her, I have drawn a line at the craft bag. That is because I feel when a convenience items feels mandatory because there is no in game equivalent and on top of that not paying is extremely inconvenient through developer contrivance, it becomes p2w-adjacent rather than a nice perk.

But then again we have already a "crafting bag light" version - there is quite frequently this - hm - week-long free ESO+ without crowns, but still with the crafting bag. So one doesn't really have to go for subscription just for the crafting bag - all the crafting stuff on characters and the bank will be transferred to the crafting bag and when ESO+ expires, that stuff will still be in the bag - it can just not be refilled again until the next free ESO+ period is offered.

If I just would want ESO+ for the crafting bag, I wouldn't be subscribed therefore - I could do without given those free ESO+ weeks frequently - but I want DLC access and all the other perks coming with ESO+. So seen from my perspective I wouldn't be opposed for the crafting bag or a minor version of it being sold on the crown store - because it is not really the major selling point for ESO+ IMO, because of those free ESO+ periods offered quite frequently.

SilverBride

I don't see what the problem is.

ESO offers nice perks for subscribing, which brings in revenue to help keep the game alive. It is not wrong to include items such as the craft bag that offer convenience. And no they shouldn't just give the most attractive perk to everyone for a one time cost which would cause a drop in revenue from losing subscribers.

ESO offers non essential items on the Crown Store for extras such as cosmetics, costumes, pets, mounts and other purely for fun items. If a player doesn't agree with the pricing of these items then don't buy them. As for fear of missing out, the player needs to use self control to not spend beyond their means.

A lot of businesses over charge for items and restrict consumers to only using their overpriced items. Some examples are movie theaters and sporting arenas. You are not allowed to bring your own refreshments and their prices are greatly inflated. Yet people still go to movies and sporting events and still buy refreshments.

If these practices offend the consumer they can choose to not participate in them, or they can accept it as means for businesses to bring in revenue and stay afloat.

DarcyMardin

I like their business model and think it’s better than many other games out there. If you subscribe, you get access to the entire game, minus the yearly expansion, which you pay extra for. But if you wait a year, that expansion gets rolled into the base game and there is more than enough content to keep folks busy if they decide to wait.

There’s also the free-to-play option where no sub is necessary. That includes the entire base game, which is huge. They charge for the DLCs, yes, but they have frequent sales, both for the base game and for various combos of DLCs. Keeping an eye out for these sales will help make your ESO gaming relatively cheap. The Crown store does not offer pay-to-win items, but cosmetics. The only exceptions are the two added classes, warden and necromancer, both of which have occasionally been BiS for a while before the game gets one of its frequent re-balances. Same goes for various equipment pieces acquired with the antiquities system, but those usually get nerfed hard when overperforming.

Over the years, this game has given me a lot of pleasure, and I don’t mind paying for my entertainment. But obviously, it’s up to the individual to decide what it’s worth to them.

RicAlmighty

Youyouz06 wrote: »

PS: out of curiosity I googled, can't vouch for the information details, but interesting none the less
https://www.konaequity.com/company/the-elder-scrolls-online-4398265065/

Not sure how much stock I would put in this considering they have the name of the company as "The Elder Scrolls Online" and the Industry as "Barber Supply Store".

WraithShadow13

I'm not a huge fan of the business model here, either. I hate lotto box mechanics, the prices are WAY too high for what i consider the actual value of the items, the artificial rarity or limited time aspect IS really obnoxious and unnecessary, the way they split the year of content was misleading since it initially DOES seem like you're buying the whole thing and not just a quarter, and now that they're probably going to be selling card packs, it just seems like it's going to be less like something i want to see every day, so it might be worth looking into that add-on.

Granted, as much as i dislike how they're running the cash shop in this game, it's no where NEAR as bad as EA does with their games, or more to the point, their MMO the old republic. THAT game nickel and dimes you to the worst degree and i will be glad to see when they close that game down.


I just... i don't expect a lot from bethesda anymore, and this game really doesn't help with that, at times.


I'm still playing it, so no you can't have my stuff.... I just really think that they need to take a long hard look at their cash shop and update it to match the current state of the game. The game's been out for eight years, and has a lot of issues so it would be nice if they weren't still charging store prices for a brand new game that had little to no issues.

Abnaxos

My main problem with ESO's aggressive monetisation is that it actually removes gameplay. I'm subscribed, for me, that's the natural way an MMO works. It makes absolutely sense, because keeping those servers up 24/7 and constantly improving/expanding the game costs a lot of money. Obviously, the players have to pay for this service. I'm happy to pay a monthly fee for a good social time sink where I can relax and have fun playing. Subscriptions and MMOs belong together, IMHO.

Now, the problem is that many items are locked away in the crown store. There's no way to get them in-game. Money isn't the point here, I can afford it if I want to. The point is that I'd like to pay for playing, but since I have to buy the items and then just receive them via mail, I don't get to play for them. I have to pay for not playing.

I wanna spend time in the game to work for stuff I'd like to have, then be happy when I finally get it. It feels good to have something that was hard work to get. Therefore, items, that are only in the store, are effectively not in the game, because there's no gameplay attached to them.

I often see the argument "but it's only vanity items". This argument completely misses the point. These vanity items should be rewards for hard work in the game world. It's why I want them, it's why it feels good when I finally have them. In any game, the journey is the reward, the reward itself is actually just a token. It's the time and work I put into getting the items, that makes me enjoy looking at my character, house, etc. This aggressive monetisation removes the journey and makes the vanity items worthless. After paying for the journey (play time), I'm forced to pay again to skip the very journey I paid for in the first place. This is paradox.

Every single crown is meta, my character doesn't know about them and doesn't do anything to get them. There's no gameplay attached to crowns. From my character's PoV, every single item, that I buy in the store, just appears out of nowhere. It takes zero play time for me to make them appear. The same is true for the daily login awards, BTW, which I usually destroy immediately, because these items don't belong in the game world.

I thought I could ignore it. I thought I could just pay my sub, ignore these 1600 crowns I receive every month and not use them in any way (because they don't exist in the game world), destroy all daily login awards immediately, and have a game that's actually worth paying for. However, it's much too aggressive. The crown store is everywhere, it's impossible to ignore.

I recently finally bought my first house, after I got 100000 gold out of nowhere as daily login reward – my project of working for the gold to buy a nice house was spoiled. The first thing you do when moving into your new home: make it warm. From the wiki, I learned that the fire isn't craftable, it's only available from the store (WTF). So, a fire suddenly appeared from some mysterious metaverse. I didn't have to pay for it, that easily fits into the crown budget I get from the subscription. However, I couldn't play for it neither.

(Edit: I could and should have acted differently about the gold, e.g. give it to the guild and act as if it's never been there, but at this point, I didn't think of such things)

That's when I realised that I wasn't happy with my new house. Nothing about it felt rewarding, the game made the house and hours of playing for it completely pointless within seconds. I don't feel like playing anymore since then, I log in to feed my horse and start research, then I play something else. After all this meta stuff, I feel that there just isn't enough game left, that's worth playing and paying for. The game is drowning in monetisation.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

RicAlmighty wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

PS: out of curiosity I googled, can't vouch for the information details, but interesting none the less
https://www.konaequity.com/company/the-elder-scrolls-online-4398265065/

Not sure how much stock I would put in this considering they have the name of the company as "The Elder Scrolls Online" and the Industry as "Barber Supply Store".

Yes I saw it at the bottom too ^^

It's strange my beard has never been styled over the years !

Fennwitty

Youyouz06 wrote: »

RicAlmighty wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

PS: out of curiosity I googled, can't vouch for the information details, but interesting none the less
https://www.konaequity.com/company/the-elder-scrolls-online-4398265065/

Not sure how much stock I would put in this considering they have the name of the company as "The Elder Scrolls Online" and the Industry as "Barber Supply Store".

Yes I saw it at the bottom too ^^

It's strange my beard has never been styled over the years !

In-game style parlor another long asked-for feature :P

Weper

Basically you can't even get a banker or a merchant assistant in-game. And each of them costs 5000 crown which is hilarious. It should be a basic feature because it gives so much advantage.

I'm completely okay with cosmetic items like mounts, pets, hairs, etc but Banker/Merchant (and soon Destructor?!) Assistants, Pets that give you +5 inventory space, Skill points, Skill line upgrades and other stuff like that are not just cosmetics and they are too much for my taste.

I'm pretty sure that's the reason why Motifs, Skill points and Skill lines are not account-wide.

Lot of houses are only available for Crowns.
For casual players there are only few mounts available in-game and all of them are horses, most mounts are in the Crown Store or for Gems (yeah I know that there's a system called "Endeavors" but it takes lot of time to get a nice looking mount, and these mounts are limited time offers). It would be nice if some Veteran dungeons and Veteran raids could have a chance to drop a mount. Or even quests should give mounts.

Or maybe I'm too used to being able to get 500+ mounts and tremendous amount of pets by playing the game (we all know which MMO I'm talking about).

Also the basic hair styles are also locked behind Crowns.

And yeah, I know that you can "buy" Crown items from other players but it's not an official solution and you can easily get scammed. There should be a global auction house for currency exchange (gold to crown and crown to gold).

Most of the cards for the new Card Game will be probably also locked behind Crowns. Probably that's the reason why most players are upset about that feature.

newtinmpls

DarkWombat wrote: »

you should not feel that way

1-I disagree with the idea of telling people how they should feel.

2-I would encourage anyone tempted to do such a thing to get over themselves

3-I sub on my main account because I like certain bennies. I don't sub on my other accounts because I don't like those bennies enough to pay for them more than once.

Snogards

I sub totally for the craft bag. Storage should not be an issue but they just keep adding more and more stuff. I was happy to pay monthly then they went cross platform, free to play. Then more and more stuff and no where to put it. I have 5 alts that are just mules. I shouldn't have this problem. Why ??????????

SilverBride

Players have storage problems because they collect and keep more things than they need. ZoS could give us 10 times the current storage space and some players would have that filled up in no time.