ESO PvP Update [Updated June 2022]

Jabbs_Giggity

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

I posted this thread.... it's not meant to be mean, it is just as a long time ESO PvPer, none of my friends are happy with where the game is at..

It's so frustrating to see this game going in the absolute wrong direction the past few years...
Right now
-- there is No Q for Cyrodil's main campaign on a Friday or Sat night (PS4 NA)
-- In PvE you can't tell what sets you are wearing unless you look at the name (I'll explain later)
-- I have friends in Battlegrounds posting 3million dmg with 1 kill and like 5 assists.

THERE IS SO LITTLE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SETS IT IS DUMB
Is this a misguided quest for balance by essentially making everything the same? Balance should be "Roles" or Good vs this, Bad vs this.. like remember when DK's were a nightmare for Sorcs, and Templars were a nightmare for DK's and Nightblades were a nightmare for anyone standing by themselves not paying attention?

Now I'm playing World of Tanks in PvP.
The average enemy is 35k health, 25k armor, in some ultra fast moving ball group that can't be CC'd and and good luck if I can even 1 focus one enemy with the tiny target window and delays on skills... regardless the hardest hitting skill I am going to muster after the Nerf's to heavy attacks is probably around 15k..
----

When I say all damage sets are the same...
--- Don't you think something that only improves FIRE or LIGHTNING Damage should actually make a difference on that?
I can show up with generic damage at 6000 (for example) or where a specified set and get maybe 6300... That is absolutely irrelevant, especially in PvP.
-- I know many people hate proc sets, but regardless 95% of them are worthless-- what good is a 5k proc? Nothing much.
-- If set does one thing, or only effects one kind of enemy it should matter.

I would hope the declining numbers in PvP would inspire ESO to reach out to the main player base, instead of whomever they are listening to now (it has to be ball groups or stam trolls with no interest in the actual game who want to be able to run away whenever they are hit, and anytime they die the game is broken and something needs nerfed)--- I say that, because these are the only effective builds in PvP at this point.

I have played Max Dmg. Single Target DPS for 5 years. I can frequently have 7k dmg, 25k pen, Crit dmg of +35%, with a 4 skill non-crit tool tip combo of 60k+, on the rare occasion I hit it perfect, everything Crits, most players still walk away. This isn't me bragging, I'm just making the point I understand damage, I love theory crafting, I like to play non-conventional even stupid builds once and a while... but right now this is so mundane, obviously others feel that way aslo, looking at the population.


I'd start by taking every damage set and TRIPLING every number on them (if something is ludicrious, fine, nerf that one set.. still better than right now) , and then maybe work down from there, unless this is exactly what you want, in which case just say so... so people like myself give up all hope and move on.

Honestly, the issue isn't sets. The issue is that ZOS has muted class identity. All classes can now do everything. The only difference is nerfing into the ground or buffing to Zeus an entire class to keep rotating which class is S, A, B, C, D, E tier.

Templar looks to be nerfed into oblivion currently while DK is sitting on God's lap. IMHO

Jabbs_Giggity

Goodall wrote: »

I stopped playing ESO back in 2020 because of the bad pvp performance in Cyrodil and I came back to see if any of the promised "changes" has made any difference.

Well from reading most of the stuff on the internet about it, seems it hasn't. Which sadly sucks as I thought an almost two year break will be enough time to sort this problem out.

PVP has had performance issues for years all the way back since the Beta. However It does feel like every time I do decide to back to ESO after a break the performance is only getting worse.

I will only now ever go back to ESO if I see good evidence that they have actually improved the performance in Cyrodil.

Same. Quit in 2019 same reason. Saw they finally put Major Brutality on Jabs! Nope, nerfed the whole class to compensate. In addition, 3 years have gone by and PVP performance is immensely worse then when I left.

[snip] Even PVErs are getting a taste of every day PVP issues, from what I'm hearing in-game.

[edited for bashing]

React

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Goodall wrote: »

I stopped playing ESO back in 2020 because of the bad pvp performance in Cyrodil and I came back to see if any of the promised "changes" has made any difference.

Well from reading most of the stuff on the internet about it, seems it hasn't. Which sadly sucks as I thought an almost two year break will be enough time to sort this problem out.

PVP has had performance issues for years all the way back since the Beta. However It does feel like every time I do decide to back to ESO after a break the performance is only getting worse.

I will only now ever go back to ESO if I see good evidence that they have actually improved the performance in Cyrodil.

Same. Quit in 2019 same reason. Saw they finally put Major Brutality on Jabs! Nope, nerfed the whole class to compensate. In addition, 3 years have gone by and PVP performance is immensely worse then when I left.

[snip] Even PVErs are getting a taste of every day PVP issues, from what I'm hearing in-game.

It isn't even just PVErs anymore. Expensive cosmetics are being released unfinished/non-functional (see rune priests weapons, soulrazer weapons). Events are being launched where the primary reward doesn't drop at all, with a month being required to fix it (kjal mask drop). Firesong launched, and the overland bosses were crashing/rolling back people's games.
A fix to siroria caused siege to persist indefinitely, fully breaking cyrodiil for 24 hours. It also caused the DK standard bug.

Every single time they patch the game, in any way whatsoever, they are breaking something.

I was extremely optimistic about the future of ESO until the launch of firesong and the recent update on the code rewrite project. Seeing such a minor patch catastrophically break the game in so many ways, while being told that the "year long" code rewrite is actually going to take two years minimum after we're 11 months into the project, has completely killed any confidence or optimism I had for this game.

I hope they turn it around, but all indicators are that things are going to continue to degrade.

Zabagad

React wrote: »

while being told that the "year long" code rewrite is actually going to take two years minimum after we're 11 months into the project

Where is this coming from?
I missed it and would appreciate any link to the source.
tyia

React

Zabagad wrote: »

React wrote: »

while being told that the "year long" code rewrite is actually going to take two years minimum after we're 11 months into the project

Where is this coming from?
I missed it and would appreciate any link to the source.
tyia

On the first page of the January PVP update, Matt firor says that the project will take most of 2022, and that they'll give use periodic updates on it. We didn't get a single actual update other than "it's ongoing", until November 17th when @ZOS_GinaBruno said the following;

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

One of our main priorities right now is upgrading the remaining server hardware which is still ongoing and on track - we'll have an update on the timeline before the end of the year. We have also been working on the re-architecture we originally mentioned earlier this year. It's worth noting this isn't a single item that will go into an individual update, but contains many smaller pieces that will be released over multiple updates starting next year.

Since this is the ONLY update we got in the 11 months the project has been underway, I can only assume that this statement means that they intend to finish replacing the servers hardware before implementing any "chunk" of this code rewrite. With the timeline for that being unclear, I am assuming the earliest we would see a chunk of this project roll out is Q2, but more likely Q3 2023. If I am correct about that, it means that the earliest the project would be completed would likely be in 2024, over a year after the initial completion date we were promised.

I hate to do all this inferring, because it may not be representative of what is actually going on. But since we have been given no clear updates, as @ZOS_MattFiror promised us, all we can do is infer based on the scraps of obscure information buried deep in the comments of player-made forum threads.

blktauna

This is where an official roadmap would be of use. Then folks would not have to be on here badgering poor Kevin. But as we will never get one, alls we can do is guess.

I still don't get why a tentative schedule of whats planned when is such a huge secret. I get things change, hence the tentative. Zos gets annoyed at us being up their ass all the time, yet won't do the slightest thing to address customer concerns in this area.

Let people know, its just common courtesy.

Lebkuchen

Like children when they say "i am going to clean up my room next week, leave me alone..." If only there was a big parent company with motivation, know-how and resources to actually do it...

Jaraal

Lebkuchen wrote: »

Like children when they say "i am going to clean up my room next week, leave me alone..." If only there was a big parent company with motivation, know-how and resources to actually do it...

Or maybe the parents have left their child at the sitters while they are at the hospital excitedly awaiting the arrival of their newborn?

Thrasher91604

Wow, nearly 6 months and not even a status report. Not promising.

Elsonso

React wrote: »

Since this is the ONLY update we got in the 11 months the project has been underway, I can only assume that this statement means that they intend to finish replacing the servers hardware before implementing any "chunk" of this code rewrite. With the timeline for that being unclear, I am assuming the earliest we would see a chunk of this project roll out is Q2, but more likely Q3 2023. If I am correct about that, it means that the earliest the project would be completed would likely be in 2024, over a year after the initial completion date we were promised.

I hate to do all this inferring, because it may not be representative of what is actually going on. But since we have been given no clear updates, as @ZOS_MattFiror promised us, all we can do is infer based on the scraps of obscure information buried deep in the comments of player-made forum threads.

It seemed clear to me that the server hardware and the rewrite were independent things and one is not waiting on the other. I also cannot see a reason why they would do it that way, unless the rewrite was depending on specific changes in the hardware. There was no indication of that, and that is advanced server design, so I think we can safely dial back on that, at least.

As for the architecture work, they were super vague about timelines in the initial comment from Firor, so everything we "know" about how and when that will roll out was speculation until Gina wandered by last month. Still is. We are still super vague on the timeline, but now we know it is (1) not 2022, and (2) spread out over multiple updates. We still do not know the nature of these "smaller pieces", which update will be the first one, or how many updates it will take.

Going back to communication, the November announcement about the re-architecture should have been concurrent with Update 36 going to PTS in early September. At bare minimum, it could have been at the top of the patch notes, but it really needed to be a separate comment posted in advance of the patch notes. Firor's "most of 2022" and "test as we can on the PTS" comments left the door open for 4Q, and they just left him hanging.

It took ZOS a month to assemble the brief update on the re-architecture after @ZOS_Kevin posted his comment in Matt's thread on Oct 11. This is why there needs to be a communication specialist that can track all of these things and make sure that the studio is saying what they need to say, when they need to say it. Whatever they have in place for this is not working.

Thrasher91604

Please link ZOS statements on PvP progress made since June.

Poncho28

Kinda bumping this, had a question about low population buffs. Not understanding how the ruling applies for a given faction. Case in point, AD/EP/DC earlier this morning was 2/3/2 with DC having no scrolls in Gray Host, yet AD receives the low pop buff.



Was curious if someone could provide some input to help me understand how low pop buffs are actually helping in Cyrodiil.

Thanks

Karivaa

What is the status of redoing the servers for Xbox? We’ve been waiting a long time.

blktauna

After March 2023 is my guess, but they should be answering this, not me.

Fallenjmc

Could create a 12v12v12 or 24v24v24 battlegrounds type game of ctf for solos and only solos so that people who absolutely disdain ball groups can do some kind of large scale pvp, without dealing with the broken over healing ice staff shield spamming ball groups that literally 95% of the cyrodill population hates

ProudMary

Ok. Another year has passed. Where are we at exactly with these updates ZOS?

Time for another official update from the management about this.

When can we expect better performance in PvP? When can we see the pop caps increased again for the main campaigns?

SaffronCitrusflower

ProudMary wrote: »

Ok. Another year has passed. Where are we at exactly with these updates ZOS?

Time for another official update from the management about this.

When can we expect better performance in PvP? When can we see the pop caps increased again for the main campaigns?

Yep. It's been another year again now. What is the status of the code reworking so PvP can be as enjoyable as it used to be?

@ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno

blktauna

Does ZOS plan to speak on this at the Global event?

SaffronCitrusflower

blktauna wrote: »

Does ZOS plan to speak on this at the Global event?

Highly doubtful as they will censor anyone who mentions PvP or Cyrodiil in their streams now days.

blktauna

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

blktauna wrote: »

Does ZOS plan to speak on this at the Global event?

Highly doubtful as they will censor anyone who mentions PvP or Cyrodiil in their streams now days.

I know. [snip]

[edited for discussing disciplinary actions]

React

Now that it has been a full year since this was posted, can we get a full update on the progress of this project? I know we received word from Gina via a comment several months ago that this would be implemented in multiple "chunks" across several patches in mid-late 2023. Can an actual developer please confirm the timeline that we can expect for this project, and what performance impact the first chunk is expected to have?

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_MattFiror

malistorr

Good luck with that...

Solantris

React wrote: »

can we get a full update on the progress of this project?

+1

Lebkuchen

I would like to know what we can expect from this project.

When too many players are online you can feel it in the game. Especially on weekends the whole game can be laggy. When too many players are at the same place we even get kicked from the game (Cyrodiil). Will there still be a point where everything slows down or even breaks down when too many players are online?

Or will we get good performance, no matter how many players are playing the game?

Are they just updating the servers they have, so the game can go on without completely falling apart? Like fixing an old car with new parts.

Or is the plan to make the game playable at any time, no matter how many people are online? Like renting resources from another company when the own servers are fully occupied? (Sorry i don't know anything about what makes a game like this work. But i imagine that there is a point when the servers can not handle any more players, and choices will have to be made.)

If everything works out as planned. How many people will be allowed to play this game at the same time before things get ugly again? Will there be more players allowed in Cyrodiil again?

ProudMary

We desperately need population caps to be raised at the very least. After so many years of chipping away at the pop caps the cap is just WAY WAY too low now.

Indigogo

Why has this been unstickied when we have had nothing implemented yet?

Karivaa

When will the improvements be available for Xbox?!

malistorr

For Lebkuchen. I don't work for ZOS but have kept up pretty well with any information available from ZOS and here is what is happening based on my understanding.

I would like to know what we can expect from this project.

When too many players are online you can feel it in the game. Especially on weekends the whole game can be laggy. When too many players are at the same place we even get kicked from the game (Cyrodiil). Will there still be a point where everything slows down or even breaks down when too many players are online? THIS DEPENDS ON WHAT KIND OF PLAYER CAPS THEY HAVE IN PLACE AFTER THE UPGRADE. THE MORE PLAYERS ALLOWED IN AN INSTANCE OF THE GAME, THE WORSE THE PERFORMANCE, JUST LIKE BEFORE. SO ZOS DOES HAVE CONTROL OVER THE BALANCE AND ULTIMATELY ON HOW THE GAME PERFORMS.

Or will we get good performance, no matter how many players are playing the game? THIS WILL NEVER BE THE CASE WITH ANY GAME. HARDWARE HAS LIMITS SO THE DEVS HAVE TO CONTROL HOW MANY PLAYERS ALLOWED PER INSTANCE/AMOUNT OF HARDWARE.

Are they just updating the servers they have, so the game can go on without completely falling apart? Like fixing an old car with new parts. NO, THEY ARE REPLACING THE SERVER HARDWARE. IMAGINE YOU HAVE A 10-YEAR OLD GAMING COMPUTER AT HOME AND YOU REPLACE IT WITH A COMPUTER MADE THIS YEAR, IT WILL BE MUCH FASTER DUE TO ADVANCEMENTS IN HARDWARE. FOR EXAMPLE SPINNING HARD DRIVES HAD READ/WRITE SPEEDS OF MAYBE 100Mbps AND NEW M.2 NVME SSDS HAVE AT LEAST 30X READ AND 15X WRITE SPEEDS.

Or is the plan to make the game playable at any time, no matter how many people are online? THE ONLY WAY THEY CAN DO THSI IS BY CONTROLLER HOW MANY PLAYERS ALLOWED PER INSTANCE/AMOUNT OF HARDWARE. AND THIS IS AN ONLINE GAME SO IT'S AFFECTED BY YOUR INTERNET SPEED AND THEIRS. ANY PROBLEMS IN THE INTERNET MEANS PROBLEMS WITH THE GAME AT THAT TIME. THIS IS ALSO AFFECTED BY YOUR HOME HARDWARE (SERIES X IS BEST, SERIES S LOWER, THEN XBOX ONE), WHETHER YOU ARE ON WI-FI OR HARDWIRED, AND EVEN THE TYPE OF INTERNET YOU HAVE.

Like renting resources from another company when the own servers are fully occupied? (Sorry i don't know anything about what makes a game like this work. But i imagine that there is a point when the servers can not handle any more players, and choices will have to be made.) HOPEFULLY THEY WILL UTILIZE MICROSOFT AZURE NOW AND THE GAME WILL BE ABLE TO SCALE TO DEMANDS AT THE TIME. FOR EXAMPLE IF THEY HAVE 100 PLAYERS PER PHYSICAL SERVER AND MORE PEOPLE LOG IN, THE GAME SCALES TO USING MORE SERVERS IN AZURE AS PLAYER DEMAND GROWS. THIS TECHNOLOGY HAS BEEN AROUND A DECADE OR SO, SO IF MICROSOFT/ZOS ISN'T USING IT, THAT'S A HUGE MISTAKE IMO. THEY WILL NEVER RELEASE SUCH TECHNICAL DETAILS ABOUT HOW THE GAME WORKS BEHIND THE SCENES. THAT IS TRADE SECRET TYPE DATA AND THEY WOULDN'T WANT COMPETITORS TO KNOW THEIR TRADE SECRETS, EVEN IF THIS TYPE OF INFORMATION IS SOMEWHAT COMMON KNOWLEDGE AMONG IT PEOPLE LIKE ME.

If everything works out as planned. How many people will be allowed to play this game at the same time before things get ugly again? Will there be more players allowed in Cyrodiil again? THEY WILL NEVER ANSWER THE 1ST QUESTION. FOR THE 2ND QUESTION, IF WE'RE LUCKY, THEY MAY ANNOUNCE THAT MORE PEOPLE WILL BE ABLE TO PLAY IN THE SAME CYRODIIL INSTANCE FOR PVP SOME TIME THIS YEAR. THEY RELEASE SUCH LITTLE TECHNICAL DETAIL ABOUT THE INNER-WORKINGS OF THE GAME THAT I DOUBT YOU'LL HEAR. AT BEST MAYBE THEY KEEP LIMITS THE SAME SO THAT WITH THE BETTER HARDWARE THE GAME PERFORMS BETTER WITH THE SAME AMOUNT OF PLAYERS. WE'LL SEE IF THEY EVER SAY ANYTHING. HOPEFULLY THE GOAL IS BETTER PERFORMANCE TO MAKE THE GAME MORE PLAYABLE. HOPEFULLY THEY DON'T INCREASE PLAYERS BECAUSE DOING SO WILL LOWER PERFORMANCE ON ANY GIVEN HARDWARE.

DirtyDeeds765

Alot of people are either disregarding this or oddly missed it.

The new hardware is still coming in "late February or March" for ALL PLAYERS. As well as the re-architecturing of the servers (software) in June with the chapter. This was stated in early December, 2022 in the Studio Director's letter.

From the Studio Director's letter in early December 2022 -

"Almost all the hardware should be delivered and in place by December and then we'll need a month or two to install and test everything before we shift over to the new hardware. Please note that we will be prioritizing all three Realms in the EU datacenter first, and then will return to the NA datacenter to finish moving Xbox and PlayStation Realms there. We are as frustrated as you that this has taken so long—but it is happening and will be done and ready for all players, probably in late February or March of 2023."

And on the re-architecturing -

"Our multi-threading work continues, as we announced a month or so back. Just to remind everyone, this is the initiative that will result in better overall server performance. As we already announced, we will be phasing these changes in over the course of 2023, starting with the Chapter in Q2. We’ll keep everyone updated in patch notes going forward."

https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/63363

@DirtyDeeds765

malistorr

During the stream today they said nothing about multi-threading being implemented during the Q2 update but that doesn't mean something couldn't happen. We'll have to wait and see. Based on their past promises vs. what actually happens I think you're being extremely optimistic to expect anything before the Q3 Quality of Life improvements/bug fixes and I think even then it will be a minor change/update if any. Their past statements made it seem like any changes to code would be in incremental steps that continue well past 2023.