Rushing dungeons and can't even report. This is becoming a problem.

SammyKhajit

@ZOS_Kevin can we please have some communication or at least just an acknowledgment that this is a QOL issue?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

jaws343 wrote: »

thesarahandcompany wrote: »

wtlonewolf20 wrote: »

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Regarding the reasoning that the speeding players just want to farm their daily transmute crystals on multiple characters:

- How many transmute crystals do you get per dungeon?
- How many transmute crystals can an account have?
- Are they EVER going to reach their limit and stop, or are they just going to keep abusing the Group Finder to farm unending amounts of transmute crystals and convert the excess to gear?

I think I already know the answer to the last question, so it's basically a rhetorical question, but I'm asking it to make a point. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the players who are the worst about abusing the Group Finder this way-- and they are indeed abusing it-- have already acquired and exceeded the maximum amount of transmute crystals on their accounts.

Abusing? How is this abuse? This is no more abuse than ANY other daily activities that you can do multiple times per day per character.

It’s not abuse, the whole idea of banning or reporting speed runners is just absurd and unreasonable. It’s literally the least charitable interpretation of people’s intentions.

Not to mention that there are literal achievements associated with running the dungeon quickly.

Funny, didn't even consider that.

Player A wants to loot and explore every nook and cranny. Player B wants to RP with all the NPCs and absorb every ounce of dialogue. Player C is after transmutes to make some new gear. Player D is trying to get a speed run achievement because it's the last one he needs for that dungeon. Player E is just trying to knock out pledges before bed. I could go on.

None of these motivations are unreasonable on their face, but certainly they are at odds with one another. What is the best solution? FORM A GROUP OF LIKE MINDED INDIVIDUALS!!! The reality is that in a group of Randoms in easy content with all these competing philosophies and motivations, speed is going to win out 9/10 times.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

SammyKhajit wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin can we please have some communication or at least just an acknowledgment that this is a QOL issue?

Here is your communication, from the patch notes:

General:
-You will now utilize “Joining Encounter in Progress” to travel to a dungeon boss when it is engaged by the group in the following dungeons:

Translation, keep up or we will keep you up.

Xebov

Amottica wrote: »

The solution Zenimax should have implemented is one that requires all players to be at the boss before the encounter can start. Ofc, this also means no porting of anyone that is left behind as it would allow those who are doing the quest, or just plain do not want to run past the mobs, to go at a normal pace. I have seen this done in other games and it works well.

Because having to wait for little joe that loots every box he can find and is 3 rooms behind you is a nice thing.

AlnilamE wrote: »

Honestly, the solution to this is ZOS limiting the Transmute rewards to once per day per account.

Then you don't have to worry about rushing 18 characters through and ruining someone else's day.

And yes, if you are one player either rushing ahead or lagging behind, you are in the wrong. If you are playing in a group, even with randoms, you need to adapt to the group pace, even if it's not what you would prefer.

That would change nothing. You have a very narrow view on things. Do you realy think that everyone in your random daily group queued for a random daily? Sure some are there for the transmutes, some are also there for the XP, others might be on farming runs for the dungeon gear. Taking out bits and pieces will not change the whole situation at all.

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

I dont know where you all find these rushers. Even the fastest groups i get have a speed where ppl can easily keep up. I also dont think that rushing abuses anyone. Its a random group finder after all, you dont like what you got you can leave or try to kick and move on.

Speed is relative. People that complain about others going too fast are typically moving like snails. I have done hundreds of GF dungeons. Almost never have I experienced what all these various OPs making identical threads claim is a massive problem. I think a mirror would be a good place to start. Either that or you know perhaps forming their own group, which is obviously the solution to what barely constitutes a problem.

That is the only logical explanation i find. Especially the run through adds ppl are so rare that i meet one a month at most.

Xebov

SammyKhajit wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin can we please have some communication or at least just an acknowledgment that this is a QOL issue?

Its an issue solver not an issue. It makes sure that everyone is present at the boss. It enforces the smallest common value among the group that you want to beat the dungeon itself and it works well for exactly that.

Troodon80

SammyKhajit wrote: »

@ZOS_Kevin can we please have some communication or at least just an acknowledgment that this is a QOL issue?

Random dungeons with random people you don't know are always going to be a "QoL issue," simply because you don't know their skill level, knowledge, or experience. If one is to complain that speed running a dungeon is ruining someone elses' fun, then equally someone who is delaying a dungeon is ruining someone elses' fun. It works both ways and there's an easy fix for it. Find other players; make a group and you can dictate who joins and how the run will go.

_Zathras_ wrote: »

For instance, in FFXIV, one person can't rush past content to engage a final boss. The system simply isn't designed that way. As the group progresses, the dungeon's story unfolds in a sequential pattern. Yes, some people who have completed the dungeon beforehand can engage a boss early while some people are still watching the cinematic for that particular encounter, but if there is an early kill you still get credit.

I think this is a bad comparison and making content more in line with FFXIV would potentially set a negative precidence in ESO. Granted, a DD can't rush to the very end, but story or a door is not the only reason why you can't pull. If a DD rushes through several packs of mobs, they will most assuredly die and probably cause a group wipe as well -- and, by the way, frequently has happened in groups I've been in; it's also very much a problem that isn't solved.

The level of healing output, shields, and damage in FFXIV is nothing even remotely close to ESO, as well as the fact that by queuing for a random daily dungeon means you're level synced. If you do non-synced often there are people who get left in the dust because a high level player can solo a relatively low level dungeon. A better example is to look at Palace of the Dead or Heaven-on-High (or Delubrum Reginae for larger scale) if you're going to make a comparison, because roles don't matter as much, and frequently people will run to the end and stand in the teleport circle not letting anyone explore or open chests for upgrades and items. Again, very much not solved and the same advice goes there: if you want a run you control, the best way is to do it with friends, people from a free company (guild), find experienced people via Discord or Linkshell.

Kiralyn2000

El_Borracho wrote: »

2) Group dungeons are not story time. Slowing down and making the group wait for you to read books, notes, or interact with NPCs is just as rude and self-centered as the runner you are complaining about.

Then they need to stop putting story in them.

Xebov

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

2) Group dungeons are not story time. Slowing down and making the group wait for you to read books, notes, or interact with NPCs is just as rude and self-centered as the runner you are complaining about.

Then they need to stop putting story in them.

Or story players could start finding likeminded players to do them the way they like. Just like with everything else.

Olen_Mikko

Why would you report them for doing high dps?

Vote to kick, follow and enjoy easy dungeon, or leave

seldomseenkd

Dungeons have quests that require you to interact with NPCs and read stuff, and the transmute crystal rewards incentivise quick runs on multiple characters. Both goals are valid.

The problem isn't the slow players wanting to experience the story. Neither is it the players who want to tear through the dungeon like a blue-thoraxed fly for their 10 crystals. The problem is the system that groups players who have conflicting goals.

Until ZOS decides to improve their system, you only really have two options: Continue using the system knowing it will group you with players who have conflicting goals. Or find players with similar goals and group with them to guarantee a more enjoyable experience.

You could expect others to abandon their goals to complete yours, which is an excellent strategy if you want to see a lot of middle fingers.

renne

Soulshine wrote: »

Stop making yourself miserable by relying on strangers all the time. Make some friends, yeesh! And no, I don't buy that your schedule keeps you from making friends in game. If you are in a random at 3 am with other people, those people are potential game friends and so is everyone else on your server that you see at that time.

People do like to pretend that their timezone is the only one and the game isn't global. "But it's 3am! There's no one online!" Yeah, buddy, but your 3am EST is 7pm AEDT I can guarantee us Australians are online. Make some Aussie friends, we're nice I swear.

renne

AlnilamE wrote: »

Honestly, the solution to this is ZOS limiting the Transmute rewards to once per day per account.

Then you don't have to worry about rushing 18 characters through and ruining someone else's day.

No, then their day is being ruined because they can't find anyone to group with through GF and we have 1000 threads instead about people not being able to do the dungeons at ll.

kmcaj

Just get a group

Zephiran23

I think I've seen once a rusher saying that that was their plan for the dungeon. In every other case they charged off, ignoring the wishes of the rest of the group and without saying a word. They might come back for chests or heavy sacks if announced, but even that seems too much for them a lot of the time.

I'm also yet to read of a normal dungeon with a speed run achievement.

AlnilamE

Xebov wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Honestly, the solution to this is ZOS limiting the Transmute rewards to once per day per account.

Then you don't have to worry about rushing 18 characters through and ruining someone else's day.

And yes, if you are one player either rushing ahead or lagging behind, you are in the wrong. If you are playing in a group, even with randoms, you need to adapt to the group pace, even if it's not what you would prefer.

That would change nothing. You have a very narrow view on things. Do you realy think that everyone in your random daily group queued for a random daily? Sure some are there for the transmutes, some are also there for the XP, others might be on farming runs for the dungeon gear. Taking out bits and pieces will not change the whole situation at all.

Considering how these complaints increased when transmutes were added, I'd say it's a fair assessment. I know exactly one person who runs them exclusively for XP. Everyone else will do randoms for the Transmutes primarily.

Someone else suggested adding transmutes to other dailies, like guild dailies (and maybe WB dailies as well). I think that would be a good idea.

And again, when running a random dungeon, if you are not doing what the majority of your group is doing, then you are being selfish.

Soulshine

renne wrote: »

Soulshine wrote: »

Stop making yourself miserable by relying on strangers all the time. Make some friends, yeesh! And no, I don't buy that your schedule keeps you from making friends in game. If you are in a random at 3 am with other people, those people are potential game friends and so is everyone else on your server that you see at that time.

People do like to pretend that their timezone is the only one and the game isn't global. "But it's 3am! There's no one online!" Yeah, buddy, but your 3am EST is 7pm AEDT I can guarantee us Australians are online. Make some Aussie friends, we're nice I swear.

Exactly. I play on pc na and eu, from na, west coast na at that. I found plenty of people to get to know on eu at any hour of the day or night for me. Many are also Japanese and Russian, as well as Aussie, and all manage to communicate just fine.

Auztinito

jaws343 wrote: »

Auztinito wrote: »

I hate to burst everyone’s bubble.

Every solution to the OP’s problem that people use are not guaranteed or work at all.

“Say you’re doing quest” It wasn’t a week ago that I tried doing Selena’s Web where players would pick up your quests and skip dialogue to “let” you do the quest but not actually experience it or completely ignore chat.

OP, I’d suggest you ask the group to kick you if they are rushing so you don’t incur a penalty. If they don’t kick you, just spring forward and tag boss to get loot but don’t play. So, either they’ll kick you or carry you.

However, the best way to do this is solo but you’ll find dungeons that are impossible to complete (even with companions) due to adds or ect. Then there isn’t really a solution for you.

Edit: Honestly, they should look at FFXIV if they want to put story in dungeons. Players are more or less forced to wait on other players because they have no way to complete dungeon by themselves. I’m surprised they’re just doing half measures to power creep. They should be really knocking a lot of player dps down by alot.

I think it is incredibly important to point out that if you are in the dungeon finder queue trying to do quests and listen to the dialogue and make dialogue choices, you are the problem. Find your own group to listen to the dialogue, don't waste other peoples time doing that.

If someone says they are doing to quest, I go slow enough for them to get to the quest interactions and skip the dialogue to complete the quest. Sometimes that even means clearing the next trash pack up to the next boss while they interact, because clearing the trash is convenient. But no way am I waiting on them to listen to everything unless the group was formed for that specific purpose.

I’ll find my own group or do it solo if I can’t just simply run the dungeon with people. If people continue to rush them. I’ll just keep tagging boss and let the group carry me or kick me. If I can’t experience my quests then I’ll let the group know that I don’t care to experience their quick dungeon. Especially if they’re content with running without me. I’ll just tag and let the group go ahead. I don’t mind free loot.

etchedpixels

AlnilamE wrote: »

Considering how these complaints increased when transmutes were added, I'd say it's a fair assessment. I know exactly one person who runs them exclusively for XP. Everyone else will do randoms for the Transmutes primarily.

Someone else suggested adding transmutes to other dailies, like guild dailies (and maybe WB dailies as well). I think that would be a good idea.

And again, when running a random dungeon, if you are not doing what the majority of your group is doing, then you are being selfish.

Cap transmute runs per account, give more for veteran. Then they can go speed run veteran if the want the full crystal allocation.

Xebov

AlnilamE wrote: »

And again, when running a random dungeon, if you are not doing what the majority of your group is doing, then you are being selfish.

The whole game is about being selfish. You have your account, your characters, your gear, your currencies, your stickerbook and your achievments.
Whenever you play the game you do something because you like it or because it benefits you. When you colaborate with other players its in the most cases because you share a common goal. Outside of that goal you might be inclined to do extra things if they have no negative impact to you like using up to much of your time. The only time you are not acting selfish is when you help a friend achieve something that has no value for you.
In short, most players dont run dungeons because they like other players so much. They run them because they get something specific out of the run. There is no obligation towards other players to help them. Its a random 4 player group and players have the choice of working together beyond the goal of completing the dungeon, but they dont have to. They also have the tools to clean up their group in case they cannot work together. Thats the reality. I have no problem with players doing quests and helping them, but i do it because i want to not because i have to.

AlnilamE

renne wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Honestly, the solution to this is ZOS limiting the Transmute rewards to once per day per account.

Then you don't have to worry about rushing 18 characters through and ruining someone else's day.

No, then their day is being ruined because they can't find anyone to group with through GF and we have 1000 threads instead about people not being able to do the dungeons at ll.

Nah, I don't think that would be a problem. Before transmutes, people did randoms and/or pledges. They just didn't try to rush through all their characters in one day.

Xebov wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

And again, when running a random dungeon, if you are not doing what the majority of your group is doing, then you are being selfish.

The whole game is about being selfish. You have your account, your characters, your gear, your currencies, your stickerbook and your achievments.
Whenever you play the game you do something because you like it or because it benefits you. When you colaborate with other players its in the most cases because you share a common goal. Outside of that goal you might be inclined to do extra things if they have no negative impact to you like using up to much of your time. The only time you are not acting selfish is when you help a friend achieve something that has no value for you.
In short, most players dont run dungeons because they like other players so much. They run them because they get something specific out of the run. There is no obligation towards other players to help them. Its a random 4 player group and players have the choice of working together beyond the goal of completing the dungeon, but they dont have to. They also have the tools to clean up their group in case they cannot work together. Thats the reality. I have no problem with players doing quests and helping them, but i do it because i want to not because i have to.

People forget that the reason why there is a reward for doing a "random" dungeon is to fill the group of someone who is looking to run a specific dungeon, either for the quest, pledge or to farm gear. The reward for the random dungeon is your payment for not being selfish.

Marillea

I generally run dungeons as a duo, sometimes with a 3rd, and if the random goes ahead and doesn't mention they have quest, we do tend to go ahead and begin the run.

While I do understand that missing a quest is annoying, it happened to me plenty of times, it is also no one elses problem really. Some dungeons have been out for years that I can hardly blame the players for wanting to be in and out asap.

I tend to keep an eye on the random, see if they stop at the beginning without saying a word, which means they are most likely talking to the NPC to begin the quest, and wait with them whenever they stop here and there during the run, but it's not easy to notice in all dungeons, and it should become a natural thing to say "Hey guys, I have the quest."

I wouldn't count this as griefing, if anything, some dungeons are terribly designed with quests that even require you to kill extra bosses, wait 20-30 seconds for an NPC, incredibly long dialogues before you can even talk to the NPC, or in Tempest Island, if someone talks to the quest lady (Forgot her name), anyone else with the quest will have to wait for her to finish talking before being able to proceed with the quest too.

I try not to be annoyed about it when I am on a new character, I get it, and I wish more quests were like the DLC dungeons ones where I can go from beginning to the end and the quest just completes itself. The idea of questing in a dungeon is cool, but I can't possibly expect others to play around me, wait for me, when all they want is their transmutes.

ZOS should fix the queue, or players should just find others that want to experience the game the same way. Or, easiest solution, credit the whole group if someone goes ahead and gets a boss kill.

Xebov

AlnilamE wrote: »

renne wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Honestly, the solution to this is ZOS limiting the Transmute rewards to once per day per account.

Then you don't have to worry about rushing 18 characters through and ruining someone else's day.

No, then their day is being ruined because they can't find anyone to group with through GF and we have 1000 threads instead about people not being able to do the dungeons at ll.

Nah, I don't think that would be a problem. Before transmutes, people did randoms and/or pledges. They just didn't try to rush through all their characters in one day.

Xebov wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

And again, when running a random dungeon, if you are not doing what the majority of your group is doing, then you are being selfish.

The whole game is about being selfish. You have your account, your characters, your gear, your currencies, your stickerbook and your achievments.
Whenever you play the game you do something because you like it or because it benefits you. When you colaborate with other players its in the most cases because you share a common goal. Outside of that goal you might be inclined to do extra things if they have no negative impact to you like using up to much of your time. The only time you are not acting selfish is when you help a friend achieve something that has no value for you.
In short, most players dont run dungeons because they like other players so much. They run them because they get something specific out of the run. There is no obligation towards other players to help them. Its a random 4 player group and players have the choice of working together beyond the goal of completing the dungeon, but they dont have to. They also have the tools to clean up their group in case they cannot work together. Thats the reality. I have no problem with players doing quests and helping them, but i do it because i want to not because i have to.

People forget that the reason why there is a reward for doing a "random" dungeon is to fill the group of someone who is looking to run a specific dungeon, either for the quest, pledge or to farm gear. The reward for the random dungeon is your payment for not being selfish.

Its nothing more or less than a reward for completing the dungeon. It does not include any tasks outside of it by design.

spartaxoxo

Xebov wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

renne wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Honestly, the solution to this is ZOS limiting the Transmute rewards to once per day per account.

Then you don't have to worry about rushing 18 characters through and ruining someone else's day.

No, then their day is being ruined because they can't find anyone to group with through GF and we have 1000 threads instead about people not being able to do the dungeons at ll.

Nah, I don't think that would be a problem. Before transmutes, people did randoms and/or pledges. They just didn't try to rush through all their characters in one day.

Xebov wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

And again, when running a random dungeon, if you are not doing what the majority of your group is doing, then you are being selfish.

The whole game is about being selfish. You have your account, your characters, your gear, your currencies, your stickerbook and your achievments.
Whenever you play the game you do something because you like it or because it benefits you. When you colaborate with other players its in the most cases because you share a common goal. Outside of that goal you might be inclined to do extra things if they have no negative impact to you like using up to much of your time. The only time you are not acting selfish is when you help a friend achieve something that has no value for you.
In short, most players dont run dungeons because they like other players so much. They run them because they get something specific out of the run. There is no obligation towards other players to help them. Its a random 4 player group and players have the choice of working together beyond the goal of completing the dungeon, but they dont have to. They also have the tools to clean up their group in case they cannot work together. Thats the reality. I have no problem with players doing quests and helping them, but i do it because i want to not because i have to.

People forget that the reason why there is a reward for doing a "random" dungeon is to fill the group of someone who is looking to run a specific dungeon, either for the quest, pledge or to farm gear. The reward for the random dungeon is your payment for not being selfish.

Its nothing more or less than a reward for completing the dungeon. It does not include any tasks outside of it by design.

It's a reward for helping others. It prioritizes placing you in a group of someone who needs help by design. This is why you're not rewarded for picking a specific dungeon.

orgin_stadia

etchedpixels wrote: »

Cap transmute runs per account, give more for veteran. Then they can go speed run veteran if the want the full crystal allocation.

Why is the kneejerk reaction so often to punish one group or the other? The very same people that want to do dungeons slowly now will be on the other side of the fence soon enough if they keep on playing this game. Solutions like these are just a way to shoot yourself in the foot.

A better solution would be to separate the queues into three levels. Beginner, Expert, Veteran.

Beginner is the current normal queue for questers and other slowmo runs.
Expert is normal without the quest, for grinding and quick completion.
Veteran is the current veteran, preferrably without the quest (Go to beginner for quest)

Xebov

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

renne wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Honestly, the solution to this is ZOS limiting the Transmute rewards to once per day per account.

Then you don't have to worry about rushing 18 characters through and ruining someone else's day.

No, then their day is being ruined because they can't find anyone to group with through GF and we have 1000 threads instead about people not being able to do the dungeons at ll.

Nah, I don't think that would be a problem. Before transmutes, people did randoms and/or pledges. They just didn't try to rush through all their characters in one day.

Xebov wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

And again, when running a random dungeon, if you are not doing what the majority of your group is doing, then you are being selfish.

The whole game is about being selfish. You have your account, your characters, your gear, your currencies, your stickerbook and your achievments.
Whenever you play the game you do something because you like it or because it benefits you. When you colaborate with other players its in the most cases because you share a common goal. Outside of that goal you might be inclined to do extra things if they have no negative impact to you like using up to much of your time. The only time you are not acting selfish is when you help a friend achieve something that has no value for you.
In short, most players dont run dungeons because they like other players so much. They run them because they get something specific out of the run. There is no obligation towards other players to help them. Its a random 4 player group and players have the choice of working together beyond the goal of completing the dungeon, but they dont have to. They also have the tools to clean up their group in case they cannot work together. Thats the reality. I have no problem with players doing quests and helping them, but i do it because i want to not because i have to.

People forget that the reason why there is a reward for doing a "random" dungeon is to fill the group of someone who is looking to run a specific dungeon, either for the quest, pledge or to farm gear. The reward for the random dungeon is your payment for not being selfish.

Its nothing more or less than a reward for completing the dungeon. It does not include any tasks outside of it by design.

It's a reward for helping others. It prioritizes placing you in a group of someone who needs help by design. This is why you're not rewarded for picking a specific dungeon.

Its still only a reward for completing the dungeon. Sure in the background you help fill a group, but that does not change the very nature of the reward being only for the completion and for nothing else.

Mushroomancer

orgin_stadia wrote: »

Why is the kneejerk reaction so often to punish one group or the other? The very same people that want to do dungeons slowly now will be on the other side of the fence soon enough if they keep on playing this game. Solutions like these are just a way to shoot yourself in the foot.

A better solution would be to separate the queues into three levels. Beginner, Expert, Veteran.

Beginner is the current normal queue for questers and other slowmo runs.
Expert is normal without the quest, for grinding and quick completion.
Veteran is the current veteran, preferrably without the quest (Go to beginner for quest)

I really think this would be the best option, even though it could run the risk of splitting the player base a bit too much, therefore it would probably be best to leave the nomenclature as is, and just introduce a specifically labelled "story mode" queue (or even solo mode) so that people can experience or even re-experience the quest if they want to. As I have seen people mention in other thread, this would be a mode that would either be even easier than normal (although that sounds a bit excessive) or just give you reduced rewards (e.g: no transmutes).

seldomseenkd

Xebov wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

renne wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Honestly, the solution to this is ZOS limiting the Transmute rewards to once per day per account.

Then you don't have to worry about rushing 18 characters through and ruining someone else's day.

No, then their day is being ruined because they can't find anyone to group with through GF and we have 1000 threads instead about people not being able to do the dungeons at ll.

Nah, I don't think that would be a problem. Before transmutes, people did randoms and/or pledges. They just didn't try to rush through all their characters in one day.

Xebov wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

And again, when running a random dungeon, if you are not doing what the majority of your group is doing, then you are being selfish.

The whole game is about being selfish. You have your account, your characters, your gear, your currencies, your stickerbook and your achievments.
Whenever you play the game you do something because you like it or because it benefits you. When you colaborate with other players its in the most cases because you share a common goal. Outside of that goal you might be inclined to do extra things if they have no negative impact to you like using up to much of your time. The only time you are not acting selfish is when you help a friend achieve something that has no value for you.
In short, most players dont run dungeons because they like other players so much. They run them because they get something specific out of the run. There is no obligation towards other players to help them. Its a random 4 player group and players have the choice of working together beyond the goal of completing the dungeon, but they dont have to. They also have the tools to clean up their group in case they cannot work together. Thats the reality. I have no problem with players doing quests and helping them, but i do it because i want to not because i have to.

People forget that the reason why there is a reward for doing a "random" dungeon is to fill the group of someone who is looking to run a specific dungeon, either for the quest, pledge or to farm gear. The reward for the random dungeon is your payment for not being selfish.

Its nothing more or less than a reward for completing the dungeon. It does not include any tasks outside of it by design.

It's a reward for helping others. It prioritizes placing you in a group of someone who needs help by design. This is why you're not rewarded for picking a specific dungeon.

Its still only a reward for completing the dungeon. Sure in the background you help fill a group, but that does not change the very nature of the reward being only for the completion and for nothing else.

If it's a reward for dungeon completion, why don't I get those rewards when I complete the dungeon solo?

The daily dungeon, by it's very design, is forcing you to be cooperative to get your crystals. If there was a way of getting those 10 crystals playing solo, I would be doing it.

spartaxoxo

Xebov wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Xebov wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

renne wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Honestly, the solution to this is ZOS limiting the Transmute rewards to once per day per account.

Then you don't have to worry about rushing 18 characters through and ruining someone else's day.

No, then their day is being ruined because they can't find anyone to group with through GF and we have 1000 threads instead about people not being able to do the dungeons at ll.

Nah, I don't think that would be a problem. Before transmutes, people did randoms and/or pledges. They just didn't try to rush through all their characters in one day.

Xebov wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

And again, when running a random dungeon, if you are not doing what the majority of your group is doing, then you are being selfish.

The whole game is about being selfish. You have your account, your characters, your gear, your currencies, your stickerbook and your achievments.
Whenever you play the game you do something because you like it or because it benefits you. When you colaborate with other players its in the most cases because you share a common goal. Outside of that goal you might be inclined to do extra things if they have no negative impact to you like using up to much of your time. The only time you are not acting selfish is when you help a friend achieve something that has no value for you.
In short, most players dont run dungeons because they like other players so much. They run them because they get something specific out of the run. There is no obligation towards other players to help them. Its a random 4 player group and players have the choice of working together beyond the goal of completing the dungeon, but they dont have to. They also have the tools to clean up their group in case they cannot work together. Thats the reality. I have no problem with players doing quests and helping them, but i do it because i want to not because i have to.

People forget that the reason why there is a reward for doing a "random" dungeon is to fill the group of someone who is looking to run a specific dungeon, either for the quest, pledge or to farm gear. The reward for the random dungeon is your payment for not being selfish.

Its nothing more or less than a reward for completing the dungeon. It does not include any tasks outside of it by design.

It's a reward for helping others. It prioritizes placing you in a group of someone who needs help by design. This is why you're not rewarded for picking a specific dungeon.

Its still only a reward for completing the dungeon. Sure in the background you help fill a group, but that does not change the very nature of the reward being only for the completion and for nothing else.

If the reason the random exists is to put you in the dungeon of someone who needs help, then that is also the purpose of the incentive. They are incentivizing you to do the queue that helps others rather than just completing a specific dungeon.

Xebov

orgin_stadia wrote: »

Why is the kneejerk reaction so often to punish one group or the other? The very same people that want to do dungeons slowly now will be on the other side of the fence soon enough if they keep on playing this game. Solutions like these are just a way to shoot yourself in the foot.

Its the same players expecting others to play a tank so they get shorter queues or expecting that random tanks do extra dungeons for this goal.

orgin_stadia wrote: »

A better solution would be to separate the queues into three levels. Beginner, Expert, Veteran.

Beginner is the current normal queue for questers and other slowmo runs.
Expert is normal without the quest, for grinding and quick completion.
Veteran is the current veteran, preferrably without the quest (Go to beginner for quest)

This idea would get you nowhere because players would sooner or later jump between the groups when they notice that the designated group has a long queue time.

madrab73

You have 5 guild slots and can play with friends. Dungeons are way better if you play with those.