Rushing dungeons and can't even report. This is becoming a problem.

SeaGtGruff

Regarding the reasoning that the speeding players just want to farm their daily transmute crystals on multiple characters:

- How many transmute crystals do you get per dungeon?
- How many transmute crystals can an account have?
- Are they EVER going to reach their limit and stop, or are they just going to keep abusing the Group Finder to farm unending amounts of transmute crystals and convert the excess to gear?

I think I already know the answer to the last question, so it's basically a rhetorical question, but I'm asking it to make a point. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the players who are the worst about abusing the Group Finder this way-- and they are indeed abusing it-- have already acquired and exceeded the maximum amount of transmute crystals on their accounts.

Franchise408

EF321 wrote: »

Ryuvain wrote: »

EF321 wrote: »

You don't do story runs with randoms.

Sadly, my hours end up with mostly everyone I know being asleep. Rip.

So you want to punish some random player for that?

He's not punishing anyone by wanting to complete his quest

pklemming

You wait until they get to the final boss and vote kick them.

Remathilis

In some dungeons (FG1 is the classic) you don't even have to be doing the quest to get left in the dust. If you don't perform the water skip trick, you can be disbanded/removed from instance while still fighting another boss. If they added an invisible wall to stop the boss skip in FG1, I wouldn't cry in the least.

All you did was waste three other people's time so they can't be kicked after fighting the second boss.

BomblePants

HertoginJanneke wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

This rude, selfish “I-want-my-reward-right-now-so-tough-for-you” behavior in group dungeons must stop!

I totally agree with you, but unfortunately that is the mentality of society today.

You are sadly right. That doesn’t mean we have to just allow it to carry on. Although I don’t know what the answer is…

Also not everyone is able to make friends in game… some people find it terrifying even grouping for a dungeon run let alone making friends in game…

ectoplasmicninja

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

- How many transmute crystals do you get per dungeon?
- How many transmute crystals can an account have?
- Are they EVER going to reach their limit and stop, or are they just going to keep abusing the Group Finder to farm unending amounts of transmute crystals and convert the excess to gear?

I do random normals once in a while, at least prior to the curation system - I run them more often now to try to fill out my collections, but typically all on the same character (so after 10 crystals from the first random I only get one crystal per) - and I only PvP during Midyear Mayhem and only on one character (so I will get 50 crystals from that campaign once or twice a year). I am absolutely overflowing with transmute crystals. I have two storage coffers that are purely reconstructed copies of Hat of Frostbite to act as crystal storage, on top of my 1000 crystal limit with ESO+. I have more crystals than I will ever need and frankly at this point I would love to be able to convert them into some other material or form of currency, or even just give them to people. I cannot fathom why anyone would need to blaze through randoms a dozen times a day or whatever these people are doing. Do they change gear every other day? Is the unquenchable burning need for transmute crystals really worth actively hindering three other strangers? Literally no goal I have ever had in this game has ever caused me to need or want to ruin someone else's experience.

I am fine with rushing a dungeon if everyone else is on board. I am fine with skipping the trash if everyone else is on board. I am fine with jumping down the waterfall in FG1 if everyone else is on board. I am not fine with one person sprinting ahead and killing bosses without the others and depriving them of loot, or skipping bosses without warning or consent, or leaving people behind when they've said they're on the quest. That is an unfriendly way to play.

Araneae6537

IMHO, ZOS should remove or reduce the transmute crystal reward for randoms. I think the problem is queuing and rushing through just for that. Else, wouldn’t they do the dungeon or with a pre-made group for a speedrun?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Ryuvain wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Report them? Please show me what part of the TOS they are violating.

Intentional griefing maybe? They run ahead, solo final boss, and leave immediately. (Without anyone else being around so they can't loot either.) Even when players are under 50 or even at level 10-20. They will solo the entire dungeon if you don't end up kicking them early.

I think that is a pretty big maybe. Look, I get it, its annoying [snip] when people sprint to the end in a group of pure randoms, but the other side of the coin is that I have certainly been in randoms with people that are extraordinarily slow, and frankly have little to know business in group content with their build/playstyle. Is that griefing? Sure is big a waste of time.

They answer to all 137,516 threads on this issue is that if you want to play a dungeon at your own pace, find a group of 4 like minded individuals. It just isn't that hard. The specific answer to a speed runner in the moment is a vote kick. I have initiated them myself, but the reality is, they usually don't pass.

Reporting for griefing is frankly abusing the system in my opinion. ZOS wont do anything about it, and frankly you are wasting their resources that could be used to fix actual problems.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Amottica wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Report them? Please show me what part of the TOS they are violating.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw Zenimax could consider it harassment if the player asked them to stop. Zenimax has said harassment would he reviewed on a case by case basis.

For OP, there is not much Zenimax can do other than treat this as harassment. However, it can be avoided by vote kicking the offenders. Forming a partial group of friends is great to ensure you can vote kick jerks.

Again, massive stretch. If they are screaming in chat, "Keep up you stupid pugs", maybe, but I think harassment in the context of an MMO needs something being said. Even in PVP, without hate whispers, I think it would take an extraordinary amount of specific targeting on a player to constitute harassments. I don't think speed running even comes close, especially considering you probably never see that dude again.

In real life, harassment typically takes a pattern of behavior. One dungeon certainly is not going to rise to that level.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

karekiz wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Report them? Please show me what part of the TOS they are violating.

I would look at TOS.

TOS has nothing really much to do with in game. Its mostly legal garble from being a BETA tester to defining how you "Own" the game. While there is "Rules of Conduct" it is a slimed down version of its longer "Code of Conduct" portion.

If you want to mention something like that you should talk about the Code of Conduct which is more in line with regulating in game issues. Yes there is vague statements that allude that it can be bannable if you effectively kill someones quest.

I am a lawyer in real life. I haven't read the whole thing, but I have read a lot of it. Show me the specifics, and I am happy to discuss. Bannable? That is absurd in this context.

Aardappelboom

I have started doing dungeons solo, best experience I have had in the game, it's very satisfying and it actually feels like completing the quest actually means something since you don't faceroll all bosses and mobs.

It takes a bit more time, sure but if you play for the story it's defintely worth it.

jle30303

I believe that it should be impossible to interact with a dungeon boss while there are players in another room of the dungeon.

If you want those players to catch up with you, *go back and help them* by killing off all the stuff you've aggroed, that is now interrupting all their attempts to catch up with you.

Also, there should be invisible walls in Fungal Grotto so that it's impossible to actually go *forwards* by jumping into the water, you can only go backwards - the only way back up should be on the goblin side of the river, not the dreugh side.

Pulling slow players forward is not the answer. It causes them to miss important stages of quests - which might be the one-off dungeon quest, or it might be a pledge boss. It is fast players that must be pulled back.

orgin_stadia

Araneae6537 wrote: »

IMHO, ZOS should remove or reduce the transmute crystal reward for randoms. I think the problem is queuing and rushing through just for that. Else, wouldn’t they do the dungeon or with a pre-made group for a speedrun?

Or, instead of trying to find every reason to punish one group or other, why not try to find a solution that caters for both ways to play? Like a seperate queue for quest runs.

Arunei

perfiction wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

This rude, selfish “I-want-my-reward-right-now-so-tough-for-you” behavior in group dungeons must stop!

What about people who take their time to enjoy the views and loot every single barrel/sack/backpack which either forces the group to wait for them or makes them stay behind? Is that griefing as well?

Having different playstyle is not a bannable offence.

But see, the difference here is that the person taking their time isn't ruining the dungeon for the other players by burning the final boss, thus making those other players have to do the dungeon again. The players taking their time aren't preventing others from getting their loot like the person who rushes and burns bosses does. You all keep claiming that the rushers time is somehow more important than the other peoples' and they don't want their time wasted by people doing quests or looting containers, but it's okay for the rushers to waste the other peoples' time by making them go through the dungeon again for drops? Talk about double standards.

If you want rewards from group activities like the Transmutes and exp from random dungeons, then DO IT WITH THE GROUP. Otherwise solo the dungeons if your time is so precious, rather than inconveniencing your fellow group members.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

jle30303 wrote: »

I believe that it should be impossible to interact with a dungeon boss while there are players in another room of the dungeon.

If you want those players to catch up with you, *go back and help them* by killing off all the stuff you've aggroed, that is now interrupting all their attempts to catch up with you.

Also, there should be invisible walls in Fungal Grotto so that it's impossible to actually go *forwards* by jumping into the water, you can only go backwards - the only way back up should be on the goblin side of the river, not the dreugh side.

Pulling slow players forward is not the answer. It causes them to miss important stages of quests - which might be the one-off dungeon quest, or it might be a pledge boss. It is fast players that must be pulled back.

It would appear that ZOS disagrees with your first point, because the last point is exactly what they just implemented.

The "join in encounter in progress" feature certainly is a double edged sword, but ultimately I think it does more good than harm. About the only time I would personally be mad is in a place like Selene's where there are cliffs that you jump down and cant get back up. If I was mid lock picking a chest on top of the cliff, I would probably be upset if I got pulled forward, but that is a pretty narrow situation. But again, I am almost never at the back of the pack unless I get pulled into a dungeon that is halfway complete. In that situation, I love the feature.

moleculardrugs

EpicHero wrote: »

Announce that you are doing the quest at the beginning of the dungeon.
If they don't want to help, leave the group, and try again.

There is no valid reason to FORCE people to play your way... but as always, a good attitude is half the battle.

Did Volenfell a few days ago, already did it but there were some under level 50 people who needed the quest.

SPOILER***

Do you know the usual route people take to get to the guy that gets crushed to death by the gargoyle?
*** END SPOILER

Well, our DPS decided to go around the stairs you usually climb up and pulled all the mobs. Then they abandoned a under 50 player and I just told them to slow down because we couldn't fight the boss if the game thought we were still in combat. I guess communication helps. i usually announce I need the quest when the dungeon starts as well, I have a few toons even at CP 1703 that have not done the dungeon yet and I need skill points

Most people are really understanding, which is great. I feel like that one player who isn't and just speeds along will probably have trouble fighting everything by themselves if 2 other reasonable people were to side with the quest-needer.

neferpitou73

Arunei wrote: »

perfiction wrote: »

DarcyMardin wrote: »

This rude, selfish “I-want-my-reward-right-now-so-tough-for-you” behavior in group dungeons must stop!

What about people who take their time to enjoy the views and loot every single barrel/sack/backpack which either forces the group to wait for them or makes them stay behind? Is that griefing as well?

Having different playstyle is not a bannable offence.

But see, the difference here is that the person taking their time isn't ruining the dungeon for the other players by burning the final boss, thus making those other players have to do the dungeon again. The players taking their time aren't preventing others from getting their loot like the person who rushes and burns bosses does. You all keep claiming that the rushers time is somehow more important than the other peoples' and they don't want their time wasted by people doing quests or looting containers, but it's okay for the rushers to waste the other peoples' time by making them go through the dungeon again for drops? Talk about double standards.

If you want rewards from group activities like the Transmutes and exp from random dungeons, then DO IT WITH THE GROUP. Otherwise solo the dungeons if your time is so precious, rather than inconveniencing your fellow group members.

No, they're just making content that should take 10 minutes max into a 20-30min affair

Seriously, guys. It's just a difference in playstyle. If you're going to que with random players you've got to roll with what you get. If I solo queue I expect that the dungeon take longer than I'd like it to. Oh well that's what dungeon finder gave me. Likewise if you plan to take your time to rp the quest, expect that other people aren't going to want to wait for you.

MEBengalsFan2001

It's a game and if you NEED to run a dungeon simply use GUILD chat to find others to run with you.

jle30303

It's not taking time to "RP the quest", it's the fact that you HAVE to do this to get SKILL POINTS. People who rush fast enough to break the quest are actively depriving other players of the skill point for completing the dungeon's quest.

As well as depriving them of boss loot if they don't make it to the boss fight.

This is why pulling players forwards, rather than backwards, is bad.

El_Borracho

And here we go again.



1) You only need to do the quest in a dungeon once per character. Changing dungeons for everyone because of a one-time issue on a character would ruin pledges

2) Group dungeons are not story time. Slowing down and making the group wait for you to read books, notes, or interact with NPCs is just as rude and self-centered as the runner you are complaining about

3) There is this thing called GROUP CHAT. Where you can say things to everyone in the group like "On quest" or "Need side bosses" or "Need achievement." Most randoms will slow down and even help you out. Use it. Expecting players to do what you want without telling them, then fuming at them, is the epitome of rudeness.

Xebov

I dont know where you all find these rushers. Even the fastest groups i get have a speed where ppl can easily keep up. I also dont think that rushing abuses anyone. Its a random group finder after all, you dont like what you got you can leave or try to kick and move on.

jle30303

El_Borracho wrote: »

And here we go again.



1) You only need to do the quest in a dungeon once per character. Changing dungeons for everyone because of a one-time issue on a character would ruin pledges

2) Group dungeons are not story time. Slowing down and making the group wait for you to read books, notes, or interact with NPCs is just as rude and self-centered as the runner you are complaining about

3) There is this thing called GROUP CHAT. Where you can say things to everyone in the group like "On quest" or "Need side bosses" or "Need achievement." Most randoms will slow down and even help you out. Use it. Expecting players to do what you want without telling them, then fuming at them, is the epitome of rudeness.

You completely miss the points:

(1) you need to do the quest multiple times IF SOME GODS-FORSAKEN RUSHER IS RUINING YOUR ATTEMPT by killing story bosses before you get there, or dragging you forwards so you can't partake in the necessary dialogue that is a part of the quest, guess what? you have to start at the beginning and go back and do it all over again.

(2) If there is a story quest, then they are story time. Because there is a quest, and because (very importantly) there is a SKILL POINT hidden behind the quest, it is not a bad thing to do it. When there is a convoy, all ships in a convoy move at the speed of the slowest. And if the fastest is CAUSING others to be slower - by running past trash groups instead of killing it on the way, leaving the people who literally cannot move as quickly to have to fight everything with one fewer damage dealer in the party (or, without a healer, or without a tank, if they're a fake healer or fake tank) - then it is the fastest who is being inconsiderate, not the slowest.

(3) Group chat exists, yes. A lot of racers simply ignore it. It is called being inconsiderate towards other players.

Xebov

jle30303 wrote: »

If there is a story quest, then they are story time. Because there is a quest, and because (very importantly) there is a SKILL POINT hidden behind the quest, it is not a bad thing to do it. When there is a convoy, all ships in a convoy move at the speed of the slowest. And if the fastest is CAUSING others to be slower - by running past trash groups instead of killing it on the way, leaving the people who literally cannot move as quickly to have to fight everything with one fewer damage dealer in the party (or, without a healer, or without a tank, if they're a fake healer or fake tank) - then it is the fastest who is being inconsiderate, not the slowest.

This is a perfect example because a convoy is a preplanned and premade operation aka a premade group. The dungeon finder however is a random group. By saying that all these random players should play in a specific way you imply that the time or playstyle of one player is more important than the time or playstyle of another which is not the case.

Sallymen

Literally all you have to do is say "I need a quest"m 9/10 you will get people to wait for you. What I see instead are people being cussed and insulted for going ahead when one of you stays in entrance for a solid minute when dungeon loads.

renne

El_Borracho wrote: »

And here we go again.

People really be getting in early on this topic in preparation for the Undaunted event.

jle30303 wrote: »

When there is a convoy, all ships in a convoy move at the speed of the slowest.

Good thing this is ESO and not a shipping game then.

Seriously though, if you're using the group finder then unfortunately you just have to take what you get. It is literally four random people, and the three other random people are going to have their own motivations that might be different to yours. You complain that rushers ignore requests to go slower in chat - how often does that happen to you? Like real, visible proof of the number of times that ACTUALLY happens? Because in my personal anecdata (just like this complaint is your own anecdata) it really doesn't happen that often at all. In all the years I've been playing, I've only seen requests to slow down for quest or just to let people catch up be ignored maybe, MAYBE two or three times? Every other time people will wait at bosses at the very least for the quester to do what they need to do.

If you don't sing out in chat you're questing then you might not like it, but you have to accept that a part of the problem is on you. The group finder pulls together four randoms, and the other three can't magically know you're wanting to do the quest, and you shouldn't be just assuming they do know or will know or will see you're talking to NPCs.

You also shouldn't assume that everyone is rushing through the dungeon out of any kind of maliciousness, which I feel a lot of people like to infer in threads like this.

Honestly, it's threads like this from people who don't speaking up in dungeons or try and find their own guild or group (you can post in zone chat you're looking for a group to do the quests in dungeons*) that make me feel less inclined to check out group levels when I group into the dungeon and keep an eye out for people doing the quest because the questers don't do anything to help themselves.


* Seriously though, have any of the people who make threads about rushers here tried forming a group with like minded people not just from zone chat, but from here? Figure out timezones on the weekend and start up a group! Heck, start up a guild and spam it in zone chats that you're a social guild for people who want to do dungeons at a slower questy pace for skill points and those who like to loot everything. There;s an inference that comes across in many of these threads that there's a large number of people in the same boat (heh) and if there really is then people will join you.

Amottica

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Report them? Please show me what part of the TOS they are violating.

@Oreyn_Bearclaw Zenimax could consider it harassment if the player asked them to stop. Zenimax has said harassment would he reviewed on a case by case basis.

For OP, there is not much Zenimax can do other than treat this as harassment. However, it can be avoided by vote kicking the offenders. Forming a partial group of friends is great to ensure you can vote kick jerks.

Again, massive stretch. If they are screaming in chat, "Keep up you stupid pugs", maybe, but I think harassment in the context of an MMO needs something being said. Even in PVP, without hate whispers, I think it would take an extraordinary amount of specific targeting on a player to constitute harassments. I don't think speed running even comes close, especially considering you probably never see that dude again.

In real life, harassment typically takes a pattern of behavior. One dungeon certainly is not going to rise to that level.

Considering Zenimax has said that there could be a situation that t-bagging could be considered harassment in certain situations which does mean there could very well be a situation that Zenimax finds running ahead of the group to be harassment. My statement is not a stretch at all from that possibility.

I am not suggesting it is highly likely but merely pointing out it is not a certainty the avenue Zenimax could find the behavior in violation. In other words, I answered your question.

Soulshine

honestly, not sure how many times this has to be said:

If you are salty about being rushed, or about being held up, or that you cannot get a skill point from the dungeon and need it, make your own group and then queue up for heaven's sake.

Stop making yourself miserable by relying on strangers all the time. Make some friends, yeesh! And no, I don't buy that your schedule keeps you from making friends in game. If you are in a random at 3 am with other people, those people are potential game friends and so is everyone else on your server that you see at that time.

If you cannot do that in a social MMO, and want to just rely instead on randoms, then like it or not you have to deal with whatever gets thrown at you. Yes, it can be annoying. But if it is THAT annoying then guess what? you have the option to try again with a different group, make your own, etc. There are options. I am repeating myself.

What there isn't is an option to control other people. I mean, you can try, you can ask, but that may or may not work. Just like my telling you to own your gaming experience instead of whinging about it, which you will probably ignore.

Icy_Waffles

You should get like-minded friends or a guild. I’ve run these things hundreds of times personally and I use them for you know the daily XP or what not or if I just want to chill but I’m not gonna just go super slow and hold your hand

Auztinito

I hate to burst everyone’s bubble.

Every solution to the OP’s problem that people use are not guaranteed or work at all.

“Say you’re doing quest” It wasn’t a week ago that I tried doing Selena’s Web where players would pick up your quests and skip dialogue to “let” you do the quest but not actually experience it or completely ignore chat.

OP, I’d suggest you ask the group to kick you if they are rushing so you don’t incur a penalty. If they don’t kick you, just spring forward and tag boss to get loot but don’t play. So, either they’ll kick you or carry you.

However, the best way to do this is solo but you’ll find dungeons that are impossible to complete (even with companions) due to adds or ect. Then there isn’t really a solution for you.

Edit: Honestly, they should look at FFXIV if they want to put story in dungeons. Players are more or less forced to wait on other players because they have no way to complete dungeon by themselves. I’m surprised they’re just doing half measures to power creep. They should be really knocking a lot of player dps down by alot.

El_Borracho

@jle30303 First off, not defending the runner who sprints to the end, unless its FG 1. Too bad. But it seems to me that if one player is the problem the other 3 can vote to kick him. Problem solved.

The vast majority of players in random dungeons have done the dungeon many many times before. Demanding that those players, and the game itself, change the playstyle in dungeons to make every run like it is their first time through, because one player can't take the time to talk to the other 3 in the group is no different than the dungeon runners you rail against. They are two sides of the same coin. I don't know why this is a foreign concept.

People run dungeons many, many, many times over. For transmutes. For XP. For gear farming. To learn mechanics for a vet run. For pledges. For leads. Only one of those runs will get you the skill point. Changing this to suit the one time skill point run would ruin dungeons and make pledges worse than the Psijic Skill Line. That is unquestionable.

As for people who want to read the story in depth, there are websites for that. But even more to the point, I don't want to be forced to listen to Kinlord Rilis blather on every time I'm in Banished Cells. If I want to hear the same story all the time, I'll walk through a city with Bastion.

(3) Group chat exists, yes. A lot of racers simply ignore it. It is called being inconsiderate towards other players.

So is dragging behind a group without explanation. If the other 3 players are moving on, they are not the inconsiderate one.