Overland Content Feedback Thread

Ravensilver

Franchise408 wrote: »

As far as quests go... I don't know that there is a need to redo the quests again on vet, because with the rate that new content comes out, there would be plenty to do for vet players if they could just have a vet instance of new DLC zones and quests. As my previous post stated, I'd even be okay with it if already existing overland was left the same (just give instances for things like delves), but new DLC that will be released could have instances for normal and vet (or at least the quests). Maybe I'm only speaking for myself, but even if a vet overland was isolated just to new content (or, as I suggested, one of the 2 zones were "normal", and the other was a higher level "veteran" challenge zone), that would be satisfactory for me..

Ok. But you still don't adress the problem of having two versions of the game.

If I start a new area or quest, do I have to choose *before* I start, whether to do the normal or the vet version?
What if I don't feel confident enough to do the vet version yet, can I then do the content *again*, but this time in vet? Will there be different rewards? Achievements, like in Dungeons?
Will the vet versions (including quests and all) be infinitely repeatable, so that I can keep having a 'vet' experience?

All this will require much more work and time and effort than 'just' a toggle...

myskyrim26

Update for my "harder overland' thoughts.

Just helped a player, CP 135, to complete some story boss in Deadlands. He spent 7 (SEVEN) hours trying to fight with that boss. There was some simple mechanics, I'll place it in a spoiler as it is a quest feature:

a white globe used to be protected from deadly fire ring

. Now what? Harder overland for everyone? Weird mechanics for everyone? Unplayable game for 80% of players- as 80% are casual and newbies? No. Hell no. Harder overland can only be an option.

Araxyte

myskyrim26 wrote: »

Update for my "harder overland' thoughts.

Just helped a player, CP 132, to complete some story boss in Deadlands. He spent 7 (SEVEN) hours trying to fight with that boss. There was some simple mechanics, I'll place it in a spoiler as it is a quest feature:

a white globe used to be protected from deadly fire ring

. Now what? Harder overland for everyone? Weird mechanics for everyone? Unplayable game for 80% of players- as 80% are casual and newbies? No. Hell no. Harder overland can only be an option.

That's what we're saying, give us the option for harder difficulty

Blackbird_V

myskyrim26 wrote: »

Update for my "harder overland' thoughts.

Just helped a player, CP 135, to complete some story boss in Deadlands. He spent 7 (SEVEN) hours trying to fight with that boss. There was some simple mechanics, I'll place it in a spoiler as it is a quest feature:

a white globe used to be protected from deadly fire ring

. Now what? Harder overland for everyone? Weird mechanics for everyone? Unplayable game for 80% of players- as 80% are casual and newbies? No. Hell no. Harder overland can only be an option.

This is literally what we have been saying. An option....

myskyrim26

Araxyte wrote: »

myskyrim26 wrote: »

Update for my "harder overland' thoughts.

Just helped a player, CP 132, to complete some story boss in Deadlands. He spent 7 (SEVEN) hours trying to fight with that boss. There was some simple mechanics, I'll place it in a spoiler as it is a quest feature:

a white globe used to be protected from deadly fire ring

. Now what? Harder overland for everyone? Weird mechanics for everyone? Unplayable game for 80% of players- as 80% are casual and newbies? No. Hell no. Harder overland can only be an option.

That's what we're saying, give us the option for harder difficulty

I totally agree with an optional harder overland. As well as I ask for an optional story mode for dungeons. You ask for a no reward tough fight. I ask for no reward story. No one wants to listen...

SilverBride

Araxyte wrote: »

That's what we're saying, give us the option for harder difficulty

Several of us have explained why an option is not a viable solution. Besides all the reasons we have given, Rich Lambert summed it up nicely here:

"Would it be an option just to give people the choice? It is not as simple as just flip a switch and make things more difficult. There is a TON of work and then as Lucky mentioned earlier you have to also incentivize that. Like just making something more difficult for no reason, if you’re not going to get anything out of it why do it? The satisfaction's there sure but players are always going to do the thing that is the most efficient and is the least difficult thing for their time.

So, you know like I said, we went down that route. We built the game with difficulty in mind and 2/3rds of the game was never played by players so we changed it."

Franchise408

SilverBride wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

That breathes life into overland content, which is currently dead.

And not to mention public dungeons are farmed anyway depending on what sets are meta (right now deshaan for sorrow). Dolmens are heavily farmed due to experience... so.....?

Overland is far from dead. Many players still enjoy and spend a lot of time in overland, myself included. And I always run into other players.

I am not referring to current sets that players farm that are available to all... my issue is rewarding players with better drops for an increased difficulty that they asked for and are not required to participate in. The goal has been stated as wanting to feel immersed in the story which is reward enough.

And I am not talking about just green to blue, or blue to purple, or even purple to gold which would be the case for some of the story bosses. Some have also suggested new drops and cosmetics only for the veteran version of overland.

Who? I don't recall seeing that suggested even once in all the threads I've read and participated in on this subject, including this one.

Even myself, I have gone on record at least 3 times in this thread alone saying that there should not be unique drops for vet overland, just blue instead of green.

If people are suggesting that, then you should make those arguments with those individuals (and I will join you on that) rather than imposing those arguments on the rest of us that are very clearly not saying that.

Blackbird_V

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

That's what we're saying, give us the option for harder difficulty

Several of us have explained why an option is not a viable solution. Besides all the reasons we have given, Rich Lambert summed it up nicely here:

"Would it be an option just to give people the choice? It is not as simple as just flip a switch and make things more difficult. There is a TON of work and then as Lucky mentioned earlier you have to also incentivize that. Like just making something more difficult for no reason, if you’re not going to get anything out of it why do it? The satisfaction's there sure but players are always going to do the thing that is the most efficient and is the least difficult thing for their time.

So, you know like I said, we went down that route. We built the game with difficulty in mind and 2/3rds of the game was never played by players so we changed it."

Not a viable reason for the "we went down that route" part. This isn't the 2013-2016 era. The game has massively changed then, and we're not longer Alliance locked to our Alliance-based zones. There will be more players doing this content than back in 2014 lol.

As for the "ton of work": yeah, it will be, but if players want it they'd do it and be worth it.

As for the efficiency part: if players are able to complete vet overland and do it efficiently for fun, and for rewards. Good. If players can't and can efficiently do normal for their rewards (which imo as it stands rewards suck, and needs a buff) then good. I don't really see how any of that is a valid argument. ESPECIALLY bringing up how it was in the past, when the game was totally different.

Araxyte

I

SilverBride wrote: »

Araxyte wrote: »

That's what we're saying, give us the option for harder difficulty

Several of us have explained why an option is not a viable solution. Besides all the reasons we have given, Rich Lambert summed it up nicely here:

"Would it be an option just to give people the choice? It is not as simple as just flip a switch and make things more difficult. There is a TON of work and then as Lucky mentioned earlier you have to also incentivize that. Like just making something more difficult for no reason, if you’re not going to get anything out of it why do it? The satisfaction's there sure but players are always going to do the thing that is the most efficient and is the least difficult thing for their time.

So, you know like I said, we went down that route. We built the game with difficulty in mind and 2/3rds of the game was never played by players so we changed it."

The game has changed alot since then. And as it stands, people have given many options on how this could work. Several of us have explained how this could work, which is the whole reason why this thread was opened. You're just unaccepting of the fact that some of us want to play quests in a different way to you.

Ergele

can we get a shout out to @ZOS_Kevin for doing this?

Franchise408

Ravensilver wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

As far as quests go... I don't know that there is a need to redo the quests again on vet, because with the rate that new content comes out, there would be plenty to do for vet players if they could just have a vet instance of new DLC zones and quests. As my previous post stated, I'd even be okay with it if already existing overland was left the same (just give instances for things like delves), but new DLC that will be released could have instances for normal and vet (or at least the quests). Maybe I'm only speaking for myself, but even if a vet overland was isolated just to new content (or, as I suggested, one of the 2 zones were "normal", and the other was a higher level "veteran" challenge zone), that would be satisfactory for me..

Ok. But you still don't adress the problem of having two versions of the game.

If I start a new area or quest, do I have to choose *before* I start, whether to do the normal or the vet version?
What if I don't feel confident enough to do the vet version yet, can I then do the content *again*, but this time in vet? Will there be different rewards? Achievements, like in Dungeons?
Will the vet versions (including quests and all) be infinitely repeatable, so that I can keep having a 'vet' experience?

All this will require much more work and time and effort than 'just' a toggle...

There's already 2 versions of the game. In fact, there are more.

There are 2 versions of every dungeon and trial.

There are 2 versions of Imperial City.

There are MORE than 2 versions of Cyrodiil.

And they can be entered into at will, whichever one the person wants to play.

So someone starting out can do the normal version of their zone quests and dungeons. But when I, as a vet player, enter a delve, it can ask me if I want normal or vet, just like I switch my dungeon difficulty level in my group menu.

And you say that I didn't answer your question, but the biggest chunk of my proposal makes your question entirely irrelevant, because there wouldn't be 2 versions of the game.

Let's just go back to Greymoor as a talking point example. Let's say Greymoor is a new DLC that hasn't come out yet, and is being released with a new "veteran" option difficulty.

The Western Skyrim zone is released as a "normal" zone. Normal quests, normal overland, with at best, veteran delve instances.

Then later on, The Reach is released. The Reach is treated as the "veteran" zone for the chapter. Overland difficulty is increased. There are more difficult encounters, world bosses, harrowstorms, etc. People who want to "relax" and not face challenge, can play in a fully fleshed out Western Skyrim. Veteran players who want more of a challenge to overcome will have The Reach. Similar to how zones like Craglorn and Wrothgar are now.

You don't have to split the playerbase. You don't have to have separate instances (except for delves, which are already instanced anyways, so having "normal" and "vet" versions of delves shouldn't be difficult), and everybody gets a chunk of content that caters to them.

Repeatable quests are no longer a factor, because people won't go into The Reach until they feel comfortable in higher level content, and will have all of Western Skyrim to themselves.

SilverBride

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Not a viable reason for the "we went down that route" part. This isn't the 2013-2016 era. The game has massively changed then, and we're not longer Alliance locked to our Alliance-based zones. There will be more players doing this content than back in 2014 lol.

Rich Lambert found it significant enough to mention when asked specifically about an optional veteran delves and quests just 2 months ago.

Blackbird_V wrote: »

As for the "ton of work": yeah, it will be, but if players want it they'd do it and be worth it.

But how many players want it and will utilize it? Is it enough to justify the huge amount of work it will take to implement it?

Rich also had these things to say:

"I get there’s a lot of people that do like the harder difficulty, but a HUGE portion of our player base just wants to do story, and they don’t want to have to struggle with difficult things. And so that was why we did what we did and said story is soloable and quick path will always be soloable and if you want the extra challenge you can go seek out other things to challenge you.

"I totally hear you on the difficulty thing. I like things to be more difficult. But you know, the data doesn’t lie. And we have never been more successful than we are today. And a lot of that has to do with just how much freedom players have to go and experience story."

spartaxoxo

Ravensilver wrote: »

Now try to imagine that situation throughout Tamriel. Every boss has now varying and difficult mechanics. Every bandit. Every wolf. You'd have to group. Then take time to educate the group. Then hope that no one else comes along (since except for Dungeons, Trials and Raids, everything else isn't instanced to the single player or group entering it) and blows it. Requiring you to start over. Three hours later... you're still fighting the same wolf or pirate or whatever.

That boss in Murkmire with the self healing is legitimately the only fight in the game I get angry when I see more players. I remember one time I had him down to execute by myself and then two people came along to "help." He healed himself up to full thanks to totems spawning near them that I couldn't reach in time to stop it and they were not looking. Then a couple more people showed up and also just parsed with barely any dps. Now his totems could spawn literally at all the places and I was the only one even trying to down them.

Fight took forever and I finally had to quit and get my guild to come and zerg him down.

drsalvation

Caroloces wrote: »

Thanks to the Devs for this great thread with a lot of great input already!

I'll try to keep it short: I've been a player since Beta, and still love the game, but the only thing that attracts me to overland content these days are the lore and the skillpoints one gains through the main story quests. I miss terribly the suspense and tension I experienced early in the game when confronting such antagonists as Doshia and Mannimarco. I recall dying often and having to think through strategies to help me achieve ultimate victory. Nowadays, I actually refrain from attacking so I don't instantly kill these so-called ultimate threats to Tamriel.

Exactly THIS!
As I mentioned, we don't need a veteran overland (this is coming from me, who made a thread about it before this one got created).
What we need is veteran story mode, only that, no need to alter the mobs in overland, the delve bosses or any of that, just the story mode.
We only get to play main quests ONCE, and having to refrain from attacking the world-ending threat because you want to feel like they're an actual threat, makes the story content so underwhelming, people rush through it because the only incentive to play stories are rewards.
And heck, I don't even think veteran story mode needs better rewards (if anything, just bump the quality of equipment rewards up to purple and maybe like 100 more gold in cash rewards, nothing much is needed).

Dungeons and trials are fun the first time you play them, the second time you play them is only because you're farming gear from them, and when you realize, you're only farming gear from dungeons so you can test it on other dungeons. And dungeons are self-contained quests you can run in 30 minutes to an hour. There's no long-term engagement.
Not only that, but optimizing your build, especially as a tank, becomes redundant because you only need to for other dungeons/trials, nothing more. At least now you could farm that precious gear because if you don't the world will end because you couldn't defeat Kurog.

Ravensilver

Blackbird_V wrote: »

As for the "ton of work": yeah, it will be, but if players want it they'd do it and be worth it.

And that, right there, is the crux of the matter.

Do players really want this?

Oh, we have, what... 20? 30? people arguing here on the forum? Both for and against a vet version of the game.

But that is such a miniscule portion of the actual player base, that it's more or less irrelevant.

The only way we can *truly* know what *all* players want, is to do a survey. A *mandatory* survey that you have to complete before you can sign in. Then ZOS will know what *all* players - PC NA, PC EU, Console - really want.

What we're doing here on the forum is just airing our grievances... those few of us that actually frequent the forums. If you look at the various threads, it's always the same people posting.

There is one other thing that ZOS does that we can't: look at the data.

How many percent of the active accounts have completed which content? How often? How many percent of the active accounts have completed which achievements? How many percent of the active accounts have bought the newest chapters? How many ESO+ accounts out there? How many players in each zone? What dungeons are most popular, and which version of them - normal or vet?

And so on.

All we're doing here is talking. We don't have access to what *really* influences ZOS: the data. As long as we don't have that, 20 people stamping their feet and whining 'we want vet overland' isn't going to convince ZOS to actually allocate time and money to doing something that *none of us here* really knows whether the paying player base wants it or not.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Can we get solo dungeon option in exchange? Would only be fair
Obviously green gear instead of blue just like vet overland would be purple instead of blue

Blackbird_V

SilverBride wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Not a viable reason for the "we went down that route" part. This isn't the 2013-2016 era. The game has massively changed then, and we're not longer Alliance locked to our Alliance-based zones. There will be more players doing this content than back in 2014 lol.

Rich Lambert found it significant enough to mention when asked specifically about an optional veteran delves and quests just 2 months ago.

Blackbird_V wrote: »

As for the "ton of work": yeah, it will be, but if players want it they'd do it and be worth it.

But how many players want it and will utilize it? Is it enough to justify the huge amount of work it will take to implement it?

Rich also had these things to say:

"I get there’s a lot of people that do like the harder difficulty, but a HUGE portion of our player base just wants to do story, and they don’t want to have to struggle with difficult things. And so that was why we did what we did and said story is soloable and quick path will always be soloable and if you want the extra challenge you can go seek out other things to challenge you.

"I totally hear you on the difficulty thing. I like things to be more difficult. But you know, the data doesn’t lie. And we have never been more successful than we are today. And a lot of that has to do with just how much freedom players have to go and experience story."

So make a toggle. Then people who don't want to experience a challenge don't have to.......... And data doesn't lie, sure. Maybe if they tried it now their data might be a whoooooole lot different.

I am actually getting sick and tired people treating this game as a casual solo story game, when it's an MMO, where a part of MMO is challenge.

I mean look at Guild Wars 2: A lot of the overland is a challenge in its own right, and it's called a casual MMO. The story bosses don't die in 1-2 hits............ And people STILL DO IT.

This is the Elder Scrolls Online. There should be challenge, even if there's a toggle (like dungeons and trials have normal and vet). This isn't Skyrim 2.0.



The " if you want the extra challenge you can go seek out other things to challenge you." We get vet trials, dungeons and arenas.

You guys get overland, normal trials, normal dungeons, normal arenas. We really do not have much, and what we have can get extremely repetitive. So many quests in overland a lot to explore, but it's just so easy even with crafted gear like julianos/hundings that it's actually laughable that an MMO has catered so hard to people who are basically noobs.

---

Ravensilver wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

As for the "ton of work": yeah, it will be, but if players want it they'd do it and be worth it.

And that, right there, is the crux of the matter.

Do players really want this?

Oh, we have, what... 20? 30? people arguing here on the forum? Both for and against a vet version of the game.

But that is such a miniscule portion of the actual player base, that it's more or less irrelevant.

The only way we can *truly* know what *all* players want, is to do a survey. A *mandatory* survey that you have to complete before you can sign in. Then ZOS will know what *all* players - PC NA, PC EU, Console - really want.

What we're doing here on the forum is just airing our grievances... those few of us that actually frequent the forums. If you look at the various threads, it's always the same people posting.

There is one other thing that ZOS does that we can't: look at the data.

How many percent of the active accounts have completed which content? How often? How many percent of the active accounts have completed which achievements? How many percent of the active accounts have bought the newest chapters? How many ESO+ accounts out there? How many players in each zone? What dungeons are most popular, and which version of them - normal or vet?

And so on.

All we're doing here is talking. We don't have access to what *really* influences ZOS: the data. As long as we don't have that, 20 people stamping their feet and whining 'we want vet overland' isn't going to convince ZOS to actually allocate time and money to doing something that *none of us here* really knows whether the paying player base wants it or not.

If ZoS did an in-game poll where they went through this being OPTIONAL etc. and found a balance between rewards/incentive/whatever then we can get an answer if people want this. Plus, how many threads have been made on this matter? LOTS.

Araxyte

SilverBride wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

Not a viable reason for the "we went down that route" part. This isn't the 2013-2016 era. The game has massively changed then, and we're not longer Alliance locked to our Alliance-based zones. There will be more players doing this content than back in 2014 lol.

Rich Lambert found it significant enough to mention when asked specifically about an optional veteran delves and quests just 2 months ago.

Blackbird_V wrote: »

As for the "ton of work": yeah, it will be, but if players want it they'd do it and be worth it.

But how many players want it and will utilize it? Is it enough to justify the huge amount of work it will take to implement it?

Rich also had these things to say:

"I get there’s a lot of people that do like the harder difficulty, but a HUGE portion of our player base just wants to do story, and they don’t want to have to struggle with difficult things. And so that was why we did what we did and said story is soloable and quick path will always be soloable and if you want the extra challenge you can go seek out other things to challenge you.

"I totally hear you on the difficulty thing. I like things to be more difficult. But you know, the data doesn’t lie. And we have never been more successful than we are today. And a lot of that has to do with just how much freedom players have to go and experience story."

Yes, you are talking about what would happen if everywhere suddenly had increased difficulty with no option. We've all heard what Rich said, people would leave the game if this was the case. That's not what we want, we want some kind of normal and vet mode so everyone can be happy, not just the ones that purely want story and no quest.

SilverBride

Blackbird_V wrote: »

So make a toggle.

There has to be a sufficient number of players who want this and would utilize it to justify the cost. If they find that is the case then maybe they will consider it. This thread alone won't determine that... what players are doing in game will weigh in on this too, and they do keep an eye on that.

Blackbird_V wrote: »

You guys get overland, normal trials, normal dungeons, normal arenas. We really do not have much, and what we have can get extremely repetitive. So many quests in overland a lot to explore, but it's just so easy even with crafted gear like julianos/hundings that it's actually laughable that an MMO has catered so hard to people who are basically noobs.

Everyone gets overland, normal trials, normal dungeons, normal arenas. If a player chooses not to utilize these that is their choice, just as I choose not to run veteran content. But these things are not restricted just to casual players and low level and new to ESO players.

ESO isn't catering to "noobs", but rather are providing overland content that everyone can succeed in.

Blackbird_V wrote: »

I am actually getting sick and tired people treating this game as a casual solo story game, when it's an MMO, where a part of MMO is challenge.

All MMO means is Massive Multiplayer Online, which means that many players are in the game world at the same time. There is absolutely nothing in this definition that indicates that challenge is something that all players are obligated to participate in.

spartaxoxo

Blackbird_V wrote: »

This is the Elder Scrolls Online. There should be challenge, even if there's a toggle (like dungeons and trials have normal and vet). This isn't Skyrim 2.0.

That's what a lot of people want from this game though, Skryim with Friends. Where they can use any build they want the fights and still feel like a dragon slayer.

Franchise408

Ravensilver wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

As for the "ton of work": yeah, it will be, but if players want it they'd do it and be worth it.

And that, right there, is the crux of the matter.

Do players really want this?

Oh, we have, what... 20? 30? people arguing here on the forum? Both for and against a vet version of the game.

But that is such a miniscule portion of the actual player base, that it's more or less irrelevant.

The only way we can *truly* know what *all* players want, is to do a survey. A *mandatory* survey that you have to complete before you can sign in. Then ZOS will know what *all* players - PC NA, PC EU, Console - really want.

What we're doing here on the forum is just airing our grievances... those few of us that actually frequent the forums. If you look at the various threads, it's always the same people posting.

There is one other thing that ZOS does that we can't: look at the data.

How many percent of the active accounts have completed which content? How often? How many percent of the active accounts have completed which achievements? How many percent of the active accounts have bought the newest chapters? How many ESO+ accounts out there? How many players in each zone? What dungeons are most popular, and which version of them - normal or vet?

And so on.

All we're doing here is talking. We don't have access to what *really* influences ZOS: the data. As long as we don't have that, 20 people stamping their feet and whining 'we want vet overland' isn't going to convince ZOS to actually allocate time and money to doing something that *none of us here* really knows whether the paying player base wants it or not.

You say that us here on the forums are irrelevant, but this topic was clearly relevant enough that mods stepped in to make an *official* thread that is *pinned* to the very top of the General Discussion section for opinions.

You know what else was an "irrelevant" amount of people? The BG players who wanted Deathmatch only. But that "irrelevant" chunk of players was still enough to motivate ZOS into actually looking into the matter and experimenting with different changes.

And while the data of that experiment suggested that the Deathmatch-only segment of the population was low, they still got the change added into the game of a permanent Deathmatch-only queue.

So what you may deem "irrelevant", ZOS has just recently shown a precedent of listening to those voices and making changes that benefit what they want to see in the game.

So no, the "overland difficulty" discussion is not irrelevant. And clearly, the mods and devs are willing to listen to it, since the conversation was pinned to the very top of the forum with a mod-created thread.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

ESO isn't catering to "noobs", but rather are providing overland content that everyone can succeed in.

Which does necessitate catering to noobs, more or less.

Blackbird_V

SilverBride wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

So make a toggle.

There has to be a sufficient number of players who want this and would utilize it to justify the cost. If they find that is the case then maybe they will consider it. This thread alone won't determine that... what players are doing in game will weigh in on this too, and they do keep an eye on that.

Blackbird_V wrote: »

You guys get overland, normal trials, normal dungeons, normal arenas. We really do not have much, and what we have can get extremely repetitive. So many quests in overland a lot to explore, but it's just so easy even with crafted gear like julianos/hundings that it's actually laughable that an MMO has catered so hard to people who are basically noobs.

Everyone gets overland, normal trials, normal dungeons, normal arenas. If a player chooses not to utilize these that is their choice, just as I choose not to run veteran content. But these things are not restricted just to casual players and low level and new to ESO players.

ESO isn't catering to "noobs", but rather are providing overland content that everyone can succeed in.

I wouldn't call 2 shotting quest bosses and overland mobs succeeding. I'd call that absolutely laughable and boring. Not even close to being fun.

However, what if we could toggle this and suddenly make it harder, so we have a better feeling of succeeding, for those who can do it?

---

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

This is the Elder Scrolls Online. There should be challenge, even if there's a toggle (like dungeons and trials have normal and vet). This isn't Skyrim 2.0.

That's what a lot of people want from this game though, Skryim with Friends. Where they can use any build they want the fights and still feel like a dragon slayer.

That's fine. They can opt for normal difficulty then. Don't see an issue there. Maybe I wanna solo a quest boss that has 3-5m HP where I am forced to deal with mechanics instead of press R and /lute.

Franchise408

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Can we get solo dungeon option in exchange? Would only be fair
Obviously green gear instead of blue just like vet overland would be purple instead of blue

Most dungeons can already be solo'd

spartaxoxo

Blackbird_V wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

So make a toggle.

There has to be a sufficient number of players who want this and would utilize it to justify the cost. If they find that is the case then maybe they will consider it. This thread alone won't determine that... what players are doing in game will weigh in on this too, and they do keep an eye on that.

Blackbird_V wrote: »

You guys get overland, normal trials, normal dungeons, normal arenas. We really do not have much, and what we have can get extremely repetitive. So many quests in overland a lot to explore, but it's just so easy even with crafted gear like julianos/hundings that it's actually laughable that an MMO has catered so hard to people who are basically noobs.

Everyone gets overland, normal trials, normal dungeons, normal arenas. If a player chooses not to utilize these that is their choice, just as I choose not to run veteran content. But these things are not restricted just to casual players and low level and new to ESO players.

ESO isn't catering to "noobs", but rather are providing overland content that everyone can succeed in.

I wouldn't call 2 shotting quest bosses and overland mobs succeeding. I'd call that absolutely laughable and boring. Not even close to being fun.

However, what if we could toggle this and suddenly make it harder, so we have a better feeling of succeeding, for those who can do it?

The problem is that people have different ideas of what they want out of a toggle.

Some want one that simply makes mobs deal them more damage and stuff.
Some want one that lets enter a completely different shard with totally reworked mechanics. And every add group become challenging.
Some want one that lets them enter a completely different shard that is just the same stuff but everything has been buffed.

spartaxoxo

Franchise408 wrote: »

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Can we get solo dungeon option in exchange? Would only be fair
Obviously green gear instead of blue just like vet overland would be purple instead of blue

Most dungeons can already be solo'd

Most isn't all of them, nor are they tuned for a solo challenge. So soloing them is not an option for vast majority of the playerbase.

AzuraFan

Hallothiel wrote: »

, but if not incentivized correctly the whole idea about difficulty options would die rather fast.

But why would it need to be incentivised? Surely the challenge alone would be sufficient, no?

Agreed! I said as much in a previous post. If the claim is that overland needs more challenge to satisfy players who are bored because it's too easy, then the challenge offered by a "hard mode" option should be incentive enough for those players. No extra rewards should be required for those players to play in hard mode.

Ravensilver

Blackbird_V wrote: »

If ZoS did an in-game poll where they went through this being OPTIONAL etc. and found a balance between rewards/incentive/whatever then we can get an answer if people want this. Plus, how many threads have been made on this matter? LOTS.

While there have been numerous thread on this topic, they have all been started or perpetuated by more or less the same people. So the player base commenting here and asking for certain things is *definitely* smaller than the player base actually *playing* the game.

Before there is a survey, there has to be a consensus of
- what is *really* wanted
and
- how it should be implemented.

Franchise408

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

So make a toggle.

There has to be a sufficient number of players who want this and would utilize it to justify the cost. If they find that is the case then maybe they will consider it. This thread alone won't determine that... what players are doing in game will weigh in on this too, and they do keep an eye on that.

Blackbird_V wrote: »

You guys get overland, normal trials, normal dungeons, normal arenas. We really do not have much, and what we have can get extremely repetitive. So many quests in overland a lot to explore, but it's just so easy even with crafted gear like julianos/hundings that it's actually laughable that an MMO has catered so hard to people who are basically noobs.

Everyone gets overland, normal trials, normal dungeons, normal arenas. If a player chooses not to utilize these that is their choice, just as I choose not to run veteran content. But these things are not restricted just to casual players and low level and new to ESO players.

ESO isn't catering to "noobs", but rather are providing overland content that everyone can succeed in.

I wouldn't call 2 shotting quest bosses and overland mobs succeeding. I'd call that absolutely laughable and boring. Not even close to being fun.

However, what if we could toggle this and suddenly make it harder, so we have a better feeling of succeeding, for those who can do it?

The problem is that people have different ideas of what they want out of a toggle.

Some want one that simply makes mobs deal them more damage and stuff.
Some want one that lets enter a completely different shard with totally reworked mechanics. And every add group become challenging.
Some want one that lets them enter a completely different shard that is just the same stuff but everything has been buffed.

But how the rest of us want to see it implemented literally doesn't matter. None of us are the developers. We can offer suggestions, but at the end of the day it's up to the dev team to find a way to implement it.

They can look at our suggestions, they can try to implement the suggestions that can work within the context of the game, or they can find a completely different way that they think will work better.

Just because not everyone in the playerbase agrees on the details of the solution is not a valid reason to not come up with a solution.

spartaxoxo

Franchise408 wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Blackbird_V wrote: »

So make a toggle.

There has to be a sufficient number of players who want this and would utilize it to justify the cost. If they find that is the case then maybe they will consider it. This thread alone won't determine that... what players are doing in game will weigh in on this too, and they do keep an eye on that.

Blackbird_V wrote: »

You guys get overland, normal trials, normal dungeons, normal arenas. We really do not have much, and what we have can get extremely repetitive. So many quests in overland a lot to explore, but it's just so easy even with crafted gear like julianos/hundings that it's actually laughable that an MMO has catered so hard to people who are basically noobs.

Everyone gets overland, normal trials, normal dungeons, normal arenas. If a player chooses not to utilize these that is their choice, just as I choose not to run veteran content. But these things are not restricted just to casual players and low level and new to ESO players.

ESO isn't catering to "noobs", but rather are providing overland content that everyone can succeed in.

I wouldn't call 2 shotting quest bosses and overland mobs succeeding. I'd call that absolutely laughable and boring. Not even close to being fun.

However, what if we could toggle this and suddenly make it harder, so we have a better feeling of succeeding, for those who can do it?

The problem is that people have different ideas of what they want out of a toggle.

Some want one that simply makes mobs deal them more damage and stuff.
Some want one that lets enter a completely different shard with totally reworked mechanics. And every add group become challenging.
Some want one that lets them enter a completely different shard that is just the same stuff but everything has been buffed.

But how the rest of us want to see it implemented literally doesn't matter. None of us are the developers. We can offer suggestions, but at the end of the day it's up to the dev team to find a way to implement it.

They can look at our suggestions, they can try to implement the suggestions that can work within the context of the game, or they can find a completely different way that they think will work better.

Just because not everyone in the playerbase agrees on the details of the solution is not a valid reason to not come up with a solution.

If it's already the minority of players that they have indicated they don't think there is enough of them to justify the amount of work that would go into this because it would not be used by a significant amount of players, I think that some kind of general consensus is actually important.