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Overland Content Feedback Thread

  • Toxic_Hemlock
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    But here is the rub. It is far easier to just up the entire difficulty over the entire overland than to make it an optional switch. Making two or more different experiences for different playstyles may sound good to some, but the work required may just lead to them increasing it entirely to reduce the dev time.

    I, and I am sure many others, are not choosing to ignore the "optional" here, but the path of least resistance leads to just increasing it for everyone, and that is not what I want AT ALL.
    Now that's a lot better because now we are honest and can understand eachother. I want optional harder overland and you fear that the devs will become lazy and force it on everyone. We are on the same page on something, neither of us wants the game to become harder overall instead of an optional thing. I'm sure even the vet players sometimes want to just do the dailies, pick materials and go from point A to point B ASAP, so that's the biggest mistake they can make and i'm sure they are smart enough to understand that. If they ever decide to make overland challenging it's either needs to be optional or don't happen at all

    Actually I was always being honest. I am old enough to know that EVERYTHING comes with a pricetag. For many here adding a "simple" toggle" or creating a "solo instance" sounds like it will be an easy fix world wide. Although utilizing the dev time that could be better used elsewhere is my main concern in this topic and it is a BIG A** WORLD to do this with.

    Although a potion that makes you weak could be an easier fix as would a weakening effect, but my main concern is just in the devs throwing in the towel at some point.

    edit: hit enter to soon and didn't finish my sentence ;)
    Edited by Toxic_Hemlock on November 2, 2021 3:11PM
  • SimonThesis
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    As an endgame player the overland content seems far too easy. It seems like I could go around daydreaming and kill anything in my path no matter what zone I'm in without even thinking about it. It seems like overland is only designed for Role players. It makes many of us not want to quest since everything gets oneshot.

    I think a solution would be to give mobs increased mechanics. I think New World actually does this well oftentimes their mobs will apply strong dots and status effects. Also increase the difficulty of mobs for you based on how good your gear is. Most endgame players have DPS numbers higher than the health of most mobs.
    Edited by SimonThesis on November 2, 2021 3:42PM
  • Hallothiel
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    CP5 wrote: »
    [Removed Quote]

    But here is the rub. It is far easier to just up the entire difficulty over the entire overland than to make it an optional switch. Making two or more different experiences for different playstyles may sound good to some, but the work required may just lead to them increasing it entirely to reduce the dev time.

    I, and I am sure many others, are not choosing to ignore the "optional" here, but the path of least resistance leads to just increasing it for everyone, and that is not what I want AT ALL.

    They literally use this tech everywhere. They can make different instances of maps, they do, and there are everywhere, except overland. They won't change the base overland else upset a massive portion of the player base, but ignoring other players when they have the tools to provide to both, probably not in their best interest.

    So if it is so easy, and so many people want it, why haven’t Zos implemented this by now?
    Edited by ZOS_Volpe on November 2, 2021 5:51PM
  • Araxyte
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    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    We're just speculating the idea, not the finer details of rewards. Normal mode player 1 gets 1k coins, hard mode player 2 gets 1.1k coins if needed... just add something for the players that want the challenge

    Something like a bit more coin and exp wouldn't be objectionable to me. Or even something like the same gear drops for both, but one is blue and one is green quality. That sort of small thing.

    But I really do have to state I am totally opposed to something like motifs, dyes, achievements, etc. Because Overland content is one and done content, and is supposed to be unifying. I can personally do vet content no problem, but I know people who cannot. One of the people I play with in this game I know irl and he is 100% disabled. That there is content both get the same rewards is meaningful to me. I know for a fact he'd quit, for one. But also I like the spirit of it. That there is content in this game we can all do, and then content for people who want a bit of an extra challenge.

    Arguably, the overland and it's quests are the largest part of this game. Telling every player that wants a challenge and potentially more rewards when questing that they should just go do vet dungeons isn't really balanced imo. There needs to be some options for such a large chunk of the game. Everyone wants a different experience when questing.
    | All classes | PC EU |
  • SilverBride
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    vingarmo wrote: »
    Increased rewards for completing veteran vs normal are only fair because you already spending more time and effort doing it.

    If a player is forced to complete veteran content, as was the case with Cadwell's Silver and Gold, then better rewards would make sense. But that is not what is happening here. Players asking for veteran overland say they find the fights too easy and not engaging and want a more difficult experience to enhance their immersion. This is something they are asking for, not being forced into, and there should not be increased rewards for it. The more immersive experience is the reward.

    vingarmo wrote: »
    Never mind that developers themselves stated that one of the main reasons they hesitant on doing this experiment, because they are not sure how to incentivize it.

    When Rich Lambert was asked about an optional veteran overland he didn't say they were hesitant to try this or that they were even considering it at all. What he said was:

    "Would it be an option just to give people the choice? It is not as simple as just flip a switch and make things more difficult. There is a TON of work and then as Lucky mentioned earlier you have to also incentivize that. Like just making something more difficult for no reason, if you’re not going to get anything out of it why do it? The satisfaction's there sure but players are always going to do the thing that is the most efficient and is the least difficult thing for their time."

    So, you know like I said, we went down that route. We built the game with difficulty in mind and 2/3rds of the game was never played by players so we changed it.
    - Rich Lambert
    Edited by SilverBride on November 2, 2021 3:58PM
    PCNA
  • Franchise408
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    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Khenarthi wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    [*] Quest reward overhaul: Receive a reward chest at the end of a quest depending on the type of quest you have completed. The reward chest rolls on a drop table for various material, motif, cash, furniture or armour set rewards. Each chest has access to the same drop table with the greater chests having a better chance of better loot.
    [*] An optional challenge mode toggle for overland quests: A list of debuffs are afflicted onto your character depending on the challenge you have selected. A collectible tool can toggle these effects on and off in case you decide it is too difficult, or you need to go do something else entirely. Cancelling the challenge will fail the challenge however. Upon completion of the quest and challenge you receive a better rewards chest which has a slightly increased drop chance of better loot from the same drop table as the other chests, a little something for your efforts.

    See, I do not see why you should have "a little something for your efforts" as you put it for choosing the harder mode. If the point is that overland is too easy and not engaging, then getting better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode should not be necessary. Your reward is doing it on the difficulty you want.

    This to me is a huge point of contention.

    Lets remove perfected trial gear, undaunted plunder, golden jewellery, skins titles and achievements from them! Because ya know, not necessary having better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode.

    That content is meant for experienced players. Story mode is meant for everyone. If new and casual players have nothing where the rewards are tailored towards them, there is zero reason whatsoever for them to play.

    Ok lets do veteran overland mode where it's meant for experienced players, oh and lets cater some rewards for us since we're experienced! Seems like a good idea to me. They want to quest for fun, quest points and to be casual, then good for them. They should be rewarded for their time, sure. People who wanna do and complete harder content should be catered differently. If they want better rewards, then work for it.

    Story mode can only be done once per character.

    So, your statement amounts to "Veteran players should be the only ones that should have a rewarding experience where they can complete content meant for them." And if you don't see how taking literally everything for only one group of players and causing everyone else to quit is a problem, idk what to tell ya. Enjoy your shinies on a quickly dead game, I suppose.

    New and casual players must have something rewarding all to themselves. You don't need extra cookies for everything. There's zero reason why something meant to add immersion to story should come with anything special. Something like purple drop instead of blue is one thing, exclusive rewards and junk is another thing entirely

    How on Earth will people quit over a veteran overland, that can only be completed once? [snip]

    New and casual players get skill points, some gold and experience. That should be rewarding to them. If they want better rewards then they should work for it. If not, then that's on them. If they get frustrated and quit over that then that's just petty imo. We can literally compare this to vet content we have now: they work for it, learn to get better....... or get carried.

    [edited for baiting]

    Nobody new or casual wants to play just for some coin while all the great players get literally all the nicest things. Some of them will look at the massive amount of work it takes to go from a brand new player or casual player to someone able to do the hardest stuff and get good. And the rest will just quit.

    There has to be fun and rewarding things for all levels of play, that's just very basic. It's the reason we get quest rewards and achievements in the first place. There are nice rewards exclusive to the primary target audience for all the types of content. That should not change. The target audience for overland is everyone (but especially casuals) so that is where the big overland rewards should come from. Nobody wants to know they missed out on like a mount and will have to roll an alt out and gear out to vet specs because they beat Rada Al'Saran at level 20.

    Something like blue gear instead of purple gear is fine. But hard no to anything fancy like dyes cosmetics, special weapons, etc. That stuff is better suited to things like arenas.

    Easiest way to lose casual players. And this game doesn't run without them. They are the majority.

    I would agree that there should be no special gear for a veteran version of overland. I do believe there should be improved drops; I.E. blue instead of green, or purple instead of blue. But 0 achievements, 0 dyes, no special mat drops, nothing like that. Just a slightly improved version of the same gear that someone on normal would get.
  • Franchise408
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    vingarmo wrote: »
    Increased rewards for completing veteran vs normal are only fair because you already spending more time and effort doing it.

    If a player is forced to complete veteran content, as was the case with Cadwell's Silver and Gold, then better rewards would make sense. But that is not what is happening here. Players asking for veteran overland say they find the fights too easy and not engaging and want a more difficult experience to enhance their immersion. This is something they are asking for, not being forced into, and there should not be increased rewards for it. The more immersive experience is the reward.

    vingarmo wrote: »
    Never mind that developers themselves stated that one of the main reasons they hesitant on doing this experiment, because they are not sure how to incentivize it.

    When Rich Lambert addressed that he didn't say they were hesitant to do this or that they were even considering it. What he said was:

    "Would it be an option just to give people the choice? It is not as simple as just flip a switch and make things more difficult. There is a TON of work and then as Lucky mentioned earlier you have to also incentivize that. Like just making something more difficult for no reason, if you’re not going to get anything out of it why do it? The satisfaction's there sure but players are always going to do the thing that is the most efficient and is the least difficult thing for their time."

    So, you know like I said, we went down that route. We built the game with difficulty in mind and 2/3rds of the game was never played by players so we changed it.
    - Rich Lambert

    Why shouldn't there be more rewards?

    Actually, to better define the argument, define the rewards that you think are being asked for.

    Because I can tell you exactly what is being asked for, and it is no different than what is already in the game with *optional* vet dungeons and trials - the same gear, but slightly better quality.

    I.E. if you do a normal dungeon, you get blue gear from the sets that are available in the dungeon. If you do a veteran dungeon, you get the same gear (nothing different), except the quality is in purple, rather than blue.

    The same thing would apply to "vet overland". If a quest gives you a green item, the item would instead be blue on veteran.

    It would not be a different set piece. It would not come with dyes, achievement titles, or extra mats. It would simply be a blue item of the same gear that drops in green on normal.

    I've seen you many times worried about people who don't play on veteran being left out of the higher rewards, but this is a non-issue.

    1. Anyone who is playing on normal instead of vet, gear doesn't matter, so the difference between green / blue, or blue / purple is 100% irrelevant to players playing on normal.
    2. The gear that drops in overland zones are not the sets that are being used for content where gear is a factor. Outside of maybe Mother's Sorrow, which at this point is being phased out of the meta anyways, nobody is using overland gear for gear dependent content, so anyone playing normal is not going to be missing out on anything.
    3. The ability to upgrade from green to blue or even blue to purple via crafting skills is so easy that players playing on normal won't be missing out on top quality gear, because they will be able to have their gear obtained on normal upgraded with ease. In fact, upgrading gear from even blue to purple is *so* easy that even end-game vet players do gear farming on normal, because it is easier to play on normal for gear farming and upgrading the gear to the level they want than it is to play on veteran for gear farming and getting the gear already upgraded. So people won't be playing vet overland for gear farming anyways.

    In MMO's, it is standard that there is a higher level of loot for higher level of content, and giving upgraded drops in a veteran overland remains consistent with the design of the game already in place. We are not asking for Relequen's to drop from Grahtwood questing. We are not asking for new dyes, motifs, and style pages to be made and drop for our veteran overland. While those things may drop in vet DLC dungeons and vet trials, that is content where the difference between normal and veteran is massive. Overland content, even if a veteran version were to be made, should not be the content where unique drops like that happen. The difference in loot being asked for is the difference between 210 gold and a green piece of Necropotence, versus 275 gold and a blue piece of Necropotence. Players playing on normal will not be missing out in the slightest with that system, just as they don't now in dungeons and trials.
  • spartaxoxo
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    Araxyte wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    We're just speculating the idea, not the finer details of rewards. Normal mode player 1 gets 1k coins, hard mode player 2 gets 1.1k coins if needed... just add something for the players that want the challenge

    Something like a bit more coin and exp wouldn't be objectionable to me. Or even something like the same gear drops for both, but one is blue and one is green quality. That sort of small thing.

    But I really do have to state I am totally opposed to something like motifs, dyes, achievements, etc. Because Overland content is one and done content, and is supposed to be unifying. I can personally do vet content no problem, but I know people who cannot. One of the people I play with in this game I know irl and he is 100% disabled. That there is content both get the same rewards is meaningful to me. I know for a fact he'd quit, for one. But also I like the spirit of it. That there is content in this game we can all do, and then content for people who want a bit of an extra challenge.

    Arguably, the overland and it's quests are the largest part of this game. Telling every player that wants a challenge and potentially more rewards when questing that they should just go do vet dungeons isn't really balanced imo. There needs to be some options for such a large chunk of the game. Everyone wants a different experience when questing.

    I didn't say if you want more challenge, do dungeons.

    I said if you want exclusive dyes, do dungeons.

    These are only the same thing to people who have a specific vision of Overland that I'm totally opposed to because I know a lot of people would quit. If this isn't about getting more special rewards for doing the same quests as casuals, but about the immersion that comes from challenge, that shouldn't be a bad statement.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on November 2, 2021 4:19PM
  • SilverBride
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    Anyone who is playing on normal instead of vet, gear doesn't matter, so the difference between green / blue, or blue / purple is 100% irrelevant to players playing on normal.

    Why doesn't gear matter? I don't just hang around overland all day. Sometimes I want a challenge so I solo dungeons and have started running solo arenas, and group arenas with a friend. I need to be properly geared for these, and need decent sets to get started.

    Just because I don't want every single thing in the game to be a challenge doesn't mean I never want one or don't care about being geared.

    The gear that drops in overland zones are not the sets that are being used for content where gear is a factor. Outside of maybe Mother's Sorrow, which at this point is being phased out of the meta anyways, nobody is using overland gear for gear dependent content, so anyone playing normal is not going to be missing out on anything.

    Then why should there be better gear for players who run veteran overland if it's not going to help them either?

    The ability to upgrade from green to blue or even blue to purple via crafting skills is so easy that players playing on normal won't be missing out on top quality gear, because they will be able to have their gear obtained on normal upgraded with ease.

    The same holds true for those running veteran overland. They don't need top gear from playing the base game, which is what overland is.

    In MMO's, it is standard that there is a higher level of loot for higher level of content...

    And the standard is also that the challenging content is in dungeons and raids and trials, not in the questing zones.
    Edited by SilverBride on November 2, 2021 4:28PM
    PCNA
  • spartaxoxo
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    Then why should there be better gear for players who run veteran overland if it's not going to help them either?

    Because it shouldn't be about punishing people for wanting a challenge, it should be about ensuring the core experience that the existing system already provides isn't undermined.

    Stuff like achievements, cosmetics, etc undermines the health of the casual population because Overland content is not repeatable on the same character.

    However, blue vs purple gear doesn't have literally any of the problems that those do. It's not going to cause fomo and pulls vet players away from new ones (and a unification point for these types is important to population health). It's not going to be something that someone resents they can't get later because they already did the quest. Etc. Etc.

    Since gear being purple instead of blue causes no problems for casuals, not giving vet players these minor and common rewards is just gonna feel like spite for them using vet. And spite shouldn't be the reason to limit player rewards for content they complete.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on November 2, 2021 4:39PM
  • jle30303
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    I'll say it again:

    If you want increased challenge, go to the parts of the game that are already increased difficulty, rather than demanding that increased difficulty come to the easy bits.
  • SydneyGrey
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    Overland content is fine. The people on this forum tend to be the die-hard players who have been here for years, and they've already mastered the game, so they find overland easy. New players do NOT find it that easy.
    You need to continually add harder content for the veteran players, while keeping most overland areas relatively easy. Basically, don't change the game just because the veteran players yell the loudest.

    I remember being a brand new player and having a tough time getting through a delve. Now I can breeze through a delve easily, but that doesn't mean I'm going to suggest making all the delves harder just because I personally can do them easily now. I've just mastered the game like the other veteran players have. I think a lot of players have forgotten what it's like to be a new player with zero gold and zero armor.
  • ZOS_Volpe
    ZOS_Volpe
    admin
    Greetings,

    We have edited and removed some baiting comments as well as some back and forth from this thread. Please ensure you are treating others with respect on the forums even when they have views that differ from your own. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.
    Edited by ZOS_Volpe on November 2, 2021 5:57PM
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  • Araxyte
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    SydneyGrey wrote: »
    Overland content is fine. The people on this forum tend to be the die-hard players who have been here for years, and they've already mastered the game, so they find overland easy. New players do NOT find it that easy.
    You need to continually add harder content for the veteran players, while keeping most overland areas relatively easy. Basically, don't change the game just because the veteran players yell the loudest.

    I remember being a brand new player and having a tough time getting through a delve. Now I can breeze through a delve easily, but that doesn't mean I'm going to suggest making all the delves harder just because I personally can do them easily now. I've just mastered the game like the other veteran players have. I think a lot of players have forgotten what it's like to be a new player with zero gold and zero armor.

    You seemed to have to ignored all the previous posts about having a toggle option which make the questing more difficult for you, no one else. People that want a harder challenge should be able to get a series of debuffs on them to make the encounters a bit more difficult for them. This is what this thread is about, finding ways around this issue with suggestions. Not stating over and over again how all us vet players should go do dungeons. The majority of this game is overland, we have every right to come up with suggestions on how we can make this content more enjoyable for everyone as long as it doesn't affect others.
    | All classes | PC EU |
  • Fermian
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    SydneyGrey wrote: »
    Overland content is fine. The people on this forum tend to be the die-hard players who have been here for years, and they've already mastered the game, so they find overland easy. New players do NOT find it that easy.
    You need to continually add harder content for the veteran players, while keeping most overland areas relatively easy. Basically, don't change the game just because the veteran players yell the loudest.

    I remember being a brand new player and having a tough time getting through a delve. Now I can breeze through a delve easily, but that doesn't mean I'm going to suggest making all the delves harder just because I personally can do them easily now. I've just mastered the game like the other veteran players have. I think a lot of players have forgotten what it's like to be a new player with zero gold and zero armor.

    Not true at all, maybe its even more relevant for casual players. They have less time available to enjoy all aspects of the game. At least thats the case for me.

    New players should not play in vet anyway.
  • SilverBride
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    Araxyte wrote: »
    People that want a harder challenge should be able to get a series of debuffs on them to make the encounters a bit more difficult for them. This is what this thread is about, finding ways around this issue with suggestions. Not stating over and over again how all us vet players should go do dungeons. The majority of this game is overland, we have every right to come up with suggestions on how we can make this content more enjoyable for everyone as long as it doesn't affect others.

    I completely agree with you and hope the discussion will veer away from "Do we need a veteran overland?" and more toward "How can we make overland enjoyable for more players?" But this is the crux of the debate. We all have different ideas on how to accomplish this.

    My feedback is that I am against a separate veteran overland instance, optional or otherwise, but am perfectly fine with player debuffs and optional veteran story bosses. I believe that any solution must not separate the playerbase or take a lot of valuable manpower and resources away from the rest of the game.

    Edit: I want to add that I think the overland drops and rewards should remain the same for all players regardless of the difficulty they choose, because this is the base game and should present equal opportunity for all.
    Edited by SilverBride on November 2, 2021 7:47PM
    PCNA
  • Fermian
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    Wouldnt mind the debuff option. But at the same time there are lots of players running around in all zones. So is this really an issue.
  • spartaxoxo
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    My feedback is that I am against a separate veteran overland instance, optional or otherwise, but am perfectly fine with player debuffs and optional veteran story bosses. I believe that any solution must not separate the playerbase or take a lot of valuable manpower and resources away from the rest of the game.

    I agree with this much. I also support other solutions.

    Some ideas that I support

    Debuff food/toggle in the same instance as everyone else
    Challenge Banners for story bosses
    New stuff like the roaming bosses
  • AzuraFan
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    Araxyte wrote: »
    We're just speculating the idea, not the finer details of rewards. Normal mode player 1 gets 1k coins, hard mode player 2 gets 1.1k coins if needed... just add something for the players that want the challenge

    The extra reward is that you would feel more engaged and challenged by the more difficult overland. Isn't that what you keep saying you want? Then that should be plenty. If you want extra rewards, you go to trials and vet content.

    Choosing the more difficult option doesn't make you special, doesn't make you a better player (I'm betting there will be skilled players who do NOT choose the more difficult overland option), doesn't make you deserve anything more than players who don't choose it. It would just mean you want a challenge when you play overland.

    I would be perfectly fine with an optional hard mode for overland. I would oppose any extra rewards for players who choose that option. Rewards should be the same for normal and hard mode overland. [snip]

    [Edit for Bait.]
    Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on November 2, 2021 10:27PM
  • Aliniel
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    Veteran overland with separate instance might bring more problems than solutions.
    • There's a chance one of the two will be empty or less populated.
    • There seems to be expectation (like in other kind of normal vs veteran content) for extra/better rewards.
    • The complexity of the game will grow. Now we have to shard players based on veteran/non-veteran setting.
    • Veteran Overland would mean there's "another difficulty" available. But this difficulty could be too hard, or too easy than what people expect and want. There's no middle ground like with slider/debuff options. We can invent as many debuffs as we want to.
    • As far as I know, there's no way to intentionally switch shard right now. But if there's a Vet/Non-vet toggle does that mean you get instantly switched? This could be abused to farm bossed, anchors, etc.

    Veteran Overland sounds way too much like Cadwell Silver/Gold used to be and ZOS made is very clear they were unhappy about that. I wouldn't expect they would go for it again.
  • Ynrael
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    In the old days of Everquest II, most overland mob spawns would be normal strength, but there was a chance that they could spawn understrength, say -1 to -3 on an abitrary toughness scale. They could also spawn overstrength, +1 to +5 on that scale, with +5 being at group level or almost at ESO WB level. I liked this idea as it removed the uniformity of predictable mobs and you could go howling into a group of gnolls only to find a +4 "commander" lurking at the back and have to do a hasty retreat.

    As an alternative to randomness, a spawned mob could have an age timer, the older it gets, the tougher it becomes. If the loot drops were scaled accordingly, then this would be good incentive to explore remote areas of the game in the hunt for tougher mobs and better loot, although, admittedly much harder to implement.
  • SimonThesis
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    Mobs already adjust to your level, I think after max level they should also adjust to your gear. If you're in gold perfected trial and perfected arena sets they should be more challenging. If your just wearing crafted gear they should be easier. Rewards stay the same. This option would please all involved, want a harder experience wear your trial gear, want an easier casual experience just put on whatever.
    Edited by SimonThesis on November 2, 2021 8:00PM
  • SilverBride
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    Mobs already adjust to your level, I think after max level they should also adjust to your gear. If you're in gold perfected trial and perfected arena sets they should be more challenging. If your just wearing crafted gear they should be easier. Rewards stay the same. This option would please all involved, want a harder experience wear your trial gear, want an easier casual experience just put on whatever.

    I am against this because it would force more difficult mobs on players who may not want it.

    I was always very casual in my gear and it's only been the past few months that I got more serious and decked my characters out in 2 full sets with the right traits and enchants. I was surprised by just how much stronger I became and I love it. I love being able to solo things I couldn't before. I love that I am stronger and can easily take down mobs I had struggled with before.

    I do not want this taken away from me.
    PCNA
  • Caroloces
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    One of the things to consider on this issue is the dilemma of player progression through the accumulation of champion points, and the static nature of NPCs in all of the PVE content. As you gain more CPs, you presumably become more powerful while the non-player antagonists of Tamriel remain fixed in the attributes that make them threatening, and this pertains as well to the so-called end game content like veteran dungeons and trials. Currently, the CP cap is at 3600. Personally, I'm at 1388, and I've seen players in my guild gradually approaching 2000. I'm sure in a year or so, the CP cap will be raised again, perhaps approaching 5000 or 6000. Basically, this means that making one's way through the overland content and vet dungeons and trials will progressively become easier and easier.

    So the question is, even for casual players: When does the ease of combat become stultifying and boring? Even though I'm a proponent of challenging overland content in some form, I empathize with players who simply want to relax and flow with ease through the zone stories without the hassle of struggling with skeevers and mudcrabs. There are many evenings when I love to kick back and go through these zone stories without a struggle. I learn something new about the lore and the conflicts each time I have a new character go through these zones. And I still find occasional challenges with some of the World Bosses.

    But the CP progression presents an ominous and growing dilemma to the future of this game. I'm reminded of some past episodes of ESO Live where the dungeon designer, Mike Finnigan, demonstrated a walk-through of new dungeons and each time he came to a dangerous area, he would press a key on his keyboard and all of the mobs and bosses would just collapse in death. If I ever achieved those lofty CP levels of 3000 or higher, would casting a single AOE achieve the same result? I don't think I'd like that, for what would be the point in doing the dungeon at all?

    Perhaps the simplest solution to this issue is to have a mechanism where players can either disable their champion points or have antagonists in the game adjust their attributes based on the player's level of CP or the collective group CP.
  • spartaxoxo
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    Caroloces wrote: »
    .But the CP progression presents an ominous and growing dilemma to the future of this game.

    No, it doesn't. Almost all the added nodes have required slotting. More CP past this point=/= more power, a lot of it sits wasted in nodes you aren't even using once you get all your passives.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on November 2, 2021 8:27PM
  • SilverBride
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    Caroloces wrote: »
    Perhaps the simplest solution to this issue is to have a mechanism where players can either disable their champion points or have antagonists in the game adjust their attributes based on the player's level of CP or the collective group CP.

    Only if this were optional.
    PCNA
  • Sylvermynx
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    Mobs already adjust to your level, I think after max level they should also adjust to your gear. If you're in gold perfected trial and perfected arena sets they should be more challenging. If your just wearing crafted gear they should be easier. Rewards stay the same. This option would please all involved, want a harder experience wear your trial gear, want an easier casual experience just put on whatever.

    That would probably work for me. I never use anything but crafted gear since I don't care for the content where you get really "wonderful" set gear (dungeons and endgame content)
  • Araxyte
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    AzuraFan wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    We're just speculating the idea, not the finer details of rewards. Normal mode player 1 gets 1k coins, hard mode player 2 gets 1.1k coins if needed... just add something for the players that want the challenge

    The extra reward is that you would feel more engaged and challenged by the more difficult overland. Isn't that what you keep saying you want? Then that should be plenty. If you want extra rewards, you go to trials and vet content.

    Choosing the more difficult option doesn't make you special, doesn't make you a better player (I'm betting there will be skilled players who do NOT choose the more difficult overland option), doesn't make you deserve anything more than players who don't choose it. It would just mean you want a challenge when you play overland.

    I would be perfectly fine with an optional hard mode for overland. I would oppose any extra rewards for players who choose that option. Rewards should be the same for normal and hard mode overland. [snip]

    [Edit for Bait.]

    Of course some people would play hard mode without a reward. But other people would also like to gain something from it. Alot of the players on this thread ,and a hella lot more in-game, would like that. If a good balance between challenge and reward can be found then I don't see the issue. You could offer no reward other than a small achievement for doing something.

    [snip] I'm allowed to make suggestions on how I think ZOS could implement this change. Mine is this small reward incentive, which believe it or not, some people would like. That's fine if players disagree [snip]

    [Edit for Bait.]
    Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on November 2, 2021 10:28PM
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  • ZOS_GregoryV
    Greetings all!

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  • KalyanLazair
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    Please forgive me as I haven't read the whole thread because it's huge, but I would like to add my two cents.

    IMO raising difficulty in overland content, particularly newer maps, wouldn't be a terrible thing as long as it is well balanced, that is, it does not penalize newer players. It is true that overland for the likes of those that are more experienced is a breeze. I can rush my way through a group delve leaving nothing alive in seconds, and bosses are not very challenging at all. However I must also think about newer players and how frustrating it is to get stuck in a boss. Still I do admit overland combat is too easy.

    However, another issue and I believe it's an even bigger one is that the format has gotten stale. We are getting a small piece of land with a few delves, a group delve and a story that involves a daedric entity doing daedric things. Wrothgar and Morrowind are, for me, the two best zones in the game (DLC wise). They're large, they have plenty of things to do, plenty of quests and the story is a lot of fun to play. I'm a quester so a good story is something I value a lot. In contrast the Skyrim DLC was disappointing, the two areas feel empty and the story was predictable and not that engaging. Perhaps the reachmen story was better, but it still was nothing compared to the political crisis in Orsinium, or the quest involving Naryu and the Morag Tong in Vvardenfell.

    It feels like the game has been exploiting the same format over for several years, and it lacks originality. In all honesty, I'd rather wait a full year, or even two years, for a huge area with hours of gameplay. The game as it is now has gotten predictable and boring, and even when the Blackwood story is not terrible in itself, the fact the area is so tiny and that it's yet another daedric story it doesn't really stand out. I think the game needs some fresh air, like, a real breath of fresh air.

    The fact that more and more threads concerning overland keep popping us should be a big, red flag as to how stale the game has gotten.

    Also, revise that RNG. We should work towards achieving the things we get, but when it all depends on random drops and you spend weeks trying to farm something, it causes frustration, exhaustion and that is not something you want your players to feel if you want to keep them around. When that point is reached it just takes a minor trigger to do a rage quit.
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