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Overland Content Feedback Thread

  • Blackbird_V
    Blackbird_V
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Khenarthi wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    [*] Quest reward overhaul: Receive a reward chest at the end of a quest depending on the type of quest you have completed. The reward chest rolls on a drop table for various material, motif, cash, furniture or armour set rewards. Each chest has access to the same drop table with the greater chests having a better chance of better loot.
    [*] An optional challenge mode toggle for overland quests: A list of debuffs are afflicted onto your character depending on the challenge you have selected. A collectible tool can toggle these effects on and off in case you decide it is too difficult, or you need to go do something else entirely. Cancelling the challenge will fail the challenge however. Upon completion of the quest and challenge you receive a better rewards chest which has a slightly increased drop chance of better loot from the same drop table as the other chests, a little something for your efforts.

    See, I do not see why you should have "a little something for your efforts" as you put it for choosing the harder mode. If the point is that overland is too easy and not engaging, then getting better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode should not be necessary. Your reward is doing it on the difficulty you want.

    This to me is a huge point of contention.

    Lets remove perfected trial gear, undaunted plunder, golden jewellery, skins titles and achievements from them! Because ya know, not necessary having better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode.
    Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.
  • Khenarthi
    Khenarthi
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    Khenarthi wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    [*] Quest reward overhaul: Receive a reward chest at the end of a quest depending on the type of quest you have completed. The reward chest rolls on a drop table for various material, motif, cash, furniture or armour set rewards. Each chest has access to the same drop table with the greater chests having a better chance of better loot.
    [*] An optional challenge mode toggle for overland quests: A list of debuffs are afflicted onto your character depending on the challenge you have selected. A collectible tool can toggle these effects on and off in case you decide it is too difficult, or you need to go do something else entirely. Cancelling the challenge will fail the challenge however. Upon completion of the quest and challenge you receive a better rewards chest which has a slightly increased drop chance of better loot from the same drop table as the other chests, a little something for your efforts.

    See, I do not see why you should have "a little something for your efforts" as you put it for choosing the harder mode. If the point is that overland is too easy and not engaging, then getting better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode should not be necessary. Your reward is doing it on the difficulty you want.

    This to me is a huge point of contention.

    Lets remove perfected trial gear, undaunted plunder, golden jewellery, skins titles and achievements from them! Because ya know, not necessary having better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode.

    I'd be fine with that, too. I see them as ways to show off and create envy, not positive feelings.
    PC-EU
  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Khenarthi wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    [*] Quest reward overhaul: Receive a reward chest at the end of a quest depending on the type of quest you have completed. The reward chest rolls on a drop table for various material, motif, cash, furniture or armour set rewards. Each chest has access to the same drop table with the greater chests having a better chance of better loot.
    [*] An optional challenge mode toggle for overland quests: A list of debuffs are afflicted onto your character depending on the challenge you have selected. A collectible tool can toggle these effects on and off in case you decide it is too difficult, or you need to go do something else entirely. Cancelling the challenge will fail the challenge however. Upon completion of the quest and challenge you receive a better rewards chest which has a slightly increased drop chance of better loot from the same drop table as the other chests, a little something for your efforts.

    See, I do not see why you should have "a little something for your efforts" as you put it for choosing the harder mode. If the point is that overland is too easy and not engaging, then getting better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode should not be necessary. Your reward is doing it on the difficulty you want.

    This to me is a huge point of contention.

    Lets remove perfected trial gear, undaunted plunder, golden jewellery, skins titles and achievements from them! Because ya know, not necessary having better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode.

    That content is meant for experienced players. Story mode is meant for everyone. If new and casual players have nothing where the rewards are tailored towards them, there is zero reason whatsoever for them to play.
  • Blackbird_V
    Blackbird_V
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Khenarthi wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    [*] Quest reward overhaul: Receive a reward chest at the end of a quest depending on the type of quest you have completed. The reward chest rolls on a drop table for various material, motif, cash, furniture or armour set rewards. Each chest has access to the same drop table with the greater chests having a better chance of better loot.
    [*] An optional challenge mode toggle for overland quests: A list of debuffs are afflicted onto your character depending on the challenge you have selected. A collectible tool can toggle these effects on and off in case you decide it is too difficult, or you need to go do something else entirely. Cancelling the challenge will fail the challenge however. Upon completion of the quest and challenge you receive a better rewards chest which has a slightly increased drop chance of better loot from the same drop table as the other chests, a little something for your efforts.

    See, I do not see why you should have "a little something for your efforts" as you put it for choosing the harder mode. If the point is that overland is too easy and not engaging, then getting better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode should not be necessary. Your reward is doing it on the difficulty you want.

    This to me is a huge point of contention.

    Lets remove perfected trial gear, undaunted plunder, golden jewellery, skins titles and achievements from them! Because ya know, not necessary having better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode.

    That content is meant for experienced players. Story mode is meant for everyone. If new and casual players have nothing where the rewards are tailored towards them, there is zero reason whatsoever for them to play.

    Ok lets do veteran overland mode where it's meant for experienced players, oh and lets cater some rewards for us since we're experienced! Seems like a good idea to me. They want to quest for fun, quest points and to be casual, then good for them. They should be rewarded for their time, sure. People who wanna do and complete harder content should be catered differently. If they want better rewards, then work for it.
    Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.
  • Ravensilver
    Ravensilver
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    Sylvermynx wrote: »
    I don't. By the time I'd spent a decade in first WoW and then RIFT, I was so deathly TIRED of having to grind levels then gear then go into new raids.... SO not fun....

    So this!

    I've been playing video games (and yes, I use that description deliberately) for about the last 50 years or so. I've done the grind. And the raids. And the mythics. And whatever else the developers deemed neccessary to fill out the story content.
    And I've reached the point where I've gotten really tired of it.

    Yes, it probably has to do with my age. And the fact that my hands aren't getting any better and I'm happy if I manage to get through a vet dungeon without my fingers seizing up.

    I remember ESO before OT. I remember dying to the same story boss again, and again, and again. And finally leaving, because I was getting so frustrated at not being able to continue the story.

    The same thing happened to me in EQ2, too, by the way. By the time I left (when Sony sold us all down the river to Daybreak), my questbook was full of quests that I couldn't finish, because the last step was always something involving Elite mobs, that I couldn't kill, even if they were 20 or 30 levels below me. And no one grouped anymore, because all the fast and high gear players were through with that content.

    I love ESO, because it allows me to play at my own pace. To spend evenings after work just exploring, enjoying a quest or two (I, personally LOVE the story lines and often wish that there were many, many, MANY more quests to do... even in the 'old' zones), harvesting, finding treasure chests and so on. I love that fights in overland are quick, and often even avoidable.

    I don't really see where making overland 'vet' would really add valuable content. So instead of killing the wolf or bear or senche in 1 minute, I need 10? But it's still the same old wolf/bear/senche. It doesn't do anything different. It's just harder to kill.

    Will we be repeating the same quests over and over, on the same character, only with increasing difficulty? How would this be more fun? It's still the same quest (even though I wouldn't mind doing some again... they were fun). And what happens if I repeat the quest and choose different the second, third, twentieth time around? How will my world change?

    Doing a 'vet' overland may sound like fun for the first week or so... but I am quite sure that after a while it will just get tedious. There's nothing NEW there. The content is the same. The mobs are the same. The story is the same.

    Now, if you are really expecting the devs to actually implement wide reaching changes to the story, the mobs, the content, just to make a 'vet' version, then you're asking them to make a whole new game. And that will take away time, manpower and money from the current content that is being developed.

    I would much rather have continuing content at the same level as currently, than not see any new content for years, just because ZOS now puts in time and effort into making a ESO 2.0 that exists concurrently with the current version.

    Are you willing to pay more for a vet version? That might peak ZOS' interest.

    And then, of course, there are all the concerns that were voiced in the 40 page thread that preceeded this one. These concerns are still valid. How will they be adressed?

    All in all, I am *very* happy with the way ESO is right now. If an optional version, without extra loot, achievements or other rewards, can be made with little dev time, then so be it. I don't think it will be popular for long, but ok.

    But for me, ESO is perfect just the way it is. And I hope it remains this way for a long, long time, so I still have something to play in my old age... ^^;;;
  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
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    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Khenarthi wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    [*] Quest reward overhaul: Receive a reward chest at the end of a quest depending on the type of quest you have completed. The reward chest rolls on a drop table for various material, motif, cash, furniture or armour set rewards. Each chest has access to the same drop table with the greater chests having a better chance of better loot.
    [*] An optional challenge mode toggle for overland quests: A list of debuffs are afflicted onto your character depending on the challenge you have selected. A collectible tool can toggle these effects on and off in case you decide it is too difficult, or you need to go do something else entirely. Cancelling the challenge will fail the challenge however. Upon completion of the quest and challenge you receive a better rewards chest which has a slightly increased drop chance of better loot from the same drop table as the other chests, a little something for your efforts.

    See, I do not see why you should have "a little something for your efforts" as you put it for choosing the harder mode. If the point is that overland is too easy and not engaging, then getting better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode should not be necessary. Your reward is doing it on the difficulty you want.

    This to me is a huge point of contention.

    Lets remove perfected trial gear, undaunted plunder, golden jewellery, skins titles and achievements from them! Because ya know, not necessary having better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode.

    That content is meant for experienced players. Story mode is meant for everyone. If new and casual players have nothing where the rewards are tailored towards them, there is zero reason whatsoever for them to play.

    Ok lets do veteran overland mode where it's meant for experienced players, oh and lets cater some rewards for us since we're experienced! Seems like a good idea to me. They want to quest for fun, quest points and to be casual, then good for them. They should be rewarded for their time, sure. People who wanna do and complete harder content should be catered differently. If they want better rewards, then work for it.

    Story mode can only be done once per character.

    So, your statement amounts to "Veteran players should be the only ones that should have a rewarding experience where they can complete content meant for them." And if you don't see how taking literally everything for only one group of players and causing everyone else to quit is a problem, idk what to tell ya. Enjoy your shinies on a quickly dead game, I suppose.

    New and casual players must have something rewarding all to themselves. You don't need extra cookies for everything. There's zero reason why something meant to add immersion to story should come with anything special. Something like purple drop instead of blue is one thing, exclusive rewards and junk is another thing entirely
    Edited by spartaxoxo on November 2, 2021 12:42PM
  • Aliniel
    Aliniel
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    I am very much in for the customizable difficulty, but at the same tame very against extra rewards.

    Questing is the casual part of every MMO. People shouldn't be forced to play it at higher difficulty. They shouldn't feel pressured into it. They shouldn't feel any kind of fear about missing out. They shouldn't need to ask for help in order to finish "solo content".
    It needs to stay accessible to everyone. Otherwise, it may very well hurt the community as people start giving up on the game.

    Again, some of us want a bit more challenge while doing quests. After all, you spend a pretty decent amount of time questing even if you don't redo it on multiple characters multiple times. And we want this to be optional. We don't want to force it on anyone. And most of us would be happy without any extra rewards.
  • Blackbird_V
    Blackbird_V
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    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Khenarthi wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    [*] Quest reward overhaul: Receive a reward chest at the end of a quest depending on the type of quest you have completed. The reward chest rolls on a drop table for various material, motif, cash, furniture or armour set rewards. Each chest has access to the same drop table with the greater chests having a better chance of better loot.
    [*] An optional challenge mode toggle for overland quests: A list of debuffs are afflicted onto your character depending on the challenge you have selected. A collectible tool can toggle these effects on and off in case you decide it is too difficult, or you need to go do something else entirely. Cancelling the challenge will fail the challenge however. Upon completion of the quest and challenge you receive a better rewards chest which has a slightly increased drop chance of better loot from the same drop table as the other chests, a little something for your efforts.

    See, I do not see why you should have "a little something for your efforts" as you put it for choosing the harder mode. If the point is that overland is too easy and not engaging, then getting better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode should not be necessary. Your reward is doing it on the difficulty you want.

    This to me is a huge point of contention.

    Lets remove perfected trial gear, undaunted plunder, golden jewellery, skins titles and achievements from them! Because ya know, not necessary having better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode.

    That content is meant for experienced players. Story mode is meant for everyone. If new and casual players have nothing where the rewards are tailored towards them, there is zero reason whatsoever for them to play.

    Ok lets do veteran overland mode where it's meant for experienced players, oh and lets cater some rewards for us since we're experienced! Seems like a good idea to me. They want to quest for fun, quest points and to be casual, then good for them. They should be rewarded for their time, sure. People who wanna do and complete harder content should be catered differently. If they want better rewards, then work for it.

    Story mode can only be done once per character.

    So, your statement amounts to "Veteran players should be the only ones that should have a rewarding experience where they can complete content meant for them." And if you don't see how taking literally everything for only one group of players and causing everyone else to quit is a problem, idk what to tell ya. Enjoy your shinies on a quickly dead game, I suppose.

    New and casual players must have something rewarding all to themselves. You don't need extra cookies for everything. There's zero reason why something meant to add immersion to story should come with anything special. Something like purple drop instead of blue is one thing, exclusive rewards and junk is another thing entirely

    How on Earth will people quit over a veteran overland, that can only be completed once? [snip]

    New and casual players get skill points, some gold and experience. That should be rewarding to them. If they want better rewards then they should work for it. If not, then that's on them. If they get frustrated and quit over that then that's just petty imo. We can literally compare this to vet content we have now: they work for it, learn to get better....... or get carried.

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on November 2, 2021 2:05PM
    Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.
  • Toxic_Hemlock
    Toxic_Hemlock
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    [
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Khenarthi wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    [*] Quest reward overhaul: Receive a reward chest at the end of a quest depending on the type of quest you have completed. The reward chest rolls on a drop table for various material, motif, cash, furniture or armour set rewards. Each chest has access to the same drop table with the greater chests having a better chance of better loot.
    [*] An optional challenge mode toggle for overland quests: A list of debuffs are afflicted onto your character depending on the challenge you have selected. A collectible tool can toggle these effects on and off in case you decide it is too difficult, or you need to go do something else entirely. Cancelling the challenge will fail the challenge however. Upon completion of the quest and challenge you receive a better rewards chest which has a slightly increased drop chance of better loot from the same drop table as the other chests, a little something for your efforts.

    See, I do not see why you should have "a little something for your efforts" as you put it for choosing the harder mode. If the point is that overland is too easy and not engaging, then getting better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode should not be necessary. Your reward is doing it on the difficulty you want.

    This to me is a huge point of contention.

    Lets remove perfected trial gear, undaunted plunder, golden jewellery, skins titles and achievements from them! Because ya know, not necessary having better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode.

    That content is meant for experienced players. Story mode is meant for everyone. If new and casual players have nothing where the rewards are tailored towards them, there is zero reason whatsoever for them to play.

    Ok lets do veteran overland mode where it's meant for experienced players, oh and lets cater some rewards for us since we're experienced! Seems like a good idea to me. They want to quest for fun, quest points and to be casual, then good for them. They should be rewarded for their time, sure. People who wanna do and complete harder content should be catered differently. If they want better rewards, then work for it.

    Story mode can only be done once per character.

    So, your statement amounts to "Veteran players should be the only ones that should have a rewarding experience where they can complete content meant for them." And if you don't see how taking literally everything for only one group of players and causing everyone else to quit is a problem, idk what to tell ya. Enjoy your shinies on a quickly dead game, I suppose.

    New and casual players must have something rewarding all to themselves. You don't need extra cookies for everything. There's zero reason why something meant to add immersion to story should come with anything special. Something like purple drop instead of blue is one thing, exclusive rewards and junk is another thing entirely

    How on Earth will people quit over a veteran overland, that can only be completed once? [snip]

    New and casual players get skill points, some gold and experience. That should be rewarding to them. If they want better rewards then they should work for it. If not, then that's on them. If they get frustrated and quit over that then that's just petty imo. We can literally compare this to vet content we have now: they work for it, learn to get better....... or get carried.

    Oh I'd quit in a hot second. I want to relax NOT have to spend 5 minutes (of course an exaggeration) killing a skeever. [snip] Many of us play a game to relax according to this thread and dying every fight is not gonna make us get gud, but it will make us start playing something else.

    [edited for baiting & to remove quote]
    Edited by Toxic_Hemlock on November 2, 2021 3:41PM
  • matterandstuff
    matterandstuff
    ✭✭✭✭
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Khenarthi wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    [*] Quest reward overhaul: Receive a reward chest at the end of a quest depending on the type of quest you have completed. The reward chest rolls on a drop table for various material, motif, cash, furniture or armour set rewards. Each chest has access to the same drop table with the greater chests having a better chance of better loot.
    [*] An optional challenge mode toggle for overland quests: A list of debuffs are afflicted onto your character depending on the challenge you have selected. A collectible tool can toggle these effects on and off in case you decide it is too difficult, or you need to go do something else entirely. Cancelling the challenge will fail the challenge however. Upon completion of the quest and challenge you receive a better rewards chest which has a slightly increased drop chance of better loot from the same drop table as the other chests, a little something for your efforts.

    See, I do not see why you should have "a little something for your efforts" as you put it for choosing the harder mode. If the point is that overland is too easy and not engaging, then getting better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode should not be necessary. Your reward is doing it on the difficulty you want.

    This to me is a huge point of contention.

    Lets remove perfected trial gear, undaunted plunder, golden jewellery, skins titles and achievements from them! Because ya know, not necessary having better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode.

    That content is meant for experienced players. Story mode is meant for everyone. If new and casual players have nothing where the rewards are tailored towards them, there is zero reason whatsoever for them to play.

    Ok lets do veteran overland mode where it's meant for experienced players, oh and lets cater some rewards for us since we're experienced! Seems like a good idea to me. They want to quest for fun, quest points and to be casual, then good for them. They should be rewarded for their time, sure. People who wanna do and complete harder content should be catered differently. If they want better rewards, then work for it.

    Story mode can only be done once per character.

    So, your statement amounts to "Veteran players should be the only ones that should have a rewarding experience where they can complete content meant for them." And if you don't see how taking literally everything for only one group of players and causing everyone else to quit is a problem, idk what to tell ya. Enjoy your shinies on a quickly dead game, I suppose.

    New and casual players must have something rewarding all to themselves. You don't need extra cookies for everything. There's zero reason why something meant to add immersion to story should come with anything special. Something like purple drop instead of blue is one thing, exclusive rewards and junk is another thing entirely

    This. This is exactly why veteran overland won't and shouldn't happen.

    The people who want veteran overland are split about fifteen different ways about what they want out of the experience in ways that would be impossible for ZOS to please even a significant amount of them, and pleasing the portion of that player base that is flat-out contemptuous towards players that aren't interested in universally hard content getting any rewards (which is the overwhelming proportion of players of the game) would be particularly financially suicidal for ZOS (and this is really obvious).

    I don't want to "work for it" in overland. That's what trials are for. It's a sometimes activity, if I'm in the mood. If they did that, I'd quit, cancel my ESO+ subscription, and stop spending money on crowns, and from everything ZOS staff have said they're very well aware that it would burn a huge proportion of subscribers to win over people who usually admit on there they don't play (and especially don't pay).

    Same goes for splitting regions into "normal zones" and "veteran zones" by geography in this thread. I can't play half the story, or half the region? I'll be done with this game quick as can be. And again: we are most of the paying userbase of this game, which is currently doing extremely well in that regard.
  • Norgh
    Norgh
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    If someone wants to spend 3 minutes killing a wolf that's fine, but my wife and I prefer as it is.
    Xbox EU-UK Xbox Series X
  • Sylvermynx
    Sylvermynx
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    Just one more thing: if an optional overland is developed, are you asking for a separate instance/shard/server? Because if not, how is the same mob going to work for someone like me in normal mode and someone like you going against a virtual god-mod mob? If it takes me 5 minutes to kill a Harvester in Coldharbour (and sometimes it does), and it's taking you longer than that, I'ma have put the thing down before you get it done on your hard mode, right?

    And if you're asking for your own optional veteran space, well, that does take valuable developer time, you know.

    I don't see how a toggle can work so that the same mobs can be "different" when approached by a "veteran" and a "normal". I can see that it would be fine for story bosses because those are generally instanced anyway, but even in a new chapter zone, how do you envision a veteran overland working with regard to the mobs that both of us will be attacking?
  • CP5
    CP5
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    Sylvermynx wrote: »
    Just one more thing: if an optional overland is developed, are you asking for a separate instance/shard/server? Because if not, how is the same mob going to work for someone like me in normal mode and someone like you going against a virtual god-mod mob? If it takes me 5 minutes to kill a Harvester in Coldharbour (and sometimes it does), and it's taking you longer than that, I'ma have put the thing down before you get it done on your hard mode, right?

    And if you're asking for your own optional veteran space, well, that does take valuable developer time, you know.

    I don't see how a toggle can work so that the same mobs can be "different" when approached by a "veteran" and a "normal". I can see that it would be fine for story bosses because those are generally instanced anyway, but even in a new chapter zone, how do you envision a veteran overland working with regard to the mobs that both of us will be attacking?

    Every zone is instanced, like a bunch of identical rooms but with a finite number of players allowed in each. These rooms can be identical, say, Reapers March, or they can be near identical, like normal and vet Banished Cells. You can take a room (like any dungeon) and apply different rules to it to make each version different, (like vet or normal dungeons, or all the different cyrodiil types). This is how they did the old bronze, silver, and gold zones in the past, the same place but with a different 'rule set' applied depending on which faction you chose. This is how near every piece of content in the game works, and even overland worked this way in the past.
  • Araxyte
    Araxyte
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    Khenarthi wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    [*] Quest reward overhaul: Receive a reward chest at the end of a quest depending on the type of quest you have completed. The reward chest rolls on a drop table for various material, motif, cash, furniture or armour set rewards. Each chest has access to the same drop table with the greater chests having a better chance of better loot.
    [*] An optional challenge mode toggle for overland quests: A list of debuffs are afflicted onto your character depending on the challenge you have selected. A collectible tool can toggle these effects on and off in case you decide it is too difficult, or you need to go do something else entirely. Cancelling the challenge will fail the challenge however. Upon completion of the quest and challenge you receive a better rewards chest which has a slightly increased drop chance of better loot from the same drop table as the other chests, a little something for your efforts.

    See, I do not see why you should have "a little something for your efforts" as you put it for choosing the harder mode. If the point is that overland is too easy and not engaging, then getting better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode should not be necessary. Your reward is doing it on the difficulty you want.

    This to me is a huge point of contention.

    Player 1 who does normal mode gets 1k gold at the end, player 2 who does hard mode gets 1.5k gold at the end. This would cause nuclear fall out and mass quits? Yikes. Zos needs to give this another shot in my opinion. I believe this failed last time because we had lots of different instances. If a player could inflict debuffs on them selves then I think it could work.
    | All classes | PC EU |
  • Blackbird_V
    Blackbird_V
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    [
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Khenarthi wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    [*] Quest reward overhaul: Receive a reward chest at the end of a quest depending on the type of quest you have completed. The reward chest rolls on a drop table for various material, motif, cash, furniture or armour set rewards. Each chest has access to the same drop table with the greater chests having a better chance of better loot.
    [*] An optional challenge mode toggle for overland quests: A list of debuffs are afflicted onto your character depending on the challenge you have selected. A collectible tool can toggle these effects on and off in case you decide it is too difficult, or you need to go do something else entirely. Cancelling the challenge will fail the challenge however. Upon completion of the quest and challenge you receive a better rewards chest which has a slightly increased drop chance of better loot from the same drop table as the other chests, a little something for your efforts.

    See, I do not see why you should have "a little something for your efforts" as you put it for choosing the harder mode. If the point is that overland is too easy and not engaging, then getting better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode should not be necessary. Your reward is doing it on the difficulty you want.

    This to me is a huge point of contention.

    Lets remove perfected trial gear, undaunted plunder, golden jewellery, skins titles and achievements from them! Because ya know, not necessary having better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode.

    That content is meant for experienced players. Story mode is meant for everyone. If new and casual players have nothing where the rewards are tailored towards them, there is zero reason whatsoever for them to play.

    Ok lets do veteran overland mode where it's meant for experienced players, oh and lets cater some rewards for us since we're experienced! Seems like a good idea to me. They want to quest for fun, quest points and to be casual, then good for them. They should be rewarded for their time, sure. People who wanna do and complete harder content should be catered differently. If they want better rewards, then work for it.

    Story mode can only be done once per character.

    So, your statement amounts to "Veteran players should be the only ones that should have a rewarding experience where they can complete content meant for them." And if you don't see how taking literally everything for only one group of players and causing everyone else to quit is a problem, idk what to tell ya. Enjoy your shinies on a quickly dead game, I suppose.

    New and casual players must have something rewarding all to themselves. You don't need extra cookies for everything. There's zero reason why something meant to add immersion to story should come with anything special. Something like purple drop instead of blue is one thing, exclusive rewards and junk is another thing entirely

    How on Earth will people quit over a veteran overland, that can only be completed once? [snip]

    New and casual players get skill points, some gold and experience. That should be rewarding to them. If they want better rewards then they should work for it. If not, then that's on them. If they get frustrated and quit over that then that's just petty imo. We can literally compare this to vet content we have now: they work for it, learn to get better....... or get carried.

    Oh I'd quit in a hot second. I want to relax NOT have to spend 5 minutes killing a skeever. [snip] Many of us play a game to relax according to this thread and dying every fight is not gonna make us get gud, but it will make us start playing something else.

    [edited for baiting & to remove quote]

    O P T I O N A L

    C O N T E N T



    You are not forced. 5 minutes killing a skeever.... [Snip]. They'd probably have 30k HP for a small mob like that. [Snip].

    [Edited for minor bait]
    Edited by ZOS_Volpe on November 2, 2021 5:41PM
    Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.
  • Araxyte
    Araxyte
    ✭✭✭✭
    [
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Khenarthi wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    [*] Quest reward overhaul: Receive a reward chest at the end of a quest depending on the type of quest you have completed. The reward chest rolls on a drop table for various material, motif, cash, furniture or armour set rewards. Each chest has access to the same drop table with the greater chests having a better chance of better loot.
    [*] An optional challenge mode toggle for overland quests: A list of debuffs are afflicted onto your character depending on the challenge you have selected. A collectible tool can toggle these effects on and off in case you decide it is too difficult, or you need to go do something else entirely. Cancelling the challenge will fail the challenge however. Upon completion of the quest and challenge you receive a better rewards chest which has a slightly increased drop chance of better loot from the same drop table as the other chests, a little something for your efforts.

    See, I do not see why you should have "a little something for your efforts" as you put it for choosing the harder mode. If the point is that overland is too easy and not engaging, then getting better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode should not be necessary. Your reward is doing it on the difficulty you want.

    This to me is a huge point of contention.

    Lets remove perfected trial gear, undaunted plunder, golden jewellery, skins titles and achievements from them! Because ya know, not necessary having better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode.

    That content is meant for experienced players. Story mode is meant for everyone. If new and casual players have nothing where the rewards are tailored towards them, there is zero reason whatsoever for them to play.

    Ok lets do veteran overland mode where it's meant for experienced players, oh and lets cater some rewards for us since we're experienced! Seems like a good idea to me. They want to quest for fun, quest points and to be casual, then good for them. They should be rewarded for their time, sure. People who wanna do and complete harder content should be catered differently. If they want better rewards, then work for it.

    Story mode can only be done once per character.

    So, your statement amounts to "Veteran players should be the only ones that should have a rewarding experience where they can complete content meant for them." And if you don't see how taking literally everything for only one group of players and causing everyone else to quit is a problem, idk what to tell ya. Enjoy your shinies on a quickly dead game, I suppose.

    New and casual players must have something rewarding all to themselves. You don't need extra cookies for everything. There's zero reason why something meant to add immersion to story should come with anything special. Something like purple drop instead of blue is one thing, exclusive rewards and junk is another thing entirely

    How on Earth will people quit over a veteran overland, that can only be completed once? [snip]

    New and casual players get skill points, some gold and experience. That should be rewarding to them. If they want better rewards then they should work for it. If not, then that's on them. If they get frustrated and quit over that then that's just petty imo. We can literally compare this to vet content we have now: they work for it, learn to get better....... or get carried.

    Oh I'd quit in a hot second. I want to relax NOT have to spend 5 minutes killing a skeever. [snip] Many of us play a game to relax according to this thread and dying every fight is not gonna make us get gud, but it will make us start playing something else.

    [edited for baiting & to remove quote]

    We're not asking for 5 minute skeever fights, we're asking that it doesn't die in 1 shot to a light attack and it would be optional.
    | All classes | PC EU |
  • Toxic_Hemlock
    Toxic_Hemlock
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    [Removed Quote]

    But here is the rub. It is far easier to just up the entire difficulty over the entire overland than to make it an optional switch. Making two or more different experiences for different playstyles may sound good to some, but the work required may just lead to them increasing it entirely to reduce the dev time.

    I, and I am sure many others, are not choosing to ignore the "optional" here, but the path of least resistance leads to just increasing it for everyone, and that is not what I want AT ALL.
    Edited by ZOS_Volpe on November 2, 2021 5:45PM
  • CP5
    CP5
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    [Removed Quote]

    But here is the rub. It is far easier to just up the entire difficulty over the entire overland than to make it an optional switch. Making two or more different experiences for different playstyles may sound good to some, but the work required may just lead to them increasing it entirely to reduce the dev time.

    I, and I am sure many others, are not choosing to ignore the "optional" here, but the path of least resistance leads to just increasing it for everyone, and that is not what I want AT ALL.

    They literally use this tech everywhere. They can make different instances of maps, they do, and there are everywhere, except overland. They won't change the base overland else upset a massive portion of the player base, but ignoring other players when they have the tools to provide to both, probably not in their best interest.
    Edited by ZOS_Volpe on November 2, 2021 5:46PM
  • Araxyte
    Araxyte
    ✭✭✭✭
    [Removed Quote]

    But here is the rub. It is far easier to just up the entire difficulty over the entire overland than to make it an optional switch. Making two or more different experiences for different playstyles may sound good to some, but the work required may just lead to them increasing it entirely to reduce the dev time.

    I, and I am sure many others, are not choosing to ignore the "optional" here, but the path of least resistance leads to just increasing it for everyone, and that is not what I want AT ALL.

    That's why using current mechanics would be a good idea - inflict major vulnerability on the player which wants hard mode for example.
    Edited by ZOS_Volpe on November 2, 2021 5:46PM
    | All classes | PC EU |
  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Khenarthi wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    [*] Quest reward overhaul: Receive a reward chest at the end of a quest depending on the type of quest you have completed. The reward chest rolls on a drop table for various material, motif, cash, furniture or armour set rewards. Each chest has access to the same drop table with the greater chests having a better chance of better loot.
    [*] An optional challenge mode toggle for overland quests: A list of debuffs are afflicted onto your character depending on the challenge you have selected. A collectible tool can toggle these effects on and off in case you decide it is too difficult, or you need to go do something else entirely. Cancelling the challenge will fail the challenge however. Upon completion of the quest and challenge you receive a better rewards chest which has a slightly increased drop chance of better loot from the same drop table as the other chests, a little something for your efforts.

    See, I do not see why you should have "a little something for your efforts" as you put it for choosing the harder mode. If the point is that overland is too easy and not engaging, then getting better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode should not be necessary. Your reward is doing it on the difficulty you want.

    This to me is a huge point of contention.

    Lets remove perfected trial gear, undaunted plunder, golden jewellery, skins titles and achievements from them! Because ya know, not necessary having better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode.

    That content is meant for experienced players. Story mode is meant for everyone. If new and casual players have nothing where the rewards are tailored towards them, there is zero reason whatsoever for them to play.

    Ok lets do veteran overland mode where it's meant for experienced players, oh and lets cater some rewards for us since we're experienced! Seems like a good idea to me. They want to quest for fun, quest points and to be casual, then good for them. They should be rewarded for their time, sure. People who wanna do and complete harder content should be catered differently. If they want better rewards, then work for it.

    Story mode can only be done once per character.

    So, your statement amounts to "Veteran players should be the only ones that should have a rewarding experience where they can complete content meant for them." And if you don't see how taking literally everything for only one group of players and causing everyone else to quit is a problem, idk what to tell ya. Enjoy your shinies on a quickly dead game, I suppose.

    New and casual players must have something rewarding all to themselves. You don't need extra cookies for everything. There's zero reason why something meant to add immersion to story should come with anything special. Something like purple drop instead of blue is one thing, exclusive rewards and junk is another thing entirely

    How on Earth will people quit over a veteran overland, that can only be completed once? [snip]

    New and casual players get skill points, some gold and experience. That should be rewarding to them. If they want better rewards then they should work for it. If not, then that's on them. If they get frustrated and quit over that then that's just petty imo. We can literally compare this to vet content we have now: they work for it, learn to get better....... or get carried.

    [edited for baiting]

    Nobody new or casual wants to play just for some coin while all the great players get literally all the nicest things. Some of them will look at the massive amount of work it takes to go from a brand new player or casual player to someone able to do the hardest stuff and get good. And the rest will just quit.

    There has to be fun and rewarding things for all levels of play, that's just very basic. It's the reason we get quest rewards and achievements in the first place. There are nice rewards exclusive to the primary target audience for all the types of content. That should not change. The target audience for overland is everyone (but especially casuals) so that is where the big overland rewards should come from. Nobody wants to know they missed out on like a mount and will have to roll an alt out and gear out to vet specs because they beat Rada Al'Saran at level 20.

    Something like blue gear instead of purple gear is fine. But hard no to anything fancy like dyes cosmetics, special weapons, etc. That stuff is better suited to things like arenas.

    Easiest way to lose casual players. And this game doesn't run without them. They are the majority.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on November 2, 2021 2:36PM
  • Sylvermynx
    Sylvermynx
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Araxyte wrote: »
    [Removed Quote]

    But here is the rub. It is far easier to just up the entire difficulty over the entire overland than to make it an optional switch. Making two or more different experiences for different playstyles may sound good to some, but the work required may just lead to them increasing it entirely to reduce the dev time.

    I, and I am sure many others, are not choosing to ignore the "optional" here, but the path of least resistance leads to just increasing it for everyone, and that is not what I want AT ALL.

    That's why using current mechanics would be a good idea - inflict major vulnerability on the player which wants hard mode for example.

    That would be one option that makes sense to me, though I think I remember from other threads that there are those who don't like that for some reason.

    And why not something like the reverse of Battle Spirit for those who want it more difficult?
    Edited by ZOS_Volpe on November 2, 2021 5:47PM
  • Araxyte
    Araxyte
    ✭✭✭✭
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Khenarthi wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    [*] Quest reward overhaul: Receive a reward chest at the end of a quest depending on the type of quest you have completed. The reward chest rolls on a drop table for various material, motif, cash, furniture or armour set rewards. Each chest has access to the same drop table with the greater chests having a better chance of better loot.
    [*] An optional challenge mode toggle for overland quests: A list of debuffs are afflicted onto your character depending on the challenge you have selected. A collectible tool can toggle these effects on and off in case you decide it is too difficult, or you need to go do something else entirely. Cancelling the challenge will fail the challenge however. Upon completion of the quest and challenge you receive a better rewards chest which has a slightly increased drop chance of better loot from the same drop table as the other chests, a little something for your efforts.

    See, I do not see why you should have "a little something for your efforts" as you put it for choosing the harder mode. If the point is that overland is too easy and not engaging, then getting better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode should not be necessary. Your reward is doing it on the difficulty you want.

    This to me is a huge point of contention.

    Lets remove perfected trial gear, undaunted plunder, golden jewellery, skins titles and achievements from them! Because ya know, not necessary having better rewards than the plebs doing it on normal mode.

    That content is meant for experienced players. Story mode is meant for everyone. If new and casual players have nothing where the rewards are tailored towards them, there is zero reason whatsoever for them to play.

    Ok lets do veteran overland mode where it's meant for experienced players, oh and lets cater some rewards for us since we're experienced! Seems like a good idea to me. They want to quest for fun, quest points and to be casual, then good for them. They should be rewarded for their time, sure. People who wanna do and complete harder content should be catered differently. If they want better rewards, then work for it.

    Story mode can only be done once per character.

    So, your statement amounts to "Veteran players should be the only ones that should have a rewarding experience where they can complete content meant for them." And if you don't see how taking literally everything for only one group of players and causing everyone else to quit is a problem, idk what to tell ya. Enjoy your shinies on a quickly dead game, I suppose.

    New and casual players must have something rewarding all to themselves. You don't need extra cookies for everything. There's zero reason why something meant to add immersion to story should come with anything special. Something like purple drop instead of blue is one thing, exclusive rewards and junk is another thing entirely

    How on Earth will people quit over a veteran overland, that can only be completed once? [snip]

    New and casual players get skill points, some gold and experience. That should be rewarding to them. If they want better rewards then they should work for it. If not, then that's on them. If they get frustrated and quit over that then that's just petty imo. We can literally compare this to vet content we have now: they work for it, learn to get better....... or get carried.

    [edited for baiting]

    Nobody wants to play just for some coin while everyone else gets nice stuff. Some of them will look at the massive amount of work it takes to go from a brand new player or casual player to someone able to do the hardest stuff and get good. And the rest will just quit.

    There has to be fun and rewarding things for all levels of play, that's just very basic. It's the reason we get quest rewards and achievements in the first place.

    Something like blue gear instead of purple gear is fine. But hard no to anything fancy like cosmetics, special weapons, etc. That stuff is better suited to things like arenas.

    We're just speculating the idea, not the finer details of rewards. Normal mode player 1 gets 1k coins, hard mode player 2 gets 1.1k coins if needed... just add something for the players that want the challenge
    | All classes | PC EU |
  • Araxyte
    Araxyte
    ✭✭✭✭
    Sylvermynx wrote: »
    Araxyte wrote: »
    [Removed Quote]

    But here is the rub. It is far easier to just up the entire difficulty over the entire overland than to make it an optional switch. Making two or more different experiences for different playstyles may sound good to some, but the work required may just lead to them increasing it entirely to reduce the dev time.

    I, and I am sure many others, are not choosing to ignore the "optional" here, but the path of least resistance leads to just increasing it for everyone, and that is not what I want AT ALL.

    That's why using current mechanics would be a good idea - inflict major vulnerability on the player which wants hard mode for example.

    That would be one option that makes sense to me, though I think I remember from other threads that there are those who don't like that for some reason.

    And why not something like the reverse of Battle Spirit for those who want it more difficult?

    The reverse of battle spirit could also work :)
    Edited by ZOS_Volpe on November 2, 2021 5:48PM
    | All classes | PC EU |
  • Sylvermynx
    Sylvermynx
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    Nobody new or casual wants to play just for some coin while all the great players get literally all the nicest things. Some of them will look at the massive amount of work it takes to go from a brand new player or casual player to someone able to do the hardest stuff and get good. And the rest will just quit.

    There has to be fun and rewarding things for all levels of play, that's just very basic. It's the reason we get quest rewards and achievements in the first place. There are nice rewards exclusive to the primary target audience for all the types of content. That should not change. The target audience for overland is everyone (but especially casuals) so that is where the big overland rewards should come from. Nobody wants to know they missed out on like a mount and will have to roll an alt out and gear out to vet specs because they beat Rada Al'Saran at level 20.

    Something like blue gear instead of purple gear is fine. But hard no to anything fancy like dyes cosmetics, special weapons, etc. That stuff is better suited to things like arenas.

    Easiest way to lose casual players. And this game doesn't run without them. They are the majority.

    Now that's absolutely not true for me. I don't really care if others get different shinies from the ones I get, because I'm already not getting shinies from content I can't do or don't want to do.

    Only reason I'd quit playing this game would be if the more difficult overland turned out not to be optional....

  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Araxyte wrote: »
    We're just speculating the idea, not the finer details of rewards. Normal mode player 1 gets 1k coins, hard mode player 2 gets 1.1k coins if needed... just add something for the players that want the challenge

    Something like a bit more coin and exp wouldn't be objectionable to me. Or even something like the same gear drops for both, but one is blue and one is green quality. That sort of small thing.

    But I really do have to state I am totally opposed to something like motifs, dyes, achievements, etc. Because Overland content is one and done content, and is supposed to be unifying. I can personally do vet content no problem, but I know people who cannot. One of the people I play with in this game I know irl and he is 100% disabled. That there is content both get the same rewards is meaningful to me. I know for a fact he'd quit, for one. But also I like the spirit of it. That there is content in this game we can all do, and then content for people who want a bit of an extra challenge.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on November 2, 2021 2:45PM
  • Toxic_Hemlock
    Toxic_Hemlock
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    CP5 wrote: »
    [Removed Quote]

    But here is the rub. It is far easier to just up the entire difficulty over the entire overland than to make it an optional switch. Making two or more different experiences for different playstyles may sound good to some, but the work required may just lead to them increasing it entirely to reduce the dev time.

    I, and I am sure many others, are not choosing to ignore the "optional" here, but the path of least resistance leads to just increasing it for everyone, and that is not what I want AT ALL.

    They literally use this tech everywhere. They can make different instances of maps, they do, and there are everywhere, except overland. They won't change the base overland else upset a massive portion of the player base, but ignoring other players when they have the tools to provide to both, probably not in their best interest.

    Honestly at this point I could care less about having an option to increase the difficulty for those that want it, just leave my casual experience alone. So long as it doesn't create so much extra work for the devs that it pushes back any new content for a year or more it is fine with me.
    Edited by ZOS_Volpe on November 2, 2021 5:48PM
  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    So long as it doesn't create so much extra work for the devs that it pushes back any new content for a year or more it is fine with me.

    That's what a vet overland with new mechanics would do, as it would require a total overhaul of the game.

    Something that just debuffs you wouldn't though
    Edited by spartaxoxo on November 2, 2021 2:50PM
  • Khenarthi
    Khenarthi
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Araxyte wrote: »

    We're just speculating the idea, not the finer details of rewards. Normal mode player 1 gets 1k coins, hard mode player 2 gets 1.1k coins if needed... just add something for the players that want the challenge

    Add the challenge, by all means, if ZOS finds it possible. But I still do not see why there is the need of extra coin (or any extra reward).

    These threads tend to start as "some of us want more of a challenge" and turn to "more rewards please, of course". There are already lots of rewards locked behind hard content that most of the casual players won't even dream of getting.

    edit: ok, a small percentage of extra gold to offset the extra time spent on each mob would be fair. Just to make sure the average gold-per-time-spent-questing is balanced for all. But extra tempers, treasures, gear etc is too much.
    Edited by Khenarthi on November 2, 2021 3:27PM
    PC-EU
  • vingarmo
    vingarmo
    ✭✭✭
    Honestly, I never understood why some players so against increased rewards. As of now questing, provide close to nothing to both experienced and new players: lowest gold per hour ratio, slow gain of skill points compare to dungeons and delves, one of the slowest ways of leveling new character. Unless you are achievements chaser you already doing it purely for enjoyment not for rewards.
    In addition, it is hard to ignore that activity, which provide the best possible rewards (even in comparison to hardest content available), is already available to every player: crafting writs. So if difficulty isn’t your thing but rewards are you probably looking in wrong direction. None of the suggestions I read was even close to it.
    Improving reward structure for both veteran and normal to a point where it’s at least somewhat worth doing would attract players who previously had little interest in the content or only did it once. Increased rewards for completing veteran vs normal are only fair because you already spending more time and effort doing it. Never mind that developers themselves stated that one of the main reasons they hesitant on doing this experiment, because they are not sure how to incentivize it. Increasing replay-ability thus prolonging time spent in game is one of the long-term goals for most MMOs and providing motivations for completing major DLC releases more than once would be a big improvement in that regard.
  • Iron_Warrior
    Iron_Warrior
    ✭✭✭✭✭

    But here is the rub. It is far easier to just up the entire difficulty over the entire overland than to make it an optional switch. Making two or more different experiences for different playstyles may sound good to some, but the work required may just lead to them increasing it entirely to reduce the dev time.

    I, and I am sure many others, are not choosing to ignore the "optional" here, but the path of least resistance leads to just increasing it for everyone, and that is not what I want AT ALL.
    Now that's a lot better because now we are honest and can understand eachother. I want optional harder overland and you fear that the devs will become lazy and force it on everyone. We are on the same page on something, neither of us wants the game to become harder overall instead of an optional thing. I'm sure even the vet players sometimes want to just do the dailies, pick materials and go from point A to point B ASAP, so that's the biggest mistake they can make and i'm sure they are smart enough to understand that. If they ever decide to make overland challenging it's either needs to be optional or don't happen at all
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