Overland Content Feedback Thread

spartaxoxo

colossalvoids wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

I hope you can see the difference between a solo game debuffs, universal debuffs like bs and a debuff working just for you alone and not affecting anyone around.

They have similarities and differences, nevertheless it's untrue that nobody likes them even in this thread. One of the earliest responses in this thread before it became a 40 page monstrosity dominated by the same like what 10 people, is people asking for debuffs so they can use them and still play with their friends and group mates who aren't using them.

I'll start small and just ask if you're the one advocating for it how would it solve your issues (if you had any?) and what are those issues for you, just as example? Not trying to bait or something, I'm seriously don't see any value in it for myself so what would be the benefit for at least some people, there should be any to begin with.

To me personally...

Benefits are

*I can still wear my gear and cp
*I can group with anyone and still enjoy not two shotting everything without standing still or just light attacking (that's actually the most important one for me)
*New people will see me and others running around and won't think the game is dead
*I can customize my difficulty if there's enough options. I might use a stronger debuff for Veya than Rada Al Saran, for example.
*It will instantly refresh every old fight and make some of the older mechs feel new again as they'll actually be a threat. Like I recently fought Zumong Phoom again and he had this bone dragon who's aoe I absolutely did not avoid and he bombarded me with skeletons. I purposefully let them hit me and it was still a dull fight. But it did make it more interesting than playing it properly. If those same attacks would've killed me it would have instantly been more interesting.
*Playing at a lower difficultly setting will not screw up my achievement score or make me miss out on anything (also very important to me)
*if they also add challenge banners, which I'd also like, then having them avaialble would let me increase the difficulty even further.

My issues with the current overland is sometimes I want a challenge but don't want to group, and don't want to do vma or vvh again. But I have to do them anyway or solo a dungeon.And story bosses feel anti-climatic.

Drawbacks are
*They wouldn't add any new mechs
* I'd probably have to micromanage them in some way and that might get annoying
* I'd probably have to wait a couple weeks after a new zone drops to be able to use them properly and they also wouldn't be great for event quests. I wouldn't care if occasionally someone comes along and dusts stuff because they are debuffed and I am not, but it would get annoying if it was constant because the zone is densely populated.

SilverBride

The value I see in a debuff is it solves what many have stated that their issue is... that mobs die too fast, which they find boring and immersion breaking. What difference does it make why the mobs no longer die fast as long as the stated issue is resolved?

The only difference between the difficulty with a debuff and separate veteran overland zones is that there is no possibility of better rewards with a debuff. The difficulty would be the same with both, but a debuff would eliminate the negative problems that come with a separate zone, i.e. splitting the playerbase, less powerful players unable to get the better rewards, the time and manpower to create veteran zones, etc..

Edit: And everything that @spartaxoxo just said.

Chilly-McFreeze

colossalvoids wrote: »

Would be a different song if properly tuned "pve battlespirit" was an instance-wide thing accordingly to your dungeon mode setting being veteran upon zoning.

What's the difference between an instance-wide debuff and a veteran instance? The effort of implementation or am I missing something here?

Like you said, from a psychological standpoint it would be more charming to buff up opponents than to kill your own progression.

colossalvoids

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Would be a different song if properly tuned "pve battlespirit" was an instance-wide thing accordingly to your dungeon mode setting being veteran upon zoning.

What's the difference between an instance-wide debuff and a veteran instance? The effort of implementation or am I missing something here?

Like you said, from a psychological standpoint it would be more charming to buff up opponents than to kill your own progression.

No difference here, basically no cp pve or one with special traits similarly to battle spirit would be virtually "vet" by zos rulesets. That's probably easiest one outside of debuff foods that would be the ultimate easiest solution, if we can call it a solution cause people who are not interested in it idk.

Harvokaan

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Benefits are
*New people will see me and others running around and won't think the game is dead

Drawbacks are
* I'd probably have to wait a couple weeks after a new zone drops to be able to use them properly and they also wouldn't be great for event quests. I wouldn't care if occasionally someone comes along and dusts stuff because they are debuffed and I am not, but it would get annoying if it was constant because the zone is densely populated.

Am I the only one who see a contradiction here?
I don't like the debuff idea unless it is applied to everyone in the zone as it would be just anticlimatic to see undebuffed ppl fighting with enemies while i struggle with max debuff on me. I'm just a type who wants to play with others in same sandpit with same rules applied to everyone.
Also micromanaging part sounds awful, i just prefer to set one toggle to vet and just be done with it.
I think the whole debuff system would take more time to create then new zone instance with enemies without new mechanics but with increased hp, damage, cast speed and reduced abilities cooldowns. As the devs already have tech for creating new instances, creating normal/vet version of same locations, etc.
They could start with just vet delve/public dungeons + banners on quest bosses, that would solve a lot of overland questing issues

spartaxoxo

Harvokaan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Benefits are
*New people will see me and others running around and won't think the game is dead

Drawbacks are
* I'd probably have to wait a couple weeks after a new zone drops to be able to use them properly and they also wouldn't be great for event quests. I wouldn't care if occasionally someone comes along and dusts stuff because they are debuffed and I am not, but it would get annoying if it was constant because the zone is densely populated.

Am I the only one who see a contradiction here?

Whenever a new zone drops it's flooded with casual players some of who proceed to quit as soon as they finish it until the next content drop. Like there's a big influx if players that just plays expansions. So there is no contradiction.

Debuffs are definitely a matter of taste. I won't care what others are doing because seeing people hitting harder than me is a normal part of multiplayer gaming. I just don't want to fight off the bigger crowds that come with every new content launch.

So those people coming in almost certainly make up for anyone that would wait a bit to play.

Debuffs are way less work. You only apply it to one thing, not go in and create new difficulty settings and change all of the mob types.

Arthtur

Well i really like Craglorn. I did all of the group locations few times already just for fun. I still like to do some Celestial Rifts when i see them. The thing is its only 1 zone. How many times i should do it? To the point i will hate it? Also its Group Zone and rewards for playing solo - picking up flowers. There are mines full of nirncrux that dont give nirncrux as a reward. There are group locations with mountains of nirncrux and doing it doesnt give you nirncrux either. Picking up random flower next to the city? Yeah u get nirncrux... So even if i do it for fun it doesnt feel nice when i dont even get a reward for it... Yeah sure 1 piece of equipment and some gold wont give me even potions for harder stuff. Also whats the point of the gold when i can just do daily writs... feels even less rewarding.

So yeah. Group Zone that doesnt reward you for doing group content. Also it looks empty most of the time because its a trial city. Everyone sits in city and is looking for trial. Because there is a lot of ppl doing this there is few instances of Craglorn at the same time which splits the players doing content even more. U can test it simply by tp to a diffrent ppl from guild. There is high chance that every person is in diffrent Craglorn.

So u can love Craglorn and hate it at the same time...


About Debuff Food. I dont like it too. Its like not eating anything for 2 days because u want a challenge in next football match... I can see it only as a extra challenge.

SilverBride

Harvokaan wrote: »

Am I the only one who see a contradiction here?
I don't like the debuff idea unless it is applied to everyone in the zone as it would be just anticlimatic to see undebuffed ppl fighting with enemies while i struggle with max debuff on me. I'm just a type who wants to play with others in same sandpit with same rules applied to everyone.

This already happens all the time. New players often struggle with fights that more powerful players are taking out easily. And this would happen in a veteran overland too, when less powerful players are having a harder time with the mobs while the more powerful players are not.

There is never going to be a situation where all players have the same level of skills, experience and gear, except in custom made groups in instanced content, such as veteran dungeon, trial and arena groups. The only way to assure everyone is on the same level playing field in overland is to turn all the overland zones into instanced content.

Chilly-McFreeze

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Debuffs are definitely a matter of taste. I won't care what others are doing because seeing people hitting harder than me is a normal part of multiplayer gaming. I just don't want to fight off the bigger crowds that come with every new content launch.

I for one wouldn't find it too amusing. Going some extra steps to debuff myself just to have someone casually 2 hitting the quest boss I try to squeeze a fight out of isn't exactly what people are asking for. And with a look at the "vet players are ruining my casual dungeon experience" threads, this isn't an uncommon issue. And no, someone building to hit harder with the same premises as me isn't the same.

TBF the instance-wide debuff thing would probably be the easy way out, the lazy but somewhat working compromise.

But on the other hand. ZOS is working so hard to put out year long quest content for us to pay for and yet can't be bothered to create an option to fit all of the player base. Feels wasted to me.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

Am I the only one who see a contradiction here?
I don't like the debuff idea unless it is applied to everyone in the zone as it would be just anticlimatic to see undebuffed ppl fighting with enemies while i struggle with max debuff on me. I'm just a type who wants to play with others in same sandpit with same rules applied to everyone.

This already happens all the time. New players often struggle with fights that more powerful players are taking out easily. And this would happen in a veteran overland too, when less powerful players are having a harder time with the mobs while the more powerful players are not.

There is never going to be a situation where all players have the same level of skills, experience and gear, except in custom made groups in instanced content, such as veteran dungeon, trial and arena groups. The only way to assure everyone is on the same level playing field in overland is to turn all the overland zones into instanced content.

Yup. The reason it's an issue right when content drops is the same reason a lot of casuals let stuff die down a bit too, floods of people makes it harder to just do your own thing for everyone.

Dragons are trivial during dragon slaying events for example.

Or I remember someone made a thread on here that was a low dps player complaining that high level players were griefing by camping the new world bosses in Fargrave. I even saw one person say that we should get banned for griefing because a higher dps player gets drops each time while some get nothing. That's because of the 20 person limit on drops, a total nonissue when that 30 people become 7 as the influx dies down.

spartaxoxo

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Debuffs are definitely a matter of taste. I won't care what others are doing because seeing people hitting harder than me is a normal part of multiplayer gaming. I just don't want to fight off the bigger crowds that come with every new content launch.

I for one wouldn't find it too amusing. Going some extra steps to debuff myself just to have someone casually 2 hitting the quest boss I try to squeeze a fight out of isn't exactly what people are asking for. And with a look at the "vet players are ruining my casual dungeon experience" threads, this isn't an uncommon issue. And no, someone building to hit harder with the same premises as me isn't the same.

TBF the instance-wide debuff thing would probably be the easy way out, the lazy but somewhat working compromise.

But on the other hand. ZOS is working so hard to put out year long quest content for us to pay for and yet can't be bothered to create an option to fit all of the player base. Feels wasted to me.

The big quest bosses are instanced anyway so it would most effect trash mobs and mini bosses.

Someone building to hit harder than me gameplay wise it is the same and actually potentially worse for the player building to have more power than you.

Like my solo play Templar is hitting like 50k dps. If my dps was cut in half by debuffs it would be 25k dps. Which is already better than most casuals. But let's say a midtier player at dlc vet dungeon mid of 35k comes in. That's a much smaller difference in power than the people much better than me who are hitting double.

It feels weird but from a purely mechanical perspective it's not at all different. It really depends on the strength of the debuff and the difference between the two players.

But there's a lot less gap between a typical casual player (5-10k dps) and mid-tier, and mid-tier and high dps.

SilverBride

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I for one wouldn't find it too amusing. Going some extra steps to debuff myself just to have someone casually 2 hitting the quest boss I try to squeeze a fight out of isn't exactly what people are asking for. And with a look at the "vet players are ruining my casual dungeon experience" threads, this isn't an uncommon issue. And no, someone building to hit harder with the same premises as me isn't the same.

TBF the instance-wide debuff thing would probably be the easy way out, the lazy but somewhat working compromise.

But on the other hand. ZOS is working so hard to put out year long quest content for us to pay for and yet can't be bothered to create an option to fit all of the player base. Feels wasted to me.

As I said there are always going to be new players and experienced players of all types in all the zones. The only way to avoid that is to make overland instanced, which it may as well be a single player game in that case. Or to start all players at max level so they are all the same power, which would completely ruin the fun of leveling. Neither of those are good options.

Harvokaan

SilverBride wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I for one wouldn't find it too amusing. Going some extra steps to debuff myself just to have someone casually 2 hitting the quest boss I try to squeeze a fight out of isn't exactly what people are asking for. And with a look at the "vet players are ruining my casual dungeon experience" threads, this isn't an uncommon issue. And no, someone building to hit harder with the same premises as me isn't the same.

TBF the instance-wide debuff thing would probably be the easy way out, the lazy but somewhat working compromise.

But on the other hand. ZOS is working so hard to put out year long quest content for us to pay for and yet can't be bothered to create an option to fit all of the player base. Feels wasted to me.

As I said there are always going to be new players and experienced players of all types in all the zones. The only way to avoid that is to make overland instanced, which it may as well be a single player game in that case. Or to start all players at max level so they are all the same power, which would completely ruin the fun of leveling. Neither of those are good options.

As fair as putting debuffed and not debuffed players in the same instance. If you want fairness then different instances for normal and vet would be a way to go as giving ppl options is what usually works the best

spartaxoxo

Harvokaan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I for one wouldn't find it too amusing. Going some extra steps to debuff myself just to have someone casually 2 hitting the quest boss I try to squeeze a fight out of isn't exactly what people are asking for. And with a look at the "vet players are ruining my casual dungeon experience" threads, this isn't an uncommon issue. And no, someone building to hit harder with the same premises as me isn't the same.

TBF the instance-wide debuff thing would probably be the easy way out, the lazy but somewhat working compromise.

But on the other hand. ZOS is working so hard to put out year long quest content for us to pay for and yet can't be bothered to create an option to fit all of the player base. Feels wasted to me.

As I said there are always going to be new players and experienced players of all types in all the zones. The only way to avoid that is to make overland instanced, which it may as well be a single player game in that case. Or to start all players at max level so they are all the same power, which would completely ruin the fun of leveling. Neither of those are good options.

As fair as putting debuffed and not debuffed players in the same instance. If you want fairness then different instances for normal and vet would be a way to go as giving ppl options is what usually works the best

An option doesn't necessarily mean a particular option. Debuff or not is already an option, one of many suggested.

Franchise408

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Debuffs are definitely a matter of taste. I won't care what others are doing because seeing people hitting harder than me is a normal part of multiplayer gaming. I just don't want to fight off the bigger crowds that come with every new content launch.

I for one wouldn't find it too amusing. Going some extra steps to debuff myself just to have someone casually 2 hitting the quest boss I try to squeeze a fight out of isn't exactly what people are asking for. And with a look at the "vet players are ruining my casual dungeon experience" threads, this isn't an uncommon issue. And no, someone building to hit harder with the same premises as me isn't the same.

TBF the instance-wide debuff thing would probably be the easy way out, the lazy but somewhat working compromise.

But on the other hand. ZOS is working so hard to put out year long quest content for us to pay for and yet can't be bothered to create an option to fit all of the player base. Feels wasted to me.

Well for me, I just know that chapter content is no longer worth my purchase. It's clear that players like me are not welcome in this game, so I don't have to continue supporting a product that no longer wants me.

Harvokaan

Franchise408 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Debuffs are definitely a matter of taste. I won't care what others are doing because seeing people hitting harder than me is a normal part of multiplayer gaming. I just don't want to fight off the bigger crowds that come with every new content launch.

I for one wouldn't find it too amusing. Going some extra steps to debuff myself just to have someone casually 2 hitting the quest boss I try to squeeze a fight out of isn't exactly what people are asking for. And with a look at the "vet players are ruining my casual dungeon experience" threads, this isn't an uncommon issue. And no, someone building to hit harder with the same premises as me isn't the same.

TBF the instance-wide debuff thing would probably be the easy way out, the lazy but somewhat working compromise.

But on the other hand. ZOS is working so hard to put out year long quest content for us to pay for and yet can't be bothered to create an option to fit all of the player base. Feels wasted to me.

Well for me, I just know that chapter content is no longer worth my purchase. It's clear that players like me are not welcome in this game, so I don't have to continue supporting a product that no longer wants me.

I bought last chapter mostly for trial as companions are useless addition to the game for me and i don't enjoy questing anymore. If new chapter wouldn't provide something extraordinary then i will probably skip it too. Not a lot of content for ppl like me

Franchise408

Harvokaan wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Debuffs are definitely a matter of taste. I won't care what others are doing because seeing people hitting harder than me is a normal part of multiplayer gaming. I just don't want to fight off the bigger crowds that come with every new content launch.

I for one wouldn't find it too amusing. Going some extra steps to debuff myself just to have someone casually 2 hitting the quest boss I try to squeeze a fight out of isn't exactly what people are asking for. And with a look at the "vet players are ruining my casual dungeon experience" threads, this isn't an uncommon issue. And no, someone building to hit harder with the same premises as me isn't the same.

TBF the instance-wide debuff thing would probably be the easy way out, the lazy but somewhat working compromise.

But on the other hand. ZOS is working so hard to put out year long quest content for us to pay for and yet can't be bothered to create an option to fit all of the player base. Feels wasted to me.

Well for me, I just know that chapter content is no longer worth my purchase. It's clear that players like me are not welcome in this game, so I don't have to continue supporting a product that no longer wants me.

I bought last chapter mostly for trial as companions are useless addition to the game for me and i don't enjoy questing anymore. If new chapter wouldn't provide something extraordinary then i will probably skip it too. Not a lot of content for ppl like me

This is the only MMO I have ever played that didn't make new content specifically for higher level players. Once you've reached a certain level, there's no reason to keep going anymore.

Knowing that the devs don't think I'm important, and the community only sees me as someone who needs to be forced into their lower level instances so they can ask me for help when they face any semblance of challenge, is a continuous reminder that this game has no place for me.

colossalvoids

Franchise408 wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

Franchise408 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Debuffs are definitely a matter of taste. I won't care what others are doing because seeing people hitting harder than me is a normal part of multiplayer gaming. I just don't want to fight off the bigger crowds that come with every new content launch.

I for one wouldn't find it too amusing. Going some extra steps to debuff myself just to have someone casually 2 hitting the quest boss I try to squeeze a fight out of isn't exactly what people are asking for. And with a look at the "vet players are ruining my casual dungeon experience" threads, this isn't an uncommon issue. And no, someone building to hit harder with the same premises as me isn't the same.

TBF the instance-wide debuff thing would probably be the easy way out, the lazy but somewhat working compromise.

But on the other hand. ZOS is working so hard to put out year long quest content for us to pay for and yet can't be bothered to create an option to fit all of the player base. Feels wasted to me.

Well for me, I just know that chapter content is no longer worth my purchase. It's clear that players like me are not welcome in this game, so I don't have to continue supporting a product that no longer wants me.

I bought last chapter mostly for trial as companions are useless addition to the game for me and i don't enjoy questing anymore. If new chapter wouldn't provide something extraordinary then i will probably skip it too. Not a lot of content for ppl like me

This is the only MMO I have ever played that didn't make new content specifically for higher level players. Once you've reached a certain level, there's no reason to keep going anymore.

Knowing that the devs don't think I'm important, and the community only sees me as someone who needs to be forced into their lower level instances so they can ask me for help when they face any semblance of challenge, is a continuous reminder that this game has no place for me.

One of the reasons some of us just farm the mythics and achievements fast to gtfo from there until some event kicks in, possibly.

SilverBride

Franchise408 wrote: »

This is the only MMO I have ever played that didn't make new content specifically for higher level players. Once you've reached a certain level, there's no reason to keep going anymore.

Knowing that the devs don't think I'm important, and the community only sees me as someone who needs to be forced into their lower level instances so they can ask me for help when they face any semblance of challenge, is a continuous reminder that this game has no place for me.

What about all the veteran dungeons and trials and arenas? They aren't making this content for the casual players.

ZOS_GregoryV

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LashanW

SilverBride wrote: »

The value I see in a debuff is it solves what many have stated that their issue is... that mobs die too fast, which they find boring and immersion breaking. What difference does it make why the mobs no longer die fast as long as the stated issue is resolved?

Self debuffs work fine for offline games, I've used them in several single player games. But they are not great in online games.

• Normal players and debuffed players are in same overland instance and might be fighting same enemies. Makes no sense unless the debuff has some other benefits. (A lot of debuffs I've used in other games has other benefits attached so that players don't find it pointless. Small benefits like 10% more xp gain, or 5% more gold gain, slightly higher drop rate for loot etc. No exclusive rewards tho)
• Debuffs will solve the problem where mobs have too low health and do negligible damage. But it doesn't solve the problem where overland mobs have the behavior of sloths (as in they waste a lot of time doing nothing in between their attacks)

So I'm not a fan of debuffs (with no benefits) as an end solution, but will take it as it will at least improve the instanced stories a bit.

FlopsyPrince

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

And Harrowstorms illustrate the lack of value for most doing veteran overland content. I rarely see anyone doing these except during an event. I jumped in with 2 others the other day and spent 20-30 minutes trying to work it, but the pillars kept getting back to full health almost immediately, meaning we had absolutely NO PROGRESS after all that effort. This is "fun"?

At least less powerful players can do something to Dolmans. They can do nothing here because the towers are constantly healed with the spirits while masses of mobs spawn to kill you.

I am sure we will get some to jump on here that say "I solo those!" and I am sure they do. But how much of their time do they spend doing that? They most likely have gotten bored and moved on.

That is exactly what would happen to veteran overland. Lots of time making things very hard that the target audience would not stick with.

I couldn't agree more.

We already had veteran overland zones an no one played them. That and the split playerbase are two of the biggest reasons why One Tamriel was introduced. If anything ESO has gotten more casual over time and is doing better now than it ever has.

I believe it would be a huge step backward to split the playerbase again, and would cause a lot of casual players to leave, especially if a veteran overland offered better rewards.

I would just like to remind you that in this game, apart from Craglorn, whose problems have already been discussed here more than once, there have never been any truly veteran locations. Yes, the gold and silver zones led us to the so-called veteran locations that required us to have veteran levels. However, mobs of your level have always been easy, and it doesn't matter at level 10 or at veteran 10. So the difficulty of the locations never increased. The players only needed to meet the required level, not only for one location, but also inside the location, which was very frustrating so we could not freely explore the zone. So the difference between level 1 and level 5 mobs was colossal. In fact, level 10 mobs were unkillable for a level 5-6 player.

@FlopsyPrince, there is a big difference between "play" and "complete". I have a lot of coagulants and reagents from dragons. I have everything related to these achievements. I have "closed" or "completed" this content. For me, as for many other players, there is absolutely no incentive to return to the zone, even if it is no more than two or three months old. Because all overland content isn't just too trivial - it's one-off. Sometimes I really go back to Summerset to farm the geysers for the reagents, but since the drop chance is very small, I get bored very quickly.
The fact that you complain that no one is doing dragons and storms, confirms that overland as a whole is of little interest to anyone. Most of the players completed it and left.

You actually make some of my point for me. You would only do everything once, yet it would take a significant amount of development time to make each part of overland "fun" for you, something you would likely go through once and be done with it.

I certain you would enjoy it more, but would your enjoyment likely once and the enjoyment would end. The comment earlier from you or someone else about dragons and Harrowstorms shows those at least got lots of replay. (Compressed and over, but replay.) Yet in that case we are left with a part of the game most people simply won't do anymore.

I keep stating it, but development time to make overland content more challenging for you would likely take a LOT of work. Do you really think they have that much development time for a "once and done" area? (You might do it again on alts, but even I don't do that myself, and I have been through the Alik'r main quest 40 or so times now.

LashanW

Franchise408 wrote: »

As it is, the only purpose served by not "splitting the playerbase" is so the higher level vet players can be at the beck and call of lower level players when they need help. There is no need for grouping in any capacity in ESO's overland. Even public dungeons can be solo'd with ease.

There is absolutely no need to keep the playerbase together - other than the serve the needs of the lower level players who want to use the services of higher level players at their need - if content is going to be so tediously easy that grouping will never be required.

I'm feeling the same regarding concerns over "split playerbase". It's not like we're going to have a wide number of isolated instances like in the old days.

We are told again and again that a veteran overland is a minority request and too few people would actually use it. Well then, what's the harm if a few veteran players are gone to a different veteran instance while majority of the players are staying in normal instance? Are these majority of players unable to handle world events together without a few veteran players?

Some of these veteran players are already not participating in world events btw. For example when I'm in overland I'm minding my own business, I only help with world events if it's a guildie or someone I know is asking it.

If it's chatting in zone chat, I do admit there is a lot of activity there. But in PC-EU I see just as many guild advertisements (some even in languages I don't understand) and carry run sellers spamming zone chat. So most of the time I end up ignoring zone chat.

Or do people realize but refuse to admit that a significant number of people are actually dissatisfied with current overland and would migrate to a veteran version in a mass exodus?

FlopsyPrince

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

Yes, the gold and silver zones led us to the so-called veteran locations that required us to have veteran levels. However, mobs of your level have always been easy, and it doesn't matter at level 10 or at veteran 10. So the difficulty of the locations never increased.

Yes it did and players quite often complained about the difficulty increase. Just because it was not an issue for you doesn't mean it was not an issue. The devs themselves stated they got a lot of negative feedback about the difficulty and the person you're talking to was relaying their own personal negative experience with the difficulty.

As for the extra difficulty, that's something our playerbase has talked about for a long time. A lot of our original players forget that we had that with [Cadwell's Gold and Silver] way back when. The feedback that we got about that was they didn't like it. It wasn't fun. The extra difficulty wasn't what they wanted. They wanted to enjoy the story. It's a catch-22.

I've heard a lot of players complaining that the zones required the appropriate level, even within the same location. And the players could not freely explore the location. The mobs in the south of Auridon were significantly stronger than the mobs in the north of Auridon. But they did not fundamentally differ from the zones of silver and gold. I played then and I remember very well. I started out as a nightblade archer. I didn't even use any healing skills, only potions. And I didn't have any difficulties in the overland. ESO was my first mmo. I didn't have any sets at all. I learned about the existence of craft sets when I was 14 vr.

Again, that's your personal experience. Your personal experience doesn't negate others personal experience nor the devs statement that they did remove difficulty.

It's great that you didn't have trouble. It probably means you have good reflexes and you're probably a skilled player now. But your personal anecdote simply doesn't trump the devs design decisions nor the feedback of others.

The majority of people did find the difficulty increase to be noticeable and they didn't like that difficulty. When they studied the game to fix it they looked at the feedback and data they were getting and the majority explicitly cited the difficulty as one of their pain points and their play data also reflected that.

It was most certainly not the only problem. But it was one of them. And this history lead to the current Overland design, and that has made them a success.

I don’t deny that people have different experiences. However, I cannot say that I played well. I couldn't even complete any group dungeons on my level. I understand that no one should be able to play, but it's really hard for me to imagine how an 8vr player could have difficulty completing content for 6-7vr. Most likely this player was doing something wrong.
Also, when the OT release took place, I did not notice the difference in the difficulty of the mobs, they were the same for me as they always were. Therefore, I do not believe that the difficulty has been reduced. ZoS just removed the levels.

They literally stated they did. And other players noted how much better it felt. So I don't know what to tell you. I think it's pretty objectively true that they adjusted the difficulty and that players left feedback they enjoyed it, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on that.

It could easily be they just lowered mob hit points and the points of damage they did (overall, not by specific mob).

That would make it easier for most, yet not take fine tuning so many different locations. I don't see the reverse working as well for those wanting harder overland content however. Wouldn't they expect lots of tuning to make it all fun, hard and challenging, and then only run through the story once on one character, or perhaps a few times on a couple of alts as well.

I am compulsive and I only earned Caldwell's gold (the new version) on my main on the PS4 NA. I will probably do the same for my main on PC, but doing it for alts is way down the priority list.

FlopsyPrince

colossalvoids wrote: »

I hope you can see the difference between a solo game debuffs, universal debuffs like bs and a debuff working just for you alone and not affecting anyone around.

I am skeptical it would add the value asked for by some in this thread, but I would expect it would not be too hard. They already buff up lower level players (somehow) so they can run with max level characters without dying all the time. The reverse should be doable, though it may or may not be helpful.

FlopsyPrince

Franchise408 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Debuffs are definitely a matter of taste. I won't care what others are doing because seeing people hitting harder than me is a normal part of multiplayer gaming. I just don't want to fight off the bigger crowds that come with every new content launch.

I for one wouldn't find it too amusing. Going some extra steps to debuff myself just to have someone casually 2 hitting the quest boss I try to squeeze a fight out of isn't exactly what people are asking for. And with a look at the "vet players are ruining my casual dungeon experience" threads, this isn't an uncommon issue. And no, someone building to hit harder with the same premises as me isn't the same.

TBF the instance-wide debuff thing would probably be the easy way out, the lazy but somewhat working compromise.

But on the other hand. ZOS is working so hard to put out year long quest content for us to pay for and yet can't be bothered to create an option to fit all of the player base. Feels wasted to me.

Well for me, I just know that chapter content is no longer worth my purchase. It's clear that players like me are not welcome in this game, so I don't have to continue supporting a product that no longer wants me.

No longer welcome? Where did anyone say you weren't welcome in the game?

The game may not be what you want, but that would be a different issue. No one is telling you not to play.

I am still annoyed I left 50K+ Crowns on the PS4 and all my mounts, but I would just call that a bad decision that irks me on an ongoing basis, not a proclamation they don't want me to play.

They will often not do what we want, but we then can decide to play or not. I only see those banned as being told they are not wanted. I am sure they want you to play, even if they do not spend the large amount of time to provide what you have said you want.

Chilly-McFreeze

SilverBride wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

I for one wouldn't find it too amusing. Going some extra steps to debuff myself just to have someone casually 2 hitting the quest boss I try to squeeze a fight out of isn't exactly what people are asking for. And with a look at the "vet players are ruining my casual dungeon experience" threads, this isn't an uncommon issue. And no, someone building to hit harder with the same premises as me isn't the same.

TBF the instance-wide debuff thing would probably be the easy way out, the lazy but somewhat working compromise.

But on the other hand. ZOS is working so hard to put out year long quest content for us to pay for and yet can't be bothered to create an option to fit all of the player base. Feels wasted to me.

As I said there are always going to be new players and experienced players of all types in all the zones. The only way to avoid that is to make overland instanced, which it may as well be a single player game in that case. Or to start all players at max level so they are all the same power, which would completely ruin the fun of leveling. Neither of those are good options.

Huh?

Overland zones are already instanced. Depending on how many players are in each zone there are multiple instances of it at the same time. This can easily be seen when you group up with a friend, both standing in the same spot, yet you only see his live bar.
So where is the issue in having two instances at standard: one with the current stats, one with buffed NPCs/ debuffed players? THis wouldn't make it any more solo-esque than it is now.

" Or to start all players at max level so they are all the same power, which would completely ruin the fun of leveling" - isn't this what battleleveling is all about? You grow weaker from level 1 to 50. Or are you talking about those awesome CP that nets you 2% crit and penetration?

SilverBride

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

As I said there are always going to be new players and experienced players of all types in all the zones. The only way to avoid that is to make overland instanced, which it may as well be a single player game in that case...

Huh?

Overland zones are already instanced. Depending on how many players are in each zone there are multiple instances of it at the same time. This can easily be seen when you group up with a friend, both standing in the same spot, yet you only see his live bar.

I meant instanced like dungeons are.

Harvokaan

SilverBride wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

As I said there are always going to be new players and experienced players of all types in all the zones. The only way to avoid that is to make overland instanced, which it may as well be a single player game in that case...

Huh?

Overland zones are already instanced. Depending on how many players are in each zone there are multiple instances of it at the same time. This can easily be seen when you group up with a friend, both standing in the same spot, yet you only see his live bar.

I meant instanced like dungeons are.

And how do you know how dungeon instances are working currently? My guess is, they just have two (or three if separate for hm) set of data values like mob/boss hp, damage and boolean flags that dictates the quality of loot from, which mechanics are enabled and which are blocked, etc.
Mobs and bosses don't have different set of mechanics on normal/vet. Some of the mechanics are just disabled for normal or vet without HM, thats why they can easily tweak the numeric values on pts. They change the difficulty of the new dungeons on pts a lot, they can do so because after you have the set of data prepared, with minimal changes to those values you can change a lot difficulty wise. You can turn off the mechanics in a fly (they did that by for example removing requirement to finish hm of first two bosses to see the hm on last boss), change hp and damage instantly (they do that a lot on pts).
What they would do in that case for vet instances is to prepare new set of data for vet instances which would be a copy of existing set with new numerical values. The biggest dev work would be a technology to create separate instances but it is already in the game.
[Snip].
Edited for typos

[Edited for minor bait]

SilverBride

Harvokaan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

As I said there are always going to be new players and experienced players of all types in all the zones. The only way to avoid that is to make overland instanced, which it may as well be a single player game in that case...

Huh?

Overland zones are already instanced. Depending on how many players are in each zone there are multiple instances of it at the same time. This can easily be seen when you group up with a friend, both standing in the same spot, yet you only see his live bar.

I meant instanced like dungeons are.

And how do you know how dungeon instances are working currently?

I was replying to the conversation quoted above. The poster expressed they didn't want a debuff because they didn't want to see others who weren't debuffed killing things faster than them. I replied that the only way to avoid that would be if overland was instanced.

I wasn't referring to the identical instances of overland that hold all the players of the megaserver. I was referring to being instanced like dungeons are, i.e. private instances that only the player and/or their group are in.

That is all I said.