Overland Content Feedback Thread

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Rudrani wrote: »

I wonder if this will ever be more than a pinned thread.

At the very least I wish we could get a new green post on it that wasn't just moderation.

I agree. Some feedback would be great.

Is there anything that can be shared, @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin ?

NeeScrolls

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Rudrani wrote: »

I wonder if this will ever be more than a pinned thread.

At the very least I wish we could get a new green post on it that wasn't just moderation.

I agree. Some feedback would be great.

Is there anything that can be shared, @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin ?

imho , u guys are being way too thirsty with all the @ 's

Zenimax devs will post when they feel compelled (as needed, and as directed) . They made this thread to gather feedback, yes, but also to placate the playerbase a bit. Either way, they now have 50 pages ( FIFTY PAGES ) of feedback to read. (although a bulk of the thread has predictably turned into a bloated echo-chamber of same replies from the same few people )

Anyways, i've posted my ideas/suggestions already and they were dismissed. Personally, there are enough sections of certain map zones that offer some solo challenge, therefore imo 'overland' is just fine the way it is now and not worth it to change it anymore.

As for this 50 page thread: Just like nearly every "controversial" type topic nowdays, it's basically a 50/50 split with neither side willing to budge. Why the @ZOS_ names would even bother injecting any further comments now is beyond me tbqh.

No matter what they say, it's gonna aggravate half the players----or at least, half the vocal FORUM players.

Sylvermynx

I've been on various game forums - either as a mod myself, or as a long-time poster helping other players - and the one thing that hasn't happened since BG 1 is a dev making any kind of post to suggestion or complaint threads, stickied or not. The BG 1 devs posted some - and got in some hot water over it too.

Not real likely to happen here.

spartaxoxo

Sylvermynx wrote: »

I've been on various game forums - either as a mod myself, or as a long-time poster helping other players - and the one thing that hasn't happened since BG 1 is a dev making any kind of post to suggestion or complaint threads, stickied or not. The BG 1 devs posted some - and got in some hot water over it too.

Not real likely to happen here.

I have too and been a mod myself, and have seen it even as recently as this month on the Overwatch forum. It's usually not as a response to controversial suggestions but, this one is both stickied and they have responded to this topic already before. So I don't see why this one couldn't be responded to without issue when they have already responded on it 3 times before.

I'm not holding my breath but this is something i think they definitely should respond to.

Sylvermynx

Eh, well.... two of the three are the normal "remove/edit" just like in other threads.

spartaxoxo

Sylvermynx wrote: »

Eh, well.... two of the three are the normal "remove/edit" just like in other threads.

I'm not talking about in this thread. They responded to these suggestions on Twitter, in an interview, and on Twitch prior to making this thread.

Sylvermynx

Oh. Social media. I don't mess with that.

Elsonso

.,

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Rudrani wrote: »

I wonder if this will ever be more than a pinned thread.

At the very least I wish we could get a new green post on it that wasn't just moderation.

I agree. Some feedback would be great.

Is there anything that can be shared, ZOS_GinaBruno ZOS_Kevin ?

The way i see it is that they are never going to post an update on what they are thinking in this thread. They gain nothing with that, and can lose for doing it.

spartaxoxo

Elsonso wrote: »

.,

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Rudrani wrote: »

I wonder if this will ever be more than a pinned thread.

At the very least I wish we could get a new green post on it that wasn't just moderation.

I agree. Some feedback would be great.

Is there anything that can be shared, ZOS_GinaBruno ZOS_Kevin ?

The way i see it is that they are never going to post an update on what they are thinking in this thread. They gain nothing with that, and can lose for doing it.

Lose what? They already said no before.

SilverBride

Elsonso wrote: »

The way i see it is that they are never going to post an update on what they are thinking in this thread. They gain nothing with that, and can lose for doing it.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/542870/please-give-us-back-rapid-maneuver/p1

Remember this thread? It was a very hot topic, and eventually there was a reply given by @ZOS_GinaBruno on their current stand on the topic.

Things did eventually get reworked in an even better way than the OP of that thread had requested, so they can and sometimes do change their stand. All we are asking is where do things stand at this time and is there any possibility of the presented ideas being considered in the future.

NeeScrolls

SilverBride wrote: »

All we are asking is where do things stand at this time and is there any possibility of the presented ideas being considered in the future.

The very existence of this thread, 50 pages+ stickied, is evidence of a possibility, no?

Provide feedback, as requested. Done. Now i dunno, maybe try waiting patiently? Heck, at least until after 2022 arrives.

SilverBride

NeeScrolls wrote: »

The very existence of this thread, 50 pages+ stickied, is evidence of a possibility, no?

Actually no.

This thread wasn't started and pinned because they are considering the proposal. It was started and pinned to keep the discussion in one thread because multiple threads were creating a negative experience on the forum overall, as per the OP.

Ronin37

Simply can we get harder overland content. It is a shame the devs put energy into the final bosses of story lines and such and we never get to see special abilities or anything those mobs do because they are dead in a second or increase the difficulty of public dungeons to that of Craglorn PGs.

SilverBride

Ronin37 wrote: »

Simply can we get harder overland content. It is a shame the devs put energy into the final bosses of story lines and such and we never get to see special abilities or anything those mobs do because they are dead in a second or increase the difficulty of public dungeons to that of Craglorn PGs.

We don't need overland more difficult for everyone, especially those of us who don't want it, to make the final boss fight more difficult. That can be done just for the player who wants it with a challenge banner.

And we do not need to make public dungeons more difficult for everyone whether they like it or not, just because some players want that. There are just as many (more) who don't.

Ronin37

Harvokaan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

And Harrowstorms illustrate the lack of value for most doing veteran overland content. I rarely see anyone doing these except during an event. I jumped in with 2 others the other day and spent 20-30 minutes trying to work it, but the pillars kept getting back to full health almost immediately, meaning we had absolutely NO PROGRESS after all that effort. This is "fun"?

At least less powerful players can do something to Dolmans. They can do nothing here because the towers are constantly healed with the spirits while masses of mobs spawn to kill you.

I am sure we will get some to jump on here that say "I solo those!" and I am sure they do. But how much of their time do they spend doing that? They most likely have gotten bored and moved on.

That is exactly what would happen to veteran overland. Lots of time making things very hard that the target audience would not stick with.

I couldn't agree more.

We already had veteran overland zones an no one played them. That and the split playerbase are two of the biggest reasons why One Tamriel was introduced. If anything ESO has gotten more casual over time and is doing better now than it ever has.

I believe it would be a huge step backward to split the playerbase again, and would cause a lot of casual players to leave, especially if a veteran overland offered better rewards.

We never had a veteran overland, I even listed you the differences to which you even agreed. Why you are repeating something that already in this thread was debunked as a simply not true is beyond me really. Reminder:

SilverBride wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Also, please explain how an optional veteran overland is different from the veteran overland zones that existed before One Tamriel, because the only difference I see is that it would be optional.

- Optional
- Two type of instances instead of 3 (normal, vet vs AD, EP, DC) + bigger game population (more ppl in both instance types)
- no restrictions based on factions [i think this one was a major pain point of older game version, because of that if you choose to play khajiit in AD you couldn't play together with your friend who played orc in DC + other stupid problems]
- no forced quest route, for example if you dont like EP storyline, you dont need to do it, before OT decision where you go was based on zone level
- no outleveling or underleveling
- all additions and QoL accessible today vs ESO qol from 2014 (or rather lack of any)
- no quests that force you to group (you can do quests solo or in group) like in old Craglorn

Thank you for your answer. This is a good description of how the game was before One Tamriel and clearly shows that this isn't what you, or any of us want today.

Why change it now? [snip]

[edited for baiting]

Harvokaan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

And Harrowstorms illustrate the lack of value for most doing veteran overland content. I rarely see anyone doing these except during an event. I jumped in with 2 others the other day and spent 20-30 minutes trying to work it, but the pillars kept getting back to full health almost immediately, meaning we had absolutely NO PROGRESS after all that effort. This is "fun"?

At least less powerful players can do something to Dolmans. They can do nothing here because the towers are constantly healed with the spirits while masses of mobs spawn to kill you.

I am sure we will get some to jump on here that say "I solo those!" and I am sure they do. But how much of their time do they spend doing that? They most likely have gotten bored and moved on.

That is exactly what would happen to veteran overland. Lots of time making things very hard that the target audience would not stick with.

I couldn't agree more.

We already had veteran overland zones an no one played them. That and the split playerbase are two of the biggest reasons why One Tamriel was introduced. If anything ESO has gotten more casual over time and is doing better now than it ever has.

I believe it would be a huge step backward to split the playerbase again, and would cause a lot of casual players to leave, especially if a veteran overland offered better rewards.

We never had a veteran overland, I even listed you the differences to which you even agreed. Why you are repeating something that already in this thread was debunked as a simply not true is beyond me really. Reminder:

SilverBride wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Also, please explain how an optional veteran overland is different from the veteran overland zones that existed before One Tamriel, because the only difference I see is that it would be optional.

- Optional
- Two type of instances instead of 3 (normal, vet vs AD, EP, DC) + bigger game population (more ppl in both instance types)
- no restrictions based on factions [i think this one was a major pain point of older game version, because of that if you choose to play khajiit in AD you couldn't play together with your friend who played orc in DC + other stupid problems]
- no forced quest route, for example if you dont like EP storyline, you dont need to do it, before OT decision where you go was based on zone level
- no outleveling or underleveling
- all additions and QoL accessible today vs ESO qol from 2014 (or rather lack of any)
- no quests that force you to group (you can do quests solo or in group) like in old Craglorn

Thank you for your answer. This is a good description of how the game was before One Tamriel and clearly shows that this isn't what you, or any of us want today.

Why change it now? [snip]

[edited for baiting]

He is talking about the original Craglorn zone.

Ronin37

SilverBride wrote: »

Ronin37 wrote: »

Simply can we get harder overland content. It is a shame the devs put energy into the final bosses of story lines and such and we never get to see special abilities or anything those mobs do because they are dead in a second or increase the difficulty of public dungeons to that of Craglorn PGs.

We don't need overland more difficult for everyone, especially those of us who don't want it, to make the final boss fight more difficult. That can be done just for the player who wants it with a challenge banner.

And we do not need to make public dungeons more difficult for everyone whether they like it or not, just because some players want that. There are just as many (more) who don't.

So in that case make the game a visual novel.

SilverBride

Ronin37 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We don't need overland more difficult for everyone, especially those of us who don't want it, to make the final boss fight more difficult. That can be done just for the player who wants it with a challenge banner.

And we do not need to make public dungeons more difficult for everyone whether they like it or not, just because some players want that. There are just as many (more) who don't.

So in that case make the game a visual novel.

Or we could leave it exactly as it is, which has been very successful.

Harvokaan

SilverBride wrote: »

Ronin37 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We don't need overland more difficult for everyone, especially those of us who don't want it, to make the final boss fight more difficult. That can be done just for the player who wants it with a challenge banner.

And we do not need to make public dungeons more difficult for everyone whether they like it or not, just because some players want that. There are just as many (more) who don't.

So in that case make the game a visual novel.

Or we could leave it exactly as it is, which has been very successful.

I wouldn't call the current state of the game healthy tbh.
ESO have a big problem and that is both end game pve and pvp players are leaving in masses. Those are the players that produce most of the materials about the game like yt videos, tutorials, sites, articles, guides, twitch streams, etc. All of that is valuable both for new (not only) players who seek for a materials about the game and for zos who can treat that as free advertisement. It was always the case, for any mmo. For example WoW was known mostly for its raids even if only a small percentage of players participate at the highiest difficulty level. But often those players produce materials like guides, streams or videos that bring other ppl to the game.
ZOS knows that, thats why they for example bring sypherPK back for their advertisement campaign not long time ago (dude was mainly an end game pvp player). Most views on twitch for eso content was mainly a pvp streams.
For the mmorpg to stay healthy it require to have a healthy end game population and eso lost a lot of it in past two years. You don't play with those ppl but I do and I can see how the population changed. Less players who push content outside of the game, less info about the game in net == less ppl attracted to the title.
Currently the healthiest community (number wise) in eso is a housing one but that alone probably won't be enough to keep ppl interested. As for questing, most ppl interested only in questing will select single player game 99% of time as mmo quests are often worse quality then good (story wise) single player title. Fact that quality of stories since last two chapters is mediocre at best is not helping it either.

Lysette

One way to introduce a difficulty slider, which provides a new challenge, is to embrace unpredictability - things do not work all the time as expected. Someone not wanting a challenge will still have 100% working skills and proc sets - but for those seeking an unpredictable challenge, where they actually have to pay attention what is going on in a fight, have like 5-25% failing skills and proc set activations - this is as well effecting muscle memory rotations and puts the challenge on actual mindful reaction to what is happening, instead of just mindlessly twitching buttons.

This would provide a new kind of challenge which requires quick mindful reaction instead of mindlessly doing rotations. The latter would kill every higher challenge after a short while, when muscle memory has adapted to it - here it cannot adapt.

This said, I'm a below average player - but I would eventually choose 10% failure rate, because even I think it is a bit too easy for good. I'm strictly against higher rewards for more difficulty - this is just a measure taken, to adjust your fun in a fight, not to achieve more gain.

And to what the healthiest community is - most likely new players who avoid the forum and just enjoy it as it is.

Ronin37

SilverBride wrote: »

Ronin37 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We don't need overland more difficult for everyone, especially those of us who don't want it, to make the final boss fight more difficult. That can be done just for the player who wants it with a challenge banner.

And we do not need to make public dungeons more difficult for everyone whether they like it or not, just because some players want that. There are just as many (more) who don't.

So in that case make the game a visual novel.

Or we could leave it exactly as it is, which has been very successful.

Or they take 80% percent of the bland flavored game and do something to spice it up. Maybe some of us can maybe have a need to use the 3k + soul gems we have. It's insanity people really want a game to not actually be a game. No difficulty, no fun, not even really a place for role play. Other games do way better. You guys literally want the wow wow wubbzy of MMOs.

spartaxoxo

Harvokaan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Ronin37 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We don't need overland more difficult for everyone, especially those of us who don't want it, to make the final boss fight more difficult. That can be done just for the player who wants it with a challenge banner.

And we do not need to make public dungeons more difficult for everyone whether they like it or not, just because some players want that. There are just as many (more) who don't.

So in that case make the game a visual novel.

Or we could leave it exactly as it is, which has been very successful.

I wouldn't call the current state of the game healthy tbh.
ESO have a big problem and that is both end game pve and pvp players are leaving in masses.

If players were leaving in large amounts and not being replaced by new people, then the game wouldn't still be growing but it's grown every year since One Tamriel. It might lose players this year as those were here to play during pandemic leave, but it's actually retained a pretty large amount of those new players too and will end 2021 better than it was in 2019 in terms of player population. This indicates both that they are still getting plenty of new players despite the lack of people on Twitch, and that they are doing a good job of retaining people as well.

A large part of this is the way Overland is designed, as that's the first system most people interact with. The very first impression of the game. And that first impression currently allows for them to play the game they want and explore, and make friends of vet players that can help them grow their characters or take on more difficult challenges. They join guilds from these interactions and experience the rest of the game. And eventually they become the vet player guiding the next group of players.

Harvokaan

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Ronin37 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We don't need overland more difficult for everyone, especially those of us who don't want it, to make the final boss fight more difficult. That can be done just for the player who wants it with a challenge banner.

And we do not need to make public dungeons more difficult for everyone whether they like it or not, just because some players want that. There are just as many (more) who don't.

So in that case make the game a visual novel.

Or we could leave it exactly as it is, which has been very successful.

I wouldn't call the current state of the game healthy tbh.
ESO have a big problem and that is both end game pve and pvp players are leaving in masses.

If players were leaving in large amounts and not being replaced by new people, then the game wouldn't still be growing but it's grown every year since One Tamriel. It might lose players this year as those were here to play during pandemic leave, but it's actually retained a pretty large amount of those new players too and will end 2021 better than it was in 2019 in terms of player population. This indicates both that they are still getting plenty of new players despite the lack of people on Twitch, and that they are doing a good job of retaining people as well.

A large part of this is the way Overland is designed, as that's the first system most people interact with. The very first impression of the game. And that first impression currently allows for them to play the game they want and explore, and make friends of vet players that can help them grow their characters or take on more difficult challenges. They join guilds from these interactions and experience the rest of the game. And eventually they become the vet player guiding the next group of players.

The normal route is that some players leave and being replaced by new ones. PvE end game guilds were increasing they numbers till around Elsweyr, after that problem started. This year I saw a lot of problems because big amount of pvers left but new players numbers were pretty low. Vets leaving the game wouldn't be the problem if they would be replaced by fresh blood but that is not the case recently.
As for pvp it is a disaster, entire guilds left the game. As for active players numbers, based on steam statistic, twitch stats or mmo-population.com stats (biggest site of this kind) we can see that eso lost big amount of players it gained during first covid lockdown in 2020. We are at the lowest amount of active twich channels since December 2019, lowest steam average player count since march 2020, lowest active population chart from mmo-population.com since jan 2020.
This shows us not an exact number of active players as only zos have the data but we can see some pattern here. I'm far from saying "eso is dying" but the game have some problems with the population right now, even with end of the year period being usually pretty low population wise, the current numbers are not something you can be optimistic about.

spartaxoxo

Harvokaan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Ronin37 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We don't need overland more difficult for everyone, especially those of us who don't want it, to make the final boss fight more difficult. That can be done just for the player who wants it with a challenge banner.

And we do not need to make public dungeons more difficult for everyone whether they like it or not, just because some players want that. There are just as many (more) who don't.

So in that case make the game a visual novel.

Or we could leave it exactly as it is, which has been very successful.

I wouldn't call the current state of the game healthy tbh.
ESO have a big problem and that is both end game pve and pvp players are leaving in masses.

If players were leaving in large amounts and not being replaced by new people, then the game wouldn't still be growing but it's grown every year since One Tamriel. It might lose players this year as those were here to play during pandemic leave, but it's actually retained a pretty large amount of those new players too and will end 2021 better than it was in 2019 in terms of player population. This indicates both that they are still getting plenty of new players despite the lack of people on Twitch, and that they are doing a good job of retaining people as well.

A large part of this is the way Overland is designed, as that's the first system most people interact with. The very first impression of the game. And that first impression currently allows for them to play the game they want and explore, and make friends of vet players that can help them grow their characters or take on more difficult challenges. They join guilds from these interactions and experience the rest of the game. And eventually they become the vet player guiding the next group of players.

The normal route is that some players leave and being replaced by new ones. PvE end game guilds were increasing they numbers till around Elsweyr, after that problem started. This year I saw a lot of problems because big amount of pvers left but new players numbers were pretty low. Vets leaving the game wouldn't be the problem if they would be replaced by fresh blood but that is not the case recently.
As for pvp it is a disaster, entire guilds left the game. As for active players numbers, based on steam statistic, twitch stats or mmo-population.com stats (biggest site of this kind) we can see that eso lost big amount of players it gained during first covid lockdown in 2020. We are at the lowest amount of active twich channels since December 2019, lowest steam average player count since march 2020, lowest active population chart from mmo-population.com since jan 2020.
This shows us not an exact number of active players as only zos have the data but we can see some pattern here. I'm far from saying "eso is dying" but the game have some problems with the population right now, even with end of the year period being usually pretty low population wise, the current numbers are not something you can be optimistic about.

Losing the Covid numbers is to be expected but if you compare this time 2019 to this time 2021, ESO has still gained players overall. Which means they actually did retain a good chunk of the 2020 players. Many games are losing the temporary pandemic boom, so that's not anything to be concerned about. There's a lot of people out there that don't really game much that found themselves cooped up during the pandemic that gave many games a try, and now they are simply done playing games and are going out more. You look at 2019 and you look at now, it's retained players and even added some.

SilverBride

Harvokaan wrote: »

I wouldn't call the current state of the game healthy tbh.
ESO have a big problem and that is both end game pve and pvp players are leaving in masses.

There is no proof of this.

Rich Lambert said a few months ago that the game is doing better now than it ever has. I trust his word.

Harvokaan

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Ronin37 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We don't need overland more difficult for everyone, especially those of us who don't want it, to make the final boss fight more difficult. That can be done just for the player who wants it with a challenge banner.

And we do not need to make public dungeons more difficult for everyone whether they like it or not, just because some players want that. There are just as many (more) who don't.

So in that case make the game a visual novel.

Or we could leave it exactly as it is, which has been very successful.

I wouldn't call the current state of the game healthy tbh.
ESO have a big problem and that is both end game pve and pvp players are leaving in masses.

If players were leaving in large amounts and not being replaced by new people, then the game wouldn't still be growing but it's grown every year since One Tamriel. It might lose players this year as those were here to play during pandemic leave, but it's actually retained a pretty large amount of those new players too and will end 2021 better than it was in 2019 in terms of player population. This indicates both that they are still getting plenty of new players despite the lack of people on Twitch, and that they are doing a good job of retaining people as well.

A large part of this is the way Overland is designed, as that's the first system most people interact with. The very first impression of the game. And that first impression currently allows for them to play the game they want and explore, and make friends of vet players that can help them grow their characters or take on more difficult challenges. They join guilds from these interactions and experience the rest of the game. And eventually they become the vet player guiding the next group of players.

The normal route is that some players leave and being replaced by new ones. PvE end game guilds were increasing they numbers till around Elsweyr, after that problem started. This year I saw a lot of problems because big amount of pvers left but new players numbers were pretty low. Vets leaving the game wouldn't be the problem if they would be replaced by fresh blood but that is not the case recently.
As for pvp it is a disaster, entire guilds left the game. As for active players numbers, based on steam statistic, twitch stats or mmo-population.com stats (biggest site of this kind) we can see that eso lost big amount of players it gained during first covid lockdown in 2020. We are at the lowest amount of active twich channels since December 2019, lowest steam average player count since march 2020, lowest active population chart from mmo-population.com since jan 2020.
This shows us not an exact number of active players as only zos have the data but we can see some pattern here. I'm far from saying "eso is dying" but the game have some problems with the population right now, even with end of the year period being usually pretty low population wise, the current numbers are not something you can be optimistic about.

Losing the Covid numbers is to be expected but if you compare this time 2019 to this time 2021, ESO has still gained players overall. Which means they actually did retain a good chunk of the 2020 players. Many games are losing the temporary pandemic boom, so that's not anything to be concerned about. There's a lot of people out there that don't really game much that found themselves cooped up during the pandemic that gave many games a try, and now they are simply done playing games and are going out more. You look at 2019 and you look at now, it's retained players and even added some.

Not really as most covid lockdowns started at march 2020 and huge increase of eso population due to covid happened between april and may 2020. We are comparing numbers before covid player influx, which indicates that eso have now less players that it had before the whole lockdown party started for good. At best you can say it retained the numbers from beginning of 2020 but it isnt really a big achievement in times when wow lost more than half it playerbase and almost every mmo see an influx of wow refugees (ff xiv being the biggest beneficient of it for sure).

spartaxoxo

Harvokaan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Ronin37 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We don't need overland more difficult for everyone, especially those of us who don't want it, to make the final boss fight more difficult. That can be done just for the player who wants it with a challenge banner.

And we do not need to make public dungeons more difficult for everyone whether they like it or not, just because some players want that. There are just as many (more) who don't.

So in that case make the game a visual novel.

Or we could leave it exactly as it is, which has been very successful.

I wouldn't call the current state of the game healthy tbh.
ESO have a big problem and that is both end game pve and pvp players are leaving in masses.

If players were leaving in large amounts and not being replaced by new people, then the game wouldn't still be growing but it's grown every year since One Tamriel. It might lose players this year as those were here to play during pandemic leave, but it's actually retained a pretty large amount of those new players too and will end 2021 better than it was in 2019 in terms of player population. This indicates both that they are still getting plenty of new players despite the lack of people on Twitch, and that they are doing a good job of retaining people as well.

A large part of this is the way Overland is designed, as that's the first system most people interact with. The very first impression of the game. And that first impression currently allows for them to play the game they want and explore, and make friends of vet players that can help them grow their characters or take on more difficult challenges. They join guilds from these interactions and experience the rest of the game. And eventually they become the vet player guiding the next group of players.

The normal route is that some players leave and being replaced by new ones. PvE end game guilds were increasing they numbers till around Elsweyr, after that problem started. This year I saw a lot of problems because big amount of pvers left but new players numbers were pretty low. Vets leaving the game wouldn't be the problem if they would be replaced by fresh blood but that is not the case recently.
As for pvp it is a disaster, entire guilds left the game. As for active players numbers, based on steam statistic, twitch stats or mmo-population.com stats (biggest site of this kind) we can see that eso lost big amount of players it gained during first covid lockdown in 2020. We are at the lowest amount of active twich channels since December 2019, lowest steam average player count since march 2020, lowest active population chart from mmo-population.com since jan 2020.
This shows us not an exact number of active players as only zos have the data but we can see some pattern here. I'm far from saying "eso is dying" but the game have some problems with the population right now, even with end of the year period being usually pretty low population wise, the current numbers are not something you can be optimistic about.

Losing the Covid numbers is to be expected but if you compare this time 2019 to this time 2021, ESO has still gained players overall. Which means they actually did retain a good chunk of the 2020 players. Many games are losing the temporary pandemic boom, so that's not anything to be concerned about. There's a lot of people out there that don't really game much that found themselves cooped up during the pandemic that gave many games a try, and now they are simply done playing games and are going out more. You look at 2019 and you look at now, it's retained players and even added some.

Not really as most covid lockdowns started at march 2020 and huge increase of eso population due to covid happened between april and may 2020. We are comparing numbers before covid player influx, which indicates that eso have now less players that it had before the whole lockdown party started for good. At best you can say it retained the numbers from beginning of 2020 but it isnt really a big achievement in times when wow lost more than half it playerbase and almost every mmo see an influx of wow refugees (ff xiv being the biggest beneficient of it for sure).

Let's use Steam Charts as an example...

January 2019 average player count on Steam 12408
January 2020 average player count on Steam 15416


February 2019 average player count on Steam 13429
February 2020 average player count on Steam 15738

When you compare the same time period in 2019 to the same time period in 2020, even before the pandemic, it was still higher than in 2019.

This will likely be the first year since One Tamriel where they did not increase player count every year, but that's explained by the absolutely unusual jump in players they got because of Covid. And they retained a decent number of those players.

edit:

And looks like at the last full month we have which is November 2021 and compare it ESO of years past.

November 2018 average player count on Steam 10897
November 2019 average player count on Steam 11531
November 2020 average player count on Steam 16956
November 2021 average player count on Steam 15780


As you can see the did go down this year, but they are still way above the 2019 numbers for this same time period. And also well above how many players it grew from between 2018 and 2019. Which means they managed to retain a decent portion of the surge of players that flocked to this game in 2020.

Harvokaan

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Ronin37 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

We don't need overland more difficult for everyone, especially those of us who don't want it, to make the final boss fight more difficult. That can be done just for the player who wants it with a challenge banner.

And we do not need to make public dungeons more difficult for everyone whether they like it or not, just because some players want that. There are just as many (more) who don't.

So in that case make the game a visual novel.

Or we could leave it exactly as it is, which has been very successful.

I wouldn't call the current state of the game healthy tbh.
ESO have a big problem and that is both end game pve and pvp players are leaving in masses.

If players were leaving in large amounts and not being replaced by new people, then the game wouldn't still be growing but it's grown every year since One Tamriel. It might lose players this year as those were here to play during pandemic leave, but it's actually retained a pretty large amount of those new players too and will end 2021 better than it was in 2019 in terms of player population. This indicates both that they are still getting plenty of new players despite the lack of people on Twitch, and that they are doing a good job of retaining people as well.

A large part of this is the way Overland is designed, as that's the first system most people interact with. The very first impression of the game. And that first impression currently allows for them to play the game they want and explore, and make friends of vet players that can help them grow their characters or take on more difficult challenges. They join guilds from these interactions and experience the rest of the game. And eventually they become the vet player guiding the next group of players.

The normal route is that some players leave and being replaced by new ones. PvE end game guilds were increasing they numbers till around Elsweyr, after that problem started. This year I saw a lot of problems because big amount of pvers left but new players numbers were pretty low. Vets leaving the game wouldn't be the problem if they would be replaced by fresh blood but that is not the case recently.
As for pvp it is a disaster, entire guilds left the game. As for active players numbers, based on steam statistic, twitch stats or mmo-population.com stats (biggest site of this kind) we can see that eso lost big amount of players it gained during first covid lockdown in 2020. We are at the lowest amount of active twich channels since December 2019, lowest steam average player count since march 2020, lowest active population chart from mmo-population.com since jan 2020.
This shows us not an exact number of active players as only zos have the data but we can see some pattern here. I'm far from saying "eso is dying" but the game have some problems with the population right now, even with end of the year period being usually pretty low population wise, the current numbers are not something you can be optimistic about.

Losing the Covid numbers is to be expected but if you compare this time 2019 to this time 2021, ESO has still gained players overall. Which means they actually did retain a good chunk of the 2020 players. Many games are losing the temporary pandemic boom, so that's not anything to be concerned about. There's a lot of people out there that don't really game much that found themselves cooped up during the pandemic that gave many games a try, and now they are simply done playing games and are going out more. You look at 2019 and you look at now, it's retained players and even added some.

Not really as most covid lockdowns started at march 2020 and huge increase of eso population due to covid happened between april and may 2020. We are comparing numbers before covid player influx, which indicates that eso have now less players that it had before the whole lockdown party started for good. At best you can say it retained the numbers from beginning of 2020 but it isnt really a big achievement in times when wow lost more than half it playerbase and almost every mmo see an influx of wow refugees (ff xiv being the biggest beneficient of it for sure).

Let's use Steam Charts as an example...

January 2019 average player count on Steam 12408
January 2020 average player count on Steam 15416


February 2019 average player count on Steam 13429
February 2020 average player count on Steam 15738

When you compare the same time period in 2019 to the same time period in 2020, even before the pandemic became a bigger deal, it was still higher than in 2019.

This will likely be the first year since One Tamriel where they did not increase player count every year, but that's explaining by the absolutely unusual jump in players they got because of Covid. And they retained a decent number of those players.

Thats why im not saying "eso is dying" [snip]. I just point that there is a problem with population and player retention and that the numbers are not great when you look at the bigger picture. Maybe it will change if zos announce some crazy new stuff for 2022 but for now the trend is worrying. I started the discussion about these numbers to higlight that the situation isn't that good and some changes to the formula might be desired (as oposite to some ppl here stating that everything is perfect the way it is right now and nothing needs to be changed.

SilverBride wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

I wouldn't call the current state of the game healthy tbh.
ESO have a big problem and that is both end game pve and pvp players are leaving in masses.

There is no proof of this.

Rich Lambert said a few months ago that the game is doing better now than it ever has. I trust his word.

I dare you, mention one example of game director stating "ah yes, our game is doing much worse then we expected" about the product that is still supported and should generate the money for the company (and not being abandoned). Dare you. In this business you brag about your success (no matter if your product is successful or not) or remain silent. [snip]

[edited for bashing & baiting]

Vulkunne

SilverBride wrote: »

Harvokaan wrote: »

I wouldn't call the current state of the game healthy tbh.
ESO have a big problem and that is both end game pve and pvp players are leaving in masses.

There is no proof of this.

Rich Lambert said a few months ago that the game is doing better now than it ever has. I trust his word.

This feels like a red herring.

What many are asking for is an optional change. The game changes over time in many ways, as you know, we get new patch notes every couple of months with changes.

Just because anyone perceives the game is doing well doesn't mean there is no room for change. By your logic, if the game is doing so well... then we don't require any new changes right?

I mean its doing so well, why would we make changes and yet of course changes will be made. We will not accept anyone's opinion as a substitute for facts.

And the fact is many are still asking for change regardless of anyone's opinion. Its the opinion of the many that matters. It can be ignored as much as desired but that doesn't mean it stops existing.

spartaxoxo

Harvokaan wrote: »

Thats why im not saying "eso is dying" [snip]. I just point that there is a problem with population and player retention and that the numbers are not great when you look at the bigger picture. Maybe it will change if zos announce some crazy new stuff for 2022 but for now the trend is worrying. I started the discussion about these numbers to higlight that the situation isn't that good and some changes to the formula might be desired (as oposite to some ppl here stating that everything is perfect the way it is right now and nothing needs to be changed.

But the numbers aren't worrying though. That's the thing. The assertion that there is a worrying trend isn't supported by the numbers. They expected to lose a good chunk of the growth in 2020 as lockdowns eased, and that's exactly what happened. But they also retained a good portion of those players.

They gained 5425 average players on Steam during November of 2020 and lost 1176 of them this year, but they also kept 4249 of them. That's roughly 78% of the players from this time last year. That's a very good retention given the global circumstances.

This is why they call themselves more successful than ever. Because they have had very good growth. They gained players every single year since One Tamriel, then the pandemic happened and they had a temporary but massive surge, and managed to retain a lot of those players.

This isn't to say they should do nothing, but from a success standpoint the formula they have has been extremely successful, so it's small wonder they are hesitant to mess with it. Players were saying this same thing back during Summerset, which is why they addressed in an promotional interview for Elsweyr, and then Elsweyr proceeded to do better than Summerset, no pandemic involved.

[edited to remove quote]

SilverBride

Vulkunne wrote: »

Its the opinion of the many that matters.

Everyone's opinion matters, and everyone has a right to their opinion.

However, according to Rich the a huge majority doesn't want difficulty with the story.