Overland Content Feedback Thread

SilverBride

Elsonso wrote: »

Maybe it is time to return to "adventure zones" delivered as the zone DLC or chapter.

Craglorn was originally an adventure zone but it failed badly and had to have its difficulty turned way down. It's still more difficult than the other zones and very few players are actually questing or grouping up there. It's turned into a farming and group forming zone. I very seriously doubt another adventure zone would do any better.

Elsonso

SilverBride wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Maybe it is time to return to "adventure zones" delivered as the zone DLC or chapter.

Craglorn was originally an adventure zone but it failed badly and had to have its difficulty turned way down. It's still more difficult than the other zones and very few players are actually questing or grouping up there. It's turned into a farming and group forming zone. I very seriously doubt another adventure zone would do any better.

Yeah, I know, but that was 10 years ago. I have to think that after all this time, ZOS could do better than Craglorn. It could give players the "veteran overland" without the expense of going through all gazillion existing zones and reworking them. Edit: They used to do entire DLC with just two dungeons in them twice per year. Certainly, they can do one DLC with the equivalent of 4 dungeons presented as one large zone. Right?

Anyway, that is why I put it in quotes. I don't mean the old Craglorn.

SilverBride

Muizer wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

When we give feedback we don't get to say how it will be responded to and we are not guaranteed that any solution will be how we envisioned it.

This thread is about overland. That means questing and, above all, exploration. Fans of the series expect Tamriel to be a dangerous place once you leave the roads. In ESO, Tamriel is a caricature of a dangerous place. That is what this thread is about. That is what I think most posters here want ZOS to address and in a way that feels true to that ES experience.

The Elder Scrolls series was single player games. Players had options for adjusting difficulty etc. and only had to consider what they personally wanted out of it.

ESO is a multi player game and not all those playing it had played the original single player series, so not everyone has those same expectations. ESO has a casual questing experience so all players can do it. I don't forsee that changing.

VilkasKriegshammer

ESO Questing Challenge

I just wanted to share this with the community that is looking to make the overland content a challenge whether solo or with friends. I agree it's sad to have to go to these lengths to make the content difficult but this is where we are. Imposing these rules on myself has breathed fresh air into the overland content for me. Feel free to adjust to suit your own needs. If you don't want to handicap your main to this extent, try it on an alt!

Objective: Create a more difficult questing experience by minimizing health and reducing damage while maintaining Magicka/Stamina pools.

Rules:

Champion Points: None allowed.

Companions: None allowed.

Armor: None allowed.

Jewelry: Can be any quality but can only have Magicka/Stamina perks.

Weapons: White-quality weapons only and with no healing enchantments. Damage enchantments are allowed.

Skills: Use only damage and crowd control skills. No skills that grant buffs, heal, or provide shields. Debuffs allowed. Only crafting passives allowed; no other passive skills.

Attributes: No points in health; only Stamina and Magicka allowed.

Potions: Use only crafted, foraged, or vendor-bought potions. Potions are the ONLY healing source allowed.

Food/Drink: No health food/drink allowed; use only Magicka/Stamina food/drink.

Guild Traders: Buying is prohibited; selling is allowed.

Enjoy!

BasP

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm not saying players shouldn't make suggestions. But when there are repeated complaints that the story bosses die too fast and they die before they complete their dialogue etc... well now they don't.

That doesn't change the fact that story bosses are still incredibly easy, though, so I'd say that it's worth repeating that an option to make fights like that more memorable (with the aforementioned difficulty sliders, hard mode scrolls etc.) would be a great addition to the game.

And it's not like only "ESO veterans" would appreciate a more difficult Overland. Posts by new players about the lack of difficulty pop up pretty regularly on ESO's subreddit too.

Maitsukas

Yesterday evening, I completed the Necrom+Gold Road storyline with my personal Questing/Companion Leveling build and the final 2 boss fights took quite a while to defeat:

The build in detail:

This is something I use if I want a proper challenge in the Zone Stories.

SilverBride

BasP wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm not saying players shouldn't make suggestions. But when there are repeated complaints that the story bosses die too fast and they die before they complete their dialogue etc... well now they don't.

That doesn't change the fact that story bosses are still incredibly easy, though, so I'd say that it's worth repeating that an option to make fights like that more memorable (with the aforementioned difficulty sliders, hard mode scrolls etc.) would be a great addition to the game.

And it's not like only "ESO veterans" would appreciate a more difficult Overland. Posts by new players about the lack of difficulty pop up pretty regularly on ESO's subreddit too.

I don't find the story bosses incredibly easy on all of my characters. For some they are more difficult and take longer, depending on my build.

I see posts stating that they think overland is too easy, mostly by players that have stopped playing or just started and expected a more Dark Souls like experience. That isn't what ESO is and therefore it's not the game for everyone. But it is the game for most of us that have been playing for years now.

But I never hear players say anything about the difficulty while I'm in game questing overland. At least I hadn't until a couple of weeks ago. I was questing West Weald and a player whose name I recognized from this thread started complaining in zone chat. They were saying things like "I just came back to the game and bought Gold Road and it's so boring." No one replied. Then "Does anyone else find this too easy and boring?" Once again no one replied. After about 5 minutes of this they finally stopped. The lack of response by the zone was very telling about what the general consensus is.

Muizer

SilverBride wrote: »

ESO is a multi player game and not all those playing it had played the original single player series, so not everyone has those same expectations.

The release of Skyrim actually had a big impact on the development of ESO. The developers went back to the drawing board on a lot of aspects of the game to bring them closer to the Skyrim experience. That is pretty hard evidence the ES players were part of the target audience, and not just for the lore or artistic veneer.

SilverBride wrote: »

ESO has a casual questing experience so all players can do it.

Evidently

SilverBride wrote: »

I don't forsee that changing.

Well we're getting mixed signals. On the one hand, we know the Devs seem to acknowledge we exist as a demographic. On the other the features they supposedly develop to address that demographic keep missing the mark by the proverbial mile. If nothing else, it would be nice to clear up where this perplexing discrepancy is coming from.

SilverBride

Muizer wrote: »

Well we're getting mixed signals. On the one hand, we know the Devs seem to acknowledge we exist as a demographic. On the other the features they supposedly develop to address that demographic keep missing the mark by the proverbial mile. If nothing else, it would be nice to clear up where this perplexing discrepancy is coming from.

I think they are doing what they can to bring more challenges into overland without making the story too difficult for everyone else. World Bosses are part of overland and their difficulty has increased to a point that many of us don't even bother with them any more. Story bosses now have invulnerable phases and are much longer fights. Both of these things could be seen as solutions for what players asked for... more difficulty in overland and more difficulty with story bosses. I don't see a discrepancy here.

Bastion Nymics may not be what players expected but they are an additional challenging experience that is part of overland.

disky

SilverBride wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

Well we're getting mixed signals. On the one hand, we know the Devs seem to acknowledge we exist as a demographic. On the other the features they supposedly develop to address that demographic keep missing the mark by the proverbial mile. If nothing else, it would be nice to clear up where this perplexing discrepancy is coming from.

I think they are doing what they can to bring more challenges into overland without making the story too difficult for everyone else. World Bosses are part of overland and their difficulty has increased to a point that many of us don't even bother with them any more. Story bosses now have invulnerable phases and are much longer fights. Both of these things could be seen as solutions for what players asked for... more difficulty in overland and more difficulty with story bosses. I don't see a discrepancy here.

Bastion Nymics may not be what players expected but they are an additional challenging experience that is part of overland.

Not what they can, what they choose to do. There is a clear solution to this issue and it isn't being implemented.

SilverBride

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

Well we're getting mixed signals. On the one hand, we know the Devs seem to acknowledge we exist as a demographic. On the other the features they supposedly develop to address that demographic keep missing the mark by the proverbial mile. If nothing else, it would be nice to clear up where this perplexing discrepancy is coming from.

I think they are doing what they can to bring more challenges into overland without making the story too difficult for everyone else. World Bosses are part of overland and their difficulty has increased to a point that many of us don't even bother with them any more. Story bosses now have invulnerable phases and are much longer fights. Both of these things could be seen as solutions for what players asked for... more difficulty in overland and more difficulty with story bosses. I don't see a discrepancy here.

Bastion Nymics may not be what players expected but they are an additional challenging experience that is part of overland.

Not what they can, what they choose to do. There is a clear solution to this issue and it isn't being implemented.

Of course they choose how to address player concerns and they have done things to address the specific complaints that have been brought in this thread. But there has to be enough players that would utilize other features to justify the valuable time and resources it would take to implement them. I very seriously doubt many players at all would use a debuff to quest overland, and players already have the options of wearing white quality gear and no CP and no points in skills to adjust their own experience without negatively affecting others. With the armory station they could easily save a build specifically for questing.

I wish they would either create a debuff food, or a mythic item, or something along those lines, or state that this will not happen, then lock this almost 3 year old thread, because it's become very tiring to have to constantly defend the questing experience I love from any further negative changes.

Muizer

SilverBride wrote: »

it's become very tiring to have to constantly defend the questing experience I love from any further negative changes.

Eh, it's not as if ZOS will implement some suggestion from this thread the moment you stop arguing against it. In that sense you can no more defend that experience than anyone else here can change it. It's up to ZOS.

SilverBride

Muizer wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

it's become very tiring to have to constantly defend the questing experience I love from any further negative changes.

Eh, it's not as if ZOS will implement some suggestion from this thread the moment you stop arguing against it. In that sense you can no more defend that experience than anyone else here can change it. It's up to ZOS.

Of course it's up to ZoS but I still feel the need to give my feedback as long as I see suggestions that I find harmful to the experience many of us have enjoyed for the past 8 years since One Tamriel.

What is the point of a 3 year old thread if it doesn't bring some kind of resolution? Why keep the discussion going if nothing more is to be done? Why not just say "This is the final answer.... *final answer*.... and we are closing this thread now." and put it to rest? It has long passed any sense of productive discussion and only serves to keep players stirred up.

Muizer

SilverBride wrote: »

What is the point of a 3 year old thread if it doesn't bring some kind of resolution? Why keep the discussion going if nothing more is to be done? Why not just say "This is the final answer.... *final answer*.... and we are closing this thread now." and put it to rest? It has long passed any sense of productive discussion and only serves to keep players stirred up.

ZOS very rarely say they are definitely not going to do something. The closest we get tends to be " we have no plans". What would this place and the community in general be if ZOS were to shut down every discussion that concerned something for which they have no plans? The only thing that can be inferred from this thread still being open is that the people running the forum expect overland difficulty to remain a topic of enduring interest in the community. No more, no less.

SilverBride

Muizer wrote: »

The only thing that can be inferred from this thread still being open is that the people running the forum expect overland difficulty to remain a topic of enduring interest in the community. No more, no less.

This thread was originally started to address a problem and keep all these posts in one place. There was never any indication that it was started because anyone thought it was a topic of enduring interest or because there were plans to change overland. In fact they have stated a few times now that there are no plans for any major changes to overland. And a recent interview with Rich quoted him as saying those looking for a challenge are directed to dungeons.

Three years of the same handful of players posting has left nothing new to add, and there just comes a time to give an answer to what they will or won't do and put it to rest.

And of course they always have the option to change things down the road if they choose.

spartaxoxo

This thread was created because they expected it to be a topic of enduring interest and they wanted to ensure that it didn't continuously disrupt others experiences.

They have also addressed it in interviews on multiple occasions.

They have also created things like Bastian Nymic to address it. It's a tone deaf solution but it's a solution that nevertheless required resources and time.

It is very clear that even though we're in the minority, we are a sizable one. It might only be a few players in this thread still, due it's age and lack of response. But this request is also all over social media.

They scrapped the Q4 DLC for Infinite Archive. It's clear that they want to address the issue. They just won't address it in a way that makes sense because they do not understand. They have never shown understanding of the debuff suggestion. They have never shown understanding of the core problem all these solutions these complaints are about. They think it's just combat. It's not.

Elsonso

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This thread was created because they expected it to be a topic of enduring interest and they wanted to ensure that it didn't continuously disrupt others experiences.

They have also addressed it in interviews on multiple occasions.

They have also created things like Bastian Nymic to address it. It's a tone deaf solution but it's a solution that nevertheless required resources and time.

It is very clear that even though we're in the minority, we are a sizable one. It might only be a few players in this thread still, due it's age and lack of response. But this request is also all over social media.

They scrapped the Q4 DLC for Infinite Archive. It's clear that they want to address the issue. They just won't address it in a way that makes sense because they do not understand. They have never shown understanding of the debuff suggestion. They have never shown understanding of the core problem all these solutions these complaints are about. They think it's just combat. It's not.

I think they do understand, though.

CP5

I noticed this thread was keeping on page 1 a lot and wanted to see what was being talked about most recently. Because no one asked for it I'll give my take on things.

SilverBride wrote: »

I find the overland content meaningful just as it is. It's the story, not dying to a pack of wolves, that makes it meaningful to me.

They gave us Bastion Nymics as one answer to overland difficulty, so they are hearing the feedback. However they have said that some players still find overland difficult, and that it needs to be easy enough so that everyone can do it.

World Bosses, Dungeon Bosses, Trial Bosses, etc. now have immune phases. There have been a lot of complaints over these because prolonged fights are not what most players want.

I am not opposed if they want to give players a debuff in one form or another, but I don't know if there is really that much interest in it.

[Edited to consolidate and clarify]

Going in order of these points. I, as a player, remember meaningful events. When I was playing Xcom I remember the time one of my soldiers panicked and lobbed a grenade at one of their allies, causing them to fall from a 2-story building (but surviving). I remember during my first play through of Skyrim when I was walking along the road and got jumped by two saber cats and used the werewolf backhand to send them rolling down the hill. I even remember my fight against the Brothers of Strife, since the boss healed after given amounts of time I needed to think of a plan to overcome that healing. Those moments are what I love, things I remember. I don't remember 'generic villain X getting macguffin Y to end the world in way Z' but in the end all that was needed was a rotten tuna to the face to put them down. If even world ending threats aren't worth my time to look at the screen I won't remember the moment, and if the moment isn't worth remembering then it's empty calories I'd rather not waste my time on. It is good to know why you play a game and cater your expectations around it, and I agree, getting killed by generic animals when you've killed dragons feels bad, but at least a world ending god is worth a moment's concern?

I, as a player, want to feel engaged both through the quest but also in exploring the world. Dragons Dogma 2 did this for me beautifully, since around any corner could be a combat encounter or stretch of hazardous terrain that, for me, forces me to pay attention. I like the physical puzzle element, when in combat your skills and actions are the solution to the combat encounter, and for dangerous environments the same applies. In Dragon's Dogma 2 there is one area where you're on a high cliff with dozens of harpies. On a good day you'll likely fall to your death here given how narrow the cliffs are, but then add in the harpies and you get another memorable area. I don't get anything like that from ESO in part because something that extreme isn't expected, but even in the Deadlands I don't even look at my screen. I point myself in the direction I want to go then look at my other monitor and just turn my character if I notice they run into a wall. I want to explore the world and feel engaged, giving me corners to sulk in doesn't address that desire.

Immunity phases are dull, I'll be honest. It's like the gargoyle boss in Moongrave Fane. You poke him for 5s, he becomes invulnerable for what, 15s? Then you poke him for 5s more and right back into invulnerability. Extending the duration of boring fights doesn't make them memorable, just annoying. That's why "just don't use gear/skills" isn't a solution. I want to solve puzzles, and to do that I want to use the tools I found during my time playing to solve them in creative ways. The 'solution' being to wait isn't engaging.

Muizer wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

When we give feedback we don't get to say how it will be responded to and we are not guaranteed that any solution will be how we envisioned it.

This thread is about overland. That means questing and, above all, exploration. Fans of the series expect Tamriel to be a dangerous place once you leave the roads. In ESO, Tamriel is a caricature of a dangerous place. That is what this thread is about. That is what I think most posters here want ZOS to address and in a way that feels true to that ES experience.

This exactly. I'm an obsessed modder, with too many mods installed to count. For Skyrim I made it, so I had to do things like keep warm, which encouraged situations where I had to make choices, doing things like venturing out in a blizzard to reach Winterhold or seek shelter in a troll infested cave. Those moments make the game more engaging, but overland being presented so widely at one uniform level, that of 'players here could be fresh out of the tutorial' leaves no room for nuance in the design of the world or encounters. Normally a games world evolves as you progress through it, but if every zone could be someone's first, no zone can be too complex or demanding.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Okay, now that the address issue is stated. I want to say that while the developers have addressed the issue, their answers have been completely tone deaf.

They haven't addressed any of the concerns that vet players are complaining about. And instead did the one thing that we asked them not to do which was make a solution that makes stuff harder for everyone. The result is that casuals have less stuff to do because the world bosses and the like are annoying for them now. But, none of the vet player concerns were heard, so they still have no reason to go overland.

We didn't want immunity phase on world boss fights? We didn't want an endless arena or a glorified extra dungeon. We wanted a compelling story that actually gives us a reason to use the overland. World bosses and the like don't satisfy that.

I've done some of the Gold Road world bosses, and while I will say I enjoyed the show, the constant immunity phases made them tedious more than anything. It's one thing to make a boss hit hard, requiring you to respect which attacks it can throw out at you, and it's another thing to do what they did here, add spam with long phases where you can't hit the boss. I like chaos, but I know for a fact that the percentage of players who dislike fights that are that excessive is likely in the 90%+ range. Thinking of that strange mirror monster boss in that cave.

SilverBride wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm not saying players shouldn't make suggestions. But when there are repeated complaints that the story bosses die too fast and they die before they complete their dialogue etc... well now they don't.

That doesn't change the fact that story bosses are still incredibly easy, though, so I'd say that it's worth repeating that an option to make fights like that more memorable (with the aforementioned difficulty sliders, hard mode scrolls etc.) would be a great addition to the game.

And it's not like only "ESO veterans" would appreciate a more difficult Overland. Posts by new players about the lack of difficulty pop up pretty regularly on ESO's subreddit too.

I don't find the story bosses incredibly easy on all of my characters. For some they are more difficult and take longer, depending on my build.

I see posts stating that they think overland is too easy, mostly by players that have stopped playing or just started and expected a more Dark Souls like experience. That isn't what ESO is and therefore it's not the game for everyone. But it is the game for most of us that have been playing for years now.

But I never hear players say anything about the difficulty while I'm in game questing overland. At least I hadn't until a couple of weeks ago. I was questing West Weald and a player whose name I recognized from this thread started complaining in zone chat. They were saying things like "I just came back to the game and bought Gold Road and it's so boring." No one replied. Then "Does anyone else find this too easy and boring?" Once again no one replied. After about 5 minutes of this they finally stopped. The lack of response by the zone was very telling about what the general consensus is.

You are in an environment where the people who are most likely to be there are those who are most content. I don't touch ESO outside of weekend dungeon runs with friends because the world is that disinteresting to me. On top of that, most of those casual players are likely just questing solo, not paying attention to zone chat. I had zone chat covered during the beta because of a pop-up window I couldn't move, and my experience was fine, so I doubt they noticed anything. So taking a group of players who don't likely read zone chat, combined with that population of players being the target audience who enjoy or are otherwise content with the state of overland content is guaranteed to give you a skewed view of how the content is.

So I am glad you know the content you enjoy, and you surround yourself with like-minded players, both intentionally in guilds and friends, but also by participating in content that similar players engage in, but please remember that just because you enjoy it as is and everyone you spend time with in game says the same doesn't mean it's a general consensus, more like survivorship bias to me.

TaSheen

*shrug* The bottom line is - it's their game. What they don't seem to understand (or perhaps think is very important - which personally I consider EXTREMELY shortsighted) is that if they do nothing to actually address the very logical, probably reasonably doable options brought up over and over again all through this thread, eventually anyone not happy with the status quo will quit playing the game. At the very LEAST, a difficulty slider needs to be implemented. That way, y'all could have your Elden Ring style hard mode, and I could quite happily exist in the game I've enjoyed for 7 years.

Now, the only reason I can see for that sort of "blinkered" reaction is that they do know the numbers, and the numbers are not in the favor of making major changes. Unfortunately.... the changes they have made in the DLC overland difficulty in the last couple of DLCs has made life quite a bit more difficult for me (the only person I'm at all capable of talking for) in that while overland exploring was not quite a walk in the park prior it was doable for me without much worry (yes, I died sometimes when mobs seemed to gang up on me, but that wasn't frequent). But now, I can't really just explore (which is how I have fun) without thinking about what's going to jump out from behind a rock. Of course this is as much because I don't know the last couple of DLCs as I do the older ones - but the thing is, I'm also not inclined to spend the amount of time in the last couple as I have in all the rest (so I won't get to know them as well - meaning where the mobs are, how many I'm likely to run into, how hard they will be to kill etc).

I play games like this for relaxation, for exploring the world - not for killing my way across zones. I understand from friends that the story bosses are quite a bit harder than the one in High Isle - that I did finally get past about the 7th or 8th time (and it wasn't worth the anguish, after all....) I haven't tried any since then. So no story questing for me any more.... and that was one of the things I most loved about the game.

But it IS their game. So I will play what I can, and I will hopefully live long enough to play TES VI. If not, and if this game continues to fail where I have been happiest, I'll just go back to Oblivion and Skyrim. I'm only one player, so I'm just not very important in the overall scheme of things.

disky

SilverBride wrote: »

it's become very tiring to have to constantly defend the questing experience I love from any further negative changes.

But when you do this you act as if the people in the discussion are trying to take something away from you when we aren't. Sure there are people who want to change overland for everyone, we've both seen it. But I don't think anyone in this discussion right now has any interest in that. On the previous page I said that explicitly. I strongly believe that most people who want change would be perfectly happy with an equitable solution that satisfies everyone, and we know it exists, so I don't think there's much of a reason to exhaust yourself over it because we largely agree on what needs to be done.

disky

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They think it's just combat. It's not.

Exactly. It's about a satisfying experience. It seems like the detractors in this thread and devs alike feel like we just want to fight the toughest possible fights we can for the sake of it because we're a bunch of masochists, when what's really going on is that the game just doesn't feel good to play for anyone who believes that stakes and challenge are part and parcel with immersion in an action-adventure game.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This thread was created because they expected it to be a topic of enduring interest and they wanted to ensure that it didn't continuously disrupt others experiences.

This thread was created to stop new threads from popping up, devolving and being locked only to have another appear a week later, usually started by the same handful of posters. Rather than shut down the conversation they made this thread to keep it in one place and stop the chain of thread after thread in the general forum.

disky

CP5 wrote: »

but please remember that just because you enjoy it as is and everyone you spend time with in game says the same doesn't mean it's a general consensus, more like survivorship bias to me.

Well said. The people who stay are the people who are completely fine with the game as it is.

spartaxoxo

Elsonso wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This thread was created because they expected it to be a topic of enduring interest and they wanted to ensure that it didn't continuously disrupt others experiences.

They have also addressed it in interviews on multiple occasions.

They have also created things like Bastian Nymic to address it. It's a tone deaf solution but it's a solution that nevertheless required resources and time.

It is very clear that even though we're in the minority, we are a sizable one. It might only be a few players in this thread still, due it's age and lack of response. But this request is also all over social media.

They scrapped the Q4 DLC for Infinite Archive. It's clear that they want to address the issue. They just won't address it in a way that makes sense because they do not understand. They have never shown understanding of the debuff suggestion. They have never shown understanding of the core problem all these solutions these complaints are about. They think it's just combat. It's not.

I think they do understand, though.

Their answer to a toggle that didn't separate players was "it's not as easy as flipping a switch, our devs work hard." Paraphrased.

That does not demonstrate understanding.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

This thread was created because they expected it to be a topic of enduring interest and they wanted to ensure that it didn't continuously disrupt others experiences.

This thread was created to stop new threads from popping up, devolving and being locked only to have another appear a week later, usually started by the same handful of posters. Rather than shut down the conversation they made this thread to keep it in one place and stop the chain of thread after thread in the general forum.

Yes. They expected new ones to keep popping up because they knew this was a topic of continuous interest. If there was no interest, there would no expectations that it would keep popping up. It is a frequently asked question dumping ground

SilverBride

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

it's become very tiring to have to constantly defend the questing experience I love from any further negative changes.

But when you do this you act as if the people in the discussion are trying to take something away from you when we aren't. Sure there are people who want to change overland for everyone, we've both seen it. But I don't think anyone in this discussion right now has any interest in that. One the previous page I said that explicitly. I strongly believe that most people who want change would be perfectly happy with an equitable solution that satisfies everyone, and we know it exists, so I don't think there's much of a reason to exhaust yourself over it because we largely agree on what needs to be done.

I don't think anyone wants to take anything away from others or has any ill intentions. But the truth of the matter is that the things like more difficult bosses with invulnerable phases has taken things away from those of us who now find these too difficult and can no longer enjoy them. And I wonder if complaints about bosses dying too fast led to this.

We can all agree that things aren't always addressed the way we wish, and I don't want anything else rendered undoable for me because of changes to appease those wanting a difficult overland experience.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

it's become very tiring to have to constantly defend the questing experience I love from any further negative changes.

But when you do this you act as if the people in the discussion are trying to take something away from you when we aren't. Sure there are people who want to change overland for everyone, we've both seen it. But I don't think anyone in this discussion right now has any interest in that. One the previous page I said that explicitly. I strongly believe that most people who want change would be perfectly happy with an equitable solution that satisfies everyone, and we know it exists, so I don't think there's much of a reason to exhaust yourself over it because we largely agree on what needs to be done.

I don't think anyone wants to take anything away from others or has any ill intentions. But the truth of the matter is that the things like more difficult bosses with invulnerable phases has taken things away from those of us who now find these too difficult and can no longer enjoy them. And I wonder if complaints about bosses dying too fast led to this.

We can all agree that things aren't always addressed the way we wish, and I don't want anything else rendered undoable for me because of changes to appease those wanting a difficult overland experience.

So, why not ask for them to give us what we actually asked for instead rather than doing their own thing. Because that's a direct result of them doing what they think is best instead of just giving us the toggle we've been asking for.

We warned them that increasing it for everyone was a bad idea. And they didn't listen. And now we have casual players leaving the game after a new chapter faster than ever, and since they didn't actually address any vet player concerns, those people aren't using it either. The result is dead content

That's not on us.

disky

SilverBride wrote: »

disky wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

it's become very tiring to have to constantly defend the questing experience I love from any further negative changes.

But when you do this you act as if the people in the discussion are trying to take something away from you when we aren't. Sure there are people who want to change overland for everyone, we've both seen it. But I don't think anyone in this discussion right now has any interest in that. One the previous page I said that explicitly. I strongly believe that most people who want change would be perfectly happy with an equitable solution that satisfies everyone, and we know it exists, so I don't think there's much of a reason to exhaust yourself over it because we largely agree on what needs to be done.

I don't think anyone wants to take anything away from others or has any ill intentions. But the truth of the matter is that the things like more difficult bosses with invulnerable phases has taken things away from those of us who now find these too difficult and can no longer enjoy them. And I wonder if complaints about bosses dying too fast led to this.

We can all agree that things aren't always addressed the way we wish, and I don't want anything else rendered undoable for me because of changes to appease those wanting a difficult overland experience.

Right, so they're changing difficulty on a per-zone basis rather than standardizing challenge across all zones and giving players the option to increase challenge as they see fit, which would prevent people like you from having anything to complain about. With an optional change this would never be an issue. We would still all have to deal with the same mechanics (which is fine and good) but those who don't want it wouldn't necessarily have to overcome the same degree of challenge as those who do.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

So, why not ask for them to give us what we actually asked for instead rather than doing their own thing. Because that's a direct result of them doing what they think is best instead of just giving us the toggle we've been asking for.

The toggle wasn't brought up until later in the thread. The first requests were for a separate veteran overland. It wasn't until later that other solutions that only affect the player using them became the most supported options.

But there have been multiple posts about how boring overland is and how story bosses died too fast and couldn't even finish their dialogue. They read all those, too.

And even though I would never use any of the options I have supported sliders and debuffs and other such solutions that only affect the player using them. But instead now World Bosses and Public Dungeon group events were increased in difficulty and length for everyone.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

So, why not ask for them to give us what we actually asked for instead rather than doing their own thing. Because that's a direct result of them doing what they think is best instead of just giving us the toggle we've been asking for.

The toggle wasn't brought up until later in the thread. The first requests were for a separate veteran overland. It wasn't until later that other solutions that only affect the player using them became the most supported options.

But there have been multiple posts about how boring overland is and how story bosses died too fast and couldn't even finish their dialogue. They read all those, too.

And even though I would never use any of the options I have supported sliders and debuffs and other such solutions that only affect the player using them. But instead now World Bosses and Public Dungeon group events were increased in difficulty and length for everyone.

It's been 3 years since this thread got created. The first posts aren't even relevant anymore. Gold Road and Infinite Archive is likely more to do with posts made around then rather something that old.

And the devs have made new comments since back then and they still don't demonstrate understanding. They're addressing the issue the way they want to address it, not how the feedback here requests.

People weren't asking for more arenas or harder world bosses for the most part. They asked for a way to make the story more engaging in a way that didn't impact people who liked it the way it is. The thread as a whole has argued a lot about what that should look like. But the core complaint "we should be able to engage with the story in a way that is more interesting for us that doesn't affect others" has remained consistent the entire time.