Overland Content Feedback Thread

casparian

Chadak is right, in that ZOS is 100% never going to implement any real overland difficulty overhaul and they created this thread so they could have an excuse to quit allowing threads about it.

But I do want to take issue with one thing:

Quoted post has been removed.

This isn't the right way to put it. Our expectation is just that a wide variety of players should be able to play the lion's share of the game's content (overland PVE and delves) with the immersion and customizability that has always been definitive of the TES series. For many, many of us, that means (and has always meant in every TES game) high-quality worldbuilding and exploration, great lore, memorable characters, and a combat experience that we can tune to our preferences. It has always been that way in every TES game, at least since Morrowind when I started playing. Of course multiplayer TES isn't going to be like single-player TES in every aspect. But to blame players for asking for things we have always counted on in other TES games to be reflected in some way in ESO is to misplace blame IMO.

Agreed that ZOS won't devote resources to this and that the topic is moot. But that's ZOS' problem, not ours, and a big part of the reason why I and players like me just can't find it in ourselves to keep going with the game or spend money on it.

SilverBride

For every player who doesn't keep going or spend money on ESO there are many more who still do and who would stop if overland was made more difficult.

Players come and go for various reasons in MMOs. It's highly unlikely that there will be a mass exodus of players leaving now because they find overland too easy when it's been this way for the past 6 years.

Parasaurolophus

SilverBride wrote: »

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

LashanW wrote: »

Some people think if we are not happy with current visual novel difficulty, we must be asking for dark souls difficulty.

We don't know what to think because there is no clear or agreed upon difficulty suggested, or which parts of overland would be affected.

If they make a completely separate veteran overland where even trash mobs are veteran level then some will say we only wanted delve and world bosses and quest bosses to be more difficult. But if they do it that way the ones wanting everything more difficult won't be happy. And whichever way they do it there will be some who want it even more difficult and some who want it less.

I'd be very cautious asking for any major change without spelling it out in detail. Remember account wide achievements...

You again throws from one extreme to another. There are many options for how to reach a consensus.

There has been no consensus presented.

Some agree to debuffs and challenge banners, some only want a completely separate veteran instance, some want instanced delves, some want overland more difficult for everyone, and just how difficult is still up in the air.

If no consensus is reached this debate will never be resolved, because even if they implement any of these suggestions some players will still not be satisfied.

[edited to elaborate]

To create a solution that would suit the majority of players is the task of the developers, not the players. The players here only argue and offer variations and opportunities to somehow improve the overland content. No more.
Remember, for example, the complaints of players about the chances of a drop for weapons. A lot of players offered all sorts of tokens and other options. And I've never seen anyone offer a system of a whole collection of crafting sets like they do now. Is this the system that was asked so much here? No. Is someone complaining? No.
You can remember AwA. But here the players fell victim to technical limitations.
After all, this is a feedback thread. Here people share their opinions about why they like/dislike overland and questing and talk about some possible solutions. We have already collected 100 pages. One 90% of this is just an attempt to defend your own opinion in front of several people.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

For every player who doesn't keep going or spend money on ESO there are many more who still do and who would stop if overland was made more difficult.

Nobody would quit if it was optional.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

For every player who doesn't keep going or spend money on ESO there are many more who still do and who would stop if overland was made more difficult.

Nobody would quit if it was optional.

They might because of the negative impact of the split player base. Then there is also the increased elitism that would spring from this.

CP5

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

For every player who doesn't keep going or spend money on ESO there are many more who still do and who would stop if overland was made more difficult.

Nobody would quit if it was optional.

They might because of the negative impact of the split player base. Then there is also the increased elitism that would spring from this.

"Split player base," when those most likely to use this system are already 'split' into their group instances or not logged in at all. And increased elitism? When experienced players are put in a box with more casual players and wipe the floor with everything, ruining the experience for others by clearing major legs of quest areas leaving the casual player with nothing to do but walk from point A to B, that builds resentment. When an experienced player tries to be helpful and offer advice, they're called out for being an elitist and lording their way of playing over others.

Neither of those points hold weight because both are happening, and forcing overland to offer only one experience type while every other piece of content in the game offers choice, and thus is able to entertain more types of players in the process, that is causing people to leave the game. I understand you surround yourself with players like you, I do as well, but while your group sees everything as fine, I have been seeing my own withering away over the years as people leave and just decide to not come back.

I know you genuinely care about the game, but if you care about it lasting as long as it can you shouldn't be writing it off when people leave the game as "oh, there'll be plenty of people left," because as each culture group in the game has their issues ignored more and more people will either leave or never come in the first place. The game can provide options, for those you don't even interact with as is, what harm is there in those you never see enjoying the game in a place you can choose to never go?

SilverBride

@CP5 We will never agree so let's just agree to disagree.

spartaxoxo

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

For every player who doesn't keep going or spend money on ESO there are many more who still do and who would stop if overland was made more difficult.

Nobody would quit if it was optional.

They might because of the negative impact of the split player base. Then there is also the increased elitism that would spring from this.

That depends a lot on how they implement an optional increase of difficulty. And I don't think anyone would quit because of elitism.

They could use debuff slider ala LOTRO to ensure players aren't split, for example.

SilverBride

spartaxoxo wrote: »

They could use debuff slider ala LOTRO to ensure players aren't split, for example.

I've always agreed with a debuff for the player because it won't affect anyone but that player. But I will never agree to a separate veteran overland instance.

Foxtrot39

Need more incentive to NOT use wayshrine and walk around the map dev worked to make other than POI or ressource farming, more random event as example, make the area more than just a place to have hostile mob or the occasional merchant walking down the same road

spartaxoxo

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

Need more incentive to NOT use wayshrine and walk around the map dev worked to make other than POI or ressource farming, more random event as example, make the area more than just a place to have hostile mob or the occasional merchant walking down the same road

I wish we could turn off all UI elements, even the compass. It wouldn't just make exploration more interesting and puzzle-y, it would let you actually use emotes during screenshots too.

Parasaurolophus

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

Need more incentive to NOT use wayshrine and walk around the map dev worked to make other than POI or ressource farming, more random event as example, make the area more than just a place to have hostile mob or the occasional merchant walking down the same road

I wish we could turn off all UI elements, even the compass. It wouldn't just make exploration more interesting and puzzle-y, it would let you actually use emotes during screenshots too.

You can. Find the option to hide UI in the control settings.

vsrs_au

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

Need more incentive to NOT use wayshrine and walk around the map dev worked to make other than POI or ressource farming, more random event as example, make the area more than just a place to have hostile mob or the occasional merchant walking down the same road

I wish we could turn off all UI elements, even the compass. It wouldn't just make exploration more interesting and puzzle-y, it would let you actually use emotes during screenshots too.

You can. Find the option to hide UI in the control settings.

There's also a plugin "Ultimate UI Hider" to toggle all UI elements, which I use whenever screen-dumping. It's for non-console platform, of course.

spartaxoxo

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Foxtrot39 wrote: »

Need more incentive to NOT use wayshrine and walk around the map dev worked to make other than POI or ressource farming, more random event as example, make the area more than just a place to have hostile mob or the occasional merchant walking down the same road

I wish we could turn off all UI elements, even the compass. It wouldn't just make exploration more interesting and puzzle-y, it would let you actually use emotes during screenshots too.

You can. Find the option to hide UI in the control settings.

You can't on console at least. I can hide everything but the compass. There is a screenshot mode that does it but then you can't use any skills , mementos, or emotes.

Cireous

Happy 100 Pages Overland Content Feedback Thread!

SilverBride

There is nothing happy about 100 pages of controversy. Please @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin can we get some kind of resolution for this issue?

Franchise408

Quoted post has been removed.

Same here.

Already unsubbed. This forum, and the moderation here are a large reason why, this thread, and ZOS's treatment of it's player base and their creative and design decisions are also a large reason why.

Lack of engaging and meaningful content for vet players, the Battleground debacle, horrible forum moderation, poor treatment of the player base, etc. have all lead to my departure. A shame, because TES is my favorite game series of all time, and to see it handled so poorly by ZOS with ESO is a shame. There's definitely good with ESO, but I feel bad everytime I log in. Logging into this game is not a good feeling, and that's a shame.

Never got my exit survey from ZOS of course. But it is what it is. I won't be buying High Isle. I also made the mistake of buying Blackwood so I could have Rockgrove access. But a single trial is not worth $40.

ZOS_GregoryV

Greetings all,

After review, we would like to remind everyone that Flaming is a violation of the Community Rules, and is stated as follows:

• Flaming: It’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

spartaxoxo

Franchise408 wrote: »

.Never got my exit survey from ZOS of course. But it is what it is. I won't be buying High Isle. I also made the mistake of buying Blackwood so I could have Rockgrove access. But a single trial is not worth $40.

I understand that you have pretty good reasons for not wanting to remain subbed. If the game isn't enjoyable, definitely shouldn't sub or spend money.

If any of you however who are unsubbed do decide you want access to the various new trials but don't enjoy the questing, I would recommend always waiting until the big event around the new chapter. It always coincides with a discount and you still get whatever shiny thing they offer for participating. I have went that route myself in the past.

VaranisArano

Bit of an update in Rich Lambert's interview here: https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

Q: The final question is kind of a pet peeve of mine. I love the questing in The Elder Scrolls Online and I've often compared it even to single player RPGs for its quality, but there is a downside that lots of players have been discussing on Reddit and other forums. That's the difficulty level of questing, story, and Overland content; it's just too low even if you are not fully decked in Trial gear. So my question is, did you consider adding an optional Veteran-like mode for those who'd like to play, for example, the storylines or even Overland content with a greater level of challenge?

A: "That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty."

Q: I did see that there is a pinned Overland content topic on the official forums where you are gathering feedback, right?

A: "Yeah. It comes up pretty often. It is definitely a hot topic right now."

Q: Okay. Well, I do hope there will eventually be an optional harder difficulty level for those who'd like that kind of challenge even while questing.

A: "Noted!"

casparian

Rich wrote:

We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points.

There's an important point here that's worth dwelling on: when you're new the game is harder. That's a big part of what pulled many of us into the game! An enormous Tamriel full of challenge and adventure! But it turns out that the challenge is not meant to stay. That newbie sense of difficulty Rich is noticing is a good feature of the game that is stripped out as you progress.

Rich wrote:

Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms.

The better experience is the incentive. Don't get stuck in marketing-brain, this doesn't have to be complicated. We're not asking for a new way to get gear or anything, we just want an experience that is (to us) more immersive.

Rich wrote:

I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it.

I hear what Rich is saying and it's an important point. But I think it's worth asking how directly we can draw lessons about this from a time before the massive levels of power creep that we have today existed. Nobody had 1000CP back before 1T and the most powerful set was Law of Julianos.

SilverBride

VaranisArano wrote: »

Bit of an update in Rich Lambert's interview here: https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

"...we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty."

Since it seems we have an answer can we please put this debate to rest?

Parasaurolophus

SilverBride wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

What I take away from this is that before One Tamriel players didn't like Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold because it was too hard for them, and nobody did it. He also clearly states that they don't have any major changes planned for the overland difficulty and mentions that incentivising it opens up a whole huge can of worms.

No, it's not... The difficulty has progressed linearly.

NeeScrolls

VaranisArano wrote: »

Bit of an update in Rich Lambert's interview here: https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

A: ", but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty."

./end-thread (finally )

spartaxoxo

VaranisArano wrote: »

Bit of an update in Rich Lambert's interview here: https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

Q: The final question is kind of a pet peeve of mine. I love the questing in The Elder Scrolls Online and I've often compared it even to single player RPGs for its quality, but there is a downside that lots of players have been discussing on Reddit and other forums. That's the difficulty level of questing, story, and Overland content; it's just too low even if you are not fully decked in Trial gear. So my question is, did you consider adding an optional Veteran-like mode for those who'd like to play, for example, the storylines or even Overland content with a greater level of challenge?

A: "That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty."

Q: I did see that there is a pinned Overland content topic on the official forums where you are gathering feedback, right?

A: "Yeah. It comes up pretty often. It is definitely a hot topic right now."

Q: Okay. Well, I do hope there will eventually be an optional harder difficulty level for those who'd like that kind of challenge even while questing.

A: "Noted!"

Thanks so much for posting this. It shouldn't have taken a game journalist advocating on our behalf to get a response that we were promised onto this thread, especially since that response can essentially be summed up as nothing new for now. None of this is new information.

I feel so defeated right now, but at least nobody can tell me that I didn't put up with a lot to advocate for an increase in overland's difficulty in the way I personally felt was best of the game, myself, and the players I play with.

I hope if nothing else they take this as a lesson not to pin topics they have no intention of responding to directly. You want to know why ZOS has a reputation for poor communication? Take this thread as exhibit A. The final response wasn't even posted by ZOS, it was posted by someone who wasn't even actively participating (although probably did lurk) in the thread. Like to finally get a real response, as was promised to us months ago, some random game journalist had to ask and then it just had to have happened to be read by someone on here? That's is so far from acceptable communication that it's picking up rocks on Mars.

Ronin37

spartaxoxo wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Bit of an update in Rich Lambert's interview here: https://wccftech.com/the-elder-scrolls-online-high-isle-preview-qa-fsr-1-0-support-card-game-and-much-more/

Q: The final question is kind of a pet peeve of mine. I love the questing in The Elder Scrolls Online and I've often compared it even to single player RPGs for its quality, but there is a downside that lots of players have been discussing on Reddit and other forums. That's the difficulty level of questing, story, and Overland content; it's just too low even if you are not fully decked in Trial gear. So my question is, did you consider adding an optional Veteran-like mode for those who'd like to play, for example, the storylines or even Overland content with a greater level of challenge?

A: "That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty."

Q: I did see that there is a pinned Overland content topic on the official forums where you are gathering feedback, right?

A: "Yeah. It comes up pretty often. It is definitely a hot topic right now."

Q: Okay. Well, I do hope there will eventually be an optional harder difficulty level for those who'd like that kind of challenge even while questing.

A: "Noted!"

Thanks so much for posting this. It shouldn't have taken a game journalist advocating on our behalf to get a response that we were promised onto this thread, especially since that response can essentially be summed up as nothing new for now. None of this is new information.

I feel so defeated right now, but at least nobody can tell me that I didn't put up with a lot to advocate for an increase in overland's difficulty in the way I personally felt was best of the game, myself, and the players I play with.

I hope if nothing else they take this as a lesson not to pin topics they have no intention of responding to directly. You want to know why ZOS has a reputation for poor communication? Take this thread as exhibit A. It wasn't even posted by ZOS, it was posted by someone who wasn't even actively participating (although probably did lurk) in the thread. Like to finally get a real response, as was promised to us months ago, some random game journalist had to ask and then it just had to have happened to be read by someone on here? That's is so far from acceptable communication that it's picking up rocks on Mars.

Well for a lot off people who feel the same way, this will be a temp MMO until a better one comes out like has always happened and hopefully it will be created for actual gamers.

Shagreth

Overland difficulty is a joke, a one-skill build with crappy gear would have no issues blasting through everything save world bosses and some public dungeons. Stop saying that people would quit if they increased the difficulty, [snip] ESO has better players than that. Overland difficulty is a problem, it was (is) a massive problem for Blizzard too when leveling became so easy in WoW - you could do it blindfolded. Playing through something without having to even utilize 1% of your brain isn't fun. I can't understand how people are defending this design.

Saying every game should be Elden Ring is hyperbole, but games CAN learn from its success, a lot of things actually. If anything, make an optional Overland difficulty, with increased rewards, be it furnishing patterns, sets, whatever. Maybe then my solo vampire build will actually see some use.

The only thing that scares me about ESO's future is its inability, or rather hesitation to evolve, old-gen support contributes to that (not only graphics wise) and I believe making overland matter in some way is detrimental for its survival.

[Edited for Baiting]

WiseSky

Cireous wrote: »

Happy 100 Pages Overland Content Feedback Thread!

@Cireous you beat me to it

Cireous

BIackHand wrote: »

[snip]

If they do end up making changes, it's going to take some time to figure out exactly what to do and how to implement it, especially given the fact that they've been toying with doing something like this in the past but couldn't quite land on the best way to go about it. I'm not sure where people got the impression that someone was going to come into this thread and instruct them on some kind of decision. ZOS keeps everything very close to the chest. I very much doubt we will know about what they intend to do, if anything, until some future Chapter or DLC. I would simply use this thread as a place to put forth your passionate ideas about what things you believe would bring you a better experience. As Rich seemingly hasn't committed to a plan yet, why not help them brainstorm?

That said, I also grow weary of 'waiting'. This incredibly poor Overland experience for players who want friction with the combat as well as the story has been in the game for so many years now, with endless complaining about it, both here and on Reddit. It's very hard to put yourself in the mindset of the person at the top who can't see just how bad the situation has gotten. The added stats to our characters (mainly health) that we can no longer spec out of, the addition of companions, power creep coming from just about everywhere. Overland felt bad a few years ago, but now, in my opinion, we're arriving at a point of near complete neglect.

However, they plan for things years in advance and were likely cementing the ideas for any recent upcoming content well before this thread began. It's gonna take some time to catch up and get this kind of overhaul into the game. I just hope it's more of a priority now then ever before.

[edited to remove quote]

spartaxoxo

Cireous wrote: »

I'm not sure where people got the impression that someone was going to come into this thread and instruct them on some kind of decision.

We got it directly from them. They literally said they would provide us a response.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Thanks for tagging me, SilverBride.

Several of us have been keeping tabs on and reading this forum post over the last several weeks since starting it up. We will be going through this thread to build out a report specifically on this topic and sharing that with the team at large for their consideration in the future. We think this thread will be helpful to get to the root of player concern on various sides of this conversation of overland difficulty. So thank you all of the time put into having lively discourse around the topic.

Beyond that, nothing to report now, but we will be working toward having a more detailed answer regarding overland content in the future.

This was a few months ago.