Why PvErs don't like IC

Tommy_The_Gun

molecule wrote: »

2 ) 3 whole times a year - is that really too much ?

Only IC gets this much attention when it comes to events & tickets. They did not even included IC dungeons, which is weird as those are also the part of IC DLC. There are plenty of other awesome DLCs zones that we could get with some kind of anniversary event that we had not seen for a while. But for past events we pretty much get IC over & over. This is getting to the point that I would dare to say that I am not the only one who is fed up with it (And I am a PvP-er too).

It is clear that ZOS wants to populate IC, but... they are doing it in a completely wrong way. IC is dead empty outside of events for a reason. It is probably the most toxic zone in the entire game (PvE area with PvP enabled in a tiny confined space). It works in Cyro, because Cyro is big and even if you get attacked in a questing hub - you can still get away as those are not cramped areas, or you can fight back. But IC is just ball groups & gank groups. No big armies & big fights. Also - there is no place for solo players there which is why it is dead empty 24/7.

Like I have said - they are trying to make IC more popular, but they are doing it completely wrong. Players wont like this zone all of the sudden if you force them to go there. If something the effect will be opposite - more & more people will dislike this zone. And it is already happening. With each event's end IC is getting (overall) more & more empty. Outside of events it is empty almost always with population spikes only in weekends - but it is never full or locked pop.

In order to make this zone populated, ZOS should make it more attractive for wider group of players. Adding new sets to grind is also not the way to go. People should go there to have fun. That is the key word. Fun. Grinding for RNG leads is not fun. Especially if you are solo & you get ganked. It is a griefer's paradise.

Tranquilizer

I was there today with my stealthy nb (some would call it a gankblade ), just wanted to do the dailies for the coffers, because too much groups romping around. But when I saw players with 18-22k health... well, that's an invitation for everyone.

If you don't want to get ganked come prepared. Stack some health and resistances. 28k+ health will save you from most ganks. Also, when you're in a group, take care for your team mates. I was able to pick one 18k health guy out of a group of about six or seven and was able to survive. I even haven't been attacked by the rest of the group.

But don't come unprepared and then complain here about the evil pvpers.

daim

I got a vampblade so i can easily do the catapult daily in ic. Its pretty much unkillable because of the invisibility, hardly anyone will bother to hunt her down.

kringled_1

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

I'm a PvEr and I like the Imperial City. I mean, it certainly isn't my favorite zone, but I definitely don't hate it, and I sometimes go there to do the district dailies or run around the sewers outside of these events.

If you want my honest opinion, the biggest problem with the Imperial City is that the dailies are too monotonous. And that's a problem that some of the other zones have, as well.

In some zones a particular quest-giver will cycle through several different quests, usually 1 quest per day, so you can go back the next day and you won't have to repeat the same exact quest as the day before.

But in zones like the Imperial City and Craglorn, a particular quest-giver will always offer the exact same quest every single day, such that after a certain number of days of doing the same quests over and over, you begin to lose interest.

Even in zones where there are a smaller number of delves and world bosses, it helps break up the monotony a bit when the quest-givers keep sending you back to the same delves and world bosses but with a slightly different goal each time, such as was done in Southern Elsweyr. This is especially true if the different goals require you to go to different locations in a delve.

If the Imperial City dailies could be varied from day to day, I think it would help make the zone more interesting to go back to from day to day. If they can't add more dailies in each district, even something as simple as limiting it to just one district per day, with a quest-giver in the sewer base who tells you which district you need to do today's daily in, then you go there and get the details of the quest from the existing quest-givers, might help to keep things more interesting, since it would take 6 days to go through the complete cycle of dailies. And maybe they could add another quest-giver in the sewer base who asks you to go to a different district and kill the patrolling boss there.

Anyway, better RNG would be nice, and more desirable rewards would be great, but in my opinion there needs to be a bit more variety from day to day or things tend to get stale pretty fast.

You could literally replicate much of what you're asking for by only doing one district daily a day and rotating around the city. I'm in IC all the time and I don't do all 6 most days.

And while a patrolling horror daily would add variety, it would probably also add a lot of frustration.
Outside of events like this, it's usually pretty straightforward to run the dailies without a lot of conflict. If people think you're going to be a pain to fight (too evasive, too tanky, whatever) and you're staying out of their way, most of them won't chase you down relentlessly.
Bosses, as the biggest source of tel var, bring conflict. Most people who farm bosses will defend it against people from another alliance. Many will move bosses someplace out of the way so that people don't get in on it. At busy times, bosses often have a short lifespan. So a boss daily is almost certainly going to be more frustrating for anyone who's not an IC diehard.

Amottica

I think PvEers not liking IC has more to do with PvEers not liking PvP. We can look through the forum when there is an event that includes PvP zones and players are complaining about the PvP and the drop rates do not seem to be the issue.

AcadianPaladin

I have no complaint against PvP; it is simply an activity I do not enjoy. At the heart of the matter is that it involves players fighting other players and no amount of enticements, tweaking, performance, skill changes, etc is going to change that which is the core of PvP.

Again, no complaints from me as a solo PvE'er. There is plenty of content for me to enjoy. When there is something I may want in Cyrodiil/IC, I simply do an analysis as to whether what I want is worth doing something I will not enjoy. Sometimes yes, most of the time, no. That all said, when I do go into PvPland, I do so with the understanding that it is the realm of PvPers and it is my responsibility to adapt/adjust - not the responsibility of the PvP zone or players to adjust to me.

cheeseaddict

PVP and IC sucks, if you are not geared up just you're are just fodder for the A..H.... there

FrancisCrawford

VaranisArano wrote: »

molecule wrote: »

MrBrownstone wrote: »

, but forcing everyone to IC three times a year is a bit much.

1 ) No-one is ' forcing' you - your game wont uninstall if you dont go there.

2 ) 3 whole times a year - is that really too much ?

So, I'm a PVPer, just for context.

Yeah, doing the same Imperial City District Dailies three times a year is too many.

Here's why:

- Midyear Mayhem 2019 handed out event tickets for any PvPvE daily quest in Cyrodiil and Battlegrounds. MYM in Jan 2020 handed out three event tickets for any PvPvE daily quest in Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds, and the Imperial City. This business of "Thou must do an Imperial City Daily if thou desires tickets" is something ZOS has chosen to do. It's not how MYM was originally implemented. There's no reason ZOS couldn't give us tickets for doing just one daily.

- Past Imperial City Events gave tickets for completing White Gold Tower or Imperial City Prison. That's right - players used to have a PVE-only, completely safe option to get tickets. Again, "Thou must do an Imperial City Daily for tickets" is a choice ZOS has made.

- It's the only daily we have to do three times this year for event tickets. Sorry, ZOS, but the IC dailies aren't that good. One of them literally involves sitting on your spawn tower and taking potshots at nearby daedra. Thrilling gameplay.

- It's extremely limited compared to similar options for non-PVPers. In Cyrodiil, you've got a lot of options for how to do a daily quest. I'm a PVPer, so I usually do one of the kill X players quests. Meanwhile a non-PVPer can pick from scouting missions or five towns worth of dailies. In Imperial City, you have 6 dailies to choose from.


The result is that we've done the same six dailies three times this year for no reason other than that ZOS really, really wants players to do the Imperial City District Dailies.

And as a PVPer who prefers Cyrodiil, it sucks.

More than 3 times. Given that events are a little longer than 12 days, it's more than 6 times for whichever of the quests one finds least annoying.

stybbe17b16_ESO

Tbh the worse thing about IC is the 15min climbing up and down ladders to pick up all the dailies.

FlopsyPrince

moo_2021 wrote: »

It wouldn't be a problem if there is a healthy population in IC, like over 100 on surface for each alliance, rather than 10-2-0.

The indicated numbers just indicate the number of people who could zone back in, not the ones there, at least that is my experience. Otherwise AD would never have a case where they are the only ones locked, yet do not control a single zone.

AzuraFan

It's too bad there can't be a non-PvP version of IC and Cyrodiil, and a PvP version of PvE overland zones (for all those PvPers who complain that overland is too easy - let them fight each other while they're racing for that resource node lol).

(I have nothing against PvP, though I'm not a PvP'er myself. I might go into IC during the event, but since I only want to get one item during this event and can get the tickets just by doing the daily in Wrothgar, I doubt I'll actually end up there.)

jle30303

molecule wrote: »

MrBrownstone wrote: »

, but forcing everyone to IC three times a year is a bit much.

1 ) No-one is ' forcing' you - your game wont uninstall if you dont go there.

2 ) 3 whole times a year - is that really too much ?

If there is a reward for an event (which is not itself a specifically PVP-focused event), and you can't get that reward without going there, then yes, that counts as forcing. You can refuse to go there, but you are punished for doing so.

Solution: There are THREE zones that this event is dedicated to. There are TWO event tickets available per day. PVE players should be able to get their tickets, one from Wrothgar, one from Craglorn.

Toxic_Hemlock

I won't speak for anyone but me so; I I'll just settle for getting one ticket a day for this event. I tried IC but getting in and out is a royal PITA and required me to search the net to find out just what hoops I needed to jump through. The "bosses" are not easy to find, I may have been a bit impatient trying to find one, but it becomes an even larger PITA to find one when you are on your back for 99% of the game time there. I expected to die, but finding a group there is like watching someone try to herd cats so I will just avoid it in the future.

The plus side is IC so odious to me that I will instead just ignore it like I do Craglorn in the future. Good thing I got Orsinium or this entire event would be skipped by me.

Edit to add that it is nice of Zos to add an areas just for the gankers. I personally can't see how this was a wise investment for their stock holders, but I'm sure the < 1% of players are elated that you though of them.

spartaxoxo

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

That is the key word. Fun. Grinding for RNG leads is not fun. Especially if you are solo & you get ganked. It is a griefer's paradise.

PvPers fight it like hell, but they need to rework the Tel-Var mechanic. Right now it encourages just ganking people or moving in huge groups, which completely kills the reason for PvE-ers and solo PvPers to bother.

If it was more reasonable to be out there without a group and just fight for your space, more people would do it.

Tommy_The_Gun

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

That is the key word. Fun. Grinding for RNG leads is not fun. Especially if you are solo & you get ganked. It is a griefer's paradise.

PvPers fight it like hell, but they need to rework the Tel-Var mechanic. Right now it encourages just ganking people or moving in huge groups, which completely kills the reason for PvE-ers and solo PvPers to bother.

If it was more reasonable to be out there without a group and just fight for your space, more people would do it.

Yep. It would be nice if they somehow made PvE & PvP to coexist and to be fun & engaging, but that is hard, if not impossible to do. Because even if ZOS somehow introduces a mechanic to reduce ganking (like less ap / te-var) - players will still do it simply because they can. IC simply draws this kind of players, who take joy in making harm to others. They don't care about tel-var.

Sadly, the only way to make IC populated is to simply add a separate PvE only campaign without tel-var and key fragments.

EF321

Hey guys, check this out, I made safe-ish PvE farming build for IC:

Body: 5-piece new sithis touch, heavy chest, rest to your liking/spec (~5k gold for whole set in guild stores)
Jewelry: vengeance leech (~10k gold for purples)
Frontbar: Shock Master's Staff with destructive clench / for stam Titanic Cleave for stam (both DSA which has double drops to)
Backbar: Some defensive arena weapon (resto or snb or brp dw)
Mythic: Gaze of sithis.
Shoulder: Domihaus/Swarm mother's or new one Magma Incarnate (don't even need dlc for shoulder!)

Idea: you run super fast, stack and destroy mobs, all while being full on all resources always and becoming invisible every other second and exiting fight in stealth at no resource cost.

When things don't go your way, just cleave some mobs! Regain all resources and go stealth for free.

Ippokrates

EF321 wrote: »

Hey guys, check this out, I made safe-ish PvE farming build for IC:

Body: 5-piece new sithis touch, heavy chest, rest to your liking/spec (~5k gold for whole set in guild stores)
Jewelry: vengeance leech (~10k gold for purples)
Frontbar: Shock Master's Staff with destructive clench / for stam Titanic Cleave for stam (both DSA which has double drops to)
Backbar: Some defensive arena weapon (resto or snb or brp dw)
Mythic: Gaze of sithis.
Shoulder: Domihaus/Swarm mother's or new one Magma Incarnate (don't even need dlc for shoulder!)

Idea: you run super fast, stack and destroy mobs, all while being full on all resources always and becoming invisible every other second and exiting fight in stealth at no resource cost.

When things don't go your way, just cleave some mobs! Regain all resources and go stealth for free.

Beautiful. This is what this forum should be about. Not REEEEEEEEEEEEEEK complains ^^

TwinStripeUK

molecule wrote: »

MrBrownstone wrote: »

, but forcing everyone to IC three times a year is a bit much.

1 ) No-one is ' forcing' you - your game wont uninstall if you dont go there.

2 ) 3 whole times a year - is that really too much ?

1) Tying event tickets to the mode definitely 'forces' players (unless they want to only pick up half of the available tickets). Tying lead drops to IC bosses definitely 'forces' players.

2) Yes, when you spend 45 minutes getting 'spawn ganked' or steamrollered by 'Zoal the Ever Wakeful' after emerging from your base for what should be a five minute daily, then far, FAR too much. Your time within this game should be fun, not the polar opposite.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

IC would be a really great PvE public or trial dungeon if it was setup that way. IC would be a really great BG or other PvP combat zone if it was setup for that. And that's the problem, IC can't be both PvP and PvE with out mostly failing at both.

VaranisArano

Toxic_Hemlock wrote: »

I won't speak for anyone but me so; I I'll just settle for getting one ticket a day for this event. I tried IC but getting in and out is a royal PITA and required me to search the net to find out just what hoops I needed to jump through. The "bosses" are not easy to find, I may have been a bit impatient trying to find one, but it becomes an even larger PITA to find one when you are on your back for 99% of the game time there. I expected to die, but finding a group there is like watching someone try to herd cats so I will just avoid it in the future.

The plus side is IC so odious to me that I will instead just ignore it like I do Craglorn in the future. Good thing I got Orsinium or this entire event would be skipped by me.

Edit to add that it is nice of Zos to add an areas just for the gankers. I personally can't see how this was a wise investment for their stock holders, but I'm sure the < 1% of players are elated that you though of them.

For future reference, for you or anyone else with the same questions about getting in and getting out:

Going to Imperial City
1. Navigate to your Alliance War tab
2. Pick one of the Imperial City campaigns (if you are Below level 50, I suggest the No CP campaign. Otherwise, it's your preference. If you want to avoid PVP as much as possible, try to pick a campaign that either has a lot of members of your alliance shown in the population bars next to the campaign name or one that has few players.)
3. when the queue notification pops up, accept, and you'll be taken to your safe Sewer Base in the Imperial Sewers.

Before you head out, deposit any Tel Var you don't want to risk using the currency drop down menu on the Banker in the base. Consider buying a Sigil of Imperial Retreat from the General Tel Var Merchant - despite the name, it costs 10k AP. Then you can use a door to exit to the Sewers or climb ladders up to each district, where you'll get the Daily Quests.

How to get back to your base with a Tel Var haul

• Die. This will lose half your Tel Var, so it's not exactly recommended. Nevertheless, when you die, you can release back to your base or any district your alliance owns. In a District, you'll spawn on a tower and can immediately drop down the trapdoor to be back in your sewer base.
• Use a Sigil of Imperial Retreat. It's a consumable item that teleports you back to base. I advise sneaking somewhere out of the way so you don't get spotted and killed doing the teleport animation.
• Queue for a Cyrodiil Campaign. Then in Cyrodiil, queue up for any Imperial City campaign to end up back in base.
• Manually enter either the White Gold Tower or Imperial City Prison dungeons, then leave that instance, and queue up for any Imperial City campaign.
• Sneak through the Sewers back to your base. This is obviously extremely dangerous, so good luck!

Leaving Imperial City

• Find the exit door in your Sewer Base. It's usually opposite the door you use to get to the Sewers. This will take you back to your last PVE zone.
• Queue for a Cyrodiil campaign. Then use the wayshrine in rear of the base to travel to your choice of PVE zone.
• Manually enter White Gold Tower or Imperial City Prison, then leave the instance.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

(More tips for non-PVPers - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/584661/imperial-city-101-for-non-pvpers-an-event-guide )

Vhozek

I'm typically a hardcore player when it comes to other games but no matter how good the rewards, I will never go to PvP in this game. I'm not sure what it is about it that I just do not enjoy at all.

Dzadzey

Vevvev wrote: »

Lady_Galadhiel wrote: »

Lot of PvP players dont like IC either,not only the PvE'ers.

^ This

Open world + tight spaces + powerful PvE foes = An unenjoyable time for everyone.

There is a reason the survival and farming tactics in the Imperial city are very selfish and stealth oriented. Going with a group splits the Tel'Var rewards evenly among all the people that fought the opponent, which means if you're going in a group it'll end up being a slower farm than going solo. Going solo gives you a higher chance of the rewards, but without numbers on your side you need speed and stealth should you encounter enemy combatants. Sure you could try a brawler or tank approach but how long till you get overwhelmed? Is the risk of staying and fighting worth it when you lose 50% of your Tel'Var currency?

The zone has too many gotchas in it for both PvP and PvE people to be fun and enjoyable for most.

It's just a wreck and needs, desperately, to be rebalanced...even scrapped and rebuilt.

lillybit

Amottica wrote: »

I think PvEers not liking IC has more to do with PvEers not liking PvP. We can look through the forum when there is an event that includes PvP zones and players are complaining about the PvP and the drop rates do not seem to be the issue.

Not true at all in my case. I'm a PvEer but I've participated in every single MYM event (by PvPing, not just town quests) and enjoyed them. I even did battlegrounds for the last one. I'll never be good at PvP but I contribute in other ways (sieging, repairing, rezzing and yep, I'm a filthy zerger!) and found I'm surprisingly good at land grab BGs just because I don't treat them like a deathmatch, avoid the fighting and do the objective

IC is different. Nobody wants to group for it, it's impossible to avoid people and of course the gankers! Tel Vars make it even worse because you're actively punished for not being very good. You know you won't avoid being killed and it discourages you from wanting to collect them at all. When I have to go in for the dailies I avoid collecting them as much as I possibly can, so that when I'm eventually ganked all they get is a disappointment.

Just jumping in and having a go doesn't work. If PvP had a vet level, this would be it. I'm sure PvPers would have something to say about it if they were forced to do vet trials for two weeks to get event rewards.

I'm not saying we should never have to go there. I don't like it but I see the point of making it compulsory for MYM. Adding in yet another event that makes us go there every year at the expense of other zones is harder to stand tho. I mean has there ever been a Murkmire event? I hate that zone too but it would be a lot more attractive if the alternative was IC

ADarklore

I think the only time I've been to IC, was years ago with a Nightblade, so I could use cloak in order to collect Skyshards.

Artemiisia

hmm the first two city bosses I did I got both mystic leads in this event

Darrett

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

IC would be a really great PvE public or trial dungeon if it was setup that way. IC would be a really BG or other PvP combat zone if it was setup for that. And that's the problem, IC can't be both PvP and PvE with out mostly failing at both.

That’s what it was supposed to be. It was supposed to be a PvE zone with PvP enabled that unlocked for your alliance when you controlled Cyrodiil. Other alliances could remain inside after they lost control and could harass the controlling alliance, but they couldn’t respawn if they died.

It can’t really function that way with the One Tamriel setup unless they did some really clever reworking that I can’t imagine, but it would have been awesome under the original setup.

Lylith

i do both pvp and pve but i despise i.c. and any event that requires it.

Vhozek

We've told them since the beginning that the combat doesn't feel impactful. There's no weight behind the attacks. Maybe if combat was interesting, I'd play.

BXR_Lonestar

RandomKodiak wrote: »

ZoS needs to improve drop rates for things like leads and loot from bosses there. I don't lose much gold and don't care about the Telvar but after 20 bosses no leads barely any loot it gets old. PvErs for the most part only go there when they have to with the understanding that they are going to get killed. The old battle cry from PvPers of "I have to PvE so shut up." does not hold water though for one reason, PvErs can't stop you from getting your dungeon loot with friends or Trials for that matter. PvErs going into IC have to deal with both range AND PvPers killing them. If they would up the drop rate in IC it might be worth going there but with the same crappy range and getting ganked every 5 seconds while trying to get loot, is why I can't and I'm sure others be bothered. Plus for all the sweaties about to respond "Git Gud", which requires millions in gold worth of more sets for a play style I hate, would you really hate it if you could get your loot faster in your favorite play style?

This is why they made the nightblade class. I have a nightblade ganker that can operate in the IC almost with impunity because of stealth and invisability, and when occasion calls for it, invisibility potions. It's not perfect, sometimes you still get caught, but I die far less than on any other class playing in the IC. Then if you want the boss kills, you can just wait until you see people fighting them, sneak a shot in and hide, and wait till the coast is clear. It's really not that bad.

Actually, I tend to find the IC fun on most occasions.

Sarannah

As a PvE'er I honestly couldn't care less about any loot increases. I already think PvP is too rewarding as it is, but I'm still not going there. I really wish players would stop trying to come up with reasons for why players do not PvP, or with ways to try and 'fix' PvP. Some players just do not want to PvP, it is that simple!

Only going there for my event ticket, and out I go.