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NB Cloak update - So uh.... This is about to go live?

  • gamma71
    gamma71
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    Is nb walking thru caltrops and staying in stealth and taking no damage a bug ?
  • Tommy_The_Gun
    Tommy_The_Gun
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    geonsocal wrote: »
    geonsocal wrote: »
    sorry for not watching/listening to your whole vid - but, is there something else besides this?
    You are missing a lot in the patch notes:

    "Adjusted many player abilities to no longer attempt to remove Stealth or Invisibility when they should not. This is also expanded to any Damage over Time effect, rather than only single target Damage over Time effects, as we want the removal and denial of Stealth and Invisibility to be more active rather than passive.

    This means that the only player abilities that should remove stealth are Area of Effect Direct Damage, Stuns, Fears, or Immobilizes, as well as Reveals. Attacks made with Detection potions active may still damage the target but will not strip their Stealth or Invisibility.
    Also fixed many issues where attacks that were checking in areas regularly to hit singular targets could target Stealthed or Invisible targets, such as Force Pulse or Shrouded Dagger’s bouncing attacks. Any attack that checks in an area to attack singular targets will no longer attempt to even apply to targets under these effects."

    thank you @vesselwiththepestle ...so, stuff like hurricane and elemental blockade can still be used to find stealthed players, but, stuff like corrupting pollen or combat prayer won't reveal?

    what about stuff like those fetcher flies or the venomous smite proc?
    I think Hurricane counts as AOE DOT (just like Caltrops), so it should not remove invisibility / cloak. Only Direct dmg & / or hard CCs will interrupt cloak. NB will still take dmg from it, but they should not be revealed.
  • Vevvev
    Vevvev
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    gamma71 wrote: »
    Is nb walking thru caltrops and staying in stealth and taking no damage a bug ?

    They should at least be taking damage, but still remain in stealth.
    PC NA
    Ceyanna Ashton - Breton MagDK
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    geonsocal wrote: »
    geonsocal wrote: »
    sorry for not watching/listening to your whole vid - but, is there something else besides this?
    You are missing a lot in the patch notes:

    "Adjusted many player abilities to no longer attempt to remove Stealth or Invisibility when they should not. This is also expanded to any Damage over Time effect, rather than only single target Damage over Time effects, as we want the removal and denial of Stealth and Invisibility to be more active rather than passive.

    This means that the only player abilities that should remove stealth are Area of Effect Direct Damage, Stuns, Fears, or Immobilizes, as well as Reveals. Attacks made with Detection potions active may still damage the target but will not strip their Stealth or Invisibility.
    Also fixed many issues where attacks that were checking in areas regularly to hit singular targets could target Stealthed or Invisible targets, such as Force Pulse or Shrouded Dagger’s bouncing attacks. Any attack that checks in an area to attack singular targets will no longer attempt to even apply to targets under these effects."

    thank you @vesselwiththepestle ...so, stuff like hurricane and elemental blockade can still be used to find stealthed players, but, stuff like corrupting pollen or combat prayer won't reveal?

    what about stuff like those fetcher flies or the venomous smite proc?
    I think Hurricane counts as AOE DOT (just like Caltrops), so it should not remove invisibility / cloak. Only Direct dmg & / or hard CCs will interrupt cloak. NB will still take dmg from it, but they should not be revealed.

    exactly
    very well said
    rest assured, that i did read your response to my feedback comment(s), i always do. and unless i respond back to your comment directly, then i will always stand by my original feedback statement.
  • geonsocal
    geonsocal
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    geonsocal wrote: »
    geonsocal wrote: »
    sorry for not watching/listening to your whole vid - but, is there something else besides this?
    You are missing a lot in the patch notes:

    "Adjusted many player abilities to no longer attempt to remove Stealth or Invisibility when they should not. This is also expanded to any Damage over Time effect, rather than only single target Damage over Time effects, as we want the removal and denial of Stealth and Invisibility to be more active rather than passive.

    This means that the only player abilities that should remove stealth are Area of Effect Direct Damage, Stuns, Fears, or Immobilizes, as well as Reveals. Attacks made with Detection potions active may still damage the target but will not strip their Stealth or Invisibility.
    Also fixed many issues where attacks that were checking in areas regularly to hit singular targets could target Stealthed or Invisible targets, such as Force Pulse or Shrouded Dagger’s bouncing attacks. Any attack that checks in an area to attack singular targets will no longer attempt to even apply to targets under these effects."

    thank you @vesselwiththepestle ...so, stuff like hurricane and elemental blockade can still be used to find stealthed players, but, stuff like corrupting pollen or combat prayer won't reveal?

    what about stuff like those fetcher flies or the venomous smite proc?
    I think Hurricane counts as AOE DOT (just like Caltrops), so it should not remove invisibility / cloak. Only Direct dmg & / or hard CCs will interrupt cloak. NB will still take dmg from it, but they should not be revealed.

    thanks @Tommy_The_Gun ...just thinking of clearing keeps of stealthed enemies: how in the heck to do direct damage an enemy if you can't see them...

    spin to win, hurricane, blockade and other random aoe's were good tools for that...
    PS4: NA and EU (Grey Host) - This Must be the Place
  • gamma71
    gamma71
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    Hey nb bombers are the most complained about aspect in cyrodil now. Zos let's buff there cloak to make it easier for the them to blow the [snip] out of everyone. What are they smoking over there?

    [edited for profanity bypass]
    Edited by ZOS_SarahF on August 23, 2021 10:26AM
  • ealdwin
    ealdwin
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    geonsocal wrote: »
    geonsocal wrote: »
    geonsocal wrote: »
    sorry for not watching/listening to your whole vid - but, is there something else besides this?
    You are missing a lot in the patch notes:

    "Adjusted many player abilities to no longer attempt to remove Stealth or Invisibility when they should not. This is also expanded to any Damage over Time effect, rather than only single target Damage over Time effects, as we want the removal and denial of Stealth and Invisibility to be more active rather than passive.

    This means that the only player abilities that should remove stealth are Area of Effect Direct Damage, Stuns, Fears, or Immobilizes, as well as Reveals. Attacks made with Detection potions active may still damage the target but will not strip their Stealth or Invisibility.
    Also fixed many issues where attacks that were checking in areas regularly to hit singular targets could target Stealthed or Invisible targets, such as Force Pulse or Shrouded Dagger’s bouncing attacks. Any attack that checks in an area to attack singular targets will no longer attempt to even apply to targets under these effects."

    thank you @vesselwiththepestle ...so, stuff like hurricane and elemental blockade can still be used to find stealthed players, but, stuff like corrupting pollen or combat prayer won't reveal?

    what about stuff like those fetcher flies or the venomous smite proc?
    I think Hurricane counts as AOE DOT (just like Caltrops), so it should not remove invisibility / cloak. Only Direct dmg & / or hard CCs will interrupt cloak. NB will still take dmg from it, but they should not be revealed.

    thanks @Tommy_The_Gun ...just thinking of clearing keeps of stealthed enemies: how in the heck to do direct damage an enemy if you can't see them...

    spin to win, hurricane, blockade and other random aoe's were good tools for that...

    Spin to win should still work for pulling enemies out of stealth as its classified as a direct damage AoE.
  • EF321
    EF321
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    Okay, I got my Sentry ready...
  • Fhritz
    Fhritz
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    snipezor wrote: »
    The only way that cloak/stealth needed any help was by making it apparent that someone is using a detect potion. Being revealed upon damage by any source makes perfect sense and should be kept. A nightblade who gets caught by caltrops, hurricane, ballistae, whirlwind, et al, is a nightblade who did it wrong.

    - Signed, a NB main.

    Nope. Cloack is one of the few natives defensive skills, It's not just about being invisible.Cloack was actually bugged and inconsistent for both nightblades AND opponent. Plus DoT AoE shouldn't be used as detect skill, it's unfair.

    - Signed, a NB main
    I'm a single character man.
    Stamblade. Khajiit. Mostly pvp.
    And...that's it.
  • ManDraKE
    ManDraKE
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    health desync will noxious breath is a thing on live too, probably not as obvious or easy to reproduce as what you are showing on PTS, but if you start spamming noxious on nbs trying to run away with cloak you will endup killing them from half HP many times. Is probably not that easy to notice on live since more experienced players are not going to just spam cloak and get pulled out of stealth with noxious over and over again, but is kinda easy to watch when you are playing a DK and dealing with newbie nighblades.

    Knowing how these things trend to work on ESO, these changes are probably going to add half a dozen of different HP desyncs and other bugs to nightblades and make them unplayable for an entire patch. Nighblade has always been the most bugged class, i dont recall a patch in the last 2 years where just cloak, a single class skill, hasn't had at least half a dozen of bugs attached to it.
  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
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    geonsocal wrote: »
    geonsocal wrote: »
    sorry for not watching/listening to your whole vid - but, is there something else besides this?
    You are missing a lot in the patch notes:

    "Adjusted many player abilities to no longer attempt to remove Stealth or Invisibility when they should not. This is also expanded to any Damage over Time effect, rather than only single target Damage over Time effects, as we want the removal and denial of Stealth and Invisibility to be more active rather than passive.

    This means that the only player abilities that should remove stealth are Area of Effect Direct Damage, Stuns, Fears, or Immobilizes, as well as Reveals. Attacks made with Detection potions active may still damage the target but will not strip their Stealth or Invisibility.
    Also fixed many issues where attacks that were checking in areas regularly to hit singular targets could target Stealthed or Invisible targets, such as Force Pulse or Shrouded Dagger’s bouncing attacks. Any attack that checks in an area to attack singular targets will no longer attempt to even apply to targets under these effects."

    thank you @vesselwiththepestle ...so, stuff like hurricane and elemental blockade can still be used to find stealthed players, but, stuff like corrupting pollen or combat prayer won't reveal?

    what about stuff like those fetcher flies or the venomous smite proc?
    I think Hurricane counts as AOE DOT (just like Caltrops), so it should not remove invisibility / cloak. Only Direct dmg & / or hard CCs will interrupt cloak. NB will still take dmg from it, but they should not be revealed.

    I think hurricane is considered direct AOE skill, it proc machineca acuity.
  • geonsocal
    geonsocal
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    geonsocal wrote: »
    geonsocal wrote: »
    sorry for not watching/listening to your whole vid - but, is there something else besides this?
    You are missing a lot in the patch notes:

    "Adjusted many player abilities to no longer attempt to remove Stealth or Invisibility when they should not. This is also expanded to any Damage over Time effect, rather than only single target Damage over Time effects, as we want the removal and denial of Stealth and Invisibility to be more active rather than passive.

    This means that the only player abilities that should remove stealth are Area of Effect Direct Damage, Stuns, Fears, or Immobilizes, as well as Reveals. Attacks made with Detection potions active may still damage the target but will not strip their Stealth or Invisibility.
    Also fixed many issues where attacks that were checking in areas regularly to hit singular targets could target Stealthed or Invisible targets, such as Force Pulse or Shrouded Dagger’s bouncing attacks. Any attack that checks in an area to attack singular targets will no longer attempt to even apply to targets under these effects."

    thank you @vesselwiththepestle ...so, stuff like hurricane and elemental blockade can still be used to find stealthed players, but, stuff like corrupting pollen or combat prayer won't reveal?

    what about stuff like those fetcher flies or the venomous smite proc?
    I think Hurricane counts as AOE DOT (just like Caltrops), so it should not remove invisibility / cloak. Only Direct dmg & / or hard CCs will interrupt cloak. NB will still take dmg from it, but they should not be revealed.

    I think hurricane is considered direct AOE skill, it proc machineca acuity.

    this right here, literally some of the abilities and gear have limited rhyme or reason to how they're classified...you seriously need to look at a zos approved list somewhere...those lists aren't always easy to find if they exist at all...plus, it's a game - who wants to have to go researching how every little process in the game actually functions...

    rant over...
    PS4: NA and EU (Grey Host) - This Must be the Place
  • MadeInVN
    MadeInVN
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    NBs need to be given better heals and cloak or any stealth mechanic needs to be deleted from the game. Too many players scared to fight and instead choose to sit in stealth waiting for you to be outnumbered then they pull the stun from stealth b.s
  • Amottica
    Amottica
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    Jackey wrote: »
    Gonna have to stock up on detection pots I guess :|

    It could very well be that Zenimax wants us to start using the tools they gave us to pull people out of sneak.
  • blktauna
    blktauna
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    MadeInVN wrote: »
    NBs need to be given better heals and cloak or any stealth mechanic needs to be deleted from the game. Too many players scared to fight and instead choose to sit in stealth waiting for you to be outnumbered then they pull the stun from stealth b.s

    Sounds more like you are afraid of the NBs. Your taste for Mano a mano is not the arbiter of how the game _must_ be played.

    I'd be happy if Cloak actually worked to just cloak. Its so inconsistent now I hardly use it.
  • ResidentContrarian
    ResidentContrarian
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    Amottica wrote: »
    Jackey wrote: »
    Gonna have to stock up on detection pots I guess :|

    It could very well be that Zenimax wants us to start using the tools they gave us to pull people out of sneak.

    Right, that is why there are still no detect potions available for alliance points after all these years despite every other class "feature" being countered by something available for AP and stealth being advantageous specifically in PvP?

    It could also be someone balancing the game with a huge bias for their favorite class.
  • Jackey
    Jackey
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    Amottica wrote: »
    Jackey wrote: »
    Gonna have to stock up on detection pots I guess :|

    It could very well be that Zenimax wants us to start using the tools they gave us to pull people out of sneak.

    Nightblade is a very popular if not the most popular class on my server.
    These tools will be mandatory after the patch, which is the wrong direction to go in my opinion.

    It might even indirectly cause this change to be a huge nerf for nightblades because of everyone using some sort of detect tool.
    PS | EU
  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
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    Jackey wrote: »
    Amottica wrote: »
    Jackey wrote: »
    Gonna have to stock up on detection pots I guess :|

    It could very well be that Zenimax wants us to start using the tools they gave us to pull people out of sneak.

    Nightblade is a very popular if not the most popular class on my server.
    These tools will be mandatory after the patch, which is the wrong direction to go in my opinion.

    It might even indirectly cause this change to be a huge nerf for nightblades because of everyone using some sort of detect tool.

    That would be a nice change. Everytime I play BG, there is like 4-5 nightblades, you can't see them, you can't kill them, sunddely you are dead. I play with 38k HP stamsorc, my resist are low 19k, but the damage I recieve is from nightblades is absurd. 5-6k surprise attacks, 7-11k incaps, 10-15k merciless/killer blade/excutioner. None of the other classes, even stamsorcs do as much damage. Any nefr to stealth is all welcome for me, nightblades would have never manage to get these numbers if it was not for cloak.
  • blktauna
    blktauna
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    Funny I get those numbers and surprise deaths from sorcs and necros with invis pots so not so much cloak being the problem. If you can't pull a NB out of stealth now, when if you look at us the wrong way we are pulled out, then you are going to have a problem when it's working properly. But that's a you thing, not a cloak thing.
  • universal_wrath
    universal_wrath
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    blktauna wrote: »
    Funny I get those numbers and surprise deaths from sorcs and necros with invis pots so not so much cloak being the problem. If you can't pull a NB out of stealth now, when if you look at us the wrong way we are pulled out, then you are going to have a problem when it's working properly. But that's a you thing, not a cloak thing.

    Tell me how to properly pull a nightblade when I move next to him with my hurricane at max radius? They move as fast as I do and deal more damage because I try for survivability, my hurricane and caltraps that I thow over them are not pull them out of stealth, please tell me how to pull a nightblade out of stealth without magicka detect pots. If there were some detect pots for stamina I would have use them.

    I'm almost certain that most of the stamsorcs you face are proc sorcs, it is expect to get numbers like that when you have 3 sets firing at same time. For mags sorcs, I recently was recieving 6-7 frags and 9k+ endless so I don't really know what happened to them, it only started after the blackwood patch, their damage was much lower before.
    Edited by universal_wrath on August 22, 2021 4:41PM
  • blktauna
    blktauna
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    Where are you playing that those things aren't pulling them out. I'm getting pulled out and run down my sorcs and templars while in on major expedition and wild hunt... I'm pulled out by hurricane all the time even when I'm not close to it. I pull people out with caltrops all the time.

    I'm in no CP so maybe its a CP thing. But I get yanked out all the time .
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    blktauna wrote: »
    Where are you playing that those things aren't pulling them out. I'm getting pulled out and run down my sorcs and templars while in on major expedition and wild hunt... I'm pulled out by hurricane all the time even when I'm not close to it. I pull people out with caltrops all the time.

    I'm in no CP so maybe its a CP thing. But I get yanked out all the time .

    it's the exact same thing for me, and im in CP campaign.
    has nothing to do with CP.
    i also just like you get mowed down by sorcs and templars and dragonights and wardens while in on major expedition and wild hunt... I'm pulled out by hurricane all the time even when I'm not close to it. I pull people out with caltrops all the time.
    rest assured, that i did read your response to my feedback comment(s), i always do. and unless i respond back to your comment directly, then i will always stand by my original feedback statement.
  • MadeInVN
    MadeInVN
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    blktauna wrote: »
    MadeInVN wrote: »
    NBs need to be given better heals and cloak or any stealth mechanic needs to be deleted from the game. Too many players scared to fight and instead choose to sit in stealth waiting for you to be outnumbered then they pull the stun from stealth b.s

    Sounds more like you are afraid of the NBs. Your taste for Mano a mano is not the arbiter of how the game _must_ be played.

    I'd be happy if Cloak actually worked to just cloak. Its so inconsistent now I hardly use it.

    You honestly believe that a NB sitting in cloak is gonna scare me? The best thing they can do is annoy me when they fail their gank attempt and go back into stealth.

    Cloak is an annoyance at best, and nobody likes to be annoyed. I'd rather have NBs get better heals so they don't have to rely on cloak for their survivability, much like every other class..
  • Gilvoth
    Gilvoth
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    MadeInVN wrote: »
    blktauna wrote: »
    MadeInVN wrote: »
    NBs need to be given better heals and cloak or any stealth mechanic needs to be deleted from the game. Too many players scared to fight and instead choose to sit in stealth waiting for you to be outnumbered then they pull the stun from stealth b.s

    Sounds more like you are afraid of the NBs. Your taste for Mano a mano is not the arbiter of how the game _must_ be played.

    I'd be happy if Cloak actually worked to just cloak. Its so inconsistent now I hardly use it.

    You honestly believe that a NB sitting in cloak is gonna scare me? The best thing they can do is annoy me when they fail their gank attempt and go back into stealth.

    Cloak is an annoyance at best, and nobody likes to be annoyed. I'd rather have NBs get better heals so they don't have to rely on cloak for their survivability, much like every other class..

    we would then no longer be a stealth class, i only play stealth class in mmo.
    stealth play is fair game play.
    rest assured, that i did read your response to my feedback comment(s), i always do. and unless i respond back to your comment directly, then i will always stand by my original feedback statement.
  • MadeInVN
    MadeInVN
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    Gilvoth wrote: »
    MadeInVN wrote: »
    blktauna wrote: »
    MadeInVN wrote: »
    NBs need to be given better heals and cloak or any stealth mechanic needs to be deleted from the game. Too many players scared to fight and instead choose to sit in stealth waiting for you to be outnumbered then they pull the stun from stealth b.s

    Sounds more like you are afraid of the NBs. Your taste for Mano a mano is not the arbiter of how the game _must_ be played.

    I'd be happy if Cloak actually worked to just cloak. Its so inconsistent now I hardly use it.

    You honestly believe that a NB sitting in cloak is gonna scare me? The best thing they can do is annoy me when they fail their gank attempt and go back into stealth.

    Cloak is an annoyance at best, and nobody likes to be annoyed. I'd rather have NBs get better heals so they don't have to rely on cloak for their survivability, much like every other class..

    we would then no longer be a stealth class, i only play stealth class in mmo.
    stealth play is fair game play.

    The problem is stealth mechanic becomes difficult to balance when it actually works, especially with current stealth counters. Unless you purposely run into a large group with a bunch of AoEs, there's a high chance you will successfully escape smaller encounters.
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