Endeavors – lower and lower

whitecrow

I guess I don't have to feel as bad skipping them.

nightstrike

They can still go lower. Don't doubt the depths to which they can descend

corrosivechains

this information may be best served into M$'s hands since their policy is the one which implemented this system. I'm sure they'd take issue with Zeni if they saw this data and came to the conclusion that they're skirting around the loot box/gambling mechanic.

nightstrike

Eh, Microsoft just cares that something is in place, not that it's practical. The reality is that even with 30 per day and 150 per week, you can still grind stuff out. It just takes forever, and you won't get much per year. So they can point to it and say "see? It's possible." And that's good enough to meet the requirement.

The other thing to consider is that right now, loot boxes pay for the ongoing maintenance of the game (lackluster maintenance notwithstanding). And, I for one don't buy them. So, that means that other people are paying the lion's share of maintenance, which keeps my monthly cost at $8 (I buy yearly). That's probably a better arrangement than not having them, and making other costs go up.

Mandragora

Honestly, it was always a bit shady - it felt like introducing crown crate content to players who wouldn't look there at all, so the players could see what they could get, then they took away the very chance to get it? Or is there any other reason why they are lowering rewards? Players who wouldn't count the total sum would do it anyway and players who did will be just mad over it.

On the top of it, by doing endavours I feel less joy from the game already, I don't know where this will lead as a feature for the future. with lower sales rates in their shop lately, question is if they will even put sale on crowns during quakecon, and with their latest lack of interesting staff in their shop, where they repeat one sale over and over, it can be lower than at the start of the year. So is that intentional?

I don't think they get small amount of money from their shop without crown crates, but I think it is welcoming bonus.
I actually started to admire their marketing department, because the sales were really clever, they were even faster sometimes than devs with giving players what they want, but I guess big houses and crown crates are untouchable.

GreatGildersleeve

People actually care about them? I pay no attention at all to them… when they pop, it’s an ‘oh cool’ kinda thing. Otherwise why chase something that’s worth virtually nothing? I mean, what are the rewards, 20k of these things for X reward? Yeah no…

Kiralyn2000

GreatGildersleeve wrote: »

People actually care about them? I pay no attention at all to them… when they pop, it’s an ‘oh cool’ kinda thing. Otherwise why chase something that’s worth virtually nothing? I mean, what are the rewards, 20k of these things for X reward? Yeah no…

The rewards are the same ones that some people are willing to pay hundreds of IRL dollars for. Endeavors gives an alternate path to those rewards. So, yeah - there's people out there who actually care about them. /shrug


(personally, I'm not a fan of the glowy, showy mounts. But I do grab various mid-tier rewards from crates periodically, with gems from The Year Of Free Crates™. So having some more currency to continue that with, once the gems run out? Yeah, I care about them as well. At least enough to look at the daily list and do ones that fit my regular playstyle.)

Sylvermynx

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

GreatGildersleeve wrote: »

People actually care about them? I pay no attention at all to them… when they pop, it’s an ‘oh cool’ kinda thing. Otherwise why chase something that’s worth virtually nothing? I mean, what are the rewards, 20k of these things for X reward? Yeah no…

The rewards are the same ones that some people are willing to pay hundreds of IRL dollars for. Endeavors gives an alternate path to those rewards. So, yeah - there's people out there who actually care about them. /shrug


(personally, I'm not a fan of the glowy, showy mounts. But I do grab various mid-tier rewards from crates periodically, with gems from The Year Of Free Crates™. So having some more currency to continue that with, once the gems run out? Yeah, I care about them as well. At least enough to look at the daily list and do ones that fit my regular playstyle.)

Yeah. I'm not like salivating over this system, but when it's stuff that's easy to do around my other activities, why the hell not?

Luke_Flamesword

We have surprise with 400 seals for weekly task. Is this only one time thing? Is this effect of our whining? We will see

spartaxoxo

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Rasande_Robin wrote: »

I strongly dislike Endeavors.
I "invested" 150k crowns into a mount I really, really wanted... Now people will get it for Endeavors it almost feels like I've been scammed. If I knew this was what the future held I would never had spent 150k crowns trying to get that mount.

[snip]

How is it a scam? He paid 150k crowns to get a mount and received it. They have not deleted his mount.

To buy 21K Crowns (their "best" offer at the moment) costs £109.99 in the money of my country.

150K crowns is 7.1428... times this amount.

That comes out to a grand total of about £785.64 of monetary value converted into Crowns to buy this mount... and it was not guaranteed that the player would receive this mount even after they spent this much.

[snip]

That's called gambling. Unless you think that all games of chance are scam, that's not really reasonable.

He spent that much knowing how it works and ZOS is upfront about how it works. And he got exactly what he paid for.

A scam means they lied somehow.

[edited to remove quote]

Well... I guess withholding truths is not the same as a lie.

What truth? Odds are available.

Iluvrien

Luke_Flamesword wrote: »

We have surprise with 400 seals for weekly task. Is this only one time thing? Is this effect of our whining? We will see

Indeed we will. If it is part of a new pattern, that will become clear over time. If it is merely a distraction, that will become clear also.

JustACasualTemplar

I am waiting for the moment when the endeavors will become negative )

Darkstorne

Iluvrien wrote: »

Sunday update to the available weekly data:

Week 1 (21/06 to 27/06): 655
Week 2 (28/06 to 04/07): 635
Week 3 (05/07 to 11/07): 530
Week 4 (12/07 to 18/07): 525
Week 5 (19/07 to 25/07): 570
Week 6 (26/07 to 01/08): 530
Week 7 (02/08 to 08/08): 480
Week 8: (09/08 to 15/08): 445

Yet another record breaking low...

The trend in combined seals/day continues:

Interesting, thanks for putting these graphs together

I'd guess they're experimenting to see at which point the rewards are too low for enough people to decide the system isn't worth engaging with. They will want it to be seen as a positive system, and they want people engaging with it to provide more daily content, but with the least potential impact on Crown Store sales.

Today's values are really interesting. Massive weekly reward, but very low daily rewards. I wish we had the engagement metrics that ZOS are staring at too

Iluvrien

Darkstorne wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

Sunday update to the available weekly data:

Week 1 (21/06 to 27/06): 655
Week 2 (28/06 to 04/07): 635
Week 3 (05/07 to 11/07): 530
Week 4 (12/07 to 18/07): 525
Week 5 (19/07 to 25/07): 570
Week 6 (26/07 to 01/08): 530
Week 7 (02/08 to 08/08): 480
Week 8: (09/08 to 15/08): 445

Yet another record breaking low...

The trend in combined seals/day continues:

Interesting, thanks for putting these graphs together

I'd guess they're experimenting to see at which point the rewards are too low for enough people to decide the system isn't worth engaging with. They will want it to be seen as a positive system, and they want people engaging with it to provide more daily content, but with the least potential impact on Crown Store sales.

Today's values are really interesting. Massive weekly reward, but very low daily rewards. I wish we had the engagement metrics that ZOS are staring at too

That's one of the reasons why I held off updating until today. I wanted to see if last week really was a blip.

It was. We are back to 160 seals for the weekly endeavour. The equal lowest value we've had so far.

Here is the updated data:

Week 1 (21/06 to 27/06): 655
Week 2 (28/06 to 04/07): 635
Week 3 (05/07 to 11/07): 530
Week 4 (12/07 to 18/07): 525
Week 5 (19/07 to 25/07): 570
Week 6 (26/07 to 01/08): 530
Week 7 (02/08 to 08/08): 480
Week 8: (09/08 to 15/08): 445
Week 9: (16/08 to 22/08): 700

Week 9 was a huge total. This increase was almost entirely driven by the large weekly value. The sum of the dailies was only 300, a value that was eclipsed by every week prior to, week 7.

What this brought to the combined seals/day was a significantly more variance. I actually started to find this difficult to read (in terms of trending behaviour), so I put together a 7-day rolling average to try and remove some of the noise from the data.



That shows just how much of an impact last week had on the number of seals available.

However, today we are back to a weekly total of 160, with a daily total of 30. On that basis, that 7-day rolling average is going to start going down again real fast.

Maya_Nur

So, how long it takes to reach another 8k seals if now we already got our first 8k (were able to get at least)?

peacenote

Man, this thread bummed me out (although keep the data coming, nice job). I never looked at the numbers and just assumed that each endeavor was worth the same - the same each day, the same each week.

Extremely disappointing to think that normally I play Saturdays and Sundays and that those days might not have the same amount of reward potential as others.

I don't care enough to change my habits for it... but it's disappointing to see yet another subtle tactic to try and nudge people to log in every day as opposed to just letting them benefit when they naturally would log in. There's no good reason besides manipulation why the amount of seals you can get on Saturday needs to be lower (or different) than the amount you can get on Monday. RNG where there doesn't need to be RNG.

f047ys3v3n

Has anyone, maybe @jle30303, or @Iluvrien, continued to keep data on this? Seems like we are leveling out at 10 seals per daily and ~200 per weekly though I have not kept numbers on it. I think we had only one day in the last week at 15 seals per day and all the rest have been 10 with all this week 10 as well. I wonder if the data graphs to show an exponential decay formula leveling out asymptotic to 410 seals per week. Might be helpful know when trying to figure out exactly how long we will have between radiant apex's or what not. Hopefully, they don't introduce any 5 seals per day endeavors.

NerfSeige

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Has anyone, maybe @jle30303, or @Iluvrien, continued to keep data on this? Seems like we are leveling out at 10 seals per daily and ~200 per weekly though I have not kept numbers on it. I think we had only one day in the last week at 15 seals per day and all the rest have been 10 with all this week 10 as well. I wonder if the data graphs to show an exponential decay formula leveling out asymptotic to 410 seals per week. Might be helpful know when trying to figure out exactly how long we will have between radiant apex's or what not. Hopefully, they don't introduce any 5 seals per day endeavors.

Yes me too! I think last time it was discussed we were supposed to be able to get radiant on this batch, are we still on track?

Danikat

It does look like they're settling on 10 seals for daily and 200 for weekly endeavours. I suspect they'll continue to have the odd day which offers more because that means it's always worth checking just in case today is better (aka another incentive to log in) but I think that's going to be the most common amounts going forward.

I've not been keeping track of totals, but I've not spent any seals yet and I've got just over 10,000. I know I've missed at least 2 weekly endeavours and several days so I think it's likely some people could have enough for a radiant apex mount by the end of the current crate season.

(I'm still at the point of wanting to save them for the things I definitely want from previous crates. I want to keep at least 8,000 seals so if/when the Xanmeer crates come back I can get one of the apex mounts. Stuff in new crates would have to be perfect for my characters for me to start getting it now.)

Wolfkeks

@f047ys3v3n
There is a reddit thread that was posted 7 days ago with graphs and a doc sheet with the endeavors. Should be the most up to date thing there is:
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/rb4k4a/are_we_really_getting_fewer_seals_per_day_yep/

ApoAlaia

Danikat wrote: »

It does look like they're settling on 10 seals for daily and 200 for weekly endeavours. I suspect they'll continue to have the odd day which offers more because that means it's always worth checking just in case today is better (aka another incentive to log in) but I think that's going to be the most common amounts going forward.

I've not been keeping track of totals, but I've not spent any seals yet and I've got just over 10,000. I know I've missed at least 2 weekly endeavours and several days so I think it's likely some people could have enough for a radiant apex mount by the end of the current crate season.

(I'm still at the point of wanting to save them for the things I definitely want from previous crates. I want to keep at least 8,000 seals so if/when the Xanmeer crates come back I can get one of the apex mounts. Stuff in new crates would have to be perfect for my characters for me to start getting it now.)

According to:

https://benevolentbowd.ca/games/esotu/eso-endeavors/

We are at 13275 potential seals earned.

If accrual rate doesn't take a nosedive I should be able to acquire the radiant apex I have 'eyeballed' before the crates change.

It would have been nice to get the ram from the previous crates instead alas that was never meant to be.

We shall see.

ApoAlaia

Wolfkeks wrote: »

@f047ys3v3n
There is a reddit thread that was posted 7 days ago with graphs and a doc sheet with the endeavors. Should be the most up to date thing there is:
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/rb4k4a/are_we_really_getting_fewer_seals_per_day_yep/

Looking at those numbers it is not a stretch to infer that there is an inverse relationship between the uptake and the rewards.

At the time of release they didn't really know how popular it was going to be so they started at the [for them] 'generous' side of the curve and then gradually adjusted downward based on how many players were engaged by the activity.

Furthermore it could be a case that based on the trends their metrics show reducing the daily reward and increasing the weekly reward rates while very gradually decreasing the overall rewards yields the best impression of continuity (as in 'one is being rewarded very similarly throughout').

I have so far completed all available endeavours and only got a vague impression that the reward was getting 'stingier' over time.

If I were a player that only completes some of the dailies and mostly completes weeklies I would probably not have noticed anything.

Bradyfjord

I don't chase seals. I despise the daily quest/chore mechanic that many games have. It's not that I don't do them, but I don't focus on them.

emilyhyoyeon

ApoAlaia wrote: »

Wolfkeks wrote: »

@f047ys3v3n
There is a reddit thread that was posted 7 days ago with graphs and a doc sheet with the endeavors. Should be the most up to date thing there is:
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/rb4k4a/are_we_really_getting_fewer_seals_per_day_yep/

I have so far completed all available endeavours and only got a vague impression that the reward was getting 'stingier' over time.

If I were a player that only completes some of the dailies and mostly completes weeklies I would probably not have noticed anything.

I have also completed every endeavor until this point but to me it's been very obvious that the seals are getting less and less over time. But I agree, definitely, people who are casual with the seals would not notice

zaria

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

GreatGildersleeve wrote: »

People actually care about them? I pay no attention at all to them… when they pop, it’s an ‘oh cool’ kinda thing. Otherwise why chase something that’s worth virtually nothing? I mean, what are the rewards, 20k of these things for X reward? Yeah no…

The rewards are the same ones that some people are willing to pay hundreds of IRL dollars for. Endeavors gives an alternate path to those rewards. So, yeah - there's people out there who actually care about them. /shrug


(personally, I'm not a fan of the glowy, showy mounts. But I do grab various mid-tier rewards from crates periodically, with gems from The Year Of Free Crates™. So having some more currency to continue that with, once the gems run out? Yeah, I care about them as well. At least enough to look at the daily list and do ones that fit my regular playstyle.)

Agree with you, I'm mostly after costumes and fun emotes like the new music instruments.

I noticed the endeavors are set out the opposite way of the crowns gems itself. Unlike crown gems there stuff on higher levels become increasingly expensive as in 16-40-100-400 the endeavours goes 1000-2000-3600-8000? so they get cheaper compared to the gems. I assume the reason for this is to get people to want to hang on to them and rater buy crates for the cheap stuff negating much of the lost crate sales.

PizzaCat82

I suggested an additional way to earn seals but was shot down by like 5 pages of nope.

The consensus is that endeavors are fine, the fact that they are mindless, pitiful, and quick is what appeals to most.

They will always be bad, and we will get less and less of them each year, because they are only here so Microsoft can point to them and say "There's nothing you can't earn just by playing the game"

Even though you will miss 90% of the crate seasons saving up for anything half decent.

Sylvermynx

There's only a couple of crate seasons I have any interest in, so I'm quite happy to save SOE for a year to do what I did this Celestial season: buy 3 2k SOE items on each of my two accounts, both PC megaservers. Now I can start saving up again.

JJOtterBear

you have to remember that the point of making the Endeavor system so tedious and slow is to influence people towards the ~*convenience*` of just buying crowns. that way they technically provide a way to get those items for "free", and not get into trouble, but still manipulate the player into still spending money for a faster result.

Succuby

Orion_89 wrote: »

I almost don't see the 25 seals/day and even weekly amount is lower than 200...

I take Sugar Kake from it ... it was text - "Can be transfered to crown gems on it"

It CAN NOT !!!

I just lose 8000 endevors !!!

So smaller number or bigger number it gives, even do not care - just dissapointed !!!

Kiralyn2000

Succuby wrote: »

Orion_89 wrote: »

I almost don't see the 25 seals/day and even weekly amount is lower than 200...

I take Sugar Kake from it ... it was text - "Can be transfered to crown gems on it"

It CAN NOT !!!

I just lose 8000 endevors !!!

1) you're replying to a post from August

2) you're replying to a post that has nothing to do with your complaint (and is also outdated - the last two weeks were 250 and 200)

3) yes, of course you can't turn an Endeavor-seal Sweetroll into Gems. That would be utterly broken.


edit: just double-checked to description on that Sweetroll:
"You can convert this item into a large number of Crown Gems if you receive it from a Crown Crate."

So, yeah. Only if you get it as a random drop from a box.