Dizzying swing does too much as spammable

Marcus_Aurelius

BohnT2 wrote: »

And there is nothing subjective about what's meta, meta is Stamden and both Necros and everyone who says different is wrong.

They are so meta that 75% of players in BGs are magsorcs.
Are all player wrong then?

BohnT2

Marcus_Aurelius wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

And there is nothing subjective about what's meta, meta is Stamden and both Necros and everyone who says different is wrong.

They are so meta that 75% of players in BGs are magsorcs.
Are all player wrong then?

Yes, unless they plan on stealing kills.

FairUmbrella

BohnT2

False and truth are pretty debatable terms to use especially when its about personal opinions regarding a strong fan favorite skill.
That tend raise feelings in those that like it creating strong sense of being always right due their history with it and thus making automatically others being wrong whom challenge old status quo. Its been seen in history many times as well. Challenger will always get beaten down by those who fancy themselves as being on the “right side” or knowing better. Knowledge is never static phenomena and always reflects spirit of its specific era but as its known time will tell how things will move on or if they stay the same.

Disagreeing is never disrespectful. Having different opinions is not either. Not knowing all is not disrespectful either because you dont know it either.Having opinions that are not 100 right is not disrespectful its a very human thing.
You should take responsibility about your feelings if I stir something inside and not presume someone is disrespectful because of that.

BohnT2

FairUmbrella wrote: »

BohnT2

False and truth are pretty debatable terms to use especially when its about personal opinions regarding a strong fan favorite skill.
That tend raise feelings in those that like it creating strong sense of being always right due their history with it and thus making automatically others being wrong whom challenge old status quo. Its been seen in history many times as well. Challenger will always get beaten down by those who fancy themselves as being on the “right side” or knowing better. Knowledge is never static phenomena and always reflects spirit of its specific era but as its known time will tell how things will move on or if they stay the same.

Disagreeing is never disrespectful. Having different opinions is not either. Not knowing all is not disrespectful either because you dont know it either.Having opinions that are not 100 right is not disrespectful its a very human thing.
You should take responsibility about your feelings if I stir something inside and not presume someone is disrespectful because of that.

If you think dizzying swing is overperforming and stamden and both Necros aren't meta you're wrong.

FairUmbrella

Never denied them not being meta if I may correct but how they are being meta is very specific way only. I used warden in my experiment simply because it was available as levelled melee class instead of stam dk or others that I dont have at hand to showcase. Stam dk would have been better to make a point about dizzy since they are not meta or op in class kit sections.

If I make bow bowden or crow thats not yet being meta but when I make it brawler it becomes meta. Adding swing makes them supreme in offence. They lean on very narrow pole in order to continue being meta. Those classes would still make away if that pole is sanded a bit here and there.

BohnT2

FairUmbrella wrote: »

Never denied them not being meta if I may correct but how they are being meta is very specific way only. I used warden in my experiment simply because it was available as levelled melee class instead of stam dk or others that I dont have at hand to showcase. Stam dk would have been better to make a point about dizzy since they are not meta or op in class kit sections.

If I make bow bowden or crow thats not yet being meta but when I make it brawler it becomes meta. Adding swing makes them supreme in offence. They lean on very narrow pole in order to continue being meta. Those classes would still make away if that pole is sanded a bit here and there.

And the only reason stamdk uses dizzying swing is because they have no viable alternative, the second stamdk gets access to an instant meele spammable I'll drop dizzy swap to S&B frontbar and never put it on my bar again.

I'm just repeating myself at this point the only reason people use Dizzying is because there aren't any viable alternatives.
Nothing and I mean NOTHING is overperforming about dizzying swing in its current iteration.

ExistingRug61

BohnT2 wrote: »

FairUmbrella wrote: »

Never denied them not being meta if I may correct but how they are being meta is very specific way only. I used warden in my experiment simply because it was available as levelled melee class instead of stam dk or others that I dont have at hand to showcase. Stam dk would have been better to make a point about dizzy since they are not meta or op in class kit sections.

If I make bow bowden or crow thats not yet being meta but when I make it brawler it becomes meta. Adding swing makes them supreme in offence. They lean on very narrow pole in order to continue being meta. Those classes would still make away if that pole is sanded a bit here and there.

And the only reason stamdk uses dizzying swing is because they have no viable alternative, the second stamdk gets access to an instant meele spammable I'll drop dizzy swap to S&B frontbar and never put it on my bar again.

I'm just repeating myself at this point the only reason people use Dizzying is because there aren't any viable alternatives.
Nothing and I mean NOTHING is overperforming about dizzying swing in its current iteration.

But isn’t dizzy being viable and the others non viable simply a matter of our preferred frame of reference?

I mean let’s look at two build choices that keep being referred to:

1) A players choice of spec, ie combination of stam or mag and a class

In this choice, you assert that both necro specs and stamden are the strongest and meta. The other choices are weaker and non meta.

2) A stam players choice of spammable

In this choice, you assert that dizzy is the strongest and meta, and all others choices are weaker and non meta.

I am not trying to argue against either of these assertions.

My point is that in the case 1, you choose to use the other classes (the majority of the options but weaker choices) as the frame of reference or standard, and thus argue that stamden and necro needs nerfing.

In case 2 however, you choose to use dizzy (the stronger, but minority out of the options choice) as the frame of reference or standard to say it shouldn’t be changed.

So why the inconsistency?
While obviously there is a lot of nuance and different factors that goes into the two cases but at their core they are both cases of a set of many choices where a minority of the choices are the strongest or meta, and the remaining majority of choices is weaker but somewhat even. But your suggested approach differs. If looking at this objectively, shouldn’t we use the same approach for both cases?

BohnT2

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

FairUmbrella wrote: »

Never denied them not being meta if I may correct but how they are being meta is very specific way only. I used warden in my experiment simply because it was available as levelled melee class instead of stam dk or others that I dont have at hand to showcase. Stam dk would have been better to make a point about dizzy since they are not meta or op in class kit sections.

If I make bow bowden or crow thats not yet being meta but when I make it brawler it becomes meta. Adding swing makes them supreme in offence. They lean on very narrow pole in order to continue being meta. Those classes would still make away if that pole is sanded a bit here and there.

And the only reason stamdk uses dizzying swing is because they have no viable alternative, the second stamdk gets access to an instant meele spammable I'll drop dizzy swap to S&B frontbar and never put it on my bar again.

I'm just repeating myself at this point the only reason people use Dizzying is because there aren't any viable alternatives.
Nothing and I mean NOTHING is overperforming about dizzying swing in its current iteration.

But isn’t dizzy being viable and the others non viable simply a matter of our preferred frame of reference?

I mean let’s look at two build choices that keep being referred to:

1) A players choice of spec, ie combination of stam or mag and a class

In this choice, you assert that both necro specs and stamden are the strongest and meta. The other choices are weaker and non meta.

2) A stam players choice of spammable

In this choice, you assert that dizzy is the strongest and meta, and all others choices are weaker and non meta.

I am not trying to argue against either of these assertions.

My point is that in the case 1, you choose to use the other classes (the majority of the options but weaker choices) as the frame of reference or standard, and thus argue that stamden and necro needs nerfing.

In case 2 however, you choose to use dizzy (the stronger, but minority out of the options choice) as the frame of reference or standard to say it shouldn’t be changed.

So why the inconsistency?
While obviously there is a lot of nuance and different factors that goes into the two cases but at their core they are both cases of a set of many choices where a minority of the choices are the strongest or meta, and the remaining majority of choices is weaker but somewhat even. But your suggested approach differs. If looking at this objectively, shouldn’t we use the same approach for both cases?

I explained why Dizzy isn't overperforming using the example of neither Stamnb nor Stamplar using dizzying as their main spammable although both are using 2h as their frontbar weapon of choice.
Jabs and Suprise attack both outperform Dizzy meaning if Dizzy was overperforming those two skills would have to be OP aswell but they aren't.

Necro and Stamwarden being overperforming won't be fixed by forcing them to run a bad spammable, as magnecro proves this which doesn't have access to a good spammable (skulls are trash, Force pulse and ELE Weapon are both nothing to write home about, eviscerate deals good damage but has no other redeeming qualities and is vulnerable to the positioning desyncs)

Also discussing whole specs vs individual abilities are two completely different things, a spammable has to be viable in what it does i.e. being a spammable, if you have only 3 viable spammables in the entire game for stam (Dizzy, Jabs, Suprise attack) but a plethora of unviable ones I see no reason to base discussion on those unviable ones even if they're the majority because having unviable spammables isn't healthy for the game.

Things being unhealthy for the game is what I base my discussions on, and the balance between the old classes + magden is decent, magnb might be an outlier by being heavily underperforming and magden isn't very well designed to begin with as well as some other issues that should still be looked at (like viable spammables for both mag and stam specs).
Stamden and Necro however are unhealthy for this balance (on top of being badly designed classes) and that's why those shouldn't be used as a reference point as to what classes should look like.


One further example I'd like to use here is the existence of Executioner vs all other executes and why it's not overperforming although it's a huge reason apart from Momentum and dizzying swing why people choose to run 2h over other weapons and it's the most used execute in the entire game.
4 stamina specs have no access to a class execute ability (DK, Templar, Sorc, Necro) 2 have one (Nb and Warden)
For warden the execute is tied to an ultimate that is unreliable on top of being killable and has to be double barred ---> unusable

This leaves stamnb with Killer's Blade which outperforms executioner from 25-12% HP but only in this small section and is significantly worse if the enemy is only 0.1% above 25% HP.
This means it's overall less reliable because targets in PvP get healed and it's not to be expected for people to be below 25% hp for a whole GCD after dropping below that ---> the player will choose reliability over lethality.

The only other execute that can compete with executioner is whirling blades as it allows you to get kills on dodging targets (something people tend to do when dropping low) but whirling blades suffers from DW not having a viable spammable (outside of master DW) and is therefore the less often seen choice.

Now one could come along and say "I've been killed by executioner hundreds of times it's the only skill that kills me no matter which class I'm facing, it must be gamebreakingly op".

And this person should be laughed at because he doesn't understand why people are using it and why in this case buffing other executes is the right way to do even tho the number of bad executes heavily exceeds the amount of good executes.

The solution to this "executioner problem" would be making other weapon skill lines viable (in this case DW), making existing bad executes viable (looking at you Fire impulse) and overall adding new executes to classes who require them, which has to be determined by how a class is ment to be played and how it's designed.
Necro and warden would ruin this concept of balancing abilities as they're streamlined classes with no identity and no gameplay idea behind which would force total homogenization across all skill lines and classes to be "balanced" which is quite frankly the worst thing a game could do that doesn't offer monthly/quaterly content updates for PvP if that game intends to keep a healthy PvP population around.

master_vanargand

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

FairUmbrella wrote: »

Never denied them not being meta if I may correct but how they are being meta is very specific way only. I used warden in my experiment simply because it was available as levelled melee class instead of stam dk or others that I dont have at hand to showcase. Stam dk would have been better to make a point about dizzy since they are not meta or op in class kit sections.

If I make bow bowden or crow thats not yet being meta but when I make it brawler it becomes meta. Adding swing makes them supreme in offence. They lean on very narrow pole in order to continue being meta. Those classes would still make away if that pole is sanded a bit here and there.

And the only reason stamdk uses dizzying swing is because they have no viable alternative, the second stamdk gets access to an instant meele spammable I'll drop dizzy swap to S&B frontbar and never put it on my bar again.

I'm just repeating myself at this point the only reason people use Dizzying is because there aren't any viable alternatives.
Nothing and I mean NOTHING is overperforming about dizzying swing in its current iteration.

But isn’t dizzy being viable and the others non viable simply a matter of our preferred frame of reference?

I mean let’s look at two build choices that keep being referred to:

1) A players choice of spec, ie combination of stam or mag and a class

In this choice, you assert that both necro specs and stamden are the strongest and meta. The other choices are weaker and non meta.

2) A stam players choice of spammable

In this choice, you assert that dizzy is the strongest and meta, and all others choices are weaker and non meta.

I am not trying to argue against either of these assertions.

My point is that in the case 1, you choose to use the other classes (the majority of the options but weaker choices) as the frame of reference or standard, and thus argue that stamden and necro needs nerfing.

In case 2 however, you choose to use dizzy (the stronger, but minority out of the options choice) as the frame of reference or standard to say it shouldn’t be changed.

So why the inconsistency?
While obviously there is a lot of nuance and different factors that goes into the two cases but at their core they are both cases of a set of many choices where a minority of the choices are the strongest or meta, and the remaining majority of choices is weaker but somewhat even. But your suggested approach differs. If looking at this objectively, shouldn’t we use the same approach for both cases?

OP weapon skill + OP class + OP sets = ultra OP Builds.

FairUmbrella

My views why surprise+ jabs.

-Surprise requires flanking to capitalize its similar effects. Its a minor condition to be met. Very easy for nbs to achieve via stealth Needs often others skills chained to it to be truly effective even it has high stand alone dmg. Needs to get close which can risky because aoes but this will change soon
Often easily cc breakable if its opening skill. I have rarely seen nb to use it predominantly for dmg. They actually need to move fingers over multiple buttons
Nbs are glasscannon when played most effectively easiest to kill hardest to catch.They run away instantly if pressured Detect pots can counter flanking attempts.

Jabs have huge weaknesses over other skills and that is the channel lock. While spamming they are left open to all counter attacks if not using immovable pots. Low dmg,high pressure. Needs really to spammed hard to work. It has no hard cc included but annoying snare which is not major issue for most classes to deal with.
Trying to use it against targets with high hp,high resistance its not very great. Stam classes can just dizzy them. Templars are often not very tanky specs to begin with or if it they are those jabs lose a lot of potency very quickly becoming tickles.

Tanky and high dmg stamina builds are far harder to counter than above spammables.

BohnT2

FairUmbrella wrote: »

My views why surprise+ jabs.

-Surprise requires flanking to capitalize its similar effects. Its a minor condition to be met. Very easy for nbs to achieve via stealth Needs often others skills chained to it to be truly effective even it has high stand alone dmg. Needs to get close which can risky because aoes but this will change soon
Often easily cc breakable if its opening skill. I have rarely seen nb to use it predominantly for dmg. They actually need to move fingers over multiple buttons
Nbs are glasscannon when played most effectively easiest to kill hardest to catch.They run away instantly if pressured Detect pots can counter flanking attempts.

Jabs have huge weaknesses over other skills and that is the channel lock. While spamming they are left open to all counter attacks if not using immovable pots. Low dmg,high pressure. Needs really to spammed hard to work. It has no hard cc included but annoying snare which is not major issue for most classes to deal with.
Trying to use it against targets with high hp,high resistance its not very great. Stam classes can just dizzy them. Templars are often not very tanky specs to begin with or if it they are those jabs lose a lot of potency very quickly becoming tickles.

Tanky and high dmg stamina builds are far harder to counter than above spammables.

So people use their "suboptimal" spammables on Nb and templar for well reasons??
your argument doesn't make any sense and the fact that NB and templars are running jabs and suprise attack proves that dizyying swing isn't op.

FairUmbrella

Nbs and templars use their class skills over dizzy simply because they work well enough. Are they better than dizzy? Imo not but they are more versatile with squishy medium armor or high burst using predominantly attack sets hit n run playstyle.
I rarely see any hardcore tankplar but those who play mobility game with class skills.
I admit that dizzy is double bladed sword with certain classes it being the godmode and pretty bad with others that favor non-brawler playstyle.
If you go glasscannon it hits very hard but you die very quickly when the tank brawler spec dizzier comes at you what I have been saying all along. No one ever complained about glasscannon builds using it because they are easy to kill.

FairUmbrella

I will take a d-swing challenge. I have stam sorc available so those who know alot are welcome to give me those viable build/s for it. I go then and play it. Then I will take screenshots with the viable build and with my own without it. I will leave crystal weapon out from the viable so that its more clear cut
My prediction is that I will score alot higher with a dizzy build than without it.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

katorga wrote: »

Dizzy overloaded? Compared to what? Force Pulse?

Compared to Surprise Attack, Crystal Weapon, or the new Frost Staff clench, it doesn't do enough!

Surprise Attack is SAD compared to Dizzying Swing.

BohnT2

FairUmbrella wrote: »

Nbs and templars use their class skills over dizzy simply because they work well enough. Are they better than dizzy? Imo not but they are more versatile with medium armor playstyle. I rarely see tankplars but those who play mobility game with class skills
I admit that dizzy is double bladed sword with certain classes it being the godmode and pretty bad with others that favor non-brawler playstyle.
If you go glasscannon it hits very hard but you die very quickly when the tank brawler spec dizzier comes at you what I have been saying all along. No one ever complained about glasscannon builds using it because they are easy to kill.

You keep turning around

FairUmbrella wrote: »

I will take a d-swing challenge. I have stam sorc available so those who know alot are welcome to give me those viable build/s for it. I go then and play it. Then I will take screenshots with the viable build and with my own without it. I will leave crystal weapon out from the viable so that its more clear cut
My prediction is that I will score alot higher with a dizzy build than without it.

And that would prove exactly one thing, there are no viable spammables outside of dizzying swing.

It doesn't prove in any way that dizzying swing is overperforming.

FairUmbrella

@BohnT2
What is your definition of viable?
To me its not same as meta but anything you can have some success with whereas the meta is anything that yields awesome success.

What if I use same health tank pariah+plaque doctor,without infused trait and no dmg monster. I bet it would do the same as with warden. Easy scores even with all defensive spec and no access to skill like shalks without crystal weapon. Whole point is that dizzy can dominate pvp no matter what you use on your toon. It should be totally opposite if its fully balanced and I go full tank I should no be able to kill even most greenest of players with any class thats balance. Zero investment into something should equate zero results.

Currently dizzy has functionality that can rival an ultimate it’s basically a dawnbreaker without the dot component when its built right in a meta build and strong enough to carry silly anti-dps builds. Actually even Dp has higher cost than Dizzy and yet no one has issues with that you cant spam it all the time. Weird right?

Pvp is dying and thats because powercreep is so high that new players cant get into it before losing their heart by getting nuked as fast as in fps games. Game design should not be maximally stacked against new ppl in pvp.
Good players need them to get pvp bgs matches,1vXs etc. If only elite is left there is no good pvp community all that is left are duels at the end

BohnT2

FairUmbrella wrote: »

@BohnT2
What is your definition of viable?
To me its not same as meta but anything you can have some success with whereas the meta is anything that yields awesome success.

What if I use same health tank pariah+plaque doctor,without infused trait and no dmg monster. I bet it would do the same as with warden. Easy scores even with all defensive spec and no access to skill like shalks without crystal weapon. Whole point is that dizzy can dominate pvp no matter what you use on your toon. It should be totally opposite if its fully balanced and I go full tank I should no be able to kill even most greenest of players with any class thats balance. Zero investment into something should equate zero results.

Currently dizzy has functionality that can rival an ultimate it’s basically a dawnbreaker without the dot component when its built right in a meta build and strong enough to carry silly anti-dps builds. Actually even Dp has higher cost than Dizzy and yet no one has issues with that you cant spam it all the time. Weird right?

Pvp is dying and thats because powercreep is so high that new players cant get into it before losing their heart by getting nuked as fast as in fps games. Game design should not be maximally stacked against new ppl in pvp.
Good players need them to get pvp bgs matches,1vXs etc. If only elite is left there is no good pvp community all that is left are duels at the end

Getting kills on bad players in PvP works with every single ability, you can kill those people without slotting weapons and just punch them to death.

Just because you can get kills in BGs while using a trash build doesn't mean that an ability is overperforming, first of all in BGs you're probably not fighting people alone therefore your allies will deal damage too and it can very well be that you just steal kills on players who're outnumbered.

For a skill to be overperforming it would have to allow bad players to get kills on good players or a skill that removes counterplay from the game entirely and that's surely not the chase with Dizzy.

Your comparison to DBoS is also wrong, DBoS has a 30% higher TT, is AoE, has half the casttime, has a dot attached to it and has a Stun that works regardless of the enemy being off balanced or not.


And the reasons for PvP dying are widespread but ZOS catering to good players isn't one of them, the opposite is true ZOS catering to bad players by adding casttimes to ultimates, removing offensive CCs from classes, making skills overall weaker has taken a lot away from PvP.
Not to mention the atrocious performance.
What ZOS hasn't understood yet is that you can't cater to people who're role-playing target dummies in PvP with 20k HP low resistances who don't even dodge or block, if those people can survive than no one else will die which will result in PvP as a whole dying.

FairUmbrella

I definitely want to see you going bgs unarmed and do well in there.

I had “test bg” today with above build getting nice 1v2/3 and winning and actually others were stealing my scores so instead of 17 kills I got them as assists only and ended getting very easy 6 kills all outnumbered and I have zero 1vX talent. I had a two man team for half the match.
No ultimate,no executioner,hardly even gap closer usage,pure dum dum yolo into groups and hacking away. Almost got a five star who went 25-1but cant be sure if was my score or not. Forgot to get screen because other stuff came up to deal with. It was nice getting those easy points with most horrible play I could manage against multiple opponents.

The stun is definitely the most powerful effect dizzy swing has what I have observed today. My trash health bot wouldn’t have had any kills without it.
Ideally cc’s should all be their own utility skills that should be applied separately from damaging skills. That would be nice thing to prevent one button skills doing the heavy lifting.

Maybe we can agree to disagree in some areas and have our own reasons to like or dislike the skill.

BohnT2

FairUmbrella wrote: »

I definitely want to see you going bgs unarmed and do well in there.

I had “test bg” today with above build getting nice 1v2/3 and winning and actually others were stealing my scores so instead of 17 kills I got them as assists only and ended getting very easy 6 kills all outnumbered and I have zero 1vX talent. I had a two man team for half the match.
No ultimate,no executioner,hardly even gap closer usage,pure dum dum yolo into groups and hacking away. Almost got a five star who went 25-1but cant be sure if was my score or not. Forgot to get screen because other stuff came up to deal with. It was nice getting those easy points with most horrible play I could manage against multiple opponents.

Maybe we can agree to disagree in some areas and have our own reasons to like or dislike the skill.

No, I will never agree with someone who's biased and calls a totally balanced skill overperforming and proposes changes that would make this game even worse than it is.

FairUmbrella

We all biased in one way or the other btw your view is of that too. No human is free distortions no matter what they might tell to themselves

In case you dont know what above idiom means.
-> Definition of agree to disagree
: to agree not to argue anymore about a difference of opinion

BohnT2

FairUmbrella wrote: »

We all biased in one way or the other btw your view is of that too. No human is free distortions no matter what they might tell to themselves

In case you dont know what above idiom means.
-> Definition of agree to disagree
: to agree not to argue anymore about a difference of opinion

Your opinion is wrong and I have explained it to you multiple times why this is, at this point it's just you ignoring facts in order to support your bias.

None of your arguments go further than:
"I've been killed by it"
"I have killed people with it"
"It's better than skill X"
And each of these is flawed because you're using suboptimal builds, playing BGs where you mysteriously only 1v2 and 1v3 but your teammates still steal your kills and you compare it to skills which are commonly agreed on to be useless in PvP.

In order to prove that a skill is overperforming you'd have show that people avoid using viable skills that fill the same niche in order to use the overperforming skill or the skill allows you to get kills on players who are much more skilled than you or shut down whole playstyles or is overloaded in another way.

None of this is happening with dizzying swing as classes who have access to viable alternatives will always choose those over using dizzying swing.
Dizzying doesn't allows you to get kills on more skilled players either and it also doesn't shut down playstyles and it's not overloaded when comparing it to skills like Suprise attack or Jabs.

If you don't have any further arguments that actually prove that dizzying swing is overperforming this discussion is finished here.

FairUmbrella

@BohnT2
Thank you for participating Sir. Best regards!

Andre_Noir

BohnT2 wrote: »

It's not a powerhouse tho, the stun is tied to off balance which means people can just hold block for 7 seconds while they're OB and you'll never stun them.

What a brilliant tactic to stand still and watch how someone bring you to execute range. I'm sure that you use Wrecking Blow becasue Dizzy os so unreliable and weak

BohnT2

Andre_Noir wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

It's not a powerhouse tho, the stun is tied to off balance which means people can just hold block for 7 seconds while they're OB and you'll never stun them.

What a brilliant tactic to stand still and watch how someone bring you to execute range. I'm sure that you use Wrecking Blow becasue Dizzy os so unreliable and weak

Have you've been introduced to healing?

Andre_Noir

BohnT2 wrote: »

Andre_Noir wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

It's not a powerhouse tho, the stun is tied to off balance which means people can just hold block for 7 seconds while they're OB and you'll never stun them.

What a brilliant tactic to stand still and watch how someone bring you to execute range. I'm sure that you use Wrecking Blow becasue Dizzy os so unreliable and weak

Have you've been introduced to healing?

Oh I see your tactics is even more wonderful in a second view: first burn resources to expensive block and then to even more expensive heal because encountered potato can only smash one ability. BRAVO

Nord_Raseri

No

BohnT2

Andre_Noir wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Andre_Noir wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

It's not a powerhouse tho, the stun is tied to off balance which means people can just hold block for 7 seconds while they're OB and you'll never stun them.

What a brilliant tactic to stand still and watch how someone bring you to execute range. I'm sure that you use Wrecking Blow becasue Dizzy os so unreliable and weak

Have you've been introduced to healing?

Oh I see your tactics is even more wonderful in a second view: first burn resources to expensive block and then to even more expensive heal because encountered potato can only smash one ability. BRAVO

Well if you don't utilize the best mitigation tool in the game I can't help you.

coletas

https://ibb.co/8rp4739
Nah, working as intended I suppose XD im a heavy DS user but never seen one like this lol

Fawn4287

When I read dizzy and jabs are ‘OP’ I often think you do realise you can literally walk through the player hitting you with those abilities and they are rendered utterly useless? I would happily take a good instant cast class spammable with the same utility as surprise attack on every stam class and probably never run dizzy again, it makes for boring ridiculously easily read gameplay having to wait over 20 seconds again to just put someone off balance, not even guaranteeing a stun. I would happily any day of the week take spin to win on dual wield over 2h if the perks were even somewhat comparable.

Sanctum74

Fawn4287 wrote: »

When I read dizzy and jabs are ‘OP’ I often think you do realise you can literally walk through the player hitting you with those abilities and they are rendered utterly useless? I would happily take a good instant cast class spammable with the same utility as surprise attack on every stam class and probably never run dizzy again, it makes for boring ridiculously easily read gameplay having to wait over 20 seconds again to just put someone off balance, not even guaranteeing a stun. I would happily any day of the week take spin to win on dual wield over 2h if the perks were even somewhat comparable.

^^^This, I think the biggest problem of people that think it’s op is because they just stand there or worse they back away making it even easier to land. I usually just walk or roll dodge through them and then go on the offensive.