Why can't ESO appeal to the general TES fan or the greater gaming public?

Urvoth

ESO doesn’t do the best job at being a MMO or a TES questing game. Most of the recent quest content has been boring, lifeless, and doesn’t bring much to the table in general compared to older stuff like CWC and Summerset.

I’d rather ZOS stop baiting questers from Skyrim and start focusing on actual MMO content, which is the majority of content a lot of players do.

We haven’t gotten a new active skill line for over 50% of the game’s life at this point, and interesting concepts like spell crafting have been abandoned in favor of things like companions (which really doesn’t add much to the game for being a chapter feature).

Especially with other big MMOs bleeding players right now, ZOS should try to capture some of that audience.

colossalvoids

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

ESO seems to be the most successful MMO nobody talks about.

But when they do, it's usually not favorably. #1 reason I read again and again why people don't play is that the combat looks like crap. All our staunch defenders of animation canceling and fAsT-pAcEd CoMbAt might not be bothered by it, but the general audience is.

Funny enough the only place I hear about "how bad the combat is" are eso forums from same bunch of people over and over again.

I am getting really annoyed now at the number of times I should be attacking on the PC and just end up standing there doing nothing for some reason. Did my staff misfire? That is bad combat.

New combat system won't fix performance issues, also combat feel that most new people describe as a combat system is a different thing all together, unimpactful slashes and blows are an issue by itself in a vacuum because engine at work and lack of work put into it be it animations, SFX or else. They could "dress" any system well but deliberately refuse to because it's not first priority, it's pretty much still inevitable if they'll want eso to survive.

tripp

I started playing solely to revisit Vvarddenfell, and ESO finally allowed me to play a spellcaster without wanting to jam forks into my eyeballs, that's a win in my book. Every other installment was either a s&b with heavy armor or stealth archer. I don't mind the "skyrimization" as the addons allowed me to turn the game into Oblivion, at least UI-wise.
Still a bit upset about Cyrodiil being turned into a wartorn craphole. And Skingrad doesn't even exist. And Leyawiin costs $40.

Hurbster

Lots of good suggestions here, I hope someone higher up is taking a look.

ToxicOutrage

Most often used complaints about ESO from outsiders:

1. Floaty Combat
2. Weaving + Animation cancel

SammyKhajit

Bought Morrowind and the whole game pack. Didn’t play it for almost 12 months because this one was terrified that the whole MMO thing would be too much.

Played it, liked it and now in 2021 it’s the sole video game that Sammy plays.

Reasons like work and family commitments mean that Sammy can’t explore much, game wise. But also, it’s been really fun delving into ESO during those few years and whilst some game aspects are disappointing and need more word, this one is grateful for the continuation of the Elder Scroll universe…

master_vanargand

ESO is lacking in advertising.
ESO is not recognized in Japan.
How do you play a game that no one knows?

Its_MySniff

Simple, I log in and play. Have since Nov. 2016. Cheers.

Iluvrien

master_vanargand wrote: »

ESO is lacking in advertising.
ESO is not recognized in Japan.
How do you play a game that no one knows?

I took it with me when I moved to Japan in 2014.
I brought it back with me when I moved back in 2019.

This was not complex.

The only downsides were how the EU maintenance were in prime-time, and the ping.

Ilithyania

ADarklore wrote: »

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

It is clear that your average skyrim fan is the one and only audience ZOS is trying to attract at the moment. You can see this clearly by the direction the game's heading, braindead easy content with YA fanfic writing is pretty much 99% of what we get now.

And they are willing to sacrifice and screw over PVPers, endgame PVEers, etc to get that audience. Sure, ZOS might throw us a bone or 2 once a year or so, but casual skyrim fans are what the devs want.

But the general TES fanbase still pretends that ESO don't exist, just look at the elder scrolls subreddit (r/elderscrolls). Pretty much zero ESO coverage there.

ESO's not popular with the greater gaming population as well, having practically zero YouTube or twitch presence, etc.

What do you think ESO did wrong? ZOS tried so hard to get that audience.

Considering the huge success of ESO... I think their success comes BECAUSE they decided to focus on one group, which was already the majority of their player base. Rich says that ESO was a failure at launch, not just because of the myriad of problems, but also because the game lacked focus, lacked a true 'identity'. So with One Tamriel, they decided to focus on the players who wanted "Skyrim with friends" as that was the majority of players... and it has become extremely successful because of it.

ESO is an MMO and while sharing lore, is also quite different from traditional ES single player games. Many players don't have the time to invest in an long-lived multi-player game and as for PVP, ESO was never a PVP-focused game... as Matt Firor says, 'internally they consider ESO to be an online RPG with MMO elements'.

As for ESO not being popular with YouTube or Twitch... so what. ESO IS successful... and games that appeal to streamers tend to be very different from ESO. I've played FFXIV and have a love/hate relationship with the game... I loved the quests and storyline, but HATED being forced into group content. I believe that is why ESO is so successful with the player base it has... because they offer great storylines IMO and they can all be done solo. No stress, no drama, just playing the game at your own pace.

WELL SAID. Im glad ESO isnt a endless geargrind. So much to do and colletct, pvp pve etc. etc.

JKorr

Snowstrider wrote: »

Mitaka211 wrote: »

The formula for their expansions can be summed up to this:
1. Player goes to new zone
2. Player does boring, low efford story for skill points
3. Player gets skill points
4. Player starts getting new mythic
5. Player does the new dungeons
6. Player is bored

I am so sick and tired of the way new expansions are the same, every single time. Just do something different for once jeez. That's why there were 10 people in your new zone and that's why there will be 5 in the next. This game is not bad, it's actually pretty damn good. The problem it has is that it has been stuck in the same place for the last 5 expansions.

Agreed! They really need to come up with something new and fresh with their so called "expansions" which is pretty much the same old design over and over again and brings very little new to the game and little content and size compared to expansions in other MMOs.

Look at zones as imperial city and craglorn they at least brought some new zone design gameplay to the game.

Imperial City where a LOT of people never go because of less than fun PvP experiences? Craglorn where a LOT of people didn't go because it was an "adventure zone" that required groups? Imperial City is still not one of the most popular areas. Until Craglorn was revamped to eliminate the "requires a group" aspect, it was mostly people farming nirncrux and selling "omggottaleveltomaxinaminute" carries in Skyreach. Actually, it still is, because that is what people got used to.

Making new zones that aren't popular or fun for a lot of players isn't going to help the game. Craglorn was super popular at release, because nirnhoned traits. Once crafters had those covered, not much reason to bother. Imperial City, PvP zone so still avoided by everyone who dislikes PvP and the associated behavior. My personal opinion, Craglorn and IC aren't the best templates for new content.

BXR_Lonestar

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

It is clear that your average skyrim fan is the one and only audience ZOS is trying to attract at the moment. You can see this clearly by the direction the game's heading, braindead easy content with YA fanfic writing is pretty much 99% of what we get now.

And they are willing to sacrifice and screw over PVPers, endgame PVEers, etc to get that audience. Sure, ZOS might throw us a bone or 2 once a year or so, but casual skyrim fans are what the devs want.

But the general TES fanbase still pretends that ESO don't exist, just look at the elder scrolls subreddit (r/elderscrolls). Pretty much zero ESO coverage there.

ESO's not popular with the greater gaming population as well, having practically zero YouTube or twitch presence, etc.

What do you think ESO did wrong? ZOS tried so hard to get that audience.

Honestly, I think ESO does an incredible job of appealing to TES fans while also appealing to the general public at large. I'm a big time TES fan, having played 1000's of hours in TES4 (Oblivion) and TES5 (Skyrim) since Oblivion launched on 360 and one thing that I love about this game is the consistency between the previous games and this games. Locations, lore, and everything else about Tamriel - they've done an incredible job IMO of keeping the game consistent to the extent they are able to. I know they've had to break lore for stuff like racial passives for balancing purposes, but that is because TES games were single player and balance didn't matter, whereas ESO is multi-player and balance is more important.

In terms of screwing over PVPers and high end PVE endgamers? Well TBH, I don't think the game should be catering to EITHER of those audiences for different reasons:

1. PVPERS will never be satisfied with the state of the game. There will always be latency issues to complain about, and if they fix those, it will be balance (or lack thereof). PVP in a game like this can never truly be balanced unless they make everyone use a generic class with generic skills, etc. so that everyone is using the exact same stuff and the only thing dictating outcomes is skill. But even then, people would always find something to complain about. And doing that kind of balance would ruin the core gameplay of this game so, I hate to say it, but PVPers need to learn to accept the fact that the game is never going to be perfect in terms of balance. And it probably won't be perfect in terms of performance when you consider how many players can be in one location and fighting at one time.

2. High endgame PVEers always want a challenge, but if you continue to balance the game for them, it makes content more and more inaccessible for the average player. That is why it is a terrible idea to cater the game to high level endgame PVEers. The game should be balanced to provide a challenge (but not uncompletable challenge) to the moderate level player and if the high end endgame PVEers get bored, then perhaps its just time for them to try playing something different for a while.

Mumbles_the_Tank

Ilithyania wrote: »

WELL SAID. Im glad ESO isnt a endless geargrind. So much to do and colletct, pvp pve etc. etc.

But …
That’s precisely what it is??

Four times a year - new story/content is simply the gear delivery system. “Balance” changes that wreck currently popular sets and revive old forgotten ones happen for the same reason. Gear was the only progression for as long as CP gain was halted.

Certainly you’re not outright prohibited from participating in the narrative of new content without the newest gear like some MMOs - but don’t pretend that a substantial part of what we’re being sold on quarterly isn’t a gear grind.

Malthorne

Ilithyania wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

It is clear that your average skyrim fan is the one and only audience ZOS is trying to attract at the moment. You can see this clearly by the direction the game's heading, braindead easy content with YA fanfic writing is pretty much 99% of what we get now.

And they are willing to sacrifice and screw over PVPers, endgame PVEers, etc to get that audience. Sure, ZOS might throw us a bone or 2 once a year or so, but casual skyrim fans are what the devs want.

But the general TES fanbase still pretends that ESO don't exist, just look at the elder scrolls subreddit (r/elderscrolls). Pretty much zero ESO coverage there.

ESO's not popular with the greater gaming population as well, having practically zero YouTube or twitch presence, etc.

What do you think ESO did wrong? ZOS tried so hard to get that audience.

Considering the huge success of ESO... I think their success comes BECAUSE they decided to focus on one group, which was already the majority of their player base. Rich says that ESO was a failure at launch, not just because of the myriad of problems, but also because the game lacked focus, lacked a true 'identity'. So with One Tamriel, they decided to focus on the players who wanted "Skyrim with friends" as that was the majority of players... and it has become extremely successful because of it.

ESO is an MMO and while sharing lore, is also quite different from traditional ES single player games. Many players don't have the time to invest in an long-lived multi-player game and as for PVP, ESO was never a PVP-focused game... as Matt Firor says, 'internally they consider ESO to be an online RPG with MMO elements'.

As for ESO not being popular with YouTube or Twitch... so what. ESO IS successful... and games that appeal to streamers tend to be very different from ESO. I've played FFXIV and have a love/hate relationship with the game... I loved the quests and storyline, but HATED being forced into group content. I believe that is why ESO is so successful with the player base it has... because they offer great storylines IMO and they can all be done solo. No stress, no drama, just playing the game at your own pace.

WELL SAID. Im glad ESO isnt a endless geargrind. So much to do and colletct, pvp pve etc. etc.

It seems you haven’t had the pleasure of trying to grind weapons for in demand sets such as BSW, Medusa, Tzogvin, vMA, Vateshran, vDSA etc etc

Folkb

JKorr wrote: »

Snowstrider wrote: »

Mitaka211 wrote: »

The formula for their expansions can be summed up to this:
1. Player goes to new zone
2. Player does boring, low efford story for skill points
3. Player gets skill points
4. Player starts getting new mythic
5. Player does the new dungeons
6. Player is bored

I am so sick and tired of the way new expansions are the same, every single time. Just do something different for once jeez. That's why there were 10 people in your new zone and that's why there will be 5 in the next. This game is not bad, it's actually pretty damn good. The problem it has is that it has been stuck in the same place for the last 5 expansions.

Agreed! They really need to come up with something new and fresh with their so called "expansions" which is pretty much the same old design over and over again and brings very little new to the game and little content and size compared to expansions in other MMOs.

Look at zones as imperial city and craglorn they at least brought some new zone design gameplay to the game.

Imperial City where a LOT of people never go because of less than fun PvP experiences? Craglorn where a LOT of people didn't go because it was an "adventure zone" that required groups? Imperial City is still not one of the most popular areas. Until Craglorn was revamped to eliminate the "requires a group" aspect, it was mostly people farming nirncrux and selling "omggottaleveltomaxinaminute" carries in Skyreach. Actually, it still is, because that is what people got used to.

Making new zones that aren't popular or fun for a lot of players isn't going to help the game. Craglorn was super popular at release, because nirnhoned traits. Once crafters had those covered, not much reason to bother. Imperial City, PvP zone so still avoided by everyone who dislikes PvP and the associated behavior. My personal opinion, Craglorn and IC aren't the best templates for new content.

Speaking of craglorn I absolutely loathed it because it requires a group. But since coming back a couple of months ago and doing craglorn again I had fun since I guess they made the zone easier.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo

Destai wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Well, when ESO first came out I found it to be rather unappealing I must say; graphically and the physics.
Over time I became hooked, but that first impression almost had me out.

The game was also very buggy in the beginning and also had a fair few cheaters.

It's our producer's first game after all and it's an online game, making it a rather difficult product to maintain and sell.
I think they've given it all they've got and unfortunately I don't think we are a big enough community for them to take a step back and say: 'Ok, we are going to overhaul all the issues in this game and give you a working and stable product'

I agree with OP; They are certainly trying to get those last fans in, but they also might get frustrated with the game too, so..double edged sword when you think about future projects.

To resume: Marketing is a bit ambiguous here and the game is struggling to find an identity..some say it's an MMO (and there are obvious traits that validate this), whilst others and the producer say it's an Online RPG. They have to choose one and rework in this direction, risky sure, but it would probably pay off to get those last fans they desire.

PS: I'm still a firm believer in that 'less is more' - Quality over quantity.

This game's beginning was super rocky because of their original product direction they were amply advised against. I remember being in an AMA with ZOS leadership during beta IIRC and it was staggering how beholden they were to that design. A lot of people told them, and expected, this to be to Skyrim online.

Thankfully, they course corrected and gave us One Tamriel.

And yes, the initial impressions are a bit rough. People've been hammering about the new player experience for years, and for a studio who's always trying to get new players, I don't think they've given as much attention to it as they should. We did get the new tutorial, but I don't feel like it really address the core barriers to getting into the game.

People have to wait an awfully long time to get a sense of a character or build. They then have to wait 60 days before their horse runs at full speed. They then have to juggle all the junk, treasure, crafting materials, sets, surveys, maps, and gods know what else the moment they start the game. It's a lot.

There's a lot of MMO trappings in this game, so I found it disingenuous for them to label it anything but. Millions of people play it online together. There's dungeons and trials, there's guilds. Seems like an MMO to me. Any other label just feels like unnecessary wordplay to me. Meanwhile, explain why two dungeons are $30 to your average player when most other MMOs put them in the yearly expansion. (Sidebar, I love the yearly packages they've introduced to the store)

And like you said, the performance issues are a hinderance to an otherwise deeply rewarding game. Someone gets into the game, sees it through the rocky start, and then deals with frequent performance issues. The whole PS5 situation right now is a great example. A new console just came out and people wanted to see Tamriel but are instead with game-breaking issues. Many people who got the PS5 version have MAJOR issues with it - they can't zone without crashes. I'm one of them. I'm playing this on the PS4 version until that's sorted out. On my PS5.

I'll stay because I love the game, but I simply can't sell any gaming friend on this. It's a shame really. I've tried but for so many it's a hard pass.

My real life friends left the game in year one, I couldn't get them to appreciate it and I think it's the MMO side of the game that showed them the door. I don't mind it myself personally, but I do agree that there are indeed trappings (grind/regrind this now/this skill line can be purchased or you can grind for a week) and I'm not too happy with that direction.

When I first started I enjoyed the team play aspect, the original main quest and some guild quests, the raids, learning PvP, but as we continue down the line I just feel that content has been of lesser quality and bugs aren't being fixed appropriately.

It's a good package in all, but it's too vast and not in touch with half of the community.

Iluvrien

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Honestly, I think ESO does an incredible job of appealing to TES fans while also appealing to the general public at large. I'm a big time TES fan, having played 1000's of hours in TES4 (Oblivion) and TES5 (Skyrim) since Oblivion launched on 360 and one thing that I love about this game is the consistency between the previous games and this games. Locations, lore, and everything else about Tamriel - they've done an incredible job IMO of keeping the game consistent to the extent they are able to. I know they've had to break lore for stuff like racial passives for balancing purposes, but that is because TES games were single player and balance didn't matter, whereas ESO is multi-player and balance is more important.

<snip for not dealing with PvP or endgame PvE>

I feel like I have noticed a pattern in responses similar to this one over the years, but I am wary of my confirmation bias.

I feel like I tend to see players who started with Oblivion and (especially) Skyrim being generally happier with the way that ZOS has handled the Single-Player to MMO conversion, and the continuity of Lore, than those who started with Morrowind.

I can't speak to Arena, or Daggerfall, (or Redguard, and Battlespire) as I have yet to play them.

My own experience is that Oblivion (TES4) felt like a simplified Morrowind (TES3), Skyrim (TES5) felt like a simplified Oblivion, and ESO feels like a simplified Skyrim.

I would be very interested in hearing the opinions of people who:
1) started with TES3 and disagree with the progression I outlined.
2) started with TES4 or TES5 and believe that ZOS handled the conversion without abrogating the lore, or simplifying the mechanics of the world*.

[*this means "at all", not "within reasonable bounds for an MMO"]

fizl101

Iluvrien wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Honestly, I think ESO does an incredible job of appealing to TES fans while also appealing to the general public at large. I'm a big time TES fan, having played 1000's of hours in TES4 (Oblivion) and TES5 (Skyrim) since Oblivion launched on 360 and one thing that I love about this game is the consistency between the previous games and this games. Locations, lore, and everything else about Tamriel - they've done an incredible job IMO of keeping the game consistent to the extent they are able to. I know they've had to break lore for stuff like racial passives for balancing purposes, but that is because TES games were single player and balance didn't matter, whereas ESO is multi-player and balance is more important.

<snip for not dealing with PvP or endgame PvE>

I feel like I have noticed a pattern in responses similar to this one over the years, but I am wary of my confirmation bias.

I feel like I tend to see players who started with Oblivion and (especially) Skyrim being generally happier with the way that ZOS has handled the Single-Player to MMO conversion, and the continuity of Lore, than those who started with Morrowind.

I can't speak to Arena, or Daggerfall, (or Redguard, and Battlespire) as I have yet to play them.

My own experience is that Oblivion (TES4) felt like a simplified Morrowind (TES3), Skyrim (TES5) felt like a simplified Oblivion, and ESO feels like a simplified Skyrim.

I would be very interested in hearing the opinions of people who:
1) started with TES3 and disagree with the progression I outlined.
2) started with TES4 or TES5 and believe that ZOS handled the conversion without abrogating the lore, or simplifying the mechanics of the world*.

[*this means "at all", not "within reasonable bounds for an MMO"]

I'm showing my age here, as I started with Arena when it came out (I can still recognise the wolf sound and door sound at 100 paces). I am happy with ESO and how TES has simplified over the years. I do think it was a certain mindset that enjoyed the long text of the earlier games, and that QOL features like map pointers on the compass etc meant there was less need for that. It also made it easier to play without a notepad to keep notes of all of the directions and so on.

I think if ESO had gone the route of Morrowind etc, it would have had a much smaller user base than it does now, as it allows for the player that dips in and out of the game, as well as those who play daily and aim to be the best they can be

Iccotak

The vast majority of people who came from playing Skyrim - which is why the thing that people hold against ESO again-and again-and-again-and-again is that it is not "Skyrim 2.0 with Friends" - which is fair because that is what people wanted when the game launched

that was the overwhelming feedback, from critics & players, and so ZOS has been trying to fit the game into that demand.

To make the mmo FEEL like playing an Elder Scrolls game that is online.

But that will always be stifled by the class system, animations, engine, the mmo combat that was refitted into an action combat system, etc.

As far as we can tell - It’s always going to be affected by its WoW ripoff past.

Real picture of Early ESO...


Talked about this in this post: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/561077/how-to-make-eso-feel-more-like-an-elder-scrolls-game/p1

Iccotak

tonyblack wrote: »

I came to eso after skyrim hoping for engaging solo content but stayed for pvp, dungeons and trials. Overland in this game offers no challenge, it’s not engaging or rewarding and it’s not even repetitive for most parts. Skyrim has difficulty slider but eso default on novice and to have some solo challenge in this game you can do 2 arenas or solo content intended for groups. I just can’t enjoy the story if everything pose no threat and balanced around new lvl 10 players with mismatched gear and wrong skills.

Skyrim and fallout 4 on highest difficulty was really fun (as long you don’t abuse console commands), required at least some thinking and i could actually immerse myself to the quests. In eso i just read dialog, go to point a, oneshot any enemy on the way, return to read more dialog, go to point b, instakill more mobs and boss, return to npc and claim tiny amount of gold and useless piece of gear.

Malpheus_Prime

Skyrim was widely popular, the pay to play eso stuff is only popular with the diehards. It's as simple as that. Most of the mainstream skyrim, or casual skyrim players don't bother with MMO's and prefer to wait on eso 6.

I bought Skyrim at least six times before trying eso.

Ippokrates

Iluvrien wrote: »

BXR_Lonestar wrote: »

Honestly, I think ESO does an incredible job of appealing to TES fans while also appealing to the general public at large. I'm a big time TES fan, having played 1000's of hours in TES4 (Oblivion) and TES5 (Skyrim) since Oblivion launched on 360 and one thing that I love about this game is the consistency between the previous games and this games. Locations, lore, and everything else about Tamriel - they've done an incredible job IMO of keeping the game consistent to the extent they are able to. I know they've had to break lore for stuff like racial passives for balancing purposes, but that is because TES games were single player and balance didn't matter, whereas ESO is multi-player and balance is more important.

<snip for not dealing with PvP or endgame PvE>

I feel like I have noticed a pattern in responses similar to this one over the years, but I am wary of my confirmation bias.

I feel like I tend to see players who started with Oblivion and (especially) Skyrim being generally happier with the way that ZOS has handled the Single-Player to MMO conversion, and the continuity of Lore, than those who started with Morrowind.

I can't speak to Arena, or Daggerfall, (or Redguard, and Battlespire) as I have yet to play them.

My own experience is that Oblivion (TES4) felt like a simplified Morrowind (TES3), Skyrim (TES5) felt like a simplified Oblivion, and ESO feels like a simplified Skyrim.

I would be very interested in hearing the opinions of people who:
1) started with TES3 and disagree with the progression I outlined.
2) started with TES4 or TES5 and believe that ZOS handled the conversion without abrogating the lore, or simplifying the mechanics of the world*.

[*this means "at all", not "within reasonable bounds for an MMO"]

I have started with Morrowind in the early 2000s, then Skyrim two years ago, Oblivion a year ago and little less than year, ESO - and from all those games, ESO was the most complicated in terms of learning effective Gameplay.

Maybe because I am usually starting each rpg game from cummulating skills & equipment, so later I can just roll through everything game can throw at me - which works very well, especially in Skyrim.

But with ESO mechanics... That was a lot to learn.

Castagere

FlopsyPrince wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

ESO seems to be the most successful MMO nobody talks about.

But when they do, it's usually not favorably. #1 reason I read again and again why people don't play is that the combat looks like crap. All our staunch defenders of animation canceling and fAsT-pAcEd CoMbAt might not be bothered by it, but the general audience is.

Funny enough the only place I hear about "how bad the combat is" are eso forums from same bunch of people over and over again.

I am getting really annoyed now at the number of times I should be attacking on the PC and just end up standing there doing nothing for some reason. Did my staff misfire? That is bad combat.

Wow, this has never happened to me. What are your PC specs? It sounds like you are lagging too. Every time I hear someone say the combat sucks when asked why they give the same copy and paste answer.

waterfairy

They failed at combat which is surprisingly worse then Skyrim. It's all about constant skills and animation cancel light attacks in between with ridiculous wind up heavy attacks...it should've been focused around better light/heavy attack combos with skills peppered in as strong finishers or moves mixed in between light/heavy combos.
Better way- light attack, different light attack, block/dodge, heavy attack, special ability- dead

current way- ability, light attack, ability, light attack, ultimate, light attack, ability, ability- dead

Sorbin

Why spend the time creating balanced, engaging content when the same boring, copy and paste overland zones sell every year? Why bother writing a unique story or fleshing out the lore in meaningful ways when you can sell "Vestige teams up with intrepid young galpal who thwarts obviously evil traitor in service to dragon/Daedric prince/generic fantasy demigod on the way to realizing her true destiny" three years in a row? Why fix your PvP when you can simply take advantage of the convenient fact that there's almost no competition on the market in the genre (though this is changing)?

The game is a money machine, aggressively monetized in every conceivable way: a buy to play game, a premium subscription, tons of quality of life roadblocks and timegates that can be passed for cash, cosmetics ranging up to $100 USD, and on top of all that, lootboxes. And the people who want to play Second Life: Tamriel will happily dip into each and every one of them. So why bother spending more time, money and resources on making a decent game when selling a vaguely Elder Scrolls-skinned chatroom is keeping the lights on so well?

I would suggest that having a real vision and creating bold, engaging content would ultimately be better for the long-term health of the game, retaining current players more thoroughly and possibly bringing in newer players. But ZOS has been taking the path of least resistance for a long time now.

Destai

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Destai wrote: »

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Well, when ESO first came out I found it to be rather unappealing I must say; graphically and the physics.
Over time I became hooked, but that first impression almost had me out.

The game was also very buggy in the beginning and also had a fair few cheaters.

It's our producer's first game after all and it's an online game, making it a rather difficult product to maintain and sell.
I think they've given it all they've got and unfortunately I don't think we are a big enough community for them to take a step back and say: 'Ok, we are going to overhaul all the issues in this game and give you a working and stable product'

I agree with OP; They are certainly trying to get those last fans in, but they also might get frustrated with the game too, so..double edged sword when you think about future projects.

To resume: Marketing is a bit ambiguous here and the game is struggling to find an identity..some say it's an MMO (and there are obvious traits that validate this), whilst others and the producer say it's an Online RPG. They have to choose one and rework in this direction, risky sure, but it would probably pay off to get those last fans they desire.

PS: I'm still a firm believer in that 'less is more' - Quality over quantity.

This game's beginning was super rocky because of their original product direction they were amply advised against. I remember being in an AMA with ZOS leadership during beta IIRC and it was staggering how beholden they were to that design. A lot of people told them, and expected, this to be to Skyrim online.

Thankfully, they course corrected and gave us One Tamriel.

And yes, the initial impressions are a bit rough. People've been hammering about the new player experience for years, and for a studio who's always trying to get new players, I don't think they've given as much attention to it as they should. We did get the new tutorial, but I don't feel like it really address the core barriers to getting into the game.

People have to wait an awfully long time to get a sense of a character or build. They then have to wait 60 days before their horse runs at full speed. They then have to juggle all the junk, treasure, crafting materials, sets, surveys, maps, and gods know what else the moment they start the game. It's a lot.

There's a lot of MMO trappings in this game, so I found it disingenuous for them to label it anything but. Millions of people play it online together. There's dungeons and trials, there's guilds. Seems like an MMO to me. Any other label just feels like unnecessary wordplay to me. Meanwhile, explain why two dungeons are $30 to your average player when most other MMOs put them in the yearly expansion. (Sidebar, I love the yearly packages they've introduced to the store)

And like you said, the performance issues are a hinderance to an otherwise deeply rewarding game. Someone gets into the game, sees it through the rocky start, and then deals with frequent performance issues. The whole PS5 situation right now is a great example. A new console just came out and people wanted to see Tamriel but are instead with game-breaking issues. Many people who got the PS5 version have MAJOR issues with it - they can't zone without crashes. I'm one of them. I'm playing this on the PS4 version until that's sorted out. On my PS5.

I'll stay because I love the game, but I simply can't sell any gaming friend on this. It's a shame really. I've tried but for so many it's a hard pass.

My real life friends left the game in year one, I couldn't get them to appreciate it and I think it's the MMO side of the game that showed them the door. I don't mind it myself personally, but I do agree that there are indeed trappings (grind/regrind this now/this skill line can be purchased or you can grind for a week) and I'm not too happy with that direction.

When I first started I enjoyed the team play aspect, the original main quest and some guild quests, the raids, learning PvP, but as we continue down the line I just feel that content has been of lesser quality and bugs aren't being fixed appropriately.

It's a good package in all, but it's too vast and not in touch with half of the community.

It is a good package but I agree, there needs to be a better focus on fixing bugs and community engagement. It sounds like they're trying to be better about the latter, but the tone this studio set has always been one of talking to their clients rather than talking with in my experience.

I'd argue the newer content is better though. I've been doing skyshard hunts on old toons and man, the base game is starting to show its age. The moment you step out of it, like to Morrowind even, the game is noticeably prettier. I'd hope the base game gets an overhaul, along with some of the older systems I'm one to harp on about. They've introduced some great systems in the last few years - zone guide, antiquities, sticker book, and the outfit system. I just hope there's a continued focus on QoL as this game ages; it's a shame the game is still missing some basic stuff loadouts though.

I'd like to believe they're always trying to improve the game.

ThePianist

Multiple big names have tried to promote ESO...Shroud, Summit1g...

I don't know about pve but this is my opinion on pvp.

From the perspective of the general public, Summit basically explained why the game's combat sucks, especially pvp. ESO pvp will never be balanced because zos always puts a catch 22, like slottable cp, and bad rng into farming item sets (like masters dual weild).

If the 1vx community want pvp to be competitive. This game is going to have to cater to casuals and actually have real balance. Just like in call of duty where 100,000 other people who are using the same gun as I am, are using the same gun with the same stats.

WOW had a pvp competition where real money was put in the line, and other mmo's too. When was the last time ESO had a pvp competition where real money was put in the line? Ill wait. The same 1vx streamers who stream everynight and have the same 60 people watching, have dreams of being an "ESO Athelete".

I get the fact that pvp requires skill, and you have to put time and effort into developing that skill. There's a lot of very competitive pvp'ers who give it all they got for nothing, there's no money in the line lol, not even clout. Eso casual pvp also doesn't feel good. You have ESO Atheletes that call anything that moves in Cyrodiil, a zergling or a bot. Yall can have it, the only reason why I log into Cyrodiil is because of the large battles.

I wouldn't invite my drunk friends to come sit on the couch and watch me play pvp tbh.

tripp

Some people fail to realize that ESO is a MMO first and a TES game second, and as such carries all the benefits and limitations the former brings to the table, latency being the most prominent negative.

Mumbles_the_Tank wrote: »

But …
That’s precisely what it is??
Certainly you’re not outright prohibited from participating in the narrative of new content without the newest gear like some MMOs - but don’t pretend that a substantial part of what we’re being sold on quarterly isn’t a gear grind.

You clearly haven't played any of the Korean MMOs out there. Compared to them, ESO's "grind" is tame as a sedated puppy, it basically does not exist. Over there, your gear has a limited lifespan of roughly 4 months, after which it becomes obsolete and your progress is essentially wiped, forcing you to start from scratch. Chances of upgrading your equipment hover between 15 and 30%, cannot be increased in any way and cost exorbitant amounts of gold and materials, latter of which drop in incredibly scarce quantities in endgame dungeons (AND NOWHERE ELSE), or can be purchased via lootboxes from the ingame shop. Dungeons also have limited daily entries, sometimes literally allowing you to do them once a day. If you fail to upgrade a piece of gear it might downgrade, break or disappear, which can be prevented using incredibly weak and overpriced 30% chance scrolls, or the guaranteed ones from the cash shop. Top tier "enhancements" (their version of our glyphs) have a limited duration of 7/30 REAL days, and cost several million per piece.
The Sticker Book's sole existence almost completely wiped what little grind existed in this game. ESO doesn't have it unless you're in the top 0.0001% of people battling for the highest leaderboard positions, and I HIGHLY doubt this applies to people on this forum. It's all in your mind, which has likely been poisoned by "these" people dictating what is meta and what is not. You don't need that harpooner antiquity. You didn't need thrassians. You've been TOLD you needed them to stay relevant. You don't. ESO is not a serious, tight, hardcore, competitive game - something it owes to its lineage. It has a soul. If you want to devote your time to seeing increasingly huge numbers in the shortest time possible, just open an Excel spreadsheet or find a different MMO. I feel genuinely bad for the people who disregard everything ESO has to offer in favor of mediocre content that accounts for maybe tenth of a percent of the game. Also standing next to a Nirnroot in Shadowfen for 8 hours, hoping for a lead drop or whatever, Jesus Rollerblading Christ.

francesinhalover

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

It is clear that your average skyrim fan is the one and only audience ZOS is trying to attract at the moment. You can see this clearly by the direction the game's heading, braindead easy content with YA fanfic writing is pretty much 99% of what we get now.

And they are willing to sacrifice and screw over PVPers, endgame PVEers, etc to get that audience. Sure, ZOS might throw us a bone or 2 once a year or so, but casual skyrim fans are what the devs want.

But the general TES fanbase still pretends that ESO don't exist, just look at the elder scrolls subreddit (r/elderscrolls). Pretty much zero ESO coverage there.

ESO's not popular with the greater gaming population as well, having practically zero YouTube or twitch presence, etc.

What do you think ESO did wrong? ZOS tried so hard to get that audience.

Teslore Youtubers Seem to insist eso either doesn't being anything important lore wise , or isn't canonical.
I mean it's understandable non of the blizzard story devs work on eso.
The main game is a forced online, and people play Elder scrolls because they enjoy the deep role play the games have.

The combat gameplay is kind of boring on eso. Citys barely have npcs and are small etc. plus players, it's immersion breaking.
People can't just max out something fast and focus on story, eso has lvling up and you need a big ammount of time before you can even craft armor. The fact most world bosses require other players to help you also kills the power fantasy immersion.

Now it's hard to say the majority of es fans don't like eso, i mean didn't eso have like 1 million players + or at least registered users?

Other elder scrolls games also have speedruns, and mods, adult mods etc.

grizzledcroc

Imagine calling the cities in this game small when most are on pare with at least skyrims lol . Markarths 1 to 1 lol with more buildings