Frost damage for Warden

K9002

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

something huge I never see people mention/care about is that the +8% (10%+ on PTS) from fire staff applies to LIGHT ATTACKS as well. Like please just rework this passive already PLEASE I don't understand

Not just light attacks. It affects damage enchantments as well.

Alucardo

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Changing Shalks' damage type to frost may be thematic, but it won't actually do much for DPS.

It would if you were running a frost build, ie: Frostbite, elemental succession, Ysgramor (for some reason)

ESO_Nightingale

Alucardo wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Changing Shalks' damage type to frost may be thematic, but it won't actually do much for DPS.

It would if you were running a frost build, ie: Frostbite, elemental succession, Ysgramor (for some reason)

yeah, it improves those sets by giving them more to work with.

ESO_Nightingale

K9002 wrote: »

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

something huge I never see people mention/care about is that the +8% (10%+ on PTS) from fire staff applies to LIGHT ATTACKS as well. Like please just rework this passive already PLEASE I don't understand

Not just light attacks. It affects damage enchantments as well.

applies to everything that is single target, proc sets too.

Phaedryn

I made a Frost Warden right after Blackwood went live, using Frostbite, Diamond's Victory, with Vateshran and Maelstrom Ice Staves. I am excited to see where this goes.

ESO_Nightingale

Phaedryn wrote: »

I made a Frost Warden right after Blackwood went live, using Frostbite, Diamond's Victory, with Vateshran and Maelstrom Ice Staves. I am excited to see where this goes.

Hopefully it just gets better from here!

Milli_Rabbit

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Oakiyo wrote: »

I'm very exited for the changes on clench. Finally a spamable for frost users.

Since the goal here is to give some love to frost DD's, could you now pls switch the offensive abilities of warden to frost damage ? This class is supposed to the frost class, yet you have only 2 skills (3 with the ult) that deals frost damages. It would make sense to be able to fully build into frost damage on this class. Dk's already have a full fire damage kit. Why wardens wouldn't ?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Can we add sorcs being the shock mage to this request? They have the same issue as Warden's in that regard.

They should really update all classes to have a major focus on the following to distinguish better build diversity:

• DK = Fire/Poison
• Sorc = Shock/Physical
• Templar = Magic/Physical
• NB = Magic/Disease
• Necro = Elementalist = Flame/Frost/Shock/Disease/Poison
• Warden = Frost/Bleed

I would swap NB to have bleed and Warden to have Disease. Bleed = daggers. Disease = fetchers, bears, cliff racers, other creatures.

YandereGirlfriend

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Oakiyo wrote: »

I'm very exited for the changes on clench. Finally a spamable for frost users.

Since the goal here is to give some love to frost DD's, could you now pls switch the offensive abilities of warden to frost damage ? This class is supposed to the frost class, yet you have only 2 skills (3 with the ult) that deals frost damages. It would make sense to be able to fully build into frost damage on this class. Dk's already have a full fire damage kit. Why wardens wouldn't ?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Can we add sorcs being the shock mage to this request? They have the same issue as Warden's in that regard.

They should really update all classes to have a major focus on the following to distinguish better build diversity:

• DK = Fire/Poison
• Sorc = Shock/Physical
• Templar = Magic/Physical
• NB = Magic/Disease
• Necro = Elementalist = Flame/Frost/Shock/Disease/Poison
• Warden = Frost/Bleed

I would swap NB to have bleed and Warden to have Disease. Bleed = daggers. Disease = fetchers, bears, cliff racers, other creatures.

Bleed is more for the primal nature/savage beast aspect of the stamDen, which I think makes quite good sense.

ESO_Nightingale

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Oakiyo wrote: »

I'm very exited for the changes on clench. Finally a spamable for frost users.

Since the goal here is to give some love to frost DD's, could you now pls switch the offensive abilities of warden to frost damage ? This class is supposed to the frost class, yet you have only 2 skills (3 with the ult) that deals frost damages. It would make sense to be able to fully build into frost damage on this class. Dk's already have a full fire damage kit. Why wardens wouldn't ?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Can we add sorcs being the shock mage to this request? They have the same issue as Warden's in that regard.

They should really update all classes to have a major focus on the following to distinguish better build diversity:

• DK = Fire/Poison
• Sorc = Shock/Physical
• Templar = Magic/Physical
• NB = Magic/Disease
• Necro = Elementalist = Flame/Frost/Shock/Disease/Poison
• Warden = Frost/Bleed

I would swap NB to have bleed and Warden to have Disease. Bleed = daggers. Disease = fetchers, bears, cliff racers, other creatures.

Bleed is more for the primal nature/savage beast aspect of the stamDen, which I think makes quite good sense.

It's also the only class that has bleeds on its class skills at the moment

Sephyr

Has there been any damage statistics that came out with the recent changes yet? This may actually get me to finally make a Warden again.

ESO_Nightingale

Sephyr wrote: »

Has there been any damage statistics that came out with the recent changes yet? This may actually get me to finally make a Warden again.

Frost reach is a massive damage improvement. It's direct hit is usually around the 2nd or 3rd best dmg% on parses that have been done with it the DoT is a lot lower.

ESO_Nightingale

Milli_Rabbit wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Oakiyo wrote: »

I'm very exited for the changes on clench. Finally a spamable for frost users.

Since the goal here is to give some love to frost DD's, could you now pls switch the offensive abilities of warden to frost damage ? This class is supposed to the frost class, yet you have only 2 skills (3 with the ult) that deals frost damages. It would make sense to be able to fully build into frost damage on this class. Dk's already have a full fire damage kit. Why wardens wouldn't ?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Can we add sorcs being the shock mage to this request? They have the same issue as Warden's in that regard.

They should really update all classes to have a major focus on the following to distinguish better build diversity:

• DK = Fire/Poison
• Sorc = Shock/Physical
• Templar = Magic/Physical
• NB = Magic/Disease
• Necro = Elementalist = Flame/Frost/Shock/Disease/Poison
• Warden = Frost/Bleed

I would swap NB to have bleed and Warden to have Disease. Bleed = daggers. Disease = fetchers, bears, cliff racers, other creatures.

honestly i think the list is good as is.

ESO_Nightingale

RandomKodiak wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

it's looking like running MS + masters with no monster helm is doing fairly good damage when you use barbed trap for minor force. since if you used medusa you'd be required to drop 2 pieces of light armor for heavy.

Yep I didn't run trap, like I said just a couple of quick parses figured trap would make a difference just didn't have the time. I am glad they made this change frost warden is still not "Meta" but in a much better place now and that is great.

Yeah. I'll definitely be trying out more types of frostden builds. But as far as ive seen, master frost reach seems to be better than other stuff I've tried. It'll be a bit awkward to get used to barbed trap but it is what it is i guess.

SidraWillowsky

Sephyr wrote: »

Has there been any damage statistics that came out with the recent changes yet? This may actually get me to finally make a Warden again.

If you're just looking for a hard-hitting class, it's doing really well right now and there's no reason to think things will go anywhere up from here in this next patch. If you look at ESO Logs, there are quite a few magwardens at the top of the DPS pile, though I think they're still fairly under-played given how strong they are.

Anyway, I think it's def worth it to make one. It's going to be a lot of fun to play next patch!

ESO_Nightingale

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

Sephyr wrote: »

Has there been any damage statistics that came out with the recent changes yet? This may actually get me to finally make a Warden again.

If you're just looking for a hard-hitting class, it's doing really well right now and there's no reason to think things will go anywhere up from here in this next patch. If you look at ESO Logs, there are quite a few magwardens at the top of the DPS pile, though I think they're still fairly under-played given how strong they are.

Anyway, I think it's def worth it to make one. It's going to be a lot of fun to play next patch!

yeah. All i can hope is that frostden hits hard enough to become a genuinely viable damage dealer so much so that you wouldn't worry about giving that job to a tank or healer.

WillyOneBlood

Why didn't they make the bear ulti a polar bear? A polar bear that does frost damage that scales off magicka/spell damage. Have the other morph a grizzly bear that scales off stamina/weapon damage. If the Warden is supposed to be the frost damage class, same way Sorcs are shock, DK's are fire, NB are magic, then why make all their damage tree do magick damage, makes no sense. Each skill tree has a completely different theme, it's a mix and mash class with so much potential. Like the healing tree, surely the Warden should have the winters respite healing frost proc as a base healing skill, but no, they've got flowers, why?????

ESO_Nightingale

WillyOneBlood wrote: »

Why didn't they make the bear ulti a polar bear? A polar bear that does frost damage that scales off magicka/spell damage. Have the other morph a grizzly bear that scales off stamina/weapon damage. If the Warden is supposed to be the frost damage class, same way Sorcs are shock, DK's are fire, NB are magic, then why make all their damage tree do magick damage, makes no sense. Each skill tree has a completely different theme, it's a mix and mash class with so much potential. Like the healing tree, surely the Warden should have the winters respite healing frost proc as a base healing skill, but no, they've got flowers, why?????

we're trying to get at least deep fissure changed to frost damage.

YandereGirlfriend

WillyOneBlood wrote: »

Why didn't they make the bear ulti a polar bear? A polar bear that does frost damage that scales off magicka/spell damage. Have the other morph a grizzly bear that scales off stamina/weapon damage. If the Warden is supposed to be the frost damage class, same way Sorcs are shock, DK's are fire, NB are magic, then why make all their damage tree do magick damage, makes no sense. Each skill tree has a completely different theme, it's a mix and mash class with so much potential. Like the healing tree, surely the Warden should have the winters respite healing frost proc as a base healing skill, but no, they've got flowers, why?????

Completely agree with you but want to point out that Sorcerers are actually pretty terrible for dealing Shock Damage - especially if you don't want to use derpy pets.

Shock Mages are arguably in a worse situation than Frost Wardens are now since they do not even have a dedicated elemental spammable option.

WrathOfInnos

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

WillyOneBlood wrote: »

Why didn't they make the bear ulti a polar bear? A polar bear that does frost damage that scales off magicka/spell damage. Have the other morph a grizzly bear that scales off stamina/weapon damage. If the Warden is supposed to be the frost damage class, same way Sorcs are shock, DK's are fire, NB are magic, then why make all their damage tree do magick damage, makes no sense. Each skill tree has a completely different theme, it's a mix and mash class with so much potential. Like the healing tree, surely the Warden should have the winters respite healing frost proc as a base healing skill, but no, they've got flowers, why?????

Completely agree with you but want to point out that Sorcerers are actually pretty terrible for dealing Shock Damage - especially if you don't want to use derpy pets.

Shock Mages are arguably in a worse situation than Frost Wardens are now since they do not even have a dedicated elemental spammable option.

Yep, and there’s no comparison between the pathetic Lightning Flood and the amazing Frost class AoE’s: Boneyard and Winter’s Revenge.

ESO_Nightingale

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

WillyOneBlood wrote: »

Why didn't they make the bear ulti a polar bear? A polar bear that does frost damage that scales off magicka/spell damage. Have the other morph a grizzly bear that scales off stamina/weapon damage. If the Warden is supposed to be the frost damage class, same way Sorcs are shock, DK's are fire, NB are magic, then why make all their damage tree do magick damage, makes no sense. Each skill tree has a completely different theme, it's a mix and mash class with so much potential. Like the healing tree, surely the Warden should have the winters respite healing frost proc as a base healing skill, but no, they've got flowers, why?????

Completely agree with you but want to point out that Sorcerers are actually pretty terrible for dealing Shock Damage - especially if you don't want to use derpy pets.

Shock Mages are arguably in a worse situation than Frost Wardens are now since they do not even have a dedicated elemental spammable option.

Yep, and there’s no comparison between the pathetic Lightning Flood and the amazing Frost class AoE’s: Boneyard and Winter’s Revenge.

Not sure why liquid lightning hasn't been buffed considering that it's the one part of sorcerer's kit where buffing it would only help them out in pve and not in pvp where they're already amazing.

ESO_Nightingale

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

WillyOneBlood wrote: »

Why didn't they make the bear ulti a polar bear? A polar bear that does frost damage that scales off magicka/spell damage. Have the other morph a grizzly bear that scales off stamina/weapon damage. If the Warden is supposed to be the frost damage class, same way Sorcs are shock, DK's are fire, NB are magic, then why make all their damage tree do magick damage, makes no sense. Each skill tree has a completely different theme, it's a mix and mash class with so much potential. Like the healing tree, surely the Warden should have the winters respite healing frost proc as a base healing skill, but no, they've got flowers, why?????

Completely agree with you but want to point out that Sorcerers are actually pretty terrible for dealing Shock Damage - especially if you don't want to use derpy pets.

Shock Mages are arguably in a worse situation than Frost Wardens are now since they do not even have a dedicated elemental spammable option.

They do have an execute though. They always had more shock based options in terms of skills than frost wardens and still do to be fair. That being said. Shock clench could use a decent buff and they really need to do something with shock wall now that they removed the cp bonus to off balance enemies. but even then fire still craps on both of them with it's over abundance of sets, skills and support via engulfing and encratis. In terms of power fantasy fire is the only one that they seemingly cared about. And i think they really need to remove the group factor of those buffs to even out some of the elements.

Sevn

How did this turn into sorcs need a buff thread lol.

ESO_Nightingale

Sevn wrote: »

How did this turn into sorcs need a buff thread lol.

my question for you is: "what thread doesn't turn into sorcs need a buff thread?"

WillyOneBlood

For me, they should make all the DPS skills in each class do one type of damage and then have the destro staff and guild skills as an option where you get the other elements from. I'm not saying give each class the same buffs and an interupt and a stun etc Purely from a role playing point of view though because I understand that in end game you need different types of damage skills to complete the content. But why do none of the animal companions do frost damage?

Stx

Because warden was poorly designed from the beginning. They tried to fit the druid/nature magic archetype together with the frost mage archetype on one class.

Excelsus

Stx wrote: »

Because warden was poorly designed from the beginning. They tried to fit the druid/nature magic archetype together with the frost mage archetype on one class.

And its still infinitely more cohesive than the base game classes besides possibly nb which is still awkward in pve since its kit is so tied to stealth and flanking. I actually wish theyd go back and fully revise the basr game classes with the same approach they used with Warden and Necro. Damage tree with stamina and magicka morphs for each skill. Full defensive tree. Full healing tree. Unique buffs for team and self. Grest in pvp, pve and soloing.

ESO_Nightingale

WillyOneBlood wrote: »

For me, they should make all the DPS skills in each class do one type of damage and then have the destro staff and guild skills as an option where you get the other elements from. I'm not saying give each class the same buffs and an interupt and a stun etc Purely from a role playing point of view though because I understand that in end game you need different types of damage skills to complete the content. But why do none of the animal companions do frost damage?

i'd prefer if all of our skills did frost damage but, for now, frost damage deep fissure is simply the best candidate for an immediate type swap, it doesn't really change anything for the negative except for losing a minor amount of AoE overcharged. instead it would give chilled which is a lot more useful and it just helps us out a lot as frostdens since that's the goal we try to achieve, works better with class passives and item sets too. there's really no reason not to do it. if sub assault deals poison damage when the rest of stamden's kit does bleed and physical, why shouldn't deep fissure be better off with a more benificial type?

ESO_Nightingale

Excelsus wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Because warden was poorly designed from the beginning. They tried to fit the druid/nature magic archetype together with the frost mage archetype on one class.

And its still infinitely more cohesive than the base game classes besides possibly nb which is still awkward in pve since its kit is so tied to stealth and flanking. I actually wish theyd go back and fully revise the basr game classes with the same approach they used with Warden and Necro. Damage tree with stamina and magicka morphs for each skill. Full defensive tree. Full healing tree. Unique buffs for team and self. Grest in pvp, pve and soloing.

honestly, it doesn't really have a good offensive design appart from deep fissure, which feels like the central anchor of the class from a damage dealing perspective. dive has literally nothing to do with our class whatsoever appart from the vvardenfell theme. we have a generic ranged ST DoT and a generic ranged AoE DoT. and everything else is either utility, a raw damage boost or an ultimate. class may have been designed well as a healer, and decent as a tank, but its definitely showed it's horribly flawed design when it comes to damage dealing. we don't have the quantity and quality of damage skills that other classes have, instead we have raw damage boosts to bandaid that problem.

Trixterion

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WillyOneBlood wrote: »

For me, they should make all the DPS skills in each class do one type of damage and then have the destro staff and guild skills as an option where you get the other elements from. I'm not saying give each class the same buffs and an interupt and a stun etc Purely from a role playing point of view though because I understand that in end game you need different types of damage skills to complete the content. But why do none of the animal companions do frost damage?

i'd prefer if all of our skills did frost damage but, for now, frost damage deep fissure is simply the best candidate for an immediate type swap, it doesn't really change anything for the negative except for losing a minor amount of AoE overcharged. instead it would give chilled which is a lot more useful and it just helps us out a lot as frostdens since that's the goal we try to achieve, works better with class passives and item sets too. there's really no reason not to do it. if sub assault deals poison damage when the rest of stamden's kit does bleed and physical, why shouldn't deep fissure be better off with a more benificial type?

The main theme with Magden is that Animal Companion skill line entirely focuses around animals, magic damage and damage modifiers. Magic damage was ALWAYS the hardest hitting in terms of pure numbers(we all know this skills, no need to name them, and this was designed the way it is probably because pure magic damage didn't provide any additional damage because it hadn't any status effects when it was introduced). What you are asking is not an improvement over Warden skill lines but a replacement that will destroy the main Magden archetype in favor of Frostden. We should propose developers to create new skills or improve underrated skills rather than buffing already fine-performing skills to make them op. Frostden should be new archetype that has as little in common as possible with magden so that it would feel at least as different as ElfBane support DK vs pure dps DK(at least in terms of rotation they are different). Frost mages always were different in almost any game, here are some examples:
• frost deals more damage on impact, but skills have higher cost and longer cooldown;
• frost trades it's dps for snares, better shields, frost armor, ice block, freezing enemy into frost statue, and other COOL stuff.
Following this logic solution for Frostden should be implemented via choosing between extra 2% damage of all skills for each Animal companion ability and skills that provide better utility, like what was done with Frost Reach - we traded our decent spammable and extra 2% damage of all our skills for reliable source of Brittle and semi-decent dot attached to it so that now we can remain 95% uptime without Charged trait, or we can now use both berserker enchantment and frost enchantment on our backbar. The idea behind Frostden should be: harder to play than Magden, you deal 10% less damage overall than Magden but your crit damage is higher, you have different skill setup than Magden, your sustain suffers but you have more utility and survivability over Magden.

ESO_Nightingale

Trixterion wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WillyOneBlood wrote: »

For me, they should make all the DPS skills in each class do one type of damage and then have the destro staff and guild skills as an option where you get the other elements from. I'm not saying give each class the same buffs and an interupt and a stun etc Purely from a role playing point of view though because I understand that in end game you need different types of damage skills to complete the content. But why do none of the animal companions do frost damage?

i'd prefer if all of our skills did frost damage but, for now, frost damage deep fissure is simply the best candidate for an immediate type swap, it doesn't really change anything for the negative except for losing a minor amount of AoE overcharged. instead it would give chilled which is a lot more useful and it just helps us out a lot as frostdens since that's the goal we try to achieve, works better with class passives and item sets too. there's really no reason not to do it. if sub assault deals poison damage when the rest of stamden's kit does bleed and physical, why shouldn't deep fissure be better off with a more benificial type?

The main theme with Magden is that Animal Companion skill line entirely focuses around animals, magic damage and damage modifiers. Magic damage was ALWAYS the hardest hitting in terms of pure numbers(we all know this skills, no need to name them, and this was designed the way it is probably because pure magic damage didn't provide any additional damage because it hadn't any status effects when it was introduced). What you are asking is not an improvement over Warden skill lines but a replacement that will destroy the main Magden archetype in favor of Frostden. We should propose developers to create new skills or improve underrated skills rather than buffing already fine-performing skills to make them op. Frostden should be new archetype that has as little in common as possible with magden so that it would feel at least as different as ElfBane support DK vs pure dps DK(at least in terms of rotation they are different). Frost mages always were different in almost any game, here are some examples:
• frost deals more damage on impact, but skills have higher cost and longer cooldown;
• frost trades it's dps for snares, better shields, frost armor, ice block, freezing enemy into frost statue, and other COOL stuff.
Following this logic solution for Frostden should be implemented via choosing between extra 2% damage of all skills for each Animal companion ability and skills that provide better utility, like what was done with Frost Reach - we traded our decent spammable and extra 2% damage of all our skills for reliable source of Brittle and semi-decent dot attached to it so that now we can remain 95% uptime without Charged trait, or we can now use both berserker enchantment and frost enchantment on our backbar. The idea behind Frostden should be: harder to play than Magden, you deal 10% less damage overall than Magden but your crit damage is higher, you have different skill setup than Magden, your sustain suffers but you have more utility and survivability over Magden.

based on what you've said here, i don't think you understand how damage types work in this game. changing one skill from magic to frost doesn't "destroy the main archetype of magden" i don't get where that's coming from since it doesn't fundamentally change gameplay or themes on the class. all it does is improve chilled proc chance in aoe, in exchange for a little bit of aoe overcharged, already provided by other classes anyway, and it interacts better with sets since the only one it currently works with at the moment is war maiden. if you hate frost so much, i'm sorry, but that's what the class does.