Frost damage for Warden

ESO_Nightingale

Lughlongarm wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Excelsus wrote: »

Agreed. Wardens need a decent Frost ult and a strong single target Frost dot which Frozen Retreat could become.

Is Frost Reach keeping its single target DoT in addition to the spammable instant damage? That may fill the role well enough, hard to say until I try it.

Northern Storm is definitely underpowered. Maybe it could become purely offensive, and leave Permafrost as the defensive option.

this is on a medusa, frostbite, iceheart khajiit warden.

Based on our discussion few days ago, I was almost on the money. This is indeed a great buff to ice staves and frost builds in General. Even the buffed frost clench is great and now this skill is an awesome utility skill, both pvp and pve.
Wonder what will happen if you drop ice heart for master staff.

Yeah you were pretty close. I thought about a lot of ideas but frost reach becoming a spammable was not one of them lol.

YandereGirlfriend

Lughlongarm wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I just hopped on the PTS and Frost Reach now does more damage than either Shock Reach or Shock Clench.

While that's great for Frost Wardens it's clear the Shock Mages need some serious help now.

I think Shock clench also applies now AOE minor Vulnerability with 100% uptime, no? Also shock staff passive got buffed to 10% AOE damage, seems like Good value . Need to test.

It should but that still does not solve the existential problem of a Shock Mage not actually having a viable spammable.

Frost Wardens just got theirs so logically it is time for Shock Mages to be queued up to receive theirs.

I don't really care which morph that it gets attached to. Currently Shock Clench does more up-front damage than Shock Reach but you could use the same approach as was used for the Frost Wardens and instead increase the up-front damage on Shock Reach to match the ranged spammable standard.

Faulgor

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I just hopped on the PTS and Frost Reach now does more damage than either Shock Reach or Shock Clench.

While that's great for Frost Wardens it's clear the Shock Mages need some serious help now.

Yeah I don't really see why they made an exception for the frost version. Are they scared a comparable flame or shock spammable would replace other spammables? I think it would be sufficiently different from Force Pulse or Elemental Weapon.

Fire mages have reigned long enough. If we bring up Frost, at least Shock should get some love, too.

Lughlongarm

Lughlongarm wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I just hopped on the PTS and Frost Reach now does more damage than either Shock Reach or Shock Clench.

While that's great for Frost Wardens it's clear the Shock Mages need some serious help now.

I think Shock clench also applies now AOE minor Vulnerability with 100% uptime, no? Also shock staff passive got buffed to 10% AOE damage, seems like Good value . Need to test.

The debuff does not apply to the AOE, only the initial hit:(

ESO_Nightingale

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I just hopped on the PTS and Frost Reach now does more damage than either Shock Reach or Shock Clench.

While that's great for Frost Wardens it's clear the Shock Mages need some serious help now.

I think Shock clench also applies now AOE minor Vulnerability with 100% uptime, no? Also shock staff passive got buffed to 10% AOE damage, seems like Good value . Need to test.

It should but that still does not solve the existential problem of a Shock Mage not actually having a viable spammable.

Frost Wardens just got theirs so logically it is time for Shock Mages to be queued up to receive theirs.

I don't really care which morph that it gets attached to. Currently Shock Clench does more up-front damage than Shock Reach but you could use the same approach as was used for the Frost Wardens and instead increase the up-front damage on Shock Reach to match the ranged spammable standard.

I could see them buffing the ST component up to a spammable standard to have it be like a magicka version of silver shards. I think that'd be nice.

Lughlongarm

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I just hopped on the PTS and Frost Reach now does more damage than either Shock Reach or Shock Clench.

While that's great for Frost Wardens it's clear the Shock Mages need some serious help now.

I think Shock clench also applies now AOE minor Vulnerability with 100% uptime, no? Also shock staff passive got buffed to 10% AOE damage, seems like Good value . Need to test.

It should but that still does not solve the existential problem of a Shock Mage not actually having a viable spammable.

Frost Wardens just got theirs so logically it is time for Shock Mages to be queued up to receive theirs.

I don't really care which morph that it gets attached to. Currently Shock Clench does more up-front damage than Shock Reach but you could use the same approach as was used for the Frost Wardens and instead increase the up-front damage on Shock Reach to match the ranged spammable standard.

While I don't disagree, remember that Warden had only one damage skill that applies frost damage, Winter's Revenge and up to 3 if you consider artic blast and ulti. Sorcs has 3 shock damage skills and up to 6 if you consider pets and ulti. So the base tool kit is a big difference between the 2 classes.

Also remember the frost staff provides the weakest self dps passive to self. This needs to be considered, 10% AOE buff is not something we can ignore.

Regarding shock clench, I think the debuff should apply to all targets.

RandomKodiak

Just a few quick tests nothing extensive but it seems running Kilt+Slimecraw with Medusa or running MS + Masters yields about the same results dps wise. 2 tests each all within 1600 dps. So with crit rng and such seems whichever you have you can do about same dps. Like I said just two tests each so not definitive.

ESO_Nightingale

RandomKodiak wrote: »

Just a few quick tests nothing extensive but it seems running Kilt+Slimecraw with Medusa or running MS + Masters yields about the same results dps wise. 2 tests each all within 1600 dps. So with crit rng and such seems whichever you have you can do about same dps. Like I said just two tests each so not definitive.

we're currently running parses, it seems to be performing very well.

ESO_Nightingale

RandomKodiak wrote: »

Just a few quick tests nothing extensive but it seems running Kilt+Slimecraw with Medusa or running MS + Masters yields about the same results dps wise. 2 tests each all within 1600 dps. So with crit rng and such seems whichever you have you can do about same dps. Like I said just two tests each so not definitive.

it's looking like running MS + masters with no monster helm is doing fairly good damage when you use barbed trap for minor force. since if you used medusa you'd be required to drop 2 pieces of light armor for heavy.

Faulgor

Lughlongarm wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I just hopped on the PTS and Frost Reach now does more damage than either Shock Reach or Shock Clench.

While that's great for Frost Wardens it's clear the Shock Mages need some serious help now.

I think Shock clench also applies now AOE minor Vulnerability with 100% uptime, no? Also shock staff passive got buffed to 10% AOE damage, seems like Good value . Need to test.

It should but that still does not solve the existential problem of a Shock Mage not actually having a viable spammable.

Frost Wardens just got theirs so logically it is time for Shock Mages to be queued up to receive theirs.

I don't really care which morph that it gets attached to. Currently Shock Clench does more up-front damage than Shock Reach but you could use the same approach as was used for the Frost Wardens and instead increase the up-front damage on Shock Reach to match the ranged spammable standard.

While I don't disagree, remember that Warden had only one damage skill that applies frost damage, Winter's Revenge and up to 3 if you consider artic blast and ulti. Sorcs has 3 shock damage skills and up to 6 if you consider pets and ulti. So the base tool kit is a big difference between the 2 classes.

Also remember the frost staff provides the weakest self dps passive to self. This needs to be considered, 10% AOE buff is not something we can ignore.

Regarding shock clench, I think the debuff should apply to all targets.

None of the Sorcerer shock spells (Mage's Fury, Lightning Form, Lightning Splash) are a spammable, though. Sorcerer doesn't have any real spammable at all to this day, unless you enjoy hard-casting frags. Except for the 5% buff to shock damage (compare this to Warden's 10% for magic and frost damage), there is also virtually no synergy at all for shock damage in the Sorcerer toolkit anymore. And that 5% bonus isn't even enough to convince Sorcerers to run a shock staff on the back bar, let alone front. The 10% to AoE damage is nice on paper, but when most of your damage is single target (spammable, curse, frags, Twilight, enchantments, execute, light attacks), the inferno staff will always win out. On the other hand, Warden deals 10% more crit damage to chllled enemies with all its attacks.

I'm not saying Sorcerers are weak, but shock mages they are not.

To add insult to injury, Wardens get easy access to Minor Vulnerability, which used to be the forte of the shock status effect.

I am so happy that Wardens get more frost capabilities. I will gladly use Frost Reach on mine. But outside of niche heavy attack builds, shock staffs have been at best a support weapon for a very, very long time. And now that frost mages are no longer the forgotten step child of the destruction school, it shows how deprived shock mages have been.

Excelsus

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Changing Shalks' damage type to frost may be thematic, but it won't actually do much for DPS.

Are you sure about that? Wardens have a 10% bonus to frost damage built into their passives. That means 10% more Shalk damage. It also means having a chance for AOE chilled for more crit damage and when wearing a frost staff even AOE brittle. Direct AOE damage has a higher chance of applying status effects than AOE damage over time effects, which is all that Wardens have right now.

The point above about magic vs. frost damage was made more accurately than I would have.

Beyond that, the base chance of a status effect from a direct-damage AoE hit is -- 5%, correct? Likely we could multiply that by 3.6 (warden passive, destro passive, CP) to get 18%, every 3 seconds. So yes, that will help some for enemies who aren't standing in Winter's Revenge but are hit by Shalks, or who are hit by Shalks before Winter's Revenge is down.

That's nice, but not a huge deal.

It's more chances to proc chilled in aoe and the damage type change allows it to interact with more sets than only war maiden. It's a huge deal for carving frost warden a niche of being the defacto best brittle applicant possible.

Winters Revenge already has great uptime for aoe chill due to Glacial Presense which wouldnt affect Shalks even if it was frost. It would be nice, considering the damage bonus of Frostbite but a minor change. Thematically I feel like Warden is missing a Frost ult that capitilizes on their crit based ice passives and minor brittle.

ESO_Nightingale

Excelsus wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Changing Shalks' damage type to frost may be thematic, but it won't actually do much for DPS.

Are you sure about that? Wardens have a 10% bonus to frost damage built into their passives. That means 10% more Shalk damage. It also means having a chance for AOE chilled for more crit damage and when wearing a frost staff even AOE brittle. Direct AOE damage has a higher chance of applying status effects than AOE damage over time effects, which is all that Wardens have right now.

The point above about magic vs. frost damage was made more accurately than I would have.

Beyond that, the base chance of a status effect from a direct-damage AoE hit is -- 5%, correct? Likely we could multiply that by 3.6 (warden passive, destro passive, CP) to get 18%, every 3 seconds. So yes, that will help some for enemies who aren't standing in Winter's Revenge but are hit by Shalks, or who are hit by Shalks before Winter's Revenge is down.

That's nice, but not a huge deal.

It's more chances to proc chilled in aoe and the damage type change allows it to interact with more sets than only war maiden. It's a huge deal for carving frost warden a niche of being the defacto best brittle applicant possible.

Winters Revenge already has great uptime for aoe chill due to Glacial Presense which wouldnt affect Shalks even if it was frost. It would be nice, considering the damage bonus of Frostbite but a minor change. Thematically I feel like Warden is missing a Frost ult that capitilizes on their crit based ice passives and minor brittle.

just because winter's revenge can do it doesn't mean deep fissure shouldn't be able to, the more aoe application the better for the viability of frostden dps. a frost ultimate would have to be better than bear though, and i don't see that happening. bear is too much of our DPS.

Excelsus

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Excelsus wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Changing Shalks' damage type to frost may be thematic, but it won't actually do much for DPS.

Are you sure about that? Wardens have a 10% bonus to frost damage built into their passives. That means 10% more Shalk damage. It also means having a chance for AOE chilled for more crit damage and when wearing a frost staff even AOE brittle. Direct AOE damage has a higher chance of applying status effects than AOE damage over time effects, which is all that Wardens have right now.

The point above about magic vs. frost damage was made more accurately than I would have.

Beyond that, the base chance of a status effect from a direct-damage AoE hit is -- 5%, correct? Likely we could multiply that by 3.6 (warden passive, destro passive, CP) to get 18%, every 3 seconds. So yes, that will help some for enemies who aren't standing in Winter's Revenge but are hit by Shalks, or who are hit by Shalks before Winter's Revenge is down.

That's nice, but not a huge deal.

It's more chances to proc chilled in aoe and the damage type change allows it to interact with more sets than only war maiden. It's a huge deal for carving frost warden a niche of being the defacto best brittle applicant possible.

Winters Revenge already has great uptime for aoe chill due to Glacial Presense which wouldnt affect Shalks even if it was frost. It would be nice, considering the damage bonus of Frostbite but a minor change. Thematically I feel like Warden is missing a Frost ult that capitilizes on their crit based ice passives and minor brittle.

just because winter's revenge can do it doesn't mean deep fissure shouldn't be able to, the more aoe application the better for the viability of frostden dps. a frost ultimate would have to be better than bear though, and i don't see that happening. bear is too much of our DPS.

Thats the issue I have. Id like to see Warden have a viable pet/magic build and a frost mage build. The limits of eso and our skill trees means there will be overlap but a good frost ult will help thematically and also damage wise. If bear is still best dps that says a lot about the payload of frost damage ults. My recommendation would be have icy rage do more critical damage to enemies who are chilled or change northern storm to also boost your critical damage while active to lean into Wardens being crit monsters against frozen enemies. Otherwise Im very happy with the dps tests and the utility behind frost reach/clench. The extra cost of frost skills also helps it combo with Bahseis Mania.

RandomKodiak

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

it's looking like running MS + masters with no monster helm is doing fairly good damage when you use barbed trap for minor force. since if you used medusa you'd be required to drop 2 pieces of light armor for heavy.

Yep I didn't run trap, like I said just a couple of quick parses figured trap would make a difference just didn't have the time. I am glad they made this change frost warden is still not "Meta" but in a much better place now and that is great.

Excelsus

Faulgor wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I just hopped on the PTS and Frost Reach now does more damage than either Shock Reach or Shock Clench.

While that's great for Frost Wardens it's clear the Shock Mages need some serious help now.

I think Shock clench also applies now AOE minor Vulnerability with 100% uptime, no? Also shock staff passive got buffed to 10% AOE damage, seems like Good value . Need to test.

It should but that still does not solve the existential problem of a Shock Mage not actually having a viable spammable.

Frost Wardens just got theirs so logically it is time for Shock Mages to be queued up to receive theirs.

I don't really care which morph that it gets attached to. Currently Shock Clench does more up-front damage than Shock Reach but you could use the same approach as was used for the Frost Wardens and instead increase the up-front damage on Shock Reach to match the ranged spammable standard.

While I don't disagree, remember that Warden had only one damage skill that applies frost damage, Winter's Revenge and up to 3 if you consider artic blast and ulti. Sorcs has 3 shock damage skills and up to 6 if you consider pets and ulti. So the base tool kit is a big difference between the 2 classes.

Also remember the frost staff provides the weakest self dps passive to self. This needs to be considered, 10% AOE buff is not something we can ignore.

Regarding shock clench, I think the debuff should apply to all targets.

None of the Sorcerer shock spells (Mage's Fury, Lightning Form, Lightning Splash) are a spammable, though. Sorcerer doesn't have any real spammable at all to this day, unless you enjoy hard-casting frags. Except for the 5% buff to shock damage (compare this to Warden's 10% for magic and frost damage), there is also virtually no synergy at all for shock damage in the Sorcerer toolkit anymore. And that 5% bonus isn't even enough to convince Sorcerers to run a shock staff on the back bar, let alone front. The 10% to AoE damage is nice on paper, but when most of your damage is single target (spammable, curse, frags, Twilight, enchantments, execute, light attacks), the inferno staff will always win out. On the other hand, Warden deals 10% more crit damage to chllled enemies with all its attacks.

I'm not saying Sorcerers are weak, but shock mages they are not.

To add insult to injury, Wardens get easy access to Minor Vulnerability, which used to be the forte of the shock status effect.

I am so happy that Wardens get more frost capabilities. I will gladly use Frost Reach on mine. But outside of niche heavy attack builds, shock staffs have been at best a support weapon for a very, very long time. And now that frost mages are no longer the forgotten step child of the destruction school, it shows how deprived shock mages have been.

Wardens have higher frost damage because frost staff has no inherit damage bonus compared to shock boosting aoe damage by 10%. So really its sorcs getting 15% damage bonus with shock staved and Wardens doing 10% with Frost. I like the theme. Frost only unleashing its full offensive potential in the hands of a Warden. And I agree we need more tools for shock. I like the new shock damage set but something similar to frostbite or bsw and a shock spammable, maybe the unused morph of mages wrath. Or as someone else suggested make shock reach a magicka silver shards and lean into shock mages being aoe masters. I agree sorcs should have a viable shock mage build like the sorcs in D2. Give that chain lightning to us.

ajkb78

I still think the right approach to thematising elemental damage is to alter the destro passives so that instead of inferno staff buffing single target damage, shock buffing aoe damage and ice being meh, each should buff both their respective elemental damage plus magic damage. That way DKs and templars would naturally want inferno staves, sorcs would naturally want shock staves, wardens would naturally want ice staves; the choice would be less clear cut for NBs, any staff would probably do for NB and for necro it might depend somewhat on the build. But each would be viable and it would make each type of staff BIS on at least one class.

The current tanking ice staff passives could be built into an existing tank related CP star.

I think concussed could also do with a rethink, currently it's pretty worthless compared to burning and chilled.

ESO_Nightingale

ajkb78 wrote: »

I still think the right approach to thematising elemental damage is to alter the destro passives so that instead of inferno staff buffing single target damage, shock buffing aoe damage and ice being meh, each should buff both their respective elemental damage plus magic damage. That way DKs and templars would naturally want inferno staves, sorcs would naturally want shock staves, wardens would naturally want ice staves; the choice would be less clear cut for NBs, any staff would probably do for NB and for necro it might depend somewhat on the build. But each would be viable and it would make each type of staff BIS on at least one class.

The current tanking ice staff passives could be built into an existing tank related CP star.

I think concussed could also do with a rethink, currently it's pretty worthless compared to burning and chilled.

to me that seems like that will really cut down on build variety and would make mag builds more strict. i'm not sure about it, though i think that moving tank related ice staff passives to the cp system would be pretty good

ArchMikem

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

For magicka warden specifically, having deep fissure deal frost damage, would be immensely helpful.

It's not a true Frost Mage ability if it's in the form of a creature dealing it. Now if it was like, a chilled quake, or a slightly different visual of Impaling Shards where they burst from the ground in a line, that'd be more suitable to the theme.

Regardless of being a true frost mage ability it's still essential for achieving as much dps as possible on a frost warden.

Its a compromise I'm not willing to make. Already had to go thru that decision about using Fetcher Infection.

kojou

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Oakiyo wrote: »

I'm very exited for the changes on clench. Finally a spamable for frost users.

Since the goal here is to give some love to frost DD's, could you now pls switch the offensive abilities of warden to frost damage ? This class is supposed to the frost class, yet you have only 2 skills (3 with the ult) that deals frost damages. It would make sense to be able to fully build into frost damage on this class. Dk's already have a full fire damage kit. Why wardens wouldn't ?

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Can we add sorcs being the shock mage to this request? They have the same issue as Warden's in that regard.

They should really update all classes to have a major focus on the following to distinguish better build diversity:

• DK = Fire/Poison
• Sorc = Shock/Physical
• Templar = Magic/Physical
• NB = Magic/Disease
• Necro = Elementalist = Flame/Frost/Shock/Disease/Poison
• Warden = Frost/Bleed

I would rather do away with "magic" damage altogether. Just let the flavor of staff determine the type of damage.

ESO_Nightingale

ArchMikem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

For magicka warden specifically, having deep fissure deal frost damage, would be immensely helpful.

It's not a true Frost Mage ability if it's in the form of a creature dealing it. Now if it was like, a chilled quake, or a slightly different visual of Impaling Shards where they burst from the ground in a line, that'd be more suitable to the theme.

Regardless of being a true frost mage ability it's still essential for achieving as much dps as possible on a frost warden.

Its a compromise I'm not willing to make. Already had to go thru that decision about using Fetcher Infection.

well, you don't have to use it if you don't want but we will as it's an essential part of max dps on magicka warden.

YandereGirlfriend

Excelsus wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I just hopped on the PTS and Frost Reach now does more damage than either Shock Reach or Shock Clench.

While that's great for Frost Wardens it's clear the Shock Mages need some serious help now.

I think Shock clench also applies now AOE minor Vulnerability with 100% uptime, no? Also shock staff passive got buffed to 10% AOE damage, seems like Good value . Need to test.

It should but that still does not solve the existential problem of a Shock Mage not actually having a viable spammable.

Frost Wardens just got theirs so logically it is time for Shock Mages to be queued up to receive theirs.

I don't really care which morph that it gets attached to. Currently Shock Clench does more up-front damage than Shock Reach but you could use the same approach as was used for the Frost Wardens and instead increase the up-front damage on Shock Reach to match the ranged spammable standard.

While I don't disagree, remember that Warden had only one damage skill that applies frost damage, Winter's Revenge and up to 3 if you consider artic blast and ulti. Sorcs has 3 shock damage skills and up to 6 if you consider pets and ulti. So the base tool kit is a big difference between the 2 classes.

Also remember the frost staff provides the weakest self dps passive to self. This needs to be considered, 10% AOE buff is not something we can ignore.

Regarding shock clench, I think the debuff should apply to all targets.

None of the Sorcerer shock spells (Mage's Fury, Lightning Form, Lightning Splash) are a spammable, though. Sorcerer doesn't have any real spammable at all to this day, unless you enjoy hard-casting frags. Except for the 5% buff to shock damage (compare this to Warden's 10% for magic and frost damage), there is also virtually no synergy at all for shock damage in the Sorcerer toolkit anymore. And that 5% bonus isn't even enough to convince Sorcerers to run a shock staff on the back bar, let alone front. The 10% to AoE damage is nice on paper, but when most of your damage is single target (spammable, curse, frags, Twilight, enchantments, execute, light attacks), the inferno staff will always win out. On the other hand, Warden deals 10% more crit damage to chllled enemies with all its attacks.

I'm not saying Sorcerers are weak, but shock mages they are not.

To add insult to injury, Wardens get easy access to Minor Vulnerability, which used to be the forte of the shock status effect.

I am so happy that Wardens get more frost capabilities. I will gladly use Frost Reach on mine. But outside of niche heavy attack builds, shock staffs have been at best a support weapon for a very, very long time. And now that frost mages are no longer the forgotten step child of the destruction school, it shows how deprived shock mages have been.

Wardens have higher frost damage because frost staff has no inherit damage bonus compared to shock boosting aoe damage by 10%. So really its sorcs getting 15% damage bonus with shock staved and Wardens doing 10% with Frost. I like the theme. Frost only unleashing its full offensive potential in the hands of a Warden. And I agree we need more tools for shock. I like the new shock damage set but something similar to frostbite or bsw and a shock spammable, maybe the unused morph of mages wrath. Or as someone else suggested make shock reach a magicka silver shards and lean into shock mages being aoe masters. I agree sorcs should have a viable shock mage build like the sorcs in D2. Give that chain lightning to us.

Yes, but as was stated in the post that you're quoting, the overwhelming majority of Sorcerer DPS is... single-target, which is not receiving any buff at all from the Ancient Knowledge passive. That's why nearly all Sorcerers use Inferno Staves.

Most of the Sorcerer toolkit isn't even Shock Damage either so their 5% Shock Damage passive isn't doing nearly as much work for them as the 10% Frost and Magic Damage passive does for Wardens - as that passive encompasses basically the entirety of their damage abilities.

It's also an issue that choosing to use Shock Damage as a Sorcerer pigeon-holes you into using pets and said pets are disliked by many Sorcerer players.

FrancisCrawford

Lughlongarm wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I just hopped on the PTS and Frost Reach now does more damage than either Shock Reach or Shock Clench.

While that's great for Frost Wardens it's clear the Shock Mages need some serious help now.

I think Shock clench also applies now AOE minor Vulnerability with 100% uptime, no? Also shock staff passive got buffed to 10% AOE damage, seems like Good value . Need to test.

And a guaranteed AoE status effect could help Force Pulse's splash damage.

Does anybody know what the radius is for either or both of the Shock Clench AoE and the Force Pulse splash?

WrathOfInnos

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I just hopped on the PTS and Frost Reach now does more damage than either Shock Reach or Shock Clench.

While that's great for Frost Wardens it's clear the Shock Mages need some serious help now.

I think Shock clench also applies now AOE minor Vulnerability with 100% uptime, no? Also shock staff passive got buffed to 10% AOE damage, seems like Good value . Need to test.

And a guaranteed AoE status effect could help Force Pulse's splash damage.

Does anybody know what the radius is for either or both of the Shock Clench AoE and the Force Pulse splash?

@FrancisCrawford Force Pulse is 8m radius. I can’t remember if Shock Clench is 5m or 6m. I want to say 5m because it definitely covers fewer enemies than Shock Ring at 6m radius, but it’s also possible that’s caused by Shock Ring requiring a target at the center point. For example Shock Ring can hit two enemies that are 11-12m apart if you aim well, Shock Clench and Force Pulse cannot.

YandereGirlfriend

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

I just hopped on the PTS and Frost Reach now does more damage than either Shock Reach or Shock Clench.

While that's great for Frost Wardens it's clear the Shock Mages need some serious help now.

I think Shock clench also applies now AOE minor Vulnerability with 100% uptime, no? Also shock staff passive got buffed to 10% AOE damage, seems like Good value . Need to test.

And a guaranteed AoE status effect could help Force Pulse's splash damage.

Does anybody know what the radius is for either or both of the Shock Clench AoE and the Force Pulse splash?

IIRC Shock Clench radius is 5 meters.

However, someone earlier in the thread posted that the Minor Vulnerability is not actually AoE and that it only applies to the target you cast it against.

FrancisCrawford

While we're at it, what does "recently been Chilled" mean in the Glacial Presence passive tooltip?

One guess, untested in any way: It could mean four seconds from the condition being imposed, whether or not it's been subsequently cleansed.

ArchMikem

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

For magicka warden specifically, having deep fissure deal frost damage, would be immensely helpful.

It's not a true Frost Mage ability if it's in the form of a creature dealing it. Now if it was like, a chilled quake, or a slightly different visual of Impaling Shards where they burst from the ground in a line, that'd be more suitable to the theme.

Regardless of being a true frost mage ability it's still essential for achieving as much dps as possible on a frost warden.

Its a compromise I'm not willing to make. Already had to go thru that decision about using Fetcher Infection.

well, you don't have to use it if you don't want but we will as it's an essential part of max dps on magicka warden.

I'm just not understanding the logic there. Making Animal Companion abilities deal Frost Damage doesn't make it a Frost Warden to me. You're still just a basic Warden that's happening to deal Frost Damage. Though even I'm breaking the theme by using Fetchers for the damage taken debuff, I'd love nothing more than to be able to kit my bars with pure Ice Magic abilities.

LeHarrt91

ArchMikem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

For magicka warden specifically, having deep fissure deal frost damage, would be immensely helpful.

It's not a true Frost Mage ability if it's in the form of a creature dealing it. Now if it was like, a chilled quake, or a slightly different visual of Impaling Shards where they burst from the ground in a line, that'd be more suitable to the theme.

Regardless of being a true frost mage ability it's still essential for achieving as much dps as possible on a frost warden.

Its a compromise I'm not willing to make. Already had to go thru that decision about using Fetcher Infection.

well, you don't have to use it if you don't want but we will as it's an essential part of max dps on magicka warden.

I'm just not understanding the logic there. Making Animal Companion abilities deal Frost Damage doesn't make it a Frost Warden to me. You're still just a basic Warden that's happening to deal Frost Damage. Though even I'm breaking the theme by using Fetchers for the damage taken debuff, I'd love nothing more than to be able to kit my bars with pure Ice Magic abilities.

Making Arctic Blast a better DPS skill and maybe turning one morph of Frozen Gate into a Scaling Rune type skills would be good.

YandereGirlfriend

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

For magicka warden specifically, having deep fissure deal frost damage, would be immensely helpful.

It's not a true Frost Mage ability if it's in the form of a creature dealing it. Now if it was like, a chilled quake, or a slightly different visual of Impaling Shards where they burst from the ground in a line, that'd be more suitable to the theme.

Regardless of being a true frost mage ability it's still essential for achieving as much dps as possible on a frost warden.

Its a compromise I'm not willing to make. Already had to go thru that decision about using Fetcher Infection.

well, you don't have to use it if you don't want but we will as it's an essential part of max dps on magicka warden.

I'm just not understanding the logic there. Making Animal Companion abilities deal Frost Damage doesn't make it a Frost Warden to me. You're still just a basic Warden that's happening to deal Frost Damage. Though even I'm breaking the theme by using Fetchers for the damage taken debuff, I'd love nothing more than to be able to kit my bars with pure Ice Magic abilities.

Making Arctic Blast a better DPS skill and maybe turning one morph of Frozen Gate into a Scaling Rune type skills would be good.

Indeed.

And those changes hurt basically nobody since Icy Retreat is likely one of the least-used morphs in all of ESO and Arctic Blast has been problematic for quite some time and could use a more noble purpose than assisting stamDens to oppress their peons in PvP.

emilyhyoyeon

ajkb78 wrote: »

I still think the right approach to thematising elemental damage is to alter the destro passives so that instead of inferno staff buffing single target damage, shock buffing aoe damage and ice being meh, each should buff both their respective elemental damage plus magic damage. That way DKs and templars would naturally want inferno staves, sorcs would naturally want shock staves, wardens would naturally want ice staves; the choice would be less clear cut for NBs, any staff would probably do for NB and for necro it might depend somewhat on the build. But each would be viable and it would make each type of staff BIS on at least one class.

The current tanking ice staff passives could be built into an existing tank related CP star.

I think concussed could also do with a rethink, currently it's pretty worthless compared to burning and chilled.

yeah this is what I've wanted since ZOS made ancient knowledge what it is today.

something huge I never see people mention/care about is that the +8% (10%+ on PTS) from fire staff applies to LIGHT ATTACKS as well. Like please just rework this passive already PLEASE I don't understand

ESO_Nightingale

ArchMikem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

For magicka warden specifically, having deep fissure deal frost damage, would be immensely helpful.

It's not a true Frost Mage ability if it's in the form of a creature dealing it. Now if it was like, a chilled quake, or a slightly different visual of Impaling Shards where they burst from the ground in a line, that'd be more suitable to the theme.

Regardless of being a true frost mage ability it's still essential for achieving as much dps as possible on a frost warden.

Its a compromise I'm not willing to make. Already had to go thru that decision about using Fetcher Infection.

well, you don't have to use it if you don't want but we will as it's an essential part of max dps on magicka warden.

I'm just not understanding the logic there. Making Animal Companion abilities deal Frost Damage doesn't make it a Frost Warden to me. You're still just a basic Warden that's happening to deal Frost Damage. Though even I'm breaking the theme by using Fetchers for the damage taken debuff, I'd love nothing more than to be able to kit my bars with pure Ice Magic abilities.

It's about compromise. We cant delete the animals from the class. And since deep fissure makes up so much of our damage, it would heavily benefit from dealing frost damage for the reasons I've listed already. When coming up with suggestions you have to think about everyone involved in a change and how it'll affect them. It may not make it a frost warden to you but it does to me and a lot of other people, even if we get some other frost damage skills in winter's embrace it'll still be a necessary change for deep fissure.