7 years gone in a moment

Galadan

It's good to see some feedback from ZOS, really.

What about some kind of estimation date of solution? Patch, release, month, year?)

Ode2Order

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Good morning, everyone. We want to take some time to provide an update on this thread. First and foremost, thank you to everyone who voiced concern on behalf of @Yormula and their account. We understand the concern comes from a place of care for Yormula's account, and also player account safety overall. We want to stress how seriously the ZOS team takes these concerns. We hope giving context to this specific case will help ease your concerns and show the steps we are taking to ensure account integrity.

As the original post stated, we were assisting in a specific achievement-related issue Yormula had. We attempted a very complicated manual fix that is rarely done to make the character whole. This fix failed due to a human error using very complex tools. The result left the character in an unplayable state.

With that, we would like to highlight a few clarifying details:

• Yormula's character is currently in an unplayable state due to the error, not deleted. The character data still exists. For those worried about character deletion, we want to reassure you this is not what happened in this case.
• We have identified the error which left the character unplayable and have updated our process to ensure that this type of error is prevented in the future.
• Lastly, we are personally updating Yormula as we continue the process to resolve this for them. This particular situation is complex and will take some time, and we are committed to doing everything in our power to make this right.

We hope this helps assure you that we have taken appropriate measures to prevent this error moving forward and also that we are taking steps to make this right for Yormula. We will continue communication with Yormula about this until the issue is resolved. Thank you.

Thank you for the update!! I think I speak for the majority of players when I say that this type of communication is all we want to see from Zenimax. There is nothing worse than corporate silence. You have taken steps into the right direction with this, and I hope it will continue ^^ Thank you again, and good luck fixing the issue!

Jamerth

The update was 4 days ago and the problem itself is 10 months old.
As an IT guy i don't get it how can someone proceed with an action that can mess things up without taking a backup first.

PrimusTiberius

CristyRazvan wrote: »

The update was 4 days ago and the problem itself is 10 months old.
As an IT guy i don't get it how can someone proceed with an action that can mess things up without taking a backup first.

make you wonder how they run their operation behind the scene, like who doesn't have data back up nowadays? I'm a building engineer and every email, every submittal, every update/change order is backed up x3.

valkyrie93

Any update?

Coatmagic

Think the worst part of this is that even suppose there were no back-ups or whatever they claim, there is such a thing as just templates. Could have just tossed the person one after putting them through all of this.

starkerealm

Coatmagic wrote: »

Think the worst part of this is that even suppose there were no back-ups or whatever they claim, there is such a thing as just templates. Could have just tossed the person one after putting them through all of this.

They were offered a template, and turned it down.

spartaxoxo

starkerealm wrote: »

Coatmagic wrote: »

Think the worst part of this is that even suppose there were no back-ups or whatever they claim, there is such a thing as just templates. Could have just tossed the person one after putting them through all of this.

They were offered a template, and turned it down.

The template didn't have the achievements, which is obviously more important than the skill points because it represents years of work

starkerealm

spartaxoxo wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Coatmagic wrote: »

Think the worst part of this is that even suppose there were no back-ups or whatever they claim, there is such a thing as just templates. Could have just tossed the person one after putting them through all of this.

They were offered a template, and turned it down.

The template didn't have the achievements, which is obviously more important than the skill points because it represents years of work

You can earn achievements, you cannot earn unsourced skill points.

spartaxoxo

starkerealm wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Coatmagic wrote: »

Think the worst part of this is that even suppose there were no back-ups or whatever they claim, there is such a thing as just templates. Could have just tossed the person one after putting them through all of this.

They were offered a template, and turned it down.

The template didn't have the achievements, which is obviously more important than the skill points because it represents years of work

You can earn achievements, you cannot earn unsourced skill points.

You don't need that many skill points. Having more points than he'd ever even bother to use doesn't compensate 7 years of lost effort

starkerealm

spartaxoxo wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Coatmagic wrote: »

Think the worst part of this is that even suppose there were no back-ups or whatever they claim, there is such a thing as just templates. Could have just tossed the person one after putting them through all of this.

They were offered a template, and turned it down.

The template didn't have the achievements, which is obviously more important than the skill points because it represents years of work

You can earn achievements, you cannot earn unsourced skill points.

You don't need that many skill points. Having more points than he'd ever even bother to use doesn't compensate 7 years of lost effort

If you already learned what to do, it doesn't take seven years to do the achievements.

Having more skill points than you need, also, isn't the point.

A template will have a permanently higher skill point ceiling, in comparison to other characters on live.

The point is, that's actually very unique and unusual.

Additionally, awarding achievements was how they got into this mess in the first place. So, it does kinda follow, that it's something ZOS is hesitant to muck with.

Now, it's not a no brainer, but the offer of a template was a bit more considerate than most people seem to have realized. Though, it's entirely understandable why they would want to turn that offer down.

Coatmagic

When I said they should just give you a template, I was referring to the ones like PTS has that are basically achiev flagged to have all the various dyes/costumes etc unlocked. Meaning there is such a thing available, is what I was getting at anyway.

tmbrinks

starkerealm wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Coatmagic wrote: »

Think the worst part of this is that even suppose there were no back-ups or whatever they claim, there is such a thing as just templates. Could have just tossed the person one after putting them through all of this.

They were offered a template, and turned it down.

The template didn't have the achievements, which is obviously more important than the skill points because it represents years of work

You can earn achievements, you cannot earn unsourced skill points.

You don't need that many skill points. Having more points than he'd ever even bother to use doesn't compensate 7 years of lost effort

If you already learned what to do, it doesn't take seven years to do the achievements.

Having more skill points than you need, also, isn't the point.

A template will have a permanently higher skill point ceiling, in comparison to other characters on live.

The point is, that's actually very unique and unusual.

Additionally, awarding achievements was how they got into this mess in the first place. So, it does kinda follow, that it's something ZOS is hesitant to muck with.

Now, it's not a no brainer, but the offer of a template was a bit more considerate than most people seem to have realized. Though, it's entirely understandable why they would want to turn that offer down.

An extra 20 or 30 skill points and having to spend thousands of hours to re-get achievements you already earned? I think not.

Think of the hours of simple RNG farming needed to get things like Master Angler and Monster Trophies

The time gate of Black Market Mogul

The (nearly) unending slog of getting Grand Overlord

The timing and cooperation of dozens needed to get Emperor.

The group needed to get Godslayer, Tick-Tock Tormenter, etc... "Oh, ZoS gave me this template, but I need all the achievements I had before, so our raid group (and the 11 other people) is going to have to go back and get all of them"

My main character tanks, heals, dps and is a master crafter. I have 50 skill points extra.

It might take me 20-30 hours of playtime to get enough skill points to do that on a new character.

It would take easily 30 times that long to get back all the achievements that character has.

(Also, nowhere was it said that it would go above the skill point cap. Most likely they'd just unlock the skyshards for them so they could quickly kit out that new character)

I get why the game doesn't perpetually back up the game, it's literally updating every second of every day that the servers are on. I struggle to understand why they don't do weekly/monthly/per-patch database backups. And why at the first sign of a "problem", they didn't immediately go to one of those.

I too would have rejected this "template", it's an unacceptable solution to the problem.

ApoAlaia

tmbrinks wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Coatmagic wrote: »

Think the worst part of this is that even suppose there were no back-ups or whatever they claim, there is such a thing as just templates. Could have just tossed the person one after putting them through all of this.

They were offered a template, and turned it down.

The template didn't have the achievements, which is obviously more important than the skill points because it represents years of work

You can earn achievements, you cannot earn unsourced skill points.

You don't need that many skill points. Having more points than he'd ever even bother to use doesn't compensate 7 years of lost effort

If you already learned what to do, it doesn't take seven years to do the achievements.

Having more skill points than you need, also, isn't the point.

A template will have a permanently higher skill point ceiling, in comparison to other characters on live.

The point is, that's actually very unique and unusual.

Additionally, awarding achievements was how they got into this mess in the first place. So, it does kinda follow, that it's something ZOS is hesitant to muck with.

Now, it's not a no brainer, but the offer of a template was a bit more considerate than most people seem to have realized. Though, it's entirely understandable why they would want to turn that offer down.

An extra 20 or 30 skill points and having to spend thousands of hours to re-get achievements you already earned? I think not.

Think of the hours of simple RNG farming needed to get things like Master Angler and Monster Trophies

The time gate of Black Market Mogul

The (nearly) unending slog of getting Grand Overlord

The timing and cooperation of dozens needed to get Emperor.

The group needed to get Godslayer, Tick-Tock Tormenter, etc... "Oh, ZoS gave me this template, but I need all the achievements I had before, so our raid group (and the 11 other people) is going to have to go back and get all of them"

My main character tanks, heals, dps and is a master crafter. I have 50 skill points extra.

It might take me 20-30 hours of playtime to get enough skill points to do that on a new character.

It would take easily 30 times that long to get back all the achievements that character has.

(Also, nowhere was it said that it would go above the skill point cap. Most likely they'd just unlock the skyshards for them so they could quickly kit out that new character)

I get why the game doesn't perpetually back up the game, it's literally updating every second of every day that the servers are on. I struggle to understand why they don't do weekly/monthly/per-patch database backups. And why at the first sign of a "problem", they didn't immediately go to one of those.

I too would have rejected this "template", it's an unacceptable solution to the problem.

It is not often that I find myself agreeing with you but this is one of those occasions.

I have nothing further to add, I think you have raised all the relevant points.

Given that he game is very deliberately designed to get people invested the least they could do is take steps to protect player's investment in the game.

Seems to me that they have the concept of 'habit loop' down to a T but then show a callous disregard for mental anguish, which IMO is irresponsible to say the least.

spartaxoxo

tmbrinks wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Coatmagic wrote: »

Think the worst part of this is that even suppose there were no back-ups or whatever they claim, there is such a thing as just templates. Could have just tossed the person one after putting them through all of this.

They were offered a template, and turned it down.

The template didn't have the achievements, which is obviously more important than the skill points because it represents years of work

You can earn achievements, you cannot earn unsourced skill points.

You don't need that many skill points. Having more points than he'd ever even bother to use doesn't compensate 7 years of lost effort

If you already learned what to do, it doesn't take seven years to do the achievements.

Having more skill points than you need, also, isn't the point.

A template will have a permanently higher skill point ceiling, in comparison to other characters on live.

The point is, that's actually very unique and unusual.

Additionally, awarding achievements was how they got into this mess in the first place. So, it does kinda follow, that it's something ZOS is hesitant to muck with.

Now, it's not a no brainer, but the offer of a template was a bit more considerate than most people seem to have realized. Though, it's entirely understandable why they would want to turn that offer down.

An extra 20 or 30 skill points and having to spend thousands of hours to re-get achievements you already earned? I think not.

Think of the hours of simple RNG farming needed to get things like Master Angler and Monster Trophies

The time gate of Black Market Mogul

The (nearly) unending slog of getting Grand Overlord

The timing and cooperation of dozens needed to get Emperor.

The group needed to get Godslayer, Tick-Tock Tormenter, etc... "Oh, ZoS gave me this template, but I need all the achievements I had before, so our raid group (and the 11 other people) is going to have to go back and get all of them"

My main character tanks, heals, dps and is a master crafter. I have 50 skill points extra.

It might take me 20-30 hours of playtime to get enough skill points to do that on a new character.

It would take easily 30 times that long to get back all the achievements that character has.

(Also, nowhere was it said that it would go above the skill point cap. Most likely they'd just unlock the skyshards for them so they could quickly kit out that new character)

I get why the game doesn't perpetually back up the game, it's literally updating every second of every day that the servers are on. I struggle to understand why they don't do weekly/monthly/per-patch database backups. And why at the first sign of a "problem", they didn't immediately go to one of those.

I too would have rejected this "template", it's an unacceptable solution to the problem.

Exactly what I was trying to say, better than I said it. Great post.

starkerealm

Coatmagic wrote: »

When I said they should just give you a template, I was referring to the ones like PTS has that are basically achiev flagged to have all the various dyes/costumes etc unlocked. Meaning there is such a thing available, is what I was getting at anyway.

The achievement rewards are, technically, distinct from the achievements themselves. AFIAK, they never lost their achievement rewards on other characters. So, the only thing they'd be farming achievements for would be the associated titles (or unlocks they hadn't previously earned.) They would have lost progress on achievements, which is unfortunate, but stuff like dyes and skins are technically distinct from the achievements.

tmbrinks

.

babedenny

CristyRazvan wrote: »

The update was 4 days ago and the problem itself is 10 months old.
As an IT guy i don't get it how can someone proceed with an action that can mess things up without taking a backup first.

It's probably not as simple as just backing up /etc or a user directory. There's going to be local files, database files, ad infinitum.

Now, if I were about to edit a config file, yes, I'm going to at least back a backup copy before I do. I imagine this was a lot more complex, and simply restoring a snapshot isn't going to put humpty dumpty back together again.

I'm not excusing it. I'm just saying that complex systems are not as simple as just backing up a drive or a user profile.

redspecter23

The idea of extra skill points sounds great in theory, but ZOS has in the past gone in and reevaluated skill points to give the "proper" amount after situations where extra or fewer skill points were on accounts. Even if a template could have been created with extra skill points, you would always be wondering when ZOS might come along and sweep the servers again looking for anomalies and set everyone to appropriate amounts of skill points.

It's a non issue as the OP declined the offer, but figured it should be stated that even if this unique bonus were added, it could be removed intentionally or unintentionally at any time and I suspect the OP would not be inclined to ask customer support to fix anything in the future if given the choice.

starkerealm

redspecter23 wrote: »

The idea of extra skill points sounds great in theory, but ZOS has in the past gone in and reevaluated skill points to give the "proper" amount after situations where extra or fewer skill points were on accounts. Even if a template could have been created with extra skill points, you would always be wondering when ZOS might come along and sweep the servers again looking for anomalies and set everyone to appropriate amounts of skill points.

It's a non issue as the OP declined the offer, but figured it should be stated that even if this unique bonus were added, it could be removed intentionally or unintentionally at any time and I suspect the OP would not be inclined to ask customer support to fix anything in the future if given the choice.

There's only been one, "reevaluation" pass that I'm aware of. So, once in seven years. I don't know if there's some, behind the scenes indicator that awards those skill points, or if they're simply hand keyed into the character, though I suspect it's the latter. But, yeah, that is the one major weakness of that offer.

Like I've said a couple times, it's not an easy choice. If your character you've played for years is gone, does the idea of a template to get you up and going again seem like a reasonable attempt to make things right? Personally, I'm not sure I'd take that offer either.

EDIT: That said, I am glad @Yormula is getting their account back. I know I've sounded a bit pessimistic in here, but I really did not expect that ZOS still cared about this incident, and it's good to see Kevin saying that ZOS is still working on getting their account repaired.

Yormula

Well, can confirm that the most recent update unlocked the character, which does seem intact upon brief examination (except for the empty craft bag and the achievement that started it all).

OutLaw_Nynx

Awesome!

spartaxoxo

Yormula wrote: »

Well, can confirm that the most recent update unlocked the character, which does seem intact upon brief examination (except for the empty craft bag and the achievement that started it all).

What server are you on? Maybe I can send you some mats

Sylvermynx

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Yormula wrote: »

Well, can confirm that the most recent update unlocked the character, which does seem intact upon brief examination (except for the empty craft bag and the achievement that started it all).

What server are you on? Maybe I can send you some mats

Me too - unless it's console.... either PC server though - max level mats, right?

Togal

Did you manage to get your stuff back?

Yormula

spartaxoxo wrote: »

What server are you on? Maybe I can send you some mats

Thanks for the offer, but no worries - this is still an open ticket, and even if it doesn't get resolved this part I can at least fix by myself.

Edit: it actually just got resolved as well.

Togal wrote: »

Did you manage to get your stuff back?

Gear - yes, although thanks to the collection system this would also be a relatively minor issue.

OutLaw_Nynx

So happy for you!

Arunei

While I'm glad that OP's character has been restored (so far as they can tell) and that we had some genuine communication from ZOS, it feels like it shouldn't have taken quite this long to get a resolution. Going on 10 months is a long time for a problem like this to be "worked on", and while it's very possible they've been working all this time to get things back in order, the side of me that knows what ZOS is like feels like the only reason it's been fixed is because of the outcry in this thread. I would love to be wrong about that, but eh, I suppose the important thing is that it's at least fixed.

@starkerealm
While this is a moot thing now, I'd like to point out that a majority of us, had we been in OP's position, would have likely turned down a basic CP160 template with all the skill lines unlocked that had nothing else going for it. OP's character had almost all the motifs, and based on that and the mention of the craft bag, I'd assume this character like also had a large number of recipes and likely furnishing Blueprints as well. If this was their crafter, and they've been playing for years, that also means more than likely the character is a Master Crafter. The numerous achievement-locked furnishings require those achievements on a specific character, they aren't account-wide rewards such as dyes or Costumes that you can buy on another character even if they don't have that achievement.

Getting an empty template that only gives you a max level character with maxed skill lines is nowhere near as important as getting a template that would give you back all that other stuff you lost, and settling for a blank template is basically the same as not having the situation resolved at all, since the character you have now has basically none of the progression your borked character did. Let's also not forget things like however much gold that borked character might have been carrying, and what might have been in their inventory that was rare, expensive, took a lot of time to get, or any combination of those. All of that stuff, along with the other stuff I mentioned, are so so so much more important. At the end of the day I'm very glad OP didn't have to settle for something that was practically a non-solution, but if this had happened to most others, they'd have likely refused the template as well.

csparks1

Wow This sounds like nightmare!! I sure hope now that with 14 pages of replies by people in the community that they can finally get this fixed. SO SORRY this has happened!

Inval1d

Yormula wrote: »

Well, can confirm that the most recent update unlocked the character, which does seem intact upon brief examination (except for the empty craft bag and the achievement that started it all).

Which achievement it was anyways?