Official PAY 2 WIN (grand overlord)

Xarc

the game turned into a pretext to sell stuff, instead of selling fun.

what about sets from dlc you can use to do a better dps ingame ? (Relequen etc ?)

if ony buyable better stuff isnt p2w
if buyable xp boost isnt p2w
if buyable ap boost isnt p2w
if buyable complete skill lines isnt p2w

at what moment do we consider something is pay 2 win so ?

Guys, wake up !

techyeshic

I don't think it's pay to win, but as I sit here trying to stick to my templar even though I feel I can do better with my other characters right now, but I want to finally get 1to grand overlord; I feel like it's been cheapened.

Really not ZOS fault though. I've played my templar mostly since launch, but have played every other class particularly a lot when AOE testing happened, don't play every day or very long usually when I do, and have taken breaks. I just set it as a goal when I got close, around General when I then saw Torte and now overlord when I saw this.

I probably should just use it myself as. It feels watered down anyway.

Pajor

Not pay to win if you cant kill any enemies lol

techyeshic

Pajor wrote: »

Not pay to win if you cant kill any enemies lol

You don't have to even fight to get AP. You don't even have to be present for the fight if you show up and get repairs. There's doesn't even have to be a recent fight, as you can repair upgrades from the mine.

Kiralyn2000

Xarc wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

What is win ?

Yea this, having a high pvp rank does not make you better at pvp, so what is the win?

so what is win ?

Is it only considered as win when you 're able to kill other people ? Why do you kill other people ? to get points ? why getting points ? To get ranks ? Why getting pvp ranks ?
So why getting ranks faster isnt considered as win ?

(and btw I think buyable XP scrolls is the same)

"Pay to Win" is when you give cash, and you get a literal/direct/otherwise-unobtainable Power Advantage over other players who do not give cash. Like, weapons and armor that are more powerful than those available in-game, so you can best your opponents in direct competition (i.e, fighting other people in PvP, or topping PvE leaderboards).

Even ignoring whether some particular item in this game is "p2w", the fact that you can obtain these thing with gold (via Crown Gifting) makes it almost impossible for anything to BE p2w, because...

...you can get crown shop items without actual cash. Which means you're not forced to pay cash to remain competitive.

And that's the core of "pay to win" - it's a game where you are forced to pay cash if you want to remain in competition. Those old/awful open-world/ffa "loot the bodies" PvP f2p MMOs. Those stupid "build your base, and attack other players' bases" mobile games. Etc.



A simple XP boost scroll, especially when you can get them so easily without cash, isn't remotely "pay to win".

Xarc

another question is :

will we get AP boost scroll in daily reward ? AS we get xp boost sometimes

zvavi

Xarc wrote: »

another question is :

will we get AP boost scroll in daily reward ? AS we get xp boost sometimes

Omfg more trash in daily rewards, uhhhh

nukk3r

SamaelHQ wrote: »

If it effects the leaderboard and will get you to Emperor relatively easier than others, yes it could be considered as pay to win. However, if it only affects the skill line and rank progressions then who cares.

During the last 2x AP event, AP boost food affected the leaderboards tho. Not sure if it was intended.

JKorr

virtus753 wrote: »

This is a curious choice of line to draw.

Why is Grand Overlord “winning” but not something that represents in-game power, like the CP cap? (There have been XP boosting scrolls for ages.)

Grand Overlord grants a title, an icon, and the right to buy a furnishing. If that’s winning, then selling houses in the crown store is more pay 2 win — at least those include the furnishings in the cost and don’t make you work to decorate.

ETA: Forgot the GO achievement. Of which buying a house in the crown store can earn you several.

Before boosting scrolls there was psijic ambrosia. There have been whines, rants, pleading, and demands for faster levelling since release. Those nefarious pre-order people got the totally unfair advantage of early release, getting an unfair advantage of whole *hours* of playing time to get ahead of everyone who had to wait until release, don't you know. /sarcasm

Veles

I think that the author does not understand the meaning of the words 'PAY 2 WIN".

The only sacred meaning to sell these scrolls would be more correct to call
Pay to Pay.

magnusthorek

I *might* buy it and try to get the Legate Dye skin. Void Pitch Black still sucks

Jaimeh

I don't consider it p2w because there are equivalent items obtainable from game. I do consider it zos being greedy though, because they made the in-game items ridiculously hard to get. For both the 100% and 150% versions you need the actual recipe of the previous tier (and not just the drink, like in ambrosias) and a rare item to make the new recipe, plus a rare item to craft the drink. In practice most people will use the in-game 50% one, making the CS offerings more attractive.

DMuehlhausen

Jierdanit wrote: »

And what exactly about that is pay2win now?

The only thing it helps you with is getting high alliance ranks faster and leveling Assault and Support faster.
Neither of which really seems to be pay2win to me.

It's not but people want to complain for sake of complaining.

tauriel01

wow, the things people think of to complain about when the servers are down

The_Lex

It's not pay to win. Grand Overlords are easy enough to kill now, given how many got it through Zergs and Ball Groups. These scrolls will make more GOs who are easy pickings. Could be pay to lose.

VaranisArano

Hmm. When I was PVPing at my max time spent back in Vivec, I was making about 200k a night, so roughly 100k AP/hour not counting MYM and such.

I'm at Legate now, so without checking my exact AP total, I'm around 30,500,000 AP.

To get to Grand Overlord, I need roughly another 35 million AP.

Without Scrolls, at my top rate (and I'm no longer raiding multiple times a week), I'd take 350 hours or at my weekly pace, 58 weeks. About another year of hardcore PVP for me, give or take for MYM grinding and bad performance. I miss a lot more ticks due to crashes than I used to back in Vivec.

With these 150% Scrolls, I'd be making, what, 250k AP per hour? For the low, low price of 140 Scrolls, I could drop the time to 24 weeks, or half a year of hardcore playing for me, give or take MYM.

Now, I don't know the cost of 140 Scrolls, but I can make a pretty good guess that:
A. Anyone who's going to pay for AP Scrolls to make Grand Overlord faster already had the desire to play a LOT of hardcore PVP and AP hunting. Complaining about making GO easier is pretty silly when ZOS has already cut the AP requirements for it before.

B. To get your money's worth, you'd better already be making lots of AP. These might be really worth it during Midyear Mayhem (if you don't crash out during long battles and miss the giant AP ticks), but if you aren't good at getting AP, they aren't worth it to use to shorten your grind once you get past the easy, early ranks.

C. I don't remember if these affect the Leaderboards, which would be my only concern. The race for Emperorship is the only time that PVPers actually compete in terms of AP totals.

Finally, Grand Overlord is great bragging rights as an achievement, but it can be a bit of a two edged sword. Story time: my raid lead got Grand Overlord and started wearing the title proudly, as you do, right? Then they started dying. Dying in battles, dying in skirmishes, just dying a lot more than they used to. We figured out that enemy players where targeting the Grand Overlord because there's a dye you get for killing one - all the achievement hunters would see that title and think "Gotta kill that player!" So our raid lead swapped their title to a lower rank and stopped dying.


TLDR: If you buy Scrolls to get Grand Overlord faster, it's going to be a very expensive way to grind hardcore for an achievement that takes over 64 million AP. You'd better be good at farming AP if you want your money's worth.

Marcus_Aurelius

You can have the same boost just palying the game: White-Gold War Torte

Elsonso

We crossed a line already with the buyable Skyshards, which come with skill points.
This? Anti-climax.

Raptorcorn

Isn't buying the game in the first place pay2win? You pay for the game and playing the game is winning so pay2win.

tmbrinks

If they work the same as the war tortes (which I assume they will)

They boost your Alliance Rank - NOT the AP you receive (so no P2W, you don't get anything extra)

They do NOT boost your leaderboard ranking - if they have, it was a bug and was fixed (no P2W)

I used the 150% tortes during MYM to grind up to GO for the achievements and the ability to buy some of the furnishings, earning about 23 million points towards GO (but only about 10 million AP since that is not boosted)

There's nothing about these that are P2W. Considering that the idea of P2W is a spectrum, there are dozens of things that are "more P2W" (XP scrolls, which affect CP, which affect character power, skyshards, skill lines, which affect power). None of these are actually P2W since they are all obtainable in-game.

Are these pay-to-play less, yes. Pay-to-win, no.

Ishtarknows

Xarc wrote: »

Getting achievements easier and faster isnt p2w?

Not unless you also consider spending in game gold on Colovian War tortes from guild stores pay to win too?

Or did you react without knowing there's an equivalent item available in game?

olsborg

Xarc wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Xarc wrote: »

What is win ?

Yea this, having a high pvp rank does not make you better at pvp, so what is the win?

so what is win ?

Is it only considered as win when you 're able to kill other people ? Why do you kill other people ? to get points ? why getting points ? To get ranks ? Why getting pvp ranks ?
So why getting ranks faster isnt considered as win ?

(and btw I think buyable XP scrolls is the same)

No, technically p2w is only if you get a combat-advantage over your oponent, like if GO rank gave you 5% dmg increase, but it doesnt, its a vanity rank, 5 star or not, same with the mounts you can have..or skins etc, its just a vanity.

neverwalk

Nothing in ESO is P2W, being playing since BETA.

Athan1

Another click-bait thread. Exp scrolls aren't p2w

AinSoph

Pay to win what? A cosmetic title?

rotaugen454

PTW is if they sell something to speed up getting forum stars....

Jem_Kindheart

There's a fundamental difference in Pay to Win and Pay-to-be-Lazy. The game has long embraced Pay-to-be-Lazy and we all pretty much have gotten used to it and are okay with it.

Examples are: buying skyshard or skill lines unlocked, buying XP scrolls (lol when they give you free ones but I imagine people do), buying horse training packs, stuff like that. None of this makes you "win" anything. You don't get stronger gear, better DPS, etc. It's paying for convenience.

Alliance scrolls are just an extension of that. They're not selling you some special overpowered weapon for dollars like other games do.

Even with whatever scrolls and buffs they can think up, getting to 5-Star general takes a couple years of pretty much living in Cyrodiil all day, every day. I know this for a fact because I watched my friends do it. You don't just waltz in there with your 150% scroll and get 5-Star in a week.

Imagine what better "winning" gear those players could have farmed up in two years if they were doing PVE instead of Cyrodiil all day every day. Believe me, they do not report feeling like they are "winning" lol. It's a lot of long hours and hard work! They're not doing it for the outfit color, furnishing, and title.

xv1_me

Mayrael wrote: »

Why I am not surprised? -_-' You know what will be next? Companion XP scrolls! Let's introduce some new grindy mechanic and sell stuff to speed it up.

Their xp already boosts when we drink ambrosia

mikey_reach

Not pay to win but pay to have an edge. Which i guess its fine.

xv1_me

Hymzir wrote: »

, everyone who actually plays PVP regularly has millions of it sitting idle,

Idk if this is true. I know myself I blow ap on camps and keep stones. Now I just sell dawn prism but it’s hard to even buy ap from people. Either they just holding onto it until someone offers them and absurd rate or they just feel cool have millions sitting around.