Macro

furiouslog

JanTanhide wrote: »

Primidone wrote: »

What’s ZOS’s stance on macro? Plenty of ppl in my high-end PvE guild are using macros to make their rotation perfect. They said ZOS doesn’t care as long as you don’t use third-party softwares. But if you have macros built in your hardware, it’s totally ok. Is this true?

Macro's don't work. Combat is never the same and is fluid in motion. Using a Macro to get through a combat engagement will get your character killed quickly. Anyone telling you Macros work is pulling your leg.

I guess you "could" setup a Macro to do a standard rotation on a Dummy but why would you? It's not a check or test of a combat engagement at all.

This reminds me of a certain streamer who was pulling high DPS on the Trial dummy and of course bragging about it. One day he and three other Streamers got together for Scalecaller Peak in Vet. It was the funniest thing I ever saw. The streamer died over and over and over with his high DPS. Standing in red with all that dps just didn't work.

But to the point: I do think it violates T.O.S. since you are automating the game. I would never do it not just because I think it violates T.O.S. but because it doesn't work.

My two cents.

I do not agree with your assessment. I have volumes of encounter logs from Cyrodiil where it is incredibly obvious that the players are using macros. The most prevalent of these is in a [snip] stamsorc build, which I suspect is using Fortified Brass in medium, and Beekeepers J/W. They are firing off the following pattern of skills in the same way every time without any variation or error, all within a 3 second time period:

Heavy Attack
Dizzying Swing
Heavy Attack
Dizzying Swing
Heavy Attack
Executioner

This sequence of skills typically shows up as three attacks on your recap screen, so you don't even know that you got hit with 3 heavies along with the DS/DS/E, so it's impossible to detect unless you are running logs. This combo does so much damage that it allows stamsorcs to run super defensive gear and live for ages, just avoiding and avoiding, and waiting to launch that combo. When you look at the logs, you see it go the same every time. 3 heavies, 2 dizzies, and Executioner, all perfectly fired within the space of 3 seconds, every single time. Every time. No difference. The APM of these players is often well over 100 during the most active parts of the fight, and this is in Cyrodiil during a lagfest. During those times, I often spend 3 seconds just getting Break Free to actually fire when I hit it. For reference, really good players who are clearly not cheating (because they make the occasional mistake or actually die when fighting against 10 players) usually appear to top out at 70-90 APM.

In addition, I've also seen channeled attacks get automatically blocked or roll dodged, and sometimes while they are simultaneously attacking. Players are running and streaking around at high speeds, and the only time that they block or roll is when one of these attacks get thrown at them. It's not hard to figure out what's going on there. Miat's addon used to post a notification on screen when there was an incoming channel that let players react, and that notification capability was removed from the addon, but somehow it's still happening.

If they were doing this in a resource tower, I wouldn't really care so much. You can just ignore them and ride off. The problem is that a group of three stamsorcs/stamdens can come into a keep and hold it down for 15-20 minutes while a faction with 15-20 players inside tries to chase them and clear them out, creating a long enough distraction that others in their faction can go attack other keeps without sufficient opposition. If you leave them there, they wait for you to go, and then take the keep from the inside, easily ganking anyone who comes through the door one at a time. If a team then gets sent to deal with them, it's back to the start with playing ring around the rosy in a corner tower for 15 minutes. It's unbelievably harmful to the game, and I wish ZOS would make an example of some of these people, because even after multiple reports and tickets submitted, many of them are still running around unchallenged, making boatloads of AP by killing players who can't compete with that level of automation. I don't know how much proof ZOS needs to ban these people, but I wish they'd tell us so that we could provide it.

It's not like everyone is doing this, but it's really obvious when it's happening, and most players I run with don't have the time or ability to diagnose the issue. They just know that they were standing there one second, and three seconds later they're dead. They say "WTF?" in Discord, and we all unhappily move on with our lives.

So yes, macros work, and they are definitely being used in the game.

[edited to remove inappropriate content]

Hamiltonmath

Why would there be an audio clue when people use a macro? That really doesn't make sense.

Ackwalan

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

Why would there be an audio clue when people use a macro? That really doesn't make sense.

Attacks have a sound, when the attacks are to close together, the audio cliches and you can hear the difference.

Sanctum74

Macros can’t bypass the global cool down, they don’t make sounds, and they can’t change their input delay on the fly to account for lag and skill delay.

I can see them being effective in low lag pve, but in pvp they would not be reliable and would greatly affect the ability to react putting the user at a great disadvantage.

Ackwalan

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Macros can’t bypass the global cool down, they don’t make sounds, and they can’t change their input delay on the fly to account for lag and skill delay.

I can see them being effective in low lag pve, but in pvp they would not be reliable and would greatly affect the ability to react putting the user at a great disadvantage.

No one said macros have sound. Attacks have sound and macros can cliche the sound.

furiouslog

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Macros can’t bypass the global cool down, they don’t make sounds, and they can’t change their input delay on the fly to account for lag and skill delay.

I can see them being effective in low lag pve, but in pvp they would not be reliable and would greatly affect the ability to react putting the user at a great disadvantage.

I have plenty of evidence to the contrary, as previously mentioned. You are speculating. Provide data to support your position.

Sanctum74

Ackwalan wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Macros can’t bypass the global cool down, they don’t make sounds, and they can’t change their input delay on the fly to account for lag and skill delay.

I can see them being effective in low lag pve, but in pvp they would not be reliable and would greatly affect the ability to react putting the user at a great disadvantage.

No one said macros have sound. Attacks have sound and macros can cliche the sound.

Wrong, macros can not change the global cool down so the spacing between skill sounds can not be changed. Sounds more like a desync not a macro.

Ackwalan

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Macros can’t bypass the global cool down, they don’t make sounds, and they can’t change their input delay on the fly to account for lag and skill delay.

I can see them being effective in low lag pve, but in pvp they would not be reliable and would greatly affect the ability to react putting the user at a great disadvantage.

No one said macros have sound. Attacks have sound and macros can cliche the sound.

Wrong, macros can not change the global cool down so the spacing between skill sounds can not be changed. Sounds more like a desync not a macro.

It's not about global cool down either. Macros can cliche the audio.

LashanW

Ackwalan wrote: »

Hamiltonmath wrote: »

Why would there be an audio clue when people use a macro? That really doesn't make sense.

Attacks have a sound, when the attacks are to close together, the audio cliches and you can hear the difference.

Attacks can only be as close together as GCD allows it. So does that mean this audio cue you mention can also be heard when someone is doing a perfect rotation (with perfect weaving) ?

If that's the case, how do you know if someone is using a macro or they are just excellent with their rotation?

furiouslog

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Macros can’t bypass the global cool down, they don’t make sounds, and they can’t change their input delay on the fly to account for lag and skill delay.

I can see them being effective in low lag pve, but in pvp they would not be reliable and would greatly affect the ability to react putting the user at a great disadvantage.

No one said macros have sound. Attacks have sound and macros can cliche the sound.

Wrong, macros can not change the global cool down so the spacing between skill sounds can not be changed. Sounds more like a desync not a macro.

I've been one shotted off my mount before by bow gankers. The sounds I get when that happens is a string of attacks fires off that all kludges together in a big WHOMP sound, and then the death sound. It could be a legitimate desync, but when it happens over and over again consistently from the same player, it's obvious that they are using a lag switch, which basically forces the desync by momentarily interrupting the connection during the attack, and then re-enabling it at the end of the attack sequence. There are third party programs that allow you to hotkey this interruption so that it can be looped into a macro.

Earthewen

As you can see from an above post, ZOS does indeed have a policy regarding macros. However, the lack of enforcement of that policy leads to an out of control environment where most people who do it just laugh and say, "So, what! ZOS won't do anything about it."

Indeed, one cannot argue the point.

Sanctum74

furiouslog wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Macros can’t bypass the global cool down, they don’t make sounds, and they can’t change their input delay on the fly to account for lag and skill delay.

I can see them being effective in low lag pve, but in pvp they would not be reliable and would greatly affect the ability to react putting the user at a great disadvantage.

I have plenty of evidence to the contrary, as previously mentioned. You are speculating. Provide data to support your position.

The evidence you provided proves my point. Skill cool downs are server side so it’s impossible to get that many abilities off in 3 seconds. You were clearly desynced, hurricane is very common for doing this.

You also mention attacks being automatically blocked or roll dodged. A macro can’t react it can only do what it’s programmed to. Sounds like you’re just playing against better players and/or they have better internet.

Soul_Demon

Primidone wrote: »

What’s ZOS’s stance on macro? Plenty of ppl in my high-end PvE guild are using macros to make their rotation perfect. They said ZOS doesn’t care as long as you don’t use third-party softwares. But if you have macros built in your hardware, it’s totally ok. Is this true?

No...its against the TOS and definitely not allowed. But, ZOS doesn't check for macro's or cheats in their game....AT ALL EVER. So, what they are telling you is rules they have are only there but not anyone behind looking into it and stopping it.

furiouslog

Sanctum74 wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Macros can’t bypass the global cool down, they don’t make sounds, and they can’t change their input delay on the fly to account for lag and skill delay.

I can see them being effective in low lag pve, but in pvp they would not be reliable and would greatly affect the ability to react putting the user at a great disadvantage.

I have plenty of evidence to the contrary, as previously mentioned. You are speculating. Provide data to support your position.

The evidence you provided proves my point. Skill cool downs are server side so it’s impossible to get that many abilities off in 3 seconds. You were clearly desynced, hurricane is very common for doing this.

You also mention attacks being automatically blocked or roll dodged. A macro can’t react it can only do what it’s programmed to. Sounds like you’re just playing against better players and/or they have better internet.

I know that this is not the case, because the player attacks applied to my toon reported in encounter logs are coming from the server. If there was a desync, it would manifest as a time gap in the activation and application of skills. There are no gaps. Here is a snippet from the logs:



The sequence of events and casts by this player goes on perfectly within the global cooldown parameters apart from that combo, and there is no delay or space between casts. This went on for over two minutes. Perfect casts. Every channeled attack either blocked or dodged without error. This player is not a NA resident, so I don't think it's the connection. I live in a metro area, and have Fios gigabit. My speeds and routes to the server are great, but I still get performance lag.

If you have an alternative explanation for these results, I'd love to hear it.

EDIT: For clarification, auto blocking and roll dodging used to be a thing, because the API used to report when a channeled skill was being applied to the player client side. This is why Raid Notifier can tell you that you have Taking Aim on you. It used to be that Miat's addon would put a similar notice on screen if you had been targeted by a player for a channeled attack, so you'd see the notice and you could block or dodge. If you can script an event to post a notice on screen, you can also use that event information to script something that executes a command. That's different than the "macros" we are talking about where one keybind is set to execute multiple commands, but the principle is the same in that it's scripted - but here it is an automated tool that detects an event and executes a scripted response.

Earthewen

Sanctum74 wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Macros can’t bypass the global cool down, they don’t make sounds, and they can’t change their input delay on the fly to account for lag and skill delay.

I can see them being effective in low lag pve, but in pvp they would not be reliable and would greatly affect the ability to react putting the user at a great disadvantage.

I have plenty of evidence to the contrary, as previously mentioned. You are speculating. Provide data to support your position.

The evidence you provided proves my point. Skill cool downs are server side so it’s impossible to get that many abilities off in 3 seconds. You were clearly desynced, hurricane is very common for doing this.

You also mention attacks being automatically blocked or roll dodged. A macro can’t react it can only do what it’s programmed to. Sounds like you’re just playing against better players and/or they have better internet.

Take a look at @furiouslog's statement and I can back that up with logs as well. I read a log just the other day of a fight we had with a specific ball group. One individual stood out immediately and it was rather easy to see ... the player averaged over an 11 minute time frame a single cast every 0.7 seconds. That is with interruptions, negates, etc. They were never ever longer than 0.7 seconds between casts. The idea that they could continue that over an 11 minute fight without fail or interruption is beyond belief.

One might be able to believe that a person could do this over a short period of time like 2 or 3 minutes, but not for 11 minutes without fail. These casts were also not varied ... They appear to be the same rotation each and every single time without fail.

Sanctum74

If you both have such overwhelming evidence then report the players. If they are cheating then they’d be gone, if not then it’s just another witch hunt as usual.

Earthewen

Sanctum74 wrote: »

If you both have such overwhelming evidence then report the players. If they are cheating then they’d be gone, if not then it’s just another witch hunt as usual.

This is actually laughable. Of course, players have been reported. But as I stated earlier, we all know nothing will happen. The same players are here, doing the same things they always have, and nothing has changed. We even have had computer programmers actually track down the cheaters with her own addon and reported it. The same players are still here ... so, I'm not really why you think the players wouldn't be here if they were cheating somehow.

furiouslog

Sanctum74 wrote: »

If you both have such overwhelming evidence then report the players. If they are cheating then they’d be gone, if not then it’s just another witch hunt as usual.

I'm pretty sure that one is gone (and I know that it was an alt account for a player who is still around). I can't confirm it one way or the other, because ZOS rightly keeps account issues private. Others that have been reported repeatedly are clearly not banned. This is what I was talking about in the prior post - how much proof does ZOS need to ban these people? I'm seriously asking.

I don't know what threshold an exploitative player needs to pass before it's just obvious that something fishy is going on. I don't know what evidence ZOS needs, or what tools they have to help them diagnose cheating. I don't know how much work I'm supposed to do to support my claim. Your dismissive attitude towards the problem, which I'm filing under "L2P", demonstrates an unwillingness to even entertain the likelihood that there are cheaters who use macros in PVP, and just because ZOS elects not to ban the player does not mean that they are not cheating, it just means that there was not enough evidence to ban a player who is probably contributing to the bottom line.

You further dismiss that it's even possible to cheat, but when confronted with evidence, you provide no alternative explanation that rationalizes the logs, falling back on "if ZOS says it's cheating then I'll believe it". This is apathetic, and it just allows the problem to persist. But let's follow your train of thought.

The player from that log has been reported numerous times, by multiple players. They are not banned. Ergo, based on your logic, they are not cheating. Since, by that logic, it has been definitely determined that they are not cheating, please explain that log to me and how it's an intended and legal part of the game.

furiouslog

*double post*

Soul_Demon

furiouslog wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

If you both have such overwhelming evidence then report the players. If they are cheating then they’d be gone, if not then it’s just another witch hunt as usual.

I'm pretty sure that one is gone (and I know that it was an alt account for a player who is still around). I can't confirm that one way or the other. Others are not. This is what I was talking about in the prior post - how much proof does ZOS need to ban these people?

I don't know what threshold an exploitative player needs to pass before it's just obvious that something fishy is going on. I don't know what evidence ZOS needs, or what tools they have to help them diagnose cheating. I don't know how much work I'm supposed to do to support my claim. Your dismissive attitude towards the problem, which I'm filing under "L2P", demonstrates an unwillingness to even entertain the likelihood that there are cheaters who use macros in PVP, and just because ZOS elects not to ban the player does not mean that they are not cheating, it just means that there was not enough evidence to ban a player who is probably contributing to the bottom line.

You further dismiss that it's even possible to cheat, but when confronted with evidence, you provide no alternative explanation that rationalizes the logs, falling back on "if ZOS says it's cheating then I'll believe it". This is apathetic, and it just allows the problem to persist. But let's follow your train of thought.

The player from that log has been reported numerous times, by multiple players. They are not banned. Ergo, based on your logic, they are not cheating. Since, by that logic, it has been definitely determined that they are not cheating, please explain that log to me and how it's an intended and legal part of the game.

Yeah, might be on 3 day permanent suspension...but odds are they are right back after that to be honest....would not be the first time. As far as not knowing, that is by design. Think about it a second, ZOS uses the players in game to monitor other players for violations, requires YOU provide them with overwhelming and irrefutable proof of this, and then requires you report it to third party company who has financial interest in NOT reporting up to the business for looking incompetent to handle things. And the cherry on top is no naming and shaming in forums and refusal to tell you the outcome of anything......its the perfect set up to when nothing happens to keep anyone from noticing.

Sanctum74

If I’ve had a dismissive attitude it’s because the thread was originally about macros and then it got changed to a lag switch and now you’re talking about a cheat engine to be able to bypass the cool down. You guys have been all over the place with this obsession.

Maybe I’m naive because I play on console and haven’t seen any cheating in 7 years of daily play, but that doesn’t change the fact of what the original op was about. A macro can not bypass the cool down and it’s just not going to work reliably with lag and skill delay.

With that being said the desyncs started getting bad when they tried to fix the desyncs from block canceling which rarely happened and instead now almost every skill can cause a desync including seige. I just got done leveling up a stamplar and I can’t count how many times I was able to desync npc’s using nothing but jabs. The game is broke, that’s my opinion you are entitled to yours.

Soul_Demon

Primidone wrote: »

What’s ZOS’s stance on macro? Plenty of ppl in my high-end PvE guild are using macros to make their rotation perfect. They said ZOS doesn’t care as long as you don’t use third-party softwares. But if you have macros built in your hardware, it’s totally ok. Is this true?

Actually, this is the original post and what is being discussed that I personally see.....of course I cant tell you what you see as being talked about here.

Earthewen

Sanctum74 wrote: »

If I’ve had a dismissive attitude it’s because the thread was originally about macros and then it got changed to a lag switch and now you’re talking about a cheat engine to be able to bypass the cool down. You guys have been all over the place with this obsession.

Maybe I’m naive because I play on console and haven’t seen any cheating in 7 years of daily play, but that doesn’t change the fact of what the original op was about. A macro can not bypass the cool down and it’s just not going to work reliably with lag and skill delay.

With that being said the desyncs started getting bad when they tried to fix the desyncs from block canceling which rarely happened and instead now almost every skill can cause a desync including seige. I just got done leveling up a stamplar and I can’t count how many times I was able to desync npc’s using nothing but jabs. The game is broke, that’s my opinion you are entitled to yours.

According to the logs, a macro bypasses everything. Unless you are trying to tell us that people can consistently cast in an 11 minute fight every 0.7 seconds without interruption or pauses and in the same exact rotation without fail. If that isn't a macro, is there another explanation? So far, nothing you have offered explains this phenomenon that is not unique to just one player. I am completely open to a logical/makes sense explanation.

furiouslog

Soul_Demon wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

If you both have such overwhelming evidence then report the players. If they are cheating then they’d be gone, if not then it’s just another witch hunt as usual.

I'm pretty sure that one is gone (and I know that it was an alt account for a player who is still around). I can't confirm that one way or the other. Others are not. This is what I was talking about in the prior post - how much proof does ZOS need to ban these people?

I don't know what threshold an exploitative player needs to pass before it's just obvious that something fishy is going on. I don't know what evidence ZOS needs, or what tools they have to help them diagnose cheating. I don't know how much work I'm supposed to do to support my claim. Your dismissive attitude towards the problem, which I'm filing under "L2P", demonstrates an unwillingness to even entertain the likelihood that there are cheaters who use macros in PVP, and just because ZOS elects not to ban the player does not mean that they are not cheating, it just means that there was not enough evidence to ban a player who is probably contributing to the bottom line.

You further dismiss that it's even possible to cheat, but when confronted with evidence, you provide no alternative explanation that rationalizes the logs, falling back on "if ZOS says it's cheating then I'll believe it". This is apathetic, and it just allows the problem to persist. But let's follow your train of thought.

The player from that log has been reported numerous times, by multiple players. They are not banned. Ergo, based on your logic, they are not cheating. Since, by that logic, it has been definitely determined that they are not cheating, please explain that log to me and how it's an intended and legal part of the game.

Yeah, might be on 3 day permanent suspension...but odds are they are right back after that to be honest....would not be the first time. As far as not knowing, that is by design. Think about it a second, ZOS uses the players in game to monitor other players for violations, requires YOU provide them with overwhelming and irrefutable proof of this, and then requires you report it to third party company who has financial interest in NOT reporting up to the business for looking incompetent to handle things. And the cherry on top is no naming and shaming in forums and refusal to tell you the outcome of anything......its the perfect set up to when nothing happens to keep anyone from noticing.

Although that thought has definitely crossed my mind, I choose to believe that ZOS has a positive intent in preserving the integrity of their game. However, you've hit on an issue that really upsets me, which is that the entirety of the botting and scripting sub community is essentially protected by all of the TOS policies ZOS put in place for any public communication. If I record someone using an exploit and post it on YouTube in order to try to draw attention to the problem, I can be banned from the forums or the game for violating the TOS, because I clearly did so within their legal definition.

Furthermore, if, hypothetically, someone were hypothetically running a discord server offering hypothetical subscriptions to memory editing bots that gave hypothetically unfair advantages in game, and I were to hypothetically report this discord server to ZOS, it would be my hypothetical expectation that something would be done to that hypothetical entity and the issue somehow responsively addressed in a patch. But if, hypothetically, nothing happened, hypothetically submitting more tickets would not do anything, I wouldn't be able to hypothetically post about it or otherwise talk about it in any public space due to TOS, and I still have to hypothetically live with it. All hypothetical, of course.

It's pretty frustrating, TBH. Some days I don't want to go into Cyro if I know certain people will be on there, deliberately hunting me and my pals with their crazy scripted streakfests.

Soul_Demon

furiouslog wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

If you both have such overwhelming evidence then report the players. If they are cheating then they’d be gone, if not then it’s just another witch hunt as usual.

I'm pretty sure that one is gone (and I know that it was an alt account for a player who is still around). I can't confirm that one way or the other. Others are not. This is what I was talking about in the prior post - how much proof does ZOS need to ban these people?

I don't know what threshold an exploitative player needs to pass before it's just obvious that something fishy is going on. I don't know what evidence ZOS needs, or what tools they have to help them diagnose cheating. I don't know how much work I'm supposed to do to support my claim. Your dismissive attitude towards the problem, which I'm filing under "L2P", demonstrates an unwillingness to even entertain the likelihood that there are cheaters who use macros in PVP, and just because ZOS elects not to ban the player does not mean that they are not cheating, it just means that there was not enough evidence to ban a player who is probably contributing to the bottom line.

You further dismiss that it's even possible to cheat, but when confronted with evidence, you provide no alternative explanation that rationalizes the logs, falling back on "if ZOS says it's cheating then I'll believe it". This is apathetic, and it just allows the problem to persist. But let's follow your train of thought.

The player from that log has been reported numerous times, by multiple players. They are not banned. Ergo, based on your logic, they are not cheating. Since, by that logic, it has been definitely determined that they are not cheating, please explain that log to me and how it's an intended and legal part of the game.

Yeah, might be on 3 day permanent suspension...but odds are they are right back after that to be honest....would not be the first time. As far as not knowing, that is by design. Think about it a second, ZOS uses the players in game to monitor other players for violations, requires YOU provide them with overwhelming and irrefutable proof of this, and then requires you report it to third party company who has financial interest in NOT reporting up to the business for looking incompetent to handle things. And the cherry on top is no naming and shaming in forums and refusal to tell you the outcome of anything......its the perfect set up to when nothing happens to keep anyone from noticing.

Although that thought has definitely crossed my mind, I choose to believe that ZOS has a positive intent in preserving the integrity of their game. However, you've hit on an issue that really upsets me, which is that the entirety of the botting and scripting sub community is essentially protected by all of the TOS policies ZOS put in place for any public communication. If I record someone using an exploit and post it on YouTube in order to try to draw attention to the problem, I can be banned from the forums or the game for violating the TOS, because I clearly did so within their legal definition.

Furthermore, if, hypothetically, someone were hypothetically running a discord server offering hypothetical subscriptions to memory editing bots that gave hypothetically unfair advantages in game, and I were to hypothetically report this discord server to ZOS, it would be my hypothetical expectation that something would be done to that hypothetical entity and the issue somehow responsively addressed in a patch. But if, hypothetically, nothing happened, hypothetically submitting more tickets would not do anything, I wouldn't be able to hypothetically post about it or otherwise talk about it in any public space due to TOS, and I still have to hypothetically live with it. All hypothetical, of course.

It's pretty frustrating, TBH. Some days I don't want to go into Cyro if I know certain people will be on there, deliberately hunting me and my pals with their crazy scripted streakfests.

100% man.....I get it. Furthermore the last time I think a "Z" tag was seen in cyro was 2014. Not really the feel good that the players really need to keep working for ZOS for free, ya know? The logs are right there for them too---at any point they could go to them and see for themselves.....just not seeing it myself, but admire you giving the benefit of the doubt to them at this point.

Goregrinder

Sanctum74 wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Macros can’t bypass the global cool down, they don’t make sounds, and they can’t change their input delay on the fly to account for lag and skill delay.

I can see them being effective in low lag pve, but in pvp they would not be reliable and would greatly affect the ability to react putting the user at a great disadvantage.

I have plenty of evidence to the contrary, as previously mentioned. You are speculating. Provide data to support your position.

The evidence you provided proves my point. Skill cool downs are server side so it’s impossible to get that many abilities off in 3 seconds. You were clearly desynced, hurricane is very common for doing this.

You also mention attacks being automatically blocked or roll dodged. A macro can’t react it can only do what it’s programmed to. Sounds like you’re just playing against better players and/or they have better internet.

Yup, plus when you bow gank generally you're only spamming snipe if you're more than 28m away. If you're within 28m, you're going to burst combo by doing Sniper >LA> Silver shard, or Snipe > LA > Poison inject, etc. The abilities don't quite land at the same time like they used to but if a player gets dsync, they certainly will look like it was one single giant hit, when it was actually 3, maybe even 4.

karekiz

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Could anyone provide footage of actual macro use? There's so many people presuming use of macros (especially in PvP) while others claim mocros don't even work in ESO. (Myself included)

Why the hell would you post a video of yourself using bannable software?

IIRC they had to nerf an addon called Miats (I don't PvP so I don't know full extent) because of some shady abilities of it.

You can easily just Youtube "ESO Bot program" and see various scripts running. If you think the only thing someone can make is killing bears over and over because the game "is too complex" or "Has lag (What MMO doesn't?)" - thats on you.

Earthewen

Goregrinder wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

furiouslog wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Macros can’t bypass the global cool down, they don’t make sounds, and they can’t change their input delay on the fly to account for lag and skill delay.

I can see them being effective in low lag pve, but in pvp they would not be reliable and would greatly affect the ability to react putting the user at a great disadvantage.

I have plenty of evidence to the contrary, as previously mentioned. You are speculating. Provide data to support your position.

The evidence you provided proves my point. Skill cool downs are server side so it’s impossible to get that many abilities off in 3 seconds. You were clearly desynced, hurricane is very common for doing this.

You also mention attacks being automatically blocked or roll dodged. A macro can’t react it can only do what it’s programmed to. Sounds like you’re just playing against better players and/or they have better internet.

Yup, plus when you bow gank generally you're only spamming snipe if you're more than 28m away. If you're within 28m, you're going to burst combo by doing Sniper >LA> Silver shard, or Snipe > LA > Poison inject, etc. The abilities don't quite land at the same time like they used to but if a player gets dsync, they certainly will look like it was one single giant hit, when it was actually 3, maybe even 4.

Believe it or not, I actually know that dysncs and lag can make it look like people are macroing even if they aren't. However, that is why I am relying totally on the logs now to verify information. I don't want to accuse anyone without properly doing my own digging. Unfortunately, there are a lot more people doing it than will 1. ever admit it, and 2. ever be observable on the screen. I would encourage folks to take an honest look at the logs. Since those come from the game itself, I doubt very much those are in error.

Sanctum74

Earthewen wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

If I’ve had a dismissive attitude it’s because the thread was originally about macros and then it got changed to a lag switch and now you’re talking about a cheat engine to be able to bypass the cool down. You guys have been all over the place with this obsession.

Maybe I’m naive because I play on console and haven’t seen any cheating in 7 years of daily play, but that doesn’t change the fact of what the original op was about. A macro can not bypass the cool down and it’s just not going to work reliably with lag and skill delay.

With that being said the desyncs started getting bad when they tried to fix the desyncs from block canceling which rarely happened and instead now almost every skill can cause a desync including seige. I just got done leveling up a stamplar and I can’t count how many times I was able to desync npc’s using nothing but jabs. The game is broke, that’s my opinion you are entitled to yours.

According to the logs, a macro bypasses everything. Unless you are trying to tell us that people can consistently cast in an 11 minute fight every 0.7 seconds without interruption or pauses and in the same exact rotation without fail. If that isn't a macro, is there another explanation? So far, nothing you have offered explains this phenomenon that is not unique to just one player. I am completely open to a logical/makes sense explanation.

The log just shows the data sent which just like character positioning could be wrong. A log doesn’t tell you it’s a macro, that’s just making an assumption.

So if we assume the log is right then it would have to be a cheat engine to bypass the cool down, I guess they could be using a macro with a cheat engine or it’s built right into it.

Regardless a macro can only send a few skill commands with a programmable delay between inputs. If there is lag and skill delay the macro can not change the delay on the fly so you might only get 1 or 2 skills to go off which would ruin the rotation and any competent player would be better off without one.

With that being said sounds like you could be talking about a cheat engine IF the logs are true, but only Zos has the real data to prove anything, beyond that it’s just assumptions.

LashanW

Earthewen wrote: »

According to the logs, a macro bypasses everything. Unless you are trying to tell us that people can consistently cast in an 11 minute fight every 0.7 seconds without interruption or pauses and in the same exact rotation without fail. If that isn't a macro, is there another explanation? So far, nothing you have offered explains this phenomenon that is not unique to just one player. I am completely open to a logical/makes sense explanation.

What was he casting every 0.7 seconds?
GCD for skills is 1 second. For light attacks it's 700ms. For heavies it depends on weapon. I've seen sorcs spamming light attacks after activating overload.